mezzanine

It would come down to a show-down between these two watches: ...and in the end, after a length drumroll....... The winner would be....!

No worries... I understand what you're saying about wanting only the best reps. That's been my idea in collecting reps, and I've owned most of the best reps over the last year and only settled on around 6 watches recently. I think you're going to be satisfied with this watch, no question...and obviously you're dealing with a reputable person. Some watches are made close enough to 1:1 to accept genuine parts, and that is key. You won't go wrong if you can start with a good movement and case, and then plug as many genuine parts into the rest of the watch as possible. It's not just the fact that the gen parts make the watch look better, rather that they're also capable of being re-sold at a later point. I understand your reasoning, and in this case I think you'll be happy, but in general be careful. What I mean is that you have to apply an entirely different way of valuing these reps. You're sort of stuck in the middle I think. There's a high rate of diminishing value over $500 in any rep. I wouldn't personally own the reps I own that are worth more than that if most of their value wasn't contained in gen parts. Certain models of panerai are best from certain dealers. For example, I've heard few good arguments that there are significantly better alternatives for a Fiddy than davidsen. For a 112? That becomes more questionable. For a base model like the 112, if I were in your position, and if I were a big Panerai fan and had $1000 to spend, I would do this: Davidsen Pam 112 Davidsen Pam 127 And another Davidsen of your own choosing... Or I would go: Davidsen 112 The MBW red sub on the f/s board And a ceramic bezel HBB.

The vintage GMT is very nice.... There have been some nice pieces in this thread! The wrist checks are still the lifeblood of the forum...

Very nicely done... Here's what's been glued to my wrist for quite some time...

Serious question about this watch- I understand the value of the Jimmy parts, but what's the rep-to-gen price ratio on this one? I'm of the mind that these very expensive reps are warranted depending on the value of the gen. My understanding about the market price of a used gen 112 is that it's not excessively expensive- meaning around $4000 (?). That being said, if it would come with the strap, then you have to give pause. If that's correct, then my belief about the value of the rep is diminished somewhat. As a reference, I've got a couple of Rolex reps that would be similarly priced ( at least). The thing is, the price of the gens are around $7k and $13k, and the value of the watch is largely composed of gen parts that are re-salable on the gen market. Outside of this market, the value of the 112 in question is limited, however impressive it looks. I'm not sure what the Jimmy parts fetch on Ebay or whatever, but unless there is a sure-fire likelihood of being able to get good value for them in an outside market, I'd hesitate. For example, if you were talking about getting one of highly modded vintage pieces on the sales board, I would applaud your judgment. Even if it was a Fiddy, where you could at least be in a rep-to-gen price ratio that would make more sense. Also, it sounds as though you'd be dealing with someone reputable, but I was offered a similar watch on the darkside (RWI) and was ripped off for $600+ recently, so be careful about who you're dealing with. You're going to be pleased enough with the DSN. If you're new to the rep world, don't jump the gun so quickly on going for the absolute best. His watch is a pretty good taste, and if you really find it insufficient, then I think going for the more exotic solutions is a potential alternative... If you're coming from the gen world, there are certain reps that have unique characteristics, such as the ability to accept genuine parts. These are the watches I would look at more closely. It's a good bridge from the experience of being a gen owner, and there could be some possibilities that you'd never considered due to the cost of owning the gens- such as some of the vintage Rolex reps. If you're exclusively a panerai fan, then I would hang around and do more research. Spend a few days combing over the forum and researching the spectrum of options- it sounds like you've already done some research, but my impression is that it's more based on the valuations of others, rather than your own understanding.

Ya gotta admit, it's pretty funny that you would go and rip on my watch that is for sale with a Greg Steven's Crazy Horse (new) and a lot of similarities to this watch in principle (serviced asian, palp crown, professional SL). I mean, hey, it's an awesome watch. Why someone would spend this much on the rep instead of just buying the gen doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Ptolomeo, when I opened up that picture my first response was to think "look at that font spacing, I could damn well get out my red pen and start going to work!"... That's how much I love that dial of yours... Awesome.

Oh man....this watch is ridiculous. I have to hold back the desire to get a red 1680 sub- these pics do not help in the least...

I typically wouldn't wear a watch to the gym, but if I had to, it would be my 1680, as it is the lightest and least conspicuous of my watches, as far as getting in the way during sets.

Yup, moneygram is by far the best and easiest way to send payment, IMO.

TeeJay, I agree with your most of your points. Interestingly, some of these themes seem to have come up in the thread that The Zigmeister just made, talking about some of the abuses of his service that have caused him to have to scale back and be more selective. I think one of the big distinctions is between dealers and 'sellers'. I have found as a somewhat active 'seller', that the expectation is actually higher than it is if it were a dealer/buyer transaction. It's part of a dealer's business model and the set of expectations they're required to meet to have to deal with problems and with communication with all of their buyers. But what I'm wondering, is whether my own 'snap-shot' of experience as a 'seller' may give me enough of a glimpse into what they might experience to wonder whether they couldn't tell some horror stories that would curl your toes... The post that The Zigmeister just made would seem to support that conclusion. I think it's a by-product of the internet as a means of doing commerce. It's totally impersonal, so people lose any sense of self-awareness or social sense of discretion when it comes to respecting other people's time and energy. The issue of a buyer's rights, when it comes down to their anxiety about having money 'in transit' is central to the discussion. I'm not going to say much, and I am only talking here in generalities, but I have had the experience of a buyer who was anxious about their watch arriving quickly say that they were uncomfortable that with their package is floating in the 'ether'. They lose the cognitive ability to understand that there isn't anything wrong, just because they can't see the package in transit.

