offshore Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ever since I started in this crazy hobby, the one constant I have heard, has been, "Don't get superglue anywhere near a watch or movement" I have always taken it as a No No of high proportion, but have never heard, or seen, any reasons for this absolute loathing of anything cryanolate! Like others, I've just accepted it as "not on". I was sitting chatting with a well respected and long term watchmaker today, and he was struggling with retaining a crown on a "sloppy" stem. Now this was a cheap quartz watch, that didn't warrant much time being spent on it.(Indeed the client had indicated that anything more than a few dollars was far too much) He had tried some Loctite, which hadn't taken, and then tried a dob of solder in the thread, and reheated the crown to set the correct stem/crown height. Still it failed to secure. He eventually reached into a drawer, and pulled out a small white unmarked bottle, put a few drops on a card, and then picked up a drop or 2 on a toothpick, and filled the crown thread. Over the next few minutes he adjusted the crown height so date change and handset positions were correct, and laid the watch down. I was intrigued, as I was guessing this wasn't superglue, due to the working time he had available, so I wanted to know what he was using, "Oh, just super slow, superglue," was the answer, "I keep that bottle for times when I can't quickly or economically do anything else!" "I actually use it for many jobs, bezel inserts, stripped out screw threads on case backs, a whole lot of jobs which need a quick fix" So I needed to learn the origin of this magic brew. "I got it from my wife, she sticks her false nails on with it!" Nail glue! Has acetone as its solvent, so it is a reversible joint. Must be strong if it retains a womans nails, and this one at least, has an extended curing time. Now I'm not advocating this for one moment, nor suggesting anyone tries it, however I would be interested to hear some valid reasons why not! Offshore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Any acetone solvent glue has a pretty fragile bond; no torsional strength to speak of. I sincerely doubt that joint will hold for long at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightight Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I must admit I use it, with care, for fixing dials to dial support rings if the dial feet are missing, as an example, just a couple of spots wicks in nicely. It can easily be separated if necessary and the remnants removed by scraping or with acetone/thinners/superglue remover. I suppose the major problem with superglue is it is not viscous so creeps in everywhere and if you drop a bit into a movement, it is toast. But it is not good to take any glue near a movement without considerable care!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcoast68 Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 My understanding is that traditional super glue "out-gasses", it creates fumes that can have and adverse effect on the lubricants used on a movement, thereby gumming up the works. I have to admit that I have used superglue to affix dials before I knew of the danger in using it, and since then, do not use it on anything watch related. I would have to agree with gioarmani in that while nail glue may be a strong adhesive for what it is intended for, it may not last for long where metal to metal contact is necessary and where torsional forces happen. However, if this was a customers quartz watch he was working on, and a quartz watch will work for years without the need to use the crown for anything but to adjust the time to allow for daylight savings time (and some folks out there don't even do that), or adjust the day for an odd numbered month, its plausible that the watch in question may have its battery die or the watch be thrown away and be replaced before that crown has any chance to come loose again. So, nail glue would probably be a good stop-gap fix in that case. But super glue is a definite no no, maybe The Zigmeister can comment further on this. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Isn't this "outgassing" property what is counted on when super glue fumes are used to enhance/discover finger prints on items? As far as viscsity, there are a variety of "gel" superglues that don't run all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bike Mike Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Isn't this "outgassing" property what is counted on when super glue fumes are used to enhance/discover finger prints on items? Yes, however this requires a degree of heat. Super glue fumes are corrosive to certain types of coatings and plastics. The fumes can attack some type of dial coatings and printing, causing them to haze or whitten. I typically use diamond powder to set the crown to the stems. For so exothermic fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightight Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I don't believe superglue will 'gas off' once it is dry, the question is how long that would take, but that is only a guess based on using it for various guitar based things (for example, sealing and filling grain before finishing with paint or lacquer is a recognised use, though not one I am fond of!) Any glue is going to give out solvents over an extended period, and nitro lacquer for example (aka nail varnish) can 'gas off' for months or even years, thinning the coat and sinking into the wood grain (effectively what happens over time with a vintage guitar. I wonder if there are any downsides to using epoxy for a watch application? @JMB, the only problem with gel superglues is they don't wick by capillary action into the very small space between two parts because of their viscosity which sort of negates one of the superglue's good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 My understanding is that traditional super glue "out-gasses", it creates fumes that can have and adverse effect on the lubricants used on a movement, thereby gumming up the works. Southcoast has it partially right. Cyanoacrylate does release gases as it cures, which can damage (or at least fog) a plastic x-tal. That is why it is not recommended for use within watches, at least not those with Plexiglas. And, on a personal note, I have never found cyanoacrylate to be a permanent fix for anything other than fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightight Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 And, on a personal note, I have never found cyanoacrylate to be a permanent fix for anything other than fingers. I can vouch for that having once superglued my finger to my bench leaving me unable to reach either the superglue remover or a scalpel with which I could have escaped with the loss of a little skin. I had to remain stuck till my wife returned half an hour later!! Sure teaches you a lesson about superglue and fingers.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packard Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Here is some solid info on super glues: http://www.inseto.co.uk/insetoadhesives/adhesives/deloca.shtml click the PDF files for detailed information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I can vouch for that having once superglued my finger to my bench leaving me unable to reach either the superglue remover or a scalpel with which I could have escaped with the loss of a little skin. I had to remain stuck till my wife returned half an hour later!! Sure teaches you a lesson about superglue and fingers.