Am I a racist?

[cornerstone]

IMO the author has carefully thought out his arguement and supported it with numerous instances of fact.

I get this horrible feeling that you actually think that. The points are neither carefully thought out, nor are they fact.

to accuse the author for being racist, then imply that the reasons for your arguement are SO obvious that if you can't see them, you are probably racist as well, is just another example of politically correct BS.

I obviously disagree. "By addressing every other non-white race as "you" and typifying the actions of a few as the actions of every other person on planet earth because of the race that they're not, yeah, that's racist. And thick."

I really think it's clear as day.

If you want me to elaborate then...

"You call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman'... and that's OK."

Not a fact, not OK.

"I call you, [censored], Towel head, Sand-[censored], Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink"

This is every other race on earth he is describing as "you".

"why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?"

Lots of races live in ghettos, including Caucasians. And I'd imagine poverty was a leading issue. Europe has poor areas filled with crime too incidentally.

"You have Martin Luther King Day."

That's a day for everyone. He was a great man.

"You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi."

Isn't this a religious holiday? A bit like Christmas? And who is "you" here exactly?

"we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce."

You're rooting for a white Chamber of Commerce, really?

"You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it."

He's talking about ORANGE people Andrew. This should be a sign. Note how "you" (everyone else on planet earth) is not afraid to announce it - sounds a bit like a generalisation to me, but make your own mind up.

"You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us."

Is this the Chinese, Mongolians, the Bangladeshis? I'm struggling to keep up here. Or is it all of them? Every person of non-Caucasian origin is trying to shoot or carjack you - is that what you're considering as well thought out and not racist? You think that because someone has a different skin color to you that they're a robbing, shooting criminal?

"But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law."

For running away? That's kind of what criminals do - even Caucasian ones. And is the procedure different for non-Caucasian police officers?

"I am proud"

To be honest I'm not sure what of if that's the size of the chip on your shoulder. Really? Proud of being born? Proud of not being a gazelle? Proud of having two ears? WTF?

"Why is it that only whites can be racists??"

Not a fact. See the rest of human history. Sigh. Perhaps too politically correct for you - okay see Rwanda as an example.

"we have LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country"

Not a fact. And the country isn't Canada anyway.

This isn't just political correctness - that email is flawed to the bone...

[jfreeman420]

I think that everyone in this world is a bit racist to an extent. The fact that people go out of their way to prove that they aren't just reinforces some fact that deep down inside they feel a bit guilty.

Racism is stupid but it will always be here. We as humans will always look to exploit the weaknesses and imperfections of others.

That said, the truth needs no explanation. Just be. Don't be anything else except you. Who cares what anyone thinks.

BTW, I'm not racist. I hate everybody equally.

[andreww]

Obviously you are taking a global view of a letter that obviously was addressing an American issue. One would have to be pretty thick to actually believe that all blacks were thieves, thugs, poor, lazy, or any other stereotype.

What I found interesting is that all the racial slurs that you listed that pertained to whites were displayed properly, yet the slurs that you listed that focused on non-whites were censored. I think that proves something.

As for the use of "you", I think you might be reading a little to much in to that. Forget whether or not whether the author is racist or not, the content is still compelling. Why isn't their a white pride day or a white kids college fund, or a white television network? These are all good points.

As for your arguement that their are probably whites in the ghettos as well as blacks. That is probably true, but why are american prisons filled with 60% blacks when they only comprise about 10% of the population? The standard excuse is poverty related, but I'll tell you that in my upper class neighbourhood (mostly white), armed roberies and gun related offenses are committed almost exclusively by blacks.

Many of the black youth today seem intent on embracing this gangster image rather than tring to distance themselves from it. They dress like hoods, baggy pants with pockets, perfect for concealing weapons, hats and hoodies worn to hide their faces. The appearance is intimidating, and it's frieghtening when you encounter them on a dark night. Then they complain that they are wathed in stores? What's worse is that whites are portrayed as racist for paying attention to them! Look at their musical idols. They are very talented, but even when these guy make it, they make a concious effort to portray the image of a gangster.

As one of the previous posters said, blacks can not expect whites to fix their problems for them. They have to get over their historic hardships and start teaching their youth how to be valuable members of society. Unfortunately, the way things are going, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[andreww]

I think that everyone in this world is a bit racist to an extent. The fact that people go out of their way to prove that they aren't just reinforces some fact that deep down inside they feel a bit guilty.

have to disagree with that. Canada is a very multicultural country, there seems to be little or no problems between any of the races. I think people for the most part are very good, and pay little attention to race.