Yikes...that story about the person with over 135 emails is grossly inappropriate. I think this thread is well-timed, and not just because it's The Zigmeister who is bringing it to attention. There's something that has happened to us culturally as a whole with the advent of electronic communication- and I don't think it's all for the good. I was talking in another thread about some of the challenges in doing business via the internet as a medium. In some ways it's a tremendous benefit because of the openness of the market, and at the same time, people price-fixate in this type of environment, and they also have almost zero ability to delay gratification. I'll only deal with established members, if at all possible, for this reason.

I skipped right past this the first time I saw it posted, but now that I paused for a second look, it may have caught my imagination. I think that the new frontier in reps is this kind of watch- a lesser known high end gen brand that has a high degree of detail and finish. I actually believe this is the best way for the rep makers to go, as some of the technical details of these watches are truly impressive if replicated properly. I may buy this one, but probably not for around 6 months or so....

Freddy, if you're ever going to one of the watch get-togethers, let me know- cause I have to see your collection at some point in person. Awesome.

I think people probably get a great deal buying a rep from me from as a member... I buy most of my reps from other members. Most of these reps recently have come to me with unadvertised problems that the sellers were aware of, but chose not to mention in their sales listing because it would effect the sale-ability of the watch. So then I am in the position of either having to fix or fully disclose upon my own sale of the watch, the problems that were not communicated when I purchased. Honestly- the last three or four watches I've bought have fallen into this category- with the exception of the modded rollies. That's part of why I'm narrowing down my collection and trying to get out of the hobby, in terms of the buying-and-selling aspect of trying new watches. I'll still be a watch enthusiast here, just not one who is doing a lot of transacting, as this is a shady world in terms of some of the stuff that goes on with these reps. If I buy more watches in the future, it will be from members here that I trust.

I know that I'm going to come across as a jerk, but I can't get over some of the attitude of some folks when it comes to buying a rep. When you're working with a dealer, that's one thing, cause I guess they're incentivized to deal with the neuroticism of folks who need to check the tracking number 20 times per day. Don't try to make it out to be about anything other than your own inability to defer gratification. It has nothing to do with a lack of professionalism on the part of the dealer, unless they express their distaste for that type of sales transaction like it sounds like happened in this case. This is a hot issue for some folks who have had to do more in the way of watch transactions than what it sounds like the scope of this thread intends. It drives me nuts. Here's a question: Is it a dealer (or seller's) job to walk a RWG'er through a transaction with the expectation that they are to be at the beckon call of neurotic buyers who need to know the hourly update on their tracking information? Is that part of the responsibility of the seller? Cause I think it's ridiculous, and it's why I would rather deal with an established forum member if at all possible, who isn't wound up tighter than a coiled spring at the idea of having a few hundred dollars in transit.

Very interesting point about how the applications of aesthetic ideals of one domain, and the problems created when you try to cross-over into a world governed by different aesthetic principles. I agree that it's more of an engineering and sculpture driven aesthetic than a colour-based, visual expression of art.

Thanks all- I missed the question about the tropic on the SD before- it's a flat-top T-39, but I've been playing with the idea of switching it out to a superdome that I have that is wasting away on a DRSD. The choice between the red and white submariner was tough. If I hadn't got a 1680 with a gen dial, it would probably have been a red dialed sub, similar to Ptolomeo's, in the sense that I would've used a re-dial rather than the MBW stock dial. I've decided since both of my whites are approximately the same age as me (the SD is transitional and the sub is 'very' close to being one based on dial age), I'm going to wait till I can afford a gen red 1680 sub and a DRSD, and then I'll buy those two to match the pair I've already got... I don't expect that's going to be happening for close to ten years, but I thought it was a neat idea..

You're going to be very pleased, maciek- When I received my MBW AP ROO, I was under the same uncertain preconception about whether it was significantly different than the chinese version. I'd thought that the only difference was the cyclops on the dial. I was quite happy to open up the package and see a watch of rare quality, one that I could only really see coming from MBK. We've got similar taste in having a passion for the Gerald Genta styled sports chronos- you should definitely get a HBB with a polished ceramic bezel. I'd even consider the rose gold, even though I generally don't like gold, and find that often in these situations my friends will cause me to believe I've been 'microcosmed' on the internet into wearing gold...but the rose gold is something different, and these later production HBB's are of higher quality.

Awesome Freddy, and thanks for the nice comment on my wrist shot....I can't believe how such a simple watch could capture my imagination.

Exactly, it's all about the spirit of problem solving, which I've come to believe is the most organic and authentic remnant of the spirit of the mechanical watch. I don't think in any other hobby, enthusiasts come as close to that intimate association with some of these problems. Very curious and hopeful that your ingenuity is rewarded- let me know if there's anything I can do to help facilitate, should there be anything that I can do to make things happen...

Exactly, it's all about the spirit of problem solving, which I've come to believe is the most organic and authentic remnant of the spirit of the mechanical watch. I don't think in any other hobby, enthusiasts come as close to that intimate association with some of these problems.

I thought I'd update the review with some additional pics: