Review Of A Rollie With $600 In Upgrades...

[bkdc]

A picture is worth a thousand words...... I noticed RBJ's expert forum section is now gone.

[longshot]

Thanks Rob

All I lost was shipping both ways and being able to wear my Sub for 45 days or so. The rude PM's were just deleted immediately.

The best thing about Rob is not that his work is great and reasonably priced and that he takes such pride in it. But that if something is not perfect he will go the extra mile to make it so!

[MacDad22]

Rob-

Thanks for tastefully posting this issue again. I was one of the people on RWG1 who came to RBJ's defense early on. Of course my experiences with him were excellent. A have a close friend I refered to him to repair an PAM that he has had over a year. I can no longer in good faith support RBJ when so many people have had issues. I hope he returns to his original self and recovers from whatever issues that have created poor communication, poor work quality, etc..

In fact today I received an MBW 16610 modern sub that I bought from someone on a different forum that was modded by RBJ that is spectacular. It is without a doubt the best sub I have seen ( granted I'm only semi-proficient and not in the league as most of you.

It is unfortunate that state of all of this and I also now the a year and a half ago there was someone else with questionable practices that was modding watches from the southwest.

I am also sick about the person's watch you posted. That person have a bunch of money in that watch and it's near useless. Good luck and post pics when your done with it ( if the owner will let you ) as it would be interesting to see how it turns out.

Mac

[By-Tor]

65.00 USD-new insert with correct ring around the pearl and font size

What "correct" ring around the pearl? That pearl looks dreadful...and absolutely NOTHING like the Rolex 1665 DRSD acrylic pearl. Actually it looks even worse and more inaccurate than the rather poor default pearl that comes with the MBW watch.

[archibald]

Do the math: Bad workmanship is one thing, outright scamming is another. Do the math. Many people sent their watches to be essentially stored for months, then paid $25 for $4.00's worth of return shipping. 140 watch backlog. If 1/2 those people just said "to helll with it" and paid the $25 "shipping" charge, that's $1470 for unpackaging and repackaging watches.

[TJGladeRaider]

Do the math: Bad workmanship is one thing, outright scamming is another. Do the math. Many people sent their watches to be essentially stored for months, then paid $25 for $4.00's worth of return shipping. 140 watch backlog. If 1/2 those people just said "to helll with it" and paid the $25 "shipping" charge, that's $1470 for unpackaging and repackaging watches.

Damn!! You just beat me to that!

Bill

[Bignasty]

Jon,

You should know, you got one of my disasters. Did you ever get the case back off?

Steve

Yeah I had to notch the caseback in order to remove it. Movement was ruined in the process. I've still got the case, bracelet, and hands for possibly a future project. Horrible how the back was on though. Almost like it was glued .

[panerai153]

Well folks,I'm really glad that Rob and I got this little project together for all to see. The DRSD is mine. I got the watch from Luckyy originally, sent it to Joe for all the mods. I got the watch back and it looked awful. The bezel was so tight that you literally needed to use a pair of pliers to turn. I sent it back and Joe” fixed it” he probably dug some of the glue off the back of the bezel! I was lucky, he didn't charge me for unf***ing up his initial F**kup!! This watch was tied up with him for months through his "Illness" Which to me is totally bogus. I make my living doing Anesthesia, and I deal with asthmatics on a daily basis. Asthma is an acute illness. Most folks have "asthma attacks". I have never seen anyone in a state of Status Asmaticus for months. But this is beside the point. Joe does sub par work, advertises himself as "The expert" and charges RCS (Rolex Service Center) prices.

Just as an example I sent a genuine vintage Omega Seamaster 300 to Omega in Bienne Switzerland for an overhaul . They replaced the dial, hands, bezel, crystal, overhauled the movement, polished the case and replaced the bracelet end links , total cost 450.00 USD!!

If I had had the parts, I would have sent it to Ziggy who restored another SM300 for me, and did a beautiful job.

When I decided to send the DRSD to Ziggy, the original idea was to replace the dial with a White letter dial, replace the crown with a genuine crown/tube and clean up all of the other problems. We had quite a few emails back and forth and discussed this in great detail. I told Rob, that I would furnish all the information about what was done to the watch and the prices, just to let folks know that everyone was getting scammed. I certainly don’t mind paying a fair price for services rendered, I expect the same thing when I perform and anesthetic for surgery or obstetrics. However there is a big difference between fair prices and scam prices, especially considering the quality of work.

Lots of the minute details on my watch were unknown to me until I read Rob’s post tonight. What I was [censored] about were the obvious things like the horrible lume job that cost 150.00 Dollars!! The replacement crown/tube that was literally worse than the one that came on the watch, the “pipe wrench” tight bezel, the lug holes that don’t appear to be drilled out to the correct size, the “genuine springbars” that obviously aren’t. After looking at his detailed photos, I see lots of other things that were damaged.

