When do you Need to get the Gen?

[JohnCraig]

I have several gens, all prior to my rep addiction, all fairly common, mostly Rollies.

I have about 30 reps (another dozen + have come and gone), many of which I would never have purchased as gens, for one reason or another.

My tastes have changed and continue to change, last month's favorite gets little wrist time and something from the back of the box grabs my attention.

Lately a couple favorites have been replaced with supermodded or franken versions. Love them alot, but cann't give up the need to throw on something different some days.

But, the rotation is getting smaller, sort of like the bench rotation in the NBA finals.

I know that I will keep about half of what I own just for the variety but I'm starting to feel the NEED to get "the real thing".

1. When do you decide to pull that trigger?

2. What watch did it for you?

3. Was it worth it?

[Ronin]

1.) When no super rep, or easily franken-able exists.

2.) (Thanks to my wife) Explorer II White Face.

3.) Yes and No. Bang for the buck, probably- No. Ability to wear it in certain social & business situations, and keeping it as an heirloom- Yes.

[Guest Carl]

1. I have yet to feel that need.

2. See #1

3. See #1

Maybe I am the only one here in this situation.

Or maybe I am the only genuine rep lover here, not lusting for any gen.

I have some gens that I wear from time to time. A couple of Bucherers.

They cost me what a very high end rep would cost. But I have never spent that much on a rep. It's just a hobby with me and has never transformed to an obsession.

I'm not being judgmental, it's your money, your hobby, and your watch. I hope there is still room for some actual out-of-the-box rep fans here.

Carl

[By-Tor]

All my gens have been "rep tested" first. When the watch has proven to have long term appeal, I purchase the gen version.

Then there are watches that I'm a "casual fan" of. Like the Rolex Submariner. WM9 is damn good. Who doesn't love the legendary Sub... but for me it's not a "grail watch" or anything so I'm happy with the super rep.

[Bike Mike]

I am with By-Tor. Rep tested first then move to the Gen. Some times this has been less then a day others times it has been a year. Some times too, I buy the rep to keep me happy until the gen is available, when I know it had me at my first look.

Some piece like B&R's that are just not worth the money IMO, are perfect for my rep collection.

[Bansenshukai]

I actually started with gens myself. At one point, I had several. Then, I discovered this rep hobby and found far more depth in it. In the effort to acquire that rep which was most accurate - as per the gen of its kind - I had to learn about movements, build materials, the history of the different time pieces, the history of the various brands, about the balance between form and function and so forth.

I probably would have not had that keen interest if I only stuck to gens. Mainly, if you have a gen ... well, then that's it; you got it.

The time I essentially realized that I no longer had a NEED to purchase new gens was when I purchased a Rolex Yachtmaster (Swiss ETA Mvt) and the watch kept time to COSC standards with $4750 USD Rolex Explorer II. The cost of the Yachtmaster? At the time, $220 (2006). Since then, I've had it relumed and re-polished. It is one of my most priced watches and, four years later, it still keeps time to COSC standards. And, yes, it is a rep. My current DSSD rep maintains time with a loss of just 2 seconds per day! It's not the norm, for sure; but, the gen DSSD costs about $9000 USD. My rep was just under $500 USD. Don't get me wrong, gens are awesome. I just reached a point when I realized that for what watches did - tell time - I was no longer going to part with thousands of dollars at a time when I found the rep hobby so much more fun.

[fakemaster]

1. I have yet to feel that need.

2. See #1

3. See #1

[cougaree]

I'm with BT also. I think a lot of us are the same way. If the watch passes the rep test, then it's time for a genuine piece (I will always keep an eye on genuine sales ad until one day I find a good deal). I try to avoid paying premiums for a gen. Just like a lot of people here, I started with genuine pieces. My first rep to gen purchase is a Omega Planet Ocean 45mm.

Edited March 14, 2010 by cougaree

[valerian]

Me too, I use reps to test the water. If I really really like the rep I'm starting to think about getting the gen. Now there's many factors to make me decide to really buy it. Funds being one of the more important, of course. Lack of flaws with the rep will keep me longer from buying the gen. Why buy a gen if the differences are only theoretical?

The Rolex Sub is one perfect example for this: I 've been thinking about buying the Gen for a long time. Then I bought the WM9v2 Sub and my gen lust has subsided.

I hope the WM9 Ses-Dweller does the same soon or I will loose my temper and go for broke (i.e. gen).

