chrgod

This is the later version of the PO-chrono replica. The subdial position has been moved inwards, closer to the gen. A very nice watch. The date wheel is sunken on this replica, compared to the gen. This is usual on all the 7750-based replicas where the subdials are moved to a 3-6-9 setup. The pearl in the triangle at 12 is also lower than the gen. Nevertheless a cool watch.

Impressive answer. I learn something every day.

Looks gen to me..The caseback engravings are deeper and better exceuted than on the replicas.

It is bedtime in Europe.. Will work on with this tomorrow.

(Information is based on various sources from the Internet. List of references at the end) HISTORY OF PILOT WATCHES The IWC 3522, better known as the Mark XVI, is the current pinnacle of a long line of pilot watches from IWC. The line of Pilot watches is one of the major assets of IWC, and aviation has been linked with the brand almost since the dawn of commercial aviation. The link between aviation, timekeeping and watchmaking is deep. Aviation is dependent upon navigation, which again is dependent upon accurate timekeeping. Just as the Marine Chronometers made their impact on trade and communication in the 18th century, accurate timekeeping in Aviation was crucial to the success of aviation. IWCs connection with pilots started some years before the world was trown out into WW2. Aviation brought many new challenges for watchmakers to tackle. With the higher altitudes came a slew of new advances to compensate for the new extreme conditions. Shatterproof glass, a rotating bezel, luminescent features and antimagnetic movement were all developed to meet the aviators requirements and the effects of this new environment. According to most sources, watches were not issued as a standard procedure. The “official” military watches were simple pieces with basic dials and they were not chronographs. Usually, separate stopwatches were brought along for navigational duties on the bombers. In addition, there usually was a watch installed in the cockpit. Opposite of what most people imagine, chronometre accuraccy over long time was not important, as the watches were syncronized prior to every mission, which seldom lasted more than a couple of hours. The opposite was the case for Ship Chronometers. So, the true historical use of the "Pilot watch" is pretty down to earth. The primary purpose for many of these watches was to provide aircrews with something to determine time and have a backup since many people either did not own a watch or, if they did, it was not up to a standard timekeeping specification. As general watch engineering progressed, most regular quality watches fulfilled basic requirements of a pilot watch. The hacking feature, required to synchronize time along crewmembers, and easy readability of the dial were the only main “Pilot watch” requirements. For the Americans and the Army Air Corps, the A-11 was the watch. The A-11 was a production standard used by a number of watch companies from 1943. It was produced by Elgin, Bulova and Waltham, with numerous case and minor dial/hands variations. There were even silver-cased watches, as nickel was considered a metal more critical for the war effort!. Some design aspects were largely universal: Black dial; white hands; a handwound hacking movement with center second hand, hour numbers from 1 to 12; a second scale with smaller minute/second numbers in increments of 10 on the outside edge of the dial; and same-type minute and hour hands. Several A-11 versions featured a characteristic coin-edge bezel and caseback. Some were dustproof, others were waterproof. IWCs first Pilot watches were made from Pocket watch movements strapped onto the wrist. While the British and allied pilots used mainly plain smallish wristwatches, the Luftwaffe crew used big watches. IWC was along the official suppliers, with the current "Big Pilot" cashing in on this heritage. WW2 German Pilot watch, made to RLM (ReichLuftMinisterium) specification and similar watches for the Allies. A-11 type watch and a Waltham, issued for ground troops. 55mm Nazi-watch versus 30mm for the good guys. Fritz had bad eyesight. Following the war. The Pilot watch development branched into different cathegories. The Breitling Navitimer hit the market in 1952. Breitling combined the slide rule with the chronograph, this calculating bezel was their main innovation to the Pilot watch. The fourth hand, GMT was another feature which found use in the Aviation world, as intercontinental flights became common. Rolex GMT-Master with their link to Pan Am, might be the best known of these. Some watches used 24-hours movements, Glycine Airman and the “Gruen Pan Am” are some examples of this kind of aviator watch. THE IWC HERITAGE The first “Mark Series” of the IWC line was The Mark 11, launched in 1948. It was built according to