mezzanine

Usually the new year brings some new releases. There has been an absense of cool new watches to come out recently. I wonder if the Chopard with the special crystal will be impressive, once it's released...? Other than that- I'm not convinced that we're going to see a year similar to '07.

Damn...you're killing me with some of these parts you're able to get, Oli. I don't know if anyone can get what you get.

I was thinking that my collection centers around two 'pairs' of watches. The first is a pair of sports chronographs that I would argue are related in design- originally deriving from Gerald Genta. I love Genta's designs, especially the AP ROO. I feel like the Hublot Big Bang ceramic is the modern update of that originally classic design. Together, they make up my pair of sports chronographs...my first love in watches. The two watches in the center are the MBK AP ROO with a crystal that will soon be AR coated, and the ceramic HBB. The second is the pair of MBK modded rollies: Check out and see if you can read the dial printing in the crystal rehaut- I only noticed that you can see it reflected in that pic recently. Between the two pairs, my wrist time is largely taken up. If I'm in the mood for a lighter, daily beater type of watch, I'll usually reach for one of the vintage rollies. If I'm feeling a little more ambitious, or there is an occasion or ensemble that would compliment it, the chronos are the choice. I was going to keep my SFSO, but then I was thinking "when am I going to wear it instead of my two rollies?". The SFSO is a great rep, maybe even up there as the top of '07 among those that don't like the HBB , but that doesn't mean that the modded MBK vintage rolex watches aren't better than both when they're done right....just think, you can make the best rep of '05/06/07 at any given time, should you so choose. A nice way to deal with the drop in release of good new watches. Most of the best watches of the year were released in the first quarter of the year.

Believe it or not, if it was replicated correctly with carbon fibre (very unlikely), I would be all over it. I really like it.

That caseback does look pretty good. TeeJay, I hear what you're saying- I used the wrong terminology, function is probably the worst word I could use, as it implies a mechanical basis to derive it's meaning. I'd meant 'function' in the sense of appearing like a genuine rollie, in terms of serving as a watch functionally without aesthetically giving off any clues as to it's lack of similarity to the original. In terms of rep-function, that might be a higher ideal than mechanical fidelity. There would definitely seem as though there's some ambiguity about who is responsible for the false-advertising of the wanna-be-MBK watches. Hey, if that caseback is as good as it looks, I've got no qualms with going with some non-MBK parts, if it could conceivably improve my 1665.

Vegetarians, avert your eyes...I was out tonight for dinner and snapped a couple of wristies:

I hope that the guy who runs MBK is conscious of this potential conflict of interest and avoids selling any 'lots' of watches to the cartel dealers, as he did with Josh recently with the vintage rollies. When that happens, it creates a perception of ambiguity in the minds of the average buyer. "They've got them sometimes..." kinda thing. The issue about the false marketing and copying of MBK watches is one that should be addressed. We're supposed to be 'protecting' the rep buyer from this type of stuff, IMO.

Who said they were genuine Rolex? It could be that our meanings of the terms 'function' are different. My point was quite simple: I have a 'vintage 1680' that I paid 10-15% of what I've seen them going for with papers to own. This watch appears every bit the part of the 'real' watch, and as well it should, as almost all of the aesthetically significant parts are genuine. I have no delusion about the actual 'authenticity' of the watch. However, if you look at the relative rep/gen price ratio, they're not a whole lot different than many other reps to own. A movement might be what makes a watch to you, not necessarily to me if I'm a rep enthusiast. For me, it might the appearance of the watch. Considering you couldn't spot my movement as 'fake' without cracking the caseback, what do I really care if you don't think it's real? This is a rep forum, right? Damn if it isn't a lot of fun to actually build and source parts for your own watch, and have the ability to use a case that accepts genuine parts to do so. Personally, I think it's one of the cooler things we have at our disposal. Your car example is off in left field somewhere....