Val.

[Pugwash]

1. When do you decide to pull that trigger?

2. What watch did it for you?

3. Was it worth it?

1. When one came up for the right price. Well, I decided a year or two before and waited.
   
2. Speedmaster Pro
   
3. Oh yes.
   

[TeeJay]

1. I have yet to feel that need.

2. See #1

3. See #1

Maybe I am the only one here in this situation.

Or maybe I am the only genuine rep lover here, not lusting for any gen.

I have some gens that I wear from time to time. A couple of Bucherers.

They cost me what a very high end rep would cost. But I have never spent that much on a rep. It's just a hobby with me and has never transformed to an obsession.

I'm not being judgmental, it's your money, your hobby, and your watch. I hope there is still room for some actual out-of-the-box rep fans here.

Carl

You're not the only one, I totally agree with you

I'll preface my little rant by saying that this is not aimed at anyone here. When I say 'you', I mean the generic 'you', not you/anyone personally

1. While all the watches I bought when I was younger, were gen, they were all mostly of easily affordable brands, Accurist, Casio, Timex etc. To be brutally honest, gen watches bore me to tears in terms of discussing them. Sure, they are nice watches and look great, but perfection is inherent in them, there is no need to modify or build for improvement, only personal taste, so very little to actually say about them, other than 'nice watch'... I suspect that many would not customize a gen watch (ie Rolex, Omega etc) for fear of devaluing it... I find much more pleasure in looking at photos of a $50 Submariner, than a $5000 gen, as the anti-consummerist in me knows that the cheaper item was actually value for money, where the expensive one simply is not. If value is all you care about, sell the watch, and buy the equivalent amount in gold. That will never devalue, and at least someone else will use the safequeen in the way in which its designers and manufacturers intended... I remember seeing the photo a while back of a safequeened SeaDweller which was so flawless, it looked fake. Not a scratch, not a scuff anywhere on it. It saddened me that the watch had never been worn as intended, and when I mentioned it to a friend who appreciates watches, but is not really 'interested in them', she just said "What a pathetic waste..."

If I was to ever buy a gen, it would have to be because I had won the lotto, had a ludicrous amount of money to spend, and then, I would be buying the watches to use as parts donors, not as 'out of the box' wearers. Never having enough money my entire life has taught me the value (or more accurately, the lack of value) in 'prestige brandname' goods. Winning a load of money (or earning it, for that matter) would not erase a lifetime's conditioning to always look for the best value (not necessarily the cheapest item, but the item which is the best value for money. The best 'bang for the buck', as is the expression in the US) Besides, who would ever dream of thinking that the guy who won the lotto and lives in a replica of Tony Stark's Malibu Mansion is wearing clothes from the supermarket and wearing fake watches?

2. I don't believe there's a branded gen which would make me want to drop the cash on it. I had something of a 'moment of clarity' while browsing a sales site a few days back... I was mentally re-visiting my idea of maybe getting a PP Nautilus when I can scrape the cash together to do so. (Money is still as low in income for me as it was a year ago, but I have at least got rid of my creditors, so there's less stress, and what little I do get in, I can actually use to live on, not just hand over in repayments. This is not a sypmathy 'send me some cash' plea, I accept my circumstances, and live within my means: See the concepts of giri and the greater jihad for my mental acceptance, I am simply pointing out that my income is certainly not the healthiest it has ever been) Anyway, I was looking at the various color variants, and thinking they were nice, but not really my cup of tea, when I suddenly thought "I might as well just get a white-dialled DateJust..." I don't consider a Nautilus functional enough as a diver's watch, and certainly would not meet my requirements for use as a daily beater (must have timing bezel and diver's extension on the bracelet) and in terms of a 'smart watch', I'm not overly struck on the case design, I think a DJ has a more elegant case... The point of this little mental ramble? I mentally rejected one thing thinking "I might as well just get..." I believe that even if I had the cash to afford a gen, I would still mentally reject it thinking "I might as well just get a rep, and put the rest of the money towards something else..." People see 'Rolex' on the dial and automatically think Rolex = Fake. As Fakemaster's signature says, people are more likely to think a gen is a rep, than to believe a rep is a gen, so why waste money on something to try and impress strangers who most likely do not care anyway? The rep will do the same job just as well, and look just as nice on the wrist, so to me, that's the best value for money. Many may argue that their gens 'just feel better'. I'm sorry to disagree, but given how someone went ten years thinking their rep was a gen, that just shows that that "just feels better" mystique is nothing more than personal perception, based on a person's personal connection to a watch (ie as a gift received, a gift purchassed with bonus pay, won in a competition, etc etc) it is the experience itself which makes that watch seem that little bit better, not some alchemical process of its manufacture which imbibes it with that little 'magic extra'. The first time I tried on a gen Sub, I was so underwhelmed by it, I decided to go out and buy a rep. I've tried on a gen white EXP II, but was so unimpressed by it, I practically tore the thing off my wrist. Of course, the next guy who walked into the shop probably thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, bought it without a second's hesitation, and probably thinks that it feels 'soooo much better than any cheap rep' simply because it is a gen... Nothing more than perception. Perceptions differ from person to person and perceptions change, and of course, opinions change as well, but I would believe that people's 'core values' would remain constant...