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I only use thick superglue in limited applications and not where there is any tension on the parts. I have not had good success with bezel inserts and superglue, they always fall off. I'll use it to tack the dial spacer ring to the movement, and I'll use it to attach a dial to the ring, in cases where there are no dial feet. It does what I want it to do, secure the parts in place until they are fully secured into the case and clamped down by the movement and spacer ring. I use epoxy for anything requiring strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Since it was invented to close wounds.. I basically use it for lacerations.. it really works miracles on closing up cuts .. instantly.. using it on a bezel insert once froze up my bezel.. (of course .. that was just my lack of common sense at the time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Heh, as long as it was frozen in the correct orientation and not like a half tooth off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 One of the problems i have found a long time ago was that the gasses from superglue stick to any organic matter so if you have a finger print any where near, where you are gluing then in a confined space the glue fumes will find the finger print and make it visible, Very bad on a dial guys, take it from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 One of the problems i have found a long time ago was that the gasses from superglue stick to any organic matter so if you have a finger print any where near, where you are gluing then in a confined space the glue fumes will find the finger print and make it visible, Very bad on a dial guys, take it from me. reason it's used for lifting fingerprints of paper products and such.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 If you want strength with superglue, there's a trick. Say you have a plastic motorcycle sidecover and the mounting post breaks off because it's -30F. Now mind you this is purely hypothetical. How to glue that post back onto the sidecover? 1) A drop of superglue on the mating surfaces and press the post in place. 2) Drip superglue down the sides of the post, wetting it down to and across the new seam. 3) Sprinkle baking soda on the wet surface. It will stick and turn into translucent concrete. 4) Wet it some more and add more baking soda, building up a nice thick base around the post. 5) Drip superglue onto the baking soda buildup and let it soak in. 6) Repeat until it's thick and strong enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbutlerman Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 reason it's used for lifting fingerprints of paper products and such.. I had a similar experience in my younger days, and I mean younger, like 10 years ago, I had scratch up a crystal on a Kenneth Cole watch. I then ordered a replacement, hoping that it would just "pop" into place...it didn't so I decided to use my old buddy, Mr. SuperGlue. So, I filled the relief where the crystal goes into on the case and stuck in the crystal. Within 10 minutes the whole inside of the crystal filled with SuperGlue "Fog" and that was the end of that watch....it was very CSIish by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 If you want strength with superglue, there's a trick. Say you have a plastic motorcycle sidecover and the mounting post breaks off because it's -30F. Now mind you this is purely hypothetical. How to glue that post back onto the sidecover? 1) A drop of superglue on the mating surfaces and press the post in place. 2) Drip superglue down the sides of the post, wetting it down to and across the new seam. 3) Sprinkle baking soda on the wet surface. It will stick and turn into translucent concrete. 4) Wet it some more and add more baking soda, building up a nice thick base around the post. 5) Drip superglue onto the baking soda buildup and let it soak in. 6) Repeat until it's thick and strong enough. Great tip! Also, as cyanoacrylate sets in the absense of oxygen (inside the mating surfaces) on those fidgety repairs with not much mating surface, you can run a clear unaerated stream of water from the tap and hold the pieces mated together under to speed the cure. It works as an accelerator. I've come to hate the stuff tho'. It brings hope to circumstances where there really isn't any. Damn stuff. Damn cruel, messy, unreliable, stick to everything stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Wow, that bought out a host of "superglue experiences" The glue which my guy was using comes from "Adoro" in the USA. I just had a look at their web site http://www.adoro.com/bbs/view.php?id=05_Nail_Glue&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=1 to see if I could view an MSDS and get some better info. Unfortunately no MSDS on that site I could see(which in itself is a bit of a concern ) However as the nails which they attach are acrylic, I am still wondering if the Adoro product is a different product or a different blend. It certainly looked to me when he was using it, to be a more viscous liquid, (almost jelly like) than the regular superglue we know, and it most definetly allowed a much longer cure time than the normal "snap" instant gluing we know of! I will continue to investigate this one, in spite of the apparent weaknesses of normal superglue, as this could just be a product different enough to be worth a second look. May not be either, but inquisitive minds need to know! Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 A couple of drops on a toilet seat can bring a dull party to life. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 .......a different product or a different blend. It certainly looked to me when he was using it, to be a more viscous liquid, (almost jelly like) than the regular superglue we know As another member in the thread mentioned Alan, most manufacturers are offering this variant of run-of-the-mill cyanoacrylate esther. I have found Loctite brand to be brilliant in this version. I'm sure the formulas are the same pan-brand, but the Loctite packaging is well thought out. A 'pin' in the cap will keep the nib from clogging and the 'gripper' sides, when squeezed, will meter out the glue in pin points. The 'gel' formula is so much more controllable and less vaporous................... @Ken You are not a well man. 'Highflyingclive' circa 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 A couple of drops on a toilet seat can bring a dull party to life. Better watch out, or you might glue your bargaining chips to the toilet seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Dems, That is also interesting, as this guy also had a bottle of that Loctite. That very one. He insisted that the other was "better", whatever better was or is! O/S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiman12 Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Since it was invented to close wounds.. I basically use it for lacerations.. it really works miracles on closing up cuts .. instantly.. using it on a bezel insert once froze up my bezel.. (of course .. that was just my lack of common sense at the time) On an interesting note - my little girl cracked her head open this summer camping and when we went to the hospital, they used a hospital grade superglue...I asked the doctor what is the difference the stuff that hospitals use and the stuff bought off shelves. He said that the off the shelve superglue contains cyanide. You should use it an emergency situation. If you use superglue all the time to close wounds, it is better to use a medical grade superglue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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