specifications stipulated by Great Britain’s Royal Air Force. These specifications called for a quality timepiece and while the This watch’s claim to fame was its innovative protection against magnetic fields, a feature that was becoming increasingly important as aircraft had started carrying greater amounts of instrumentation and their cockpits were becoming increasingly “electrified.” The Mark 11’s predecessors were equipped with antimagnetic escapements that could withstand moderately strong magnetic fields, but the Mark 11 was the first pilots’ watch to include an additional inner case made of soft iron. This clever addition has been standard issue in all subsequent IWC Pilot’s Watches. The Mark 11 was built from 1948 until 1984 Not until 1994 did IWC unveil the Mark XII as a successor to the Mark 11,. (The postwar Royal Air Force gave Arabic numbers to all of its official items, which is why the Mark 11 uses an Arabic number rather than a Roman one in its name.) Interestingly, the watches built to the RAF spec are highly coveted collector items, while the US-issued watches are rather inexpensive. Those watches were simply a batch specified bunch of timepieces used by the US Military -- usually for all branches. The evolution of the basic Pilots watch from IWC. The Mark XII had a date display and a self-winding movement from Jaeger-LeCoultre. This watch was made until 1999, when it was succeeded by the Mark XV. (The reason for the two-integer gap between the numbers XII and XV has to do with superstitions: whether it’s written as “13” or “XIII,” the number 13 is considered unlucky in the U.S. and Europe; the number 14 is shunned for similar reasons in Asia.) The mark XII had a hand-wound movement. The Mark XV-movement is based on the ETA 2892, also the case was slightly increased. IWC updated its entire collection of Pilot’s Watches in 2006 to give them a unified, streamlined look. Every watch in the “family now features the same style of hands and the same typography for its numerals. The rhombic hands, which give these watches a highly functional appearance, trace their ancestry back to the Big Pilot’s Watch of 1940. Many people thought at the time that the Mark XV were more true to the design of the original Mark XII. As a footnote, it can be mentioned that Rolex after the war issued a range of "Air-XX" watches, in spirit of the Rolex watches which were unissued, but widely used by military aviators on both sides of the war. This series used names like "Air-Lion", "Air-Giant" and.. "Air-king"! So, the "Rolex Air-King" is a Pilot watch, just like the coveted IWC. :-) The Mark XVI Shamelessly posting the information from the catalogue: EVOLUTION OF THE REPLICA Back in 2005, the only truly good IWC replica was the GST Titanium Chrnonograph (maybe the first of the “super reps”). A good replica of the Big Pilot seemed like an unobtainable dream, along with the grail of a correct modern Sea-Dweller… There was some Mark XV-replicas, with wrong caseback, no AR and thick ETA 2836-movement. Five years later, the replica scene was filled with good Big Pilots, great Aquatimer, Portoguese and Portofino chronographs and the 3717 Pilot chronograph as one of the Big stars of the replica stage! With several good IWC reps available, there was still lack of truly good replicas of the simple non-chrono watches… The call for a good Mark XVI-replica spun of one of the longest threads in the RWG-history.. I did not have any feelings for the Mark XVI, finding it a big dull. However after about 20 chronograph replicas, and starting in a new job with stricter dress code, I was looking for a nice, basic watch. Earlier this year, a decent replica surfaced whithout making much fuzz. I bought one and liked the style. However it did not fill my need for perfection.. The Asian 2892-movement made their way into what looked like good Portofino-replicas, but there were no Mark XVI-replica using this.. One week after I had received my watch, the new replica was previewed on Puretime… It was a long wait, but well worth. ¨ This looks rather good, doesn't it? Slim side profile, courtesy of the thin movement. A true pilots watch, which slides undes the shirt cuff of the Flight Captains uniform. Lume shot, enhanced. I like the "crosshair" effect, another tribute to Aviation... First impression is very good. The thinner Asian 2892-movement makes for a slim watch, like the gen. The dial has a very bright white text and date font. Hands are close to correct length and size. Only the markers at 12, 3, 6& 9 is lumed, as per gen. The crown has internal threads, as per gen. Crown is well made, low and close to gen. Caseback has well made engravings. Maybe a bit shallover than gen. Single-sided Colorless AR. Similar to the rep PAM 359. Dimensions: Case: 39mm Thickness: 11mm Strap size: 20mm "Probus Scafusia" for IWC.. "Probus