3. I think my above musings answer that question, but to summarize, as long as there is a rep available of a watch I want, I don't think a gen would ever 'be worth it' in my opinion, in terms of making me want to part with cash. Received as a gift, is a different matter, but in terms of actual purchasing one, it's just not going to happen, and, additionally, if there's not a rep available of a watch I might want, chances are there's a rep available of something which I would consider a satisfactory alternative

Thanks for reading, sorry for the rant, I'll get off my soapbox now and sit back in my corner To paraphrase Carl: I'm not being judgmental, it's your money, your hobby, and your watch, so enjoy it your way

[gran]

I know that I will keep about half of what I own just for the variety but I'm starting to feel the NEED to get "the real thing".

1. When do you decide to pull that trigger?

2. What watch did it for you?

3. Was it worth it?

1. It has to be an excellent watch that has not been replicated

2. The Benzinger and Svend Andersen watches

3. Those two brands are worth it....when I can afford them

[Watchmeister]

I am much more particular now that really good reps are available. And yes, I also have used reps to test drive a gen watch. The two areas where I stick with gens are in-house movements and precious metal pieces for the obvious reasons. But my heart definitely goes out to the long term build frankens. Those are the watches I treasure far more than any gen. My safe queens are the frankens not the gens. So I buy gens when I know I love the piece, can buy them at a price where I can resell without a sizeable loss (in case I get bored of it) and most importantly can afford them which with kids is not very often.

[fakemaster]

I have been fortunate enough to have gotten past the anal thing. If I ever come across an actual instance where someone has beeen called out on a rep where they didn't cause it I might change my mind. Until then reps are fine with me.

[By-Tor]

It has nothing to do with "getting called out" for me. It's about being a WIS.

You really like some watch model and you want the best available model of it = you get the gen. Simple as that.

[fakemaster]

II am in total agreeance. If you are looking for the perfect 1:1 then yes you should buy a gen because there is no such thing.

[TeeJay]

It has nothing to do with "getting called out" for me. It's about being a WIS.

You really like some watch model and you want the best available model of it = you get the gen. Simple as that.

I agree, but only so long as the best available model is a requirement What would a gen 6200 cost? Upwards of $10K? Upwards of $20K? I simply couldn't ever justify spending that much money on a watch, on general principle, even if I had so much cash that the amount itself was not an issue. I think the gen option only really comes into play if someone would never be satisfied with the best modded rep or franken, but that is when I wonder, how much of it is a true love of The Watch, as opposed to a love of The Brand... I have a friend who I bought a very plain AP as a birthday gift, who works in a video store.

He once said (actually, at the time I took the photo, the day before my wedding ) that someone did once ask him if it was real or not, but it sounded like they were genuinely interested in it as a watch, rather than trying to call him out about it. Of course, he could buy a gen (or rep) Sub and wear it to work, and constantly be asked if it's real or fake, simply because it's a Rolex... I could put a $50 Sub and a gen Sub in front of him, and chances are, he would not (nor would anyone else he would come into contact with) be able to tell the difference between the two, so that's when it becomes a matter of perspective and perception: Of course, one watch is real, the other is not, but, if no one really cares either way, and the only goal is a 'similar aesthetic', then it ceases to be an issue, and to me, that's when getting bang for the buck, is more important

[Edit to add]

As a little bit of trivia, the bracelet and dial of the GMTSub I'm wearing in that photo, are the bracelet and dial of my 6200 project (after considerable vintaging to the bracelet, and a complete re-finishing of the dial )

[panerai153]