[TeeJay]

People who don't know me, could think I was racist for wearing this jacket...

I guess combining that with having a shaved head makes me look like some White Supremacist... I can understand that, and it's my choice to wear a garment which could give that misconception, but, I think it's sad that we live in a world were pride in one's heritage or nation can be misconstrued as 'being racist'. The only thing I can say to people who do make such misguided assumptions, is that before judging a book by its cover, they really should take the time to read it and understand it properly...

As illustrated above, the Scottish Doctor wore the flag of St Andrew on his jacket, so given my English and Welsh heritage, I think it's only proper that I should wear the flag of St George, the flag representing a unified England and Wales, with my Atlantis patch. What can I say, I'm a collector of film and sci-fi memorabelia, and I'd rather have something personal (and relevant to me) than just wear a 100% off the rack replica of this jacket,

as I'd look pretty silly walking around the UK flying the Stars and Stripes...

I can't think of anything more petty than racism. Personally, I've no time for it or any other kind of bigotry.

[omni]

When my immigrant family moved into the neighborhood I grew up in 60 years ago in California, even though my parents were both professionals (doctor, chemist) a neighbor circulated a petition not to allow us into the expensive all white professionals enclave. That was racism felt first hand, the one neighbor who signed the petition eventually apologized a few years later. My how attitudes have evolved just in my short lifespan, that we as Americans have homogenized the races over the years in ever increasing numbers and making it acceptable is commendable. It is really a melting pot when you consider the greater population in the US eventually gets absorbed within all the others. My wife is considered white, but is a mixture of immigrant backgrounds; Irish, French, Spanish, Norwegian. I foresee the same mixes for my children and children's children. That we see racism as getting more intolerable than acceptable today, even though it will never disappear, is refreshing. The fact that it can be discussed thoughtfully, joked about, even on a worldwide replica watch forum says volumes.

Proud of my heritage, having been raised in the US, I'm a proud American first. My white wife, who used to rail against the country's attitudes, was forever changed by quite a few trips to other countries where prejudices are even more prevalent. I've often asked her if she saw me as a different race and the answer is "No, just a tall guy with a great tan!"

Agreeing with Lanikai's mantra of Education, its the fear of the unknown that harbors racism. Yeah, we all have to put up with some uppity people that feel their race/religion/country deserve more, but that's understandable for some who want equality without waiting for social attitudes to come around over generations.

Poverty encompasses all races in the US, just currently black poverty is more prevalent but as the new immigrants keep coming to the US from other places, that will eventually change. Look at the Irish in America at the turn of the century, they faced extreme racism and the impoverished Irish reacted in the same way as blacks do today.

[TwoTone]

and our daughter is the most beautiful mix you could hope for.

And thank the good Lord that she gets her looks from her mommy...

BTW, I'm not racist. I hate everybody equally.

"No, just a tall guy with a great tan!"

You are...

I know because we've met...

Or is the tan a rep?

[ChipSlap]

I think that everyone in this world is a bit racist to an extent. The fact that people go out of their way to prove that they aren't just reinforces some fact that deep down inside they feel a bit guilty.

+1 Racist thought is not something one can simply turn off unilaterally. It is a socially constructed system of thought to which very few of us (depending on where and how we grew up) are totally immune. Years ago I (white/hispanic) impregnated a black woman and am raising our son without her. Yet I would not be so hubristic to say that I'm free of racist thinking.

If you don't think you're racist, I recommend that you try the following link: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ Some researchers at Harvard have come up with a web-based test to determine if the test taker has any implicit associations (such as between "black" and "bad"). Taking the test is an interesting experience, and can tell you a little about your own unconscious mind. Unconscious preferences like this is the form racism takes in the 21st century. Since racism now rarely manifests itself as a bunch of Klan members shouting the N word at a random brother, some (almost always white) people who aren't so perceptive may think that it is gone.

One final point: I think it is ignorant to be proud of one's race. It is ignorant to be ashamed of it as well. I didn't choose my races, I didn't make them, it is no reflection on my talents or abilities and should be outside the arena of pride or shame. If I make, do, or conceive something, then I have a reason to feel pride or shame in it. Being proud because something happened to me? Nonsensical.