I’m sure the Joe supporters on this forum are going to take offense at this thread. Well folks that’s your right and your prerogative to defend your friend. Personally, I think that he is indefensible. His work is sub par and his prices are ridiculous. It is the same as you taking your car in to be serviced, being charged 1000 dollars to replace parts and then have the car break down with the same problem on the way home. I have a very simple motto when it comes to service people, and I tell all of them who do work for me, it’s very simple. If you do a good job for a fair price, I will sing your praises and recommend you to everyone around, but if you screw me over, do shoddy work and/or overcharge, I reserve the right to tell any and all that you can not be trusted. Treat me right, I‘ll treat you right, screw me, expect to be screwed back!!

I got taken to the cleaners, which in itself is not OK, but I’m a big boy. I could have looked at the prices and told Joe, sorry but I can’t afford your work. I didn’t, because I don’t have the time or patience to do mods on watches, and I wanted too make up a really nice SeaDweller. At the time he had a monopoly on Modifications here in the USA. There are some excellent folks in Europe, but I have always been leery of sending a Rolex across the pond. Just too many potential customs problems. So Joe was the only alternative, for me.

My advice to other members, if you have the time and talent, get some tools ,read the posts on modding and do it yourself. If you don’t have time or talent, either plan to live with the flaws or buy a genuine. In retrospect, looking back at this deal, by the time it’s all said and done, I’ll probably have close to 1500 dollars in this watch!! Do you know what my alternative would have been had I been able to see into the future? A genuine vintage Tudor submariner in excellent condition for less than the 1500 dollars, and in that a watch with the potential for appreciation. So folks, don’t make the same mistake I did. Learn from my mistakes, don’t repeat them.

[panerai153]

Forgot to include this in the rather long post above. We have everything to get the watchback together except a correct bezel insert. I may be speaking out of school,because i haven't talked to Rob about the insert, butI would sure like to find a better insert for this watch.

So, does anyone have a better.more correct nsert/pearl that they would be willing to part with for this project?

thanks a lot

Arthur

[steelerfan]

Arthur,

I am truly speechless. You certainly have my sympathies.

[By-Tor]

I have talked with Ziggy privately but you all know that I'm not a guy who wants to fight on a message forum. Life is too short for that. I'm here for FUN which means the watches... only. I'm not here to take part in immature namecalling, flamewars and useless arguments. But this is about Arthur's watch who I consider one of the nicest members of the community and a real WIS. So now I say what I should have said before:

First: I have to wonder why people are willing to invest so much money on the mods in the first place. If the base watch is $400 and mods are $600... we are in the $1K range and that's completely ridiculous.

I have kept my mouth shut about Joe and his pricing all along... and I don't want to be part of a gang-inquisition, even now. Joe was always nice to me and we exchanged some watch-related general PM's in good spirit.

Never wanted to pay his prices though... BUT I always thought that if people are willing to pay such ridiculous amounts of money for mods it's not Joe's problem. That's how capitalism works in the free world, blah blah etc. But the work should be excellent then... and no excuses. And I don't understand why would anyone want to pay $60 for a bezel insert with a shitty and inaccurate pearl like that... especially when it doesn't even improve the watch.

The first time I wondered about his mods when he did Relaxman's red 1680, August 2005 in the old RWG. The crown guards looked unmodified and the pearl looked like utter crapola. And yet he charged for those mods. Here's the thread:

http://www.replica-watches-guide.com/forum...showtopic=22171

Relaxman's Sub 1680:

Yet Relaxman seemed to be very happy with the watch. Why wouldn't he... the MBW Rollies are impressive watches even at unmodified state. Relaxman is also a forum friend of mine, respected member and all that... so I kept my mouth shut and replied some polite nonsense. None of my business, I don't want to piss off people or ruin their fun and excitiment about the new watch. But back then I was wondering what was changed on that watch that actually improved the accuracy besides the smaller crown and possibly the crystal...I still do. I certainly hope he didn't pay $600 for the mods back then.

And don't come and tell me that the genuine 1680 crown guards look like that... and there's "variation"... that's just utter bs. I've seen hundreds of pictures of vintage sports line Rolexes (my father owns 2 genuine vintage Oysters) and I know what I'm talking about. In all fairness Joe has done some good cg job too... but those cg's were almost (if not completely) unmodified on Relaxman's watch.

And yes, I don't buy the asthma thing, either. Asthma shouldn't prevent him from sending the watches and money back to the real owners. Especially if he really is healthy enough to deal stuff on Ebay.

He has done some good job and made some members happy... not taking that away from him... but now he did sloppy job and he should refund the money to Arthur.