I started off with genuine watches many moons ago.I have always loved watches, probably from a Psycologist viewpoint an "obsession" At that time, there were no reps that I know of. I have always been a fan of Rolex, because they personified the quality and wearability that I needed. I had a progression of Rolex models from an AirKing through several SD's Subs and at two different times 18k Day/dates. I couldn't afford to collect, so progression was trade one and buy another. Remember this was way before the internet. About the mid 80's reps begin to appear on the scene. The Rolex models were awful,but all of a sudden they were everywhere. Of course at some point in time, anyone who saw a Rolex assumed it was fake.I hesitate to even call these watches replicas, because they were so far from the real thing! About this time, I decided to venture out to other brands, as Rolex prices had gotten pretty high, and i was disallusioned with all the attention. All of the watches that replaced my Rolexes were genuine watches of various brands.IWC, Breitling,Maurice LaCroix,Oris. While I liked most of them, they really didn't "move" me.The only one's left are a 14k Gold IWC Calatrava, which I consider the ideal dress watch, An Omega Speedmaster "moon" watch, An Omega X-33, A couple of Doxas and an Ocean7 LM-7 Ploprof which to me is a great "tool" watch.

Around 2004-5, I was trolling the internet,looking for a Rolex 1680, and came across TRC. Curious, I got on board and realized that there were reps out there that with some modding were 99%+ of genuine. Also buying reps wasn't going to bust my meager watch budget. Reps have given me a chance to participate in modding watches bringing them from good to great. I also realized that a rep with a genuine ETA movement was essentially the same watch as the genuine at 10% of the cost. So more bang for the buck. Reps have given me the opportunity to "test drive" watches with out the cash outlay of genuine. I tried out a GMT Master rep and ultimately invested in a genuine 16750. Others have been sold and not replaced with the genuine model.So I suppose Reps have given me the opportunity to try watches that 1) I may like, but may not, 2) Watches I simply can't afford in the genuine model 3) Allowed me to participate in and gain a great deal of knowledge about watches on great forums like this one,interacting with other watch "fanatics" with a mutual bond, WATCHES, WATCHES,WATCHES.

Prehaps from this, I would venture, my quest has been backward, genuine to reps, rather than reps to genuine.At my age, nearing retirement, I probably won't buy any more genuine, unless as someone said, I win the Powerball lottery and end up with a boatload of money. Highly unlikely, so I will be very satisfied with the few genuines I have left and all the nice Reps that I have and those still out there waiting to be discovered.

[freddy333]

Like it or not, I think every watch enthusiast should have at least 1 classic Rolex - either a Sub or DJ, rep or gen. So 1 of my 1st rep watches was a DJ & my 1st gen was also a DJ. I have sampled just about every type & style of wrist watch over the past 25+ years - big, small, flashy & plain, but always come back to Rolex. Fashions may come & go, but a classic (gen) Rolex will always command attention.

And, in the end, I think the old axiom is true - 'When you feel you have finally made it, you owe yourself a (gen) Rolex'.

[TeeJay]

Like it or not, I think every watch enthusiast should have at least 1 classic Rolex - either a Sub or DJ, rep or gen. So 1 of my 1st rep watches was a DJ & my 1st gen was also a DJ. I have sampled just about every type & style of wrist watch over the past 25+ years - big, small, flashy & plain, but always come back to Rolex. Fashions may come & go, but a classic (gen) Rolex will always command attention.

And, in the end, I think the old axiom is true - 'When you feel you have finally made it, you owe yourself a (gen) Rolex'.

+1

I fully accept that having the R Word on the dial is the most likely to attract attention to the watch, and potentially get the dreaded "Is that real?" question, but, I must agree with Freddy's comment that every watch enthusiast should have at least one classic Rolex as part of their collection. I started off with a modern Sub, which I soon substituted with a 42mm Planet Ocean, before getting pulled into the lure of Panerai, but in the end, my interest returned to Rolex. Not so much as a brand, but more a case of the range and variety available, of both the models available, and the historic variants available within those model lines. There really is something for everyone, whatever their requirements or tastes may be

[lanikai]

I started this journey with reps.. not that I didn't own any kind of genuine watches before.. they were of the Seiko, and Swiss Army variety.. but as far as name brands .. reps were first.'

and ultimately the desire to own a genuine Rolex was a seed that was nurtured through reps..my first was the Explorer white dial circa 1980's which still had the drilled lugs..