Guhangzhusia" for the replica.. Crown and close-up of the serial number and "Fliegeruhr" engravings. MOVEMENT. When opening the caseback, I was first surprised by the lack of the Antimagnetic cover.. This is not visible, but has been standard on high-end replicas like the Ingenieur, Milgauss and 3717 for some years.. But then I was stuck that the movement is better finished than on the pictures in PTs shop.. It has a very nice rose-polish, with engravings on the rotor, serial number on the baseplate and even ETA 2892A2 engravings.. The IWC-calibre is based on the ETA2892, so this Asian version is interesting. The ETA2892 is also used for the Omega Seamaster Professional and in many Breitlings, so we might well see more replicas with this movement. Picture from a WatchTime review of the 3255. The 2892 movement does not fill the case of the Mark XVI. Had this been 25 years ago, the watch case would have been 35mm diameter, rather than the current 39mm. The Original IWC-tweaked ETA 2892 versus the Asian. The Asian version has cool rose-polished finish, while the IWC uses "coates d'Geneve pattern". The IWC has more engravings on the baseplate. Still, the replica also has a S/N for the movement engraved. Engravings on rotor and baseplate. The watch feels well made, despite the rather cheap strap. It sits good on the wrist and is comfortable, especially due to the slim case profile. Adjustment of time and date is on par with other ETAs/ ETA clones. It also does do well on my timegrapher.. However when I wore the watch to work today, it suddently stopped for five minutes. I hope that was just a gltich.. Well made, sturdy crown with internal threads. Dial texture and clearity of the text is very good. Date window, fonts and markers are well made. It is clear white and thick. The IWC buckle is also well made with engravings on the front and laser etched text on the back. This is the only part of the watch which has some unfinished, sharp edges. A little grinding paper was needed to get the gen feel. Some Real-life Comparison pictures with a genuine: Gen versus Replica. Thinner seconds markers on the replica. Slightly different date font. Replica versus genuine caseback. The serial number on the genuine is photoshopped away, I assume. I am more concerned about caseback engravings and hand lengths than AR and bezel constructions. These engravings are good enough. Still room for improvement, though. Side profile: The side profile and lugs are well exceuted. Maybe the metal bezel outside the crystal is broader on the gen. The wide metal bezel on the gen along with the silghtly wider numbers and minute markers gives it a more rugged look, while the somewhat slimmer bezel on the rep along with the slimmer numbers gives the watch a slightly more dressier look.. Then agian, it might only be imagination.. Picture illustrating Gen AR. If this is corect, it is pretty close to the replica. Summation of the downsides: Seconds hand seems maybe half a mm too short. However, it elongates well within the seconds markes which is good enough for me. When viewed side by side, the numbers might be a tad too thin, but I struggle too see the difference. Seconds hand a tiny bit short. Hour hand a tiny bit too long. Date which IWC uses is lightly different from teh stock ETA-font. The genuine seems to have a broader metal bezel outside of the glass. The crown might still be a bit tall. The beveled edge on the date might not be correct, but some gens seems to have this, and I think it looks better with than without. Caseback engravings thicker and deeper on the gen. Lack of antimagnetic cover. Should have blue double-sided AR..? All in all, I am happy. The test I ask myself with every replica-purchase is: Would I have recognized this as a replica, with good general knowledge of watches and replicas but with limited model-specific reasearch? For this replica, the answer is a clear NO! The watch is well made and has the quality details of an expensive piece, no obvious flaws and the slim case is a tell that it does not contain your usual Chinese movement. Many replicas have some odd/strange replica-like features like greyish rather than clear white text on the dial, misaligned date/ strange date font, bad lume dots, complete lack of AR, wobbly crown and shallow engravings. These can be tells even if you are not familiar with the model which is replicated. There are however with minor design differences compared to the gen. Most obvious for me is the caseback engravings, for other replica geeks sure have other things to comment. Date font, AR, "the number 7" and bezel width. You can really get nuts about details in this hobby. Some black and white eyecandy.. Links/ references: http://www.watchtime...2007_02_144.pdf http://www.timezone....681541115674669 http://forums.watchu...con-207560.html http://www.freewebs....ltimepieces.htm

