FxrAndy Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 @ Andy We know it is a Seagull because it was ordered directly from the Seagull Factory and supplied by them. Ah ha, roger out, i am off to sit in the corner The other comparison on TZUK is here 11 pages long but you only need the first 5 to get all the info, somwhere in there there is a photo of and ETA and two other chinese clones side bu side but i cant find it. I do hope from what ziggy has placed before us that the QC of the official seagull movements is not slipping and this is a one off, I have had a 20 good to one Bad (over oiled seagull hand wind) which is 95% perfect over the last 6 months, The British horological institute also sees fit to put their name on a seagull tourby so i pray this was a bad day for the QC guy. another good review here as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thanks, RG. Great write-up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hey, Zigmeister: As always, terrific report! I may be a bit old fashioned, but I'm a sucker for those ol' ETAs. Great to see that you haven't lost your magic touch. Thanks for taking the time. Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Jet, the watch in your avatar. Is it bending that spoon with it's mind? Whoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Brilliant - thank you! This should set the cat amongst the pigeons with some of the watches with 'Swiss' ETA movements being sold at a premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 This should set the cat amongst the pigeons with some of the watches with 'Swiss' ETA movements being sold at a premium. No doubt. You could almost hear the collective; "Oh. Dear." when the collectors read the title of this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 No doubt. You could almost hear the collective; "Oh. Dear." when the collectors read the title of this topic. This may explain their sudden urgency to get Pugwash off the forum and on an all-expenses paid trip to Vegas :lol: [i keeed, I keeed... ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 This may explain their sudden urgency to get Pugwash off the forum and on an all-expenses paid trip to Vegas :lol: [i keeed, I keeed... ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 This may explain their sudden urgency to get Pugwash off the forum and on an all-expenses paid trip to Vegas lol Joshua and Andrew dressed in chauffeur's uniforms standing at the bottom of the escalator at McCarran International, holding a paper sign; "PUGWASH". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 lol Joshua and Andrew dressed in chauffeur's uniforms standing at the bottom of the escalator at McCarran International, holding a paper sign; "PUGWASH". lol I suspect one would sit directly behind pugs in the car until they reached the outskirts, nice and quiet like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 No doubt. You could almost hear the collective; "Oh. Dear." when the collectors read the title of this topic. Absolutely correct! As Zig has mentioned earlier, these movements are in abundance....and I believe ALL of them are being sold as "Genuine Swiss ETA"... I myself bought my Seagull-powered SOSF as a "Swiss ETA" one. Well of course, some collectors will also have you believe that they themselves were duped too! This may explain their sudden urgency to get Pugwash off the forum and on an all-expenses paid trip to Vegas :lol: [i keeed, I keeed... ] Puggy must be lapping it all up now, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkBachs Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I feel a little smarter today because of all of you, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I myself bought my Seagull-powered SOSF as a "Swiss ETA" one. I must be lucky I've had my share of disappointments, too. As I'm sure we all have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Very interesting, thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demsey Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 some collectors will also have you believe that they themselves were duped too! Yeah and that's a hard one to disprove. Like the mobster on the stand; "I do not recall that". Hmmmmmmm. I would imagine more often than not 'factory' will hang the collector out to dry. And then again, more often than not, we are "Stupid dog face who buy crummy watch. HA!" Kind of like Detroit automobile manufacturers. So. You have to go with your gut. I'm kinda likin' it. Things were getting too easy on the noobs. "Add to your Cart" -click- and then three days later; 99% Planet Ocean with Swiss ETA COSC? Pffffft! I've always thought the best facet of this whole hobby was the 'hunt' and the bent on doing well by one's own self through good due diligence, research and judgement. With RWG and posts like these, it's not like your not loaded for bear. Good watches for good money? Shoot. The mall has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hi Folks, A BIG thanks to Zig for spending the time to work on, photograph and write this up. These write-ups take time, and this one takes some serious specialist knowledge, skill and chutzpah to put together. I ordered this one directly from the Sea Gull factory in China. A little bit of a cludgy order as a sample collection of movements. I don't have my docs here...but I believe this is the ST21 movement (it was not on any of their corporate literature but I was able to order one on spec from my contact in China). As Zig stated, this movement has been showing up in his observation with ETA stampings. Whether or not this is being done by Sea Gull directly, or after the fact by the rep factories is anybody's guess. Zig wrote me that the movement can take ETA datewheels and has the same hand sizes as the gen ETA, and has the same diameter and thickness so is technically a substitute option. The movement costs a little less than 50% of the cost of the gen ETA movement at a little more than $50 USD shipped. Is it a good value alternative? Hard to say given lack of spare parts being readily available, and immediate requirements for servicing for reliable operation. Better than an Asian 21J DG2813/48i13? It's 28.8 so at least the beat is ok and hence the sweep will be smooth...and it seems much more robust and serviceable rather than the disposability of the $20 DG2813 or the $40 high cannon pinion that seems to be charged for the DG4813...so in that sense definitely better. Thanks again Zig for the great write-up as always. EDIT: This movement is the ST21 (aka TY2130) and is often referred incorrectly as the ST24. The cost was $48.40 USD shipped which compared to a DG2813 at $20 shipped...or the rarer high hand DG4813 which costs at minimum $40 USD shipped and will still have the choppier 28.8 sweep compared with the Sea Gull is a better movement...and can take an ETA datewheel which is great for Omegas and fitting other aftermarket wheels which are usually made for ETA movements and not necessarily made as overlays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Thnx Z, very helpful and informative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Thank you Zigmeister, again a very well and helpful writeup. It will be a real help finding good movements. And again again again from your experience it can be concluded that ALL movements greatly benifit from a full service because of over oiling, no oil, dirt, hairs etc etc. Based on your experience and writeups I let all my movements being serviced. but to do that with all 7750's I own it will be quite expensive, but I am very much aware that it is best for the movement in the long run. once again, thank you very much!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 lol I suspect one would sit directly behind pugs in the car until they reached the outskirts, nice and quiet like. As you can see, I made it back ok. The Zigmeister, amazing post. As usual, you're the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Amazing work...photography and critical investigation and evaluation. I'm sure this would send a collective shock through the collectors who believe they can scam the buying public without them ever knowing they were taken. I hope a small number of us end up sending back less than satisfying pieces but if we have to, we are armed with ironclad evidence. I am always amazed by this micro machine world and the steady handed artists who take their craft very seriously. Rob...thank you so much my friend. You are a first rate craftsman and person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted February 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Your very welcome, best to be armed with some insight now and then...but then Pug knows all about getting the truth out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Incredibly well done walk through of this movement; the Zig standard for these movement reviews. Nobody does it better!! Cheers, //ubi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Seagull is cheap stuff (sometimes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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