But after another gen Rolex I realized I coveted my top frankens more,.. and ergo they were and are getting more wrist time.. although my Doxa's are the exception tot he rule.. when it comes to gen vs. rep lately..

Having 1 or 2 gen Rolex in your collection is a nice way to add the icing on the cake.. price certainly came into play as I got both for very good prices.. IMHO..I paid a little more in all for my Doxa's..

In h9nd sight .. I would do the same.. as this hobby is definitely about the journey and not the destination.. the genuine will hold it's value no doubt, so I'm sure if I ever needed to sell them it would not be a problem.

My frankens each have a story to tell, and I am reminded of the fellowship and RWG.

So I don't think there is any parameters for whatever you choose to collect.. it's the experience and projects that provide the fuel for the fire that keeps it going..

AT times this hobby and RWG has saved me from the crazyness that surrounds my biz and life itself..

for me, living for the moment and doing what feels right is all encompassing at times.. and staying in the moment weather it be for one project or many .. keeps me together..

so the morale of that is.. do what feels right at the moment.. life is too short to plan in such detail at times..

AC/Lani

[JohnCraig]

I appreciate the thoughtful responses and the insights.

I hold common thoughts with much of what has been said, both here on on RG (same thread but very different responses).

Since I already have the requisite Rollies, I guess I should be good for now. And I love my better reps, actually all my reps.

It's just that my MBW AP ROO Black Themes has really hypnotized me. My son bought me a couple of those coffee table books on the history of watches and the AP history is just too cool.

And the Genta designed watches are all favorites of mine regardless of brand.

Just wish this baby was reasonably priced on the "preowned" market. OR It was repped with quality equal to my DW 6265 V72

[red series 3]

It was a green sub LV that grabbed my attention and I bought a rep to test drive it.

When the rep was falling to bits some 5 years on I thought about what it needed to make it better, clasp datewheel etc. Thought about spending money on it and then thought of the price of the gen at the time the exchange rate was good with the US and I pulled the trigger.

I want a daydate but don't like the idea of $60000 for a platinum version, I'm not into yellow gold. So i want to build one with a datejust case one day...

It is also really handy to get a reputation for owning rep watches. There's a reduced chance of losing your wrist. If they expect its a rep.

I had one guy call me out on the sub LV when i was wearing the gen. I even let him hold it (I was feeling generous) Told me it was a fake and a poor quality one at that. I smiled on the inside.

If you like to tinker this is a great hobby

[jcagara08]

I will buy the gen after I will get tired of a rep version, or when you have the enough money (financially stable and no worries for the moment, not to mention you have saved up for a fave gen watch) and not purchasing it thru credit cards to get killer discounts and be guilt free from you family..

[kramerica2]

I have several gens, all prior to my rep addiction, all fairly common, mostly Rollies.

I have about 30 reps (another dozen + have come and gone), many of which I would never have purchased as gens, for one reason or another.

My tastes have changed and continue to change, last month's favorite gets little wrist time and something from the back of the box grabs my attention.

Lately a couple favorites have been replaced with supermodded or franken versions. Love them alot, but cann't give up the need to throw on something different some days.

But, the rotation is getting smaller, sort of like the bench rotation in the NBA finals.

I know that I will keep about half of what I own just for the variety but I'm starting to feel the NEED to get "the real thing".

1. When do you decide to pull that trigger?

2. What watch did it for you?

3. Was it worth it?

Great topic!

1. When there isn't any super rep available, and there is something special about the gen that a rep could never replicate.

2. a. Omega Speedmaster - there isn't a good rep for it, and no rep could ever replicate the history and meaning of that piece.

b. Omega Planet Ocean 8500 - Obviously no rep yet, and again no rep could replicate that movement. Not engineering wise and not design wise.

3. Talking about "worth" in luxury watches is tricky. I don't need it to get appreciation. I feel perfectly safe wearing any super rep at any situation. No way you'd be called out, so at that sense you get the same from a 300$ rep, why buy a 5K$ gen? However, the feeling is totally different. It's something you're proud to wear, and sometime leave as a special heirloom.

And you know what, many times the watch value increases over time. I'm not saying for a second that it's a good financial investment, but you probably won't lose much money (if any), when you'll decide to sell it later on.

For example, I bought my speedy 2.5 years ago for 3K$. It's impossible to find it today for less than 3.5K$, and if you convert it to my local currency, the gap is even bigger.