Jon, you're right that there's been some problems with the use of the name 'MBW' as it no longer signifies what it originally did. The essential feature of a 'MBW' is that is from MBK. It has nothing to do with the ability of their watches to accept gen parts- as I believe some do, and some don't. The vintage rollies that do are popularized here on the forums, but there are some modern rollies, some Pateks, some AP's, and others that they carry. What's happening with the cartel seems to be a case of imitation. Other than him securing some vintage rollies to sell briefly, he does not sell actual 'MBK' watches. There have been copies made of some of the MBK watches- the EoD comes to mind. I think it's possible that a dealer could possibly source a few MBK's independently, and then sell them on their site to encourage the notion that perhaps some of their other watches that are similarly could be legit as well.

It sounds as though that tequila is dangerous! I think you might have to keep that bottle on lockdown or else you might have to tie a string to it so that you can find it in a hurry at all times.. When I heard about the books being discussed, the one that was decided on sounded so intriguing to me that I may end up picking it up at some point myself! It's a testament to your impact on the community, as well as the community itself, how quickly and naturally the thank-you gesture came together... No matter whether you post or not in the future, we're all very grateful for what you've done. I doubt there are many other venues where someone with your knowledge could have educated so many enthusiasts...the rep hobby is interesting exactly because of the empirical experimentation that is required. There's a different level of creativity involved in working on these reps. That diversity of experience has resulted in a watchsmith with a very unique skill set. I don't think there's anyone in the world with The Zigmeister's ability to do vintage lume, and perhaps lume in general. Doing a hundred or so vintage rolex dials will do that for you, I guess. There is a group of people all around the world (quite possibly the rep movement makers, most importantly) that have been turned on to mechanical watches under the tutelage of the legendary The Zigmeister, and that's the ultimate reward. You've been the litmus test, the only one with the knowledge to be able to reveal what's happening inside our watches...and in a sometimes shady rep universe, that is invaluable.

It's still a useful and necessary post, though. The MBK's are no joke. I was a skeptic, felt they were overvalued, but in the end I ended up with a few of them in my permanent collection on the basis of this quality. I don't even like the modern rollies...but damn if I don't love the vintages...if a watch has everything gen other than the case/movement, it's functionally and aesthetically a genuine rolex- and if you add a datewheel, even the movement is not questionable unless you crack the caseback. http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=64717

Check out this thread here: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=64717 I give a review of two of my fully modded MBW's. Honestly, MBW's are the one niche in the replica world where you really can't cut costs that much and come out with a good looking watch. If I were you, I would purchase a used MBW 1665 from the f/s board. Then I would order a gen flat-top T39, I would age the dial, replace the insert with a good aftermarket (gens are hard to find and expensive, although IMO they are one of the most critical features), and you'd be pretty much ready to go. If you're into modding, you could drill the lug holes and replace them with gen springbars. You could do that for under $500 and be 90% of the way there. It really depends on what your goals are.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you're not happy with the current generation of available super-reps, you can always go digging for some of the better, older, ETA based models. That's what I've done. I had the vibe that there wasn't a lot going on in the rep world, as far as cool new releases, so I decided to explore some of the models that have been around for a while and are of high quality. For example, the MBW rollies are pretty timeless. If you don't have one, then you could consider buying/modding one. Also, keep an eye out for some of the better older reps, like the 007 SMP, etc...

The MBW's get their name and are identified by their source. They are only available from a single source in Thailand. The MBW's are only a significant 'category' of watches for those that are interested in modding them with genuine parts. Especially the vintages- the premium one pays for the modern is of questionable value, IMO. I'm intrigued by the introduction of an asian MBW. It's a way to shave a hundred bucks or so off of the cost. Ironically, of the variety of parts in a MBW, it's pretty much only the movement and case that most people really use... There's a bit of an oxymoron in the original post, as the poster talks about how he wants a cheap watch that will accept gen parts. Well, genuine rolex parts aren't exactly cheap, so the chances are that if you're trying to save on the watch itself, you're going to be in for some sticker shock once you ge an idea of how much gen parts cost. Personally, I'd just get a silix 1680- the MBW's are only good values if you plan on using them as a base to mod with genuine parts. If you're going to get a MBW with the intention of modding it, understand that you're going to be in for some serious $$...

It'll be interesting to see if these accept genuine parts. Assuming they do, then even if it's of a lesser quality than the MBW's, practically, it will be the same. It all comes down to the ability to accept genuine parts. I think they'll have a successful product if they're functionally similar to the MBW's.