Cool watch! Never heard of the Commando. Thanks for the history lesson. I can imagine that you could make a new dial by using water transfer marks. I belive somebody in here used it for a Space dweller project.

Congrats on the post count and thanks for the view of your collection, Great stuff!

Why is a gen-like bezel assembly so important? I have never really understood that.. I somehow expect this new movement to "take off" as soon it gets a favourable review.. Had it been five years ago, everybody would have been excited about this.

I get the error message when trying to edit post, however posting pictures by Photobucket is working ok.

The best Mark XVI yet..? I posted this in another thread, however this is THE Mark XVI thread! http://puretimewatch.com/product/iwc-2011-11-02-01/

Hi and welcome to RWG. This is a quartz, right? I assume that the scope of the service is pretty much up to what you like to pay for. Battery replacement and polishing the bracelet should be within the skills of every average watchsmith.

Some more pictures of the Mark XVI. No price yet, I will guess around the 260 mark, judging from the other A2892 watches. http://puretimewatch.com/product/iwc-2011-11-02-01/ Me like!

Seems like some members over at Repgeek is starting to receive their watches with the new SA3135. This Yacht-Master purchaser seems happy. http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=152534&highlight=3135

That makes sense.. Thanks! Sometimes "less is more.."

Nice watch. I was just toying with my own old Seamaster Chrono replica today! I have had two of the replicas and one gen.. I sold the gen! How are the Omega lettering on the dial? Does the line go through the centre of the "Omega"? Seems like you have the "running chrono-hour counter issue".. Does the subdial at 6 runs even if the chrono is not running? This is a normal issue, due to a dirty brake lever in the movement. Nothing seriuos.

Guess you have read By-Tors review of the Explorer IIs? It is some years old, but the current status is much the same I belive.. There are some decent white dial replicas with black hour markers surround, however the date window is too far to the right.

Yes, it looks interesting. It uses the A2892 movement, so it will be thinner than the current 2836 movement.. The hands also looks good. I bought the model which was released in August.. Then right after I receive it, this model arrives on the scene... Anyway..Out with my Mark XVI. Even though it was a nice watch, I prefer the new model. There is a flood of the cheaper, dress-IWCs at the moment, using the Asian 2892. Many of the new Portofinos look good also, but I have not seen any reviews. I hope they have a decent crown on this, as the one on the current rep is a bit on the large side. The crystal actually had good two-sided AR, so I expect the new model to have it as well.. Some pictures of my Puretime IWC Mark XVI is here.

The Mark XVI has AR, but the crown is too large, and hands are off.. Still, it is a Belivable replica.

Nice stuff! The Blackbird bought back some memories... I liked mine, however I sold it on. One of Breitlings finest in my opinion.

It is nothing wrong with revive old goodwill watch reviews like this. it reminds us that although we have many excellent replicas today, there is still not a really good Speedmaster Pro. I Think eBay is the place to go for a closed caseback. According to some sources it fit the rep case. Same with the Lemania dial, however that will never fit the Seagull movement in your watch.. I have had a fantasy about buying a Lemania movement and Speedmaster dial to fit a rep case.. But do not know whether it is possible.

Great one!

Looking great on the Nato. That brings out the best in it!

I remember this thread, it helped me a lot. Would it be possible to get the pictures back up?

Great work! Interesting that the rep datewheel is updated.

happy to read posts like this again! :-)