[ChipSlap]

When my immigrant family moved into the neighborhood I grew up in 60 years ago in California, even though my parents were both professionals (doctor, chemist) a neighbor circulated a petition not to allow us into the expensive all white professionals enclave.

That reminds me of the story of Nat King Cole when he had just moved into Beverly Hills. A white, racist, neighbor approached him and said that they didn't want any undesirables in the neighborhood.

Nat said: "Well if I see any, I'll let you know."

[KB]

And thank the good Lord that she gets her looks from her mommy...

Seriously I gotta agree with that.

Besides I don't think my beard and Mo would suit her.

Ken

[Dani]

I agree 100000000% whit Michael Richards..

BET like wtf if you had WET it would be stamped as some KKK [censored]..

In Norway its really bad between Ethnic and Non ethnic groups, i feelt 2-3times safer in Amsterdam then Oslo that says ALOT..

If a gang of black Africans goes on a robbing spree they always choice whites never their own colour or other immigrants here in Norway, even police chiefs goes out public to talk about this subjects but they get sited hard for not being "political" correct..

Then again i also feel that society in a all are some what behind this problems by just accepting people into a country whit no rules on language learning,courses about culture difference and so on..Setting demands on the people that comes to seek shelter..

By doing that we would not have a far right movement going as strong as it is in Europe this days..

I would love nothing more then to see immigrant in Norway behaving and cherishing the new opportunity they are given but right now, its the opposite that is going on..

Cheers,

Dani

[bruce79]

Some of us have a long way to go.

[lanikai]

This may be interesting as we can all "say" we are not racist.. I believe we all are to some extent..

but try this test .. it would be interesting to say the least..

it was created by Harvard U. ... there are other categories ot choose from too ..

Click .... Am I a Racist ??

[KB]

Click .... Am I a Racist ??

I did the whole test and then when it was going to display my result the entire link closed.

Ken

[kronos twin]

@ TT, not trying to start anything mate. I'm just not the type that feels handcuffed by political correctness. I can say what I feel simply because I know there is no hatred or bias behind it. I didn't write the above, but I can't say that I disagree with much of it.

@b16a2, granted the "N" word has a lot of bad history behind it, but I'm sure that most racial names do as well. All groups have had their fair share of hardships. Just never understood why speaking about anything associated with blacks always results in gasps. When did we go from Archie Bunker being the number one show in America, to media personalities being fired for making racialy flavored jokes?

I'm not calling you a racist, but I do question the way you characterize racism. Racism doesn't depend on whether one doesn't feel hatred or biased. The most insidious kind of racism is the kind that people feel totally authorized to say because they honestly, truly believe there's nothing wrong with it. Archie Bunker was being ironic when he played the role of a bigot on television. He was making fun of it. What was ironic about that turn was that some people couldn't pull out that irony from his performance and as a result, they perceived his jokes as a heartfelt, honest performance.

This has nothing to do with political correctness, it's about how one perceives the space around them. If they feel they can do or say anything they please without considering how others would feel, more power to you. But don't forget that you had power to begin with, otherwise you wouldn't feel entitled to speak where others have to hesitate. Racism is all about power, and most often, the power that people assume is evenly distributed amongst all people, when in reality, it's not.

[lanikai]

I did the whole test and then when it was going to display my result the entire link closed.

Ken

Maybe they thought you were from Yale.. ..

prejudice.. arsses...

[Demsey]

I took the test, and guess what?

I know already I am a racist.

But that should bear ZERO clue as to how I scored on the test.

Here's the flaw of the test and the whole arguement. The presumption is; if you feel in your conscious that one race is inherently superior to another, than you must, they must, think you consider your race the superior one. Therefore a predjudice against a race other than your own exists.

I've already addressed that fallacy with regard to 'Africans' and my personal relatonship with regard in my previous post. Don't even get me started on Native American peoples. I wish.

[gioarmani]

Technically, the questions posed at the start of this thread are race related, not racist. Stating that one has "black-pride" is race-related, it is in no way racist; to be racist, one would have to add on to that statement by saying that they have "black-pride" because they are superior. Unless that addition is made, the statement is not racist, and while some may take offense to it, just because one is offended does not automatically classify a race-related statement as racist.