There's about a $50 price difference. I think the whole ETA movement thing, with regard to the steelfish, got blown out of proportion. Now we're lucky to have ETA movements? I didn't like that marketing angle, personally. Have you owned a HBB? Because I rarely see someone who has owned it say that they were unimpressed, although, you wonder whether that's self-selecting, cause that watch isn't really one you buy if you're "on the fence" with it...but I've handled and worn almost every watch on the list I posted, and the HBB is definitely worthy of consideration at the top. I think the MBK AP ROO I have is without question worthy of consideration, and to disqualify it against any competitor almost requires an explanation, because there are few dimensions along which I don't feel it's superior. It's got the best dial I've seen on a rep. It actually changes colour under different lighting, from blue to grey (no joke!), and if you look at the dial under a loupe, the level of detail is unprecedented in comparison to anything I've seen. The build quality of the case and bracelet is exceptional. The Cousteau gets underrated, the MBK Patek Nautilus gets underrated...geez, if the BlackBird had a decent pearl, that would be a very underrated watch. That asian movement has 35 jewels.

Not only that, but you can pick up a used SFSO for around $1200 if you're patient...and I don't even really the cheaper source of Silix as being really significant to the value of the watch in the market, I'd still put it at $300...but that's just based on my experience. The Cousteau Divers doesn't get enough respect, IMO. The SS HBB that TWP is now offering for around $350, if I remember, is probably one of the better deals going in the rep world... Also, most of us have more $$ in these watches than we might realize. I discovered that recently, and decided to shave my collection down to five watches. They're five of the top reps available, and they cost me around the same price as the new SFSO in some countries. Yikes...the idea of trading my watches, one of which is a chrono that's been serviced, the other that has a gen bezel worth $800, and the others that have been modded with gen parts to the tune of $1500, for a single gen based on a standard ETA, isn't a great value for a young fella like myself who loves watches.

Thanks Tribal for clearing that up for me...I came pretty close! Could've got a pretty good deal on a gen one....but it makes sense, because this was for a re-designed case (the modern one) I think... Anyways- much appreciated...

Will a genuine triple '6' bezel fit on a MBK 1665 watch? I don't believe so, but figured I'd check, as I have a triple '6' dial on my 1665, and wondered about an authentic bezel.

I'm sure more knowledgable people will chime in, but my understanding is that "GoogleAds" controls the advertising associated with the banners of this site. If you're referring to the companies you see as promotions of that nature, RWG is not responsible or associated with those vendors. Admittedly, I wonder whether if it isn't possible for the admins to contact GoogleAds or report some of these questionable advertisements...my limited understanding is that they'll restrict the advertising to other associated sites.

Interesting secondary question: How many out there have samped most of the watches that should be in the running? I'm talking about: SFSO Cousteau Divers HBB SS or ceramic MBK Patek Nautilus MBK AP ROO uPO IWC 3717 Breitling Blackbird Tag Link Chrono DSN Pams- 112, 127, etc.. Rolex SSD Breitling Evo Chopard GTXL This is the list of potential candidates.

Exactly true, but that's true of the Breitling's too. I was surprised, a lot of people are aware of high quality reps. At the end of the day, all of our watches (here) are reps- that's the point, but in terms of degree of believability, relative to price, I believe there are equally convincing examples within the Rolex line. Interestingly enough, I haven't had anyone ask me question whether either of the rollies were gen yet, but have had a few people notice it. Admittedly, one of them was a shocked, "whoa, is that real?" that was more rhetorical, because I think he was convinced already that it was...so it more exclaimative. I believe it's possible for both non-watch people, who know nothing other than the name, and more knowledgable folks to be convinced alike. I'm not saying that's the goal, I'm just saying that there's a presence with some of these watches, when fully modded (ie: including gen dial, etc..) are convincing pieces in their own right. The whole point is that, yes, the Rolex is still a rep. But, unless I tell you it's not, if you're a newb or if you're a familiar with Rolex vintage watches, you're going to be impressed. The vintages just aren't as likely to be repped in the mainstream world's expectation.

At least in the case of the HBB, they couldn't realistically rep the bracelet for a reasonable price . I don't know why a watch like this wouldn't come with that option, but maybe it will be like the Carrera? Didn't that come out initially only on rubber?