If someone only reads or hears about someone else's statement to their national or race-related pride, and nothing further is said to the point on the subject of whether or not that pride is based on a belief of inferiority/superiority, then they would only wrongly deem that statement as "racist" because they have misinterpreting "pride" as a statement that everything else is inferior. This is incorrect. Knowing the difference clarifies the argument. The argument of the original post is obviously emotional and certainly not linear (and cloudy at best), but the main point it's driving at is "pride" due to one's background, or heritage. Straying on to topics of racism vs prejudice only clouds the issue further and is not a linear argument.

Personally, I think it's neat having a family tree from Germany as "recently" arriving as the late 1920s, but my interest is only cliche and a novelty, at best. I would never call myself a xxxx-American, be it German-American or Asian-America, etc., even if I technically had dual citizenship.

There's a flip-side to that coin here, though. "Pride" is only deserved of accomplishment through working at or for something; therefor, "pride" in things that you have no control over, and something you cannot work to change is absurd. Your lineage is only indicative of geography--where you happened to have been born--and/or what race/s of parents you were born to, etc.; something that is obviously out of one's control.

When you think about it, someone saying "I have 'xxxx(country) pride' or 'xxxx(race) pride'", is just as absurd and ridiculous as someone saying how proud they are that the sun came up this morning.

The other side of that coin is having pride in actually having worked for something. If someone is an immigrant (not having lived in a certain country for generations) and has worked at gaining their citizenship in said country, then yes, absolutely have pride in that. But it seems that most of the "pride" argument--from both sides of the race spectrum--in most countries it seems, stems from those whose families have been here for generations... odd, that.

For instance, what makes more sense?: 1) a Chinese immigrant who came here 15 years ago, worked, studied, waited, tested, and gained citizenship, declaring pride that he is now an "American" or even "Asian-American", or, 2) a person who touts their "Asian-American pride", who by chance of birth happens to be of Chinese lineage, whose family's generations have been living & working in California since 1894? No, actually, that type of pride is ridiculous. This person may know where their blood-line is from, and they may enjoy the culture and the language and the food, but having pride in it is simply nonsensical. Proud of your great-grandfather for having the will-power & strength to immigrate? Absolutely! But that's pride towards a person and their determination, not their race. Unless you're someone who believes that race is a determining factor in one's ability to accomplish, then race has nothing to do with it.

To me, the whole "pride" issue is simply irrelevant when based upon uncontrollable circumstance. Simply put, if the question is "what are you", the answer should be "only what your passport says". If someone asks you where your family is from, then that's a different story, but it's certainly nothing to take "pride" in.

It seems overly simplified, but it's much easier for everyone to meld together if self-labeling is left out of it--from ALL sides. Whether labeling one's self or labeling someone else, it can only serve to separate.

Edited October 13, 2009 by gioarmani

[KB]

Personally i think the term 'Pride' has been given a beating.

I mean I'm Proud to be Australian just as you my friends are proud to be Americans, British, Italian, Japanese etc etc...

I am also proud of certain musical achievements I have gained over the years, I am proud of my wife and what she has achieved and I am very proud of what my daughter has achieved.

But proud to be white, black, green, orange, gay, straight, 6'5", 3'10", etc,,,who thinks up this rubbish?

Exactly where does this end?

Are we one day going to be walking out of the toilet and saying I'm proud I just took a 2lb dump?

If we all decided to just drop the whole 'Pride' bit maybe, just maybe there might be a little less division in the first place.

Ken

[Nanuq]

If we all decided to just drop the whole 'Pride' bit maybe, just maybe there might be a little less division in the first place.

Well said, Ken. Even for an ignorant Aussie.

(running and hiding)

All kidding aside, those are great points. And yet, our public schools are teaching kids to have massive self esteem, which they do not earn, and they actively remove potential sources of what I call "character building events". For example, all the little darlings get a trophy at a soccer match, and often no score is kept. We can't have anyone getting their feelings bent because they lost.

How can this pumped up and unearned self esteem be reconciled against what might be called "pride"? Certainly it's not racist to be proud of your accomplishments, but what about being proud of yourself simply because you exist? Might this baseless pride/esteem be part of what seems to be driving an artificially elevated sense of self worth, often at the expense of others?

If you've never had to concede defeat, it's awfully hard to give someone else credit for being "better" than you. Not because of who they are, but for what they do.

When you've never had to encounter those feelings of competition and loss in yourself, then probably you've never done the mental work to understand the difference between "who" you are and "what" you do. And by extension, the fact that everyone else feels the same as you.

[KB]

Exceptionally well put Nanuq.

Ken

[lanikai]

Well said, Ken. Even for an ignorant Aussie.

(running and hiding)

All kidding aside, those are great points. And yet, our public schools are teaching kids to have massive self esteem, which they do not earn, and they actively remove potential sources of what I call "character building events". For example, all the little darlings get a trophy at a soccer match, and often no score is kept. We can't have anyone getting their feelings bent because they lost.

How can this pumped up and unearned self esteem be reconciled against what might be called "pride"? Certainly it's not racist to be proud of your accomplishments, but what about being proud of yourself simply because you exist? Might this baseless pride/esteem be part of what seems to be driving an artificially elevated sense of self worth, often at the expense of others?

If you've never had to concede defeat, it's awfully hard to give someone else credit for being "better" than you. Not because of who they are, but for what they do.

When you've never had to encounter those feelings of competition and loss in yourself, then probably you've never done the mental work to understand the difference between "who" you are and "what" you do. And by extension, the fact that everyone else feels the same as you.

Hana Hou !!!!

I am not surprised by Nanuq's outlook on mentoring the youth...

we were talking with Coaches and were dismayed that all teams (little league) got trophies ..not that they didn't deserve recognition..

the point was, children should learn from disappointment.. as well as success ... so they could strive to improve.. self esteem is a product of perseverance at times..

I really believe the youth needs both disappointment .. but should be encouraged to do better and not be ashamed of not always winning..and to win humbly and with sportsmanship..

I for one have learned more by loosing than by winning.. anyone can be a good winner.. how we handle falling down is what character building is all about.. respecting ones self so you can "Respect" all others..

Just to say ..I'm proud to be on a Forum that has the likes of Nanuq... ..

my colour would be purple given his climate...

AC

Lani

[tenacious_b]

Regardless of how this post makes anyone feel, the contents cannot be disputed. Every point made is valid. That being said, I think all organizations that segregate based on race should be dismantled. There should be no KKK, no La Raza, no NAACP, no Black Panthers, no Reconquista, no black only or hispanic only, or asian only, or white only, etc, awards. Holding such events and giving such awards is tantamount to saying that we are not all equal and this has to be done to level the playing field of natural ability, talent, intelligence, beauty, etc.

[Nex_necO]

Regardless of how this post makes anyone feel, the contents cannot be disputed. Every point made is valid. That being said, I think all organizations that segregate based on race should be dismantled. There should be no KKK, no La Raza, no NAACP, no Black Panthers, no Reconquista, no black only or hispanic only, or asian only, or white only, etc, awards. Holding such events and giving such awards is tantamount to saying that we are not all equal and this has to be done to level the playing field of natural ability, talent, intelligence, beauty, etc.

+1

And that includes racially charged words as well. The more people focus on what you can or can't say only contributes to promote racism.

By the way, I'm Norwegian. When I was young it was perfectly ok to say "Negro". Apparently that is not ok to say anymore. What about Negress?

Atleast in norwegian, negress is a positively charge word, witch depict a beautiful black woman.

[Demsey]

When I was young it was perfectly ok to say "Negro". Apparently that is not ok to say anymore. What about Negress?

Living in the Southeast US the older generations still refer to themselves as 'Negro' if their generations take them back to the 1800's US. Funny, the Black Cubans call themselves, well, Cubans. And speaking of 'pride' anyone who floated 210+ miles on a lawn chair held up by a few inner tubes to get here? They can throw out their chest in Latino pride anytime in my presence. That's basically how F-L-O-R-I-D-A was discovered in the first place.

@ Bob,

No doubt. But you know, it's really up to the parents to sort this stuff out. You've obviously taken the reigns, and speaking of which, my daughters being delved into the equestrian pursuits know failure after hard work certainly. The infrastucture is 'private' so, no ribbons given for poor performance. Tears? Sure, but later, after the fanfair for the Champion and Reserve and 'other' riders walking from the arena with ribbons on their bridles. They get theirs too, but a third place 'show'? Like solid gold.

But, that leads to another conundrum. The 'team'. Up till now, they have no concept of letting down the 'team', only themselves. All organized team sport around here is as you've outlined. We may have to wait until high school for that. They'll be ready.