PS: Learn to use mods like crown guards yourself. I had zero experience and yet I got them very good on my first try (cost: $0)

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=12382

Or look what Sherrington accomplished. I've never seen better:

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=9461

I hope Joe comes forward now and refunds Arthur. Like I said, I don't want to be a part of any gangbanging... but fair is fair, both ways.

Edited October 6, 2006 by By-Tor

[HauteHippie]

Never wanted to pay his prices though... BUT I always thought that if people are willing to pay such ridiculous amounts of money for mods it's not Joe's problem. That's how capitalism works in the free world, blah blah etc. But the work should be excellent then... and no excuses. Installing "genuine crown" which isn't genuine is outright scamming. And I don't understand why would anyone want to pay $60 for a bezel insert with a shitty and inaccurate pearl like that... especially when it doesn't even improve the watch.

Yes that is what capitalism is all about. Joe can surely charge whatever he wants to provide a "service". The market will decide what prices are fair and what are not. If Joe truely has/had 100+ watches stacked up, then perhaps he wasn't charging enough. You can't blame Joe for his customers' poor judgement. But, posts like this are essential so that the market can make an informed decision. The $600 that once seemed reasonable to 100+ people, is now exposed as borderline fraud. If the work isn't top notch, then the value of the service will go to zero, as it has here. Part of Joe's business model seems to have been about taking advantage of ignorance. So now that people know this, I think it's fair to say Joe is OUT of business.

[By-Tor]

Let it be known that I have nothing against people charging for mods. Palpatine aged my MBW 1680 dial. He charged very fairly and did SUPERB job.

I think Joe is capable of doing good job too (I've seen some). But with those prices there shouldn't be any shortcuts... ever.

[KB]

People, as always, will need to make up their own minds.

For me the fact that Rob brought this to our attention and as we now find out it is in fact Arthur's watch is more than enough proof for me, I simply will not believe that these two upstanding members would ever launch an unfair witch hunt.

Ken

[dadog13]

@The Zigmeister hasn't put any pics of the mvt...I wonder if RBJ switched the ETA mvt for a fantastic asian 21j mvt and charged that for 150$...

[V]

I still wonder about the mental ability of the members who still send their watches to this person for mods.

and YES.. I believe all the stuff about Ilness is [censored]... but he got the story right.. you feel guilty to call a liar someone who says he is ill.

Unfotunately there are people (close to be called 'scammers') who can use whatever to take advantage of a situation.

He was sick the first time, people let him be and he kept the story going...

From my point of view he should be banned from RWG.

[jraines87]

From my point of view he should be banned from RWG.

Joe may have banned himself. He's not been on for nearly 2 months.

[jjajh]

Thanks Rob

It's never easy putting another persons failures out for people to see, but in this case it was the right thing to do.

[RWG Technical]

Thanks Rob

It's never easy putting another persons failures out for people to see, but in this case it was the right thing to do.

I agree, in my defence I have never been one to not tell it as I see it, although most of that comes from my day job...

Only reason it was posted is due to what has gone on in the past 6 months, the numerous messages of complaint I have received (guess they figured I was a good sounding board) and the fact that Arthur wanted to help others avoid the same fate...

The pictures speak for themselves, not much else to say. Guess I know what I am doing this weekend...

RG

[Tribal]

Great post The Zigmeister,

there you all can see that joe is not that kind of fantastic watch modder...

he judged every mod from the selfmakers in the past,but look at his work..

For me it's scam to take 600 $ for this work...

when you see he placed the Insert with a wrong one

Gen Tube and crown,not really...

Lume job? Ok i know its a hard job to do....

but when i don't have the crafmanship to do it correctly,than you better leave it..

All the work on the case is not good at all....

And for all people who want mods on their watches,i tell you

"attempt it by your self!

There is so much help here in the forum,tutorials etc...

When you have a problem just ask the fellow members...

You can get this Modjob,much cheaper than Joe sells...

Take your time and do it ...and you will see it makes fun and after the first attempts you get good results...

Thanks Rob for this to clarify the facts...

RG Tribal

[HauteHippie]

I would like to point out the irony in the fact that Joe's claims of IBS were bogus, and yet, he was completely full of [censored]!!!

[woody]

$40 bj is pretty cheap, oh, you meant dial bj, yeah no, that is pretty pricey. Members, be warned. I am just thinking, if the "member" still have 100+ watches with him, at $100 a pop, he has over 10 grand worth of watches. What is he doing with all that watches now that he is not doing anything with it?

[panerai153]

Fellow forum members, I would like to thank all of you who agreed with Rob and me on this topic. This was not done in haste, nor was it meant to be a character assassination of Joe. We just both felt that enough was enough. I got taken, My bad!. It’s not the first time I have made a bad decision that cost me money, and it probably won’t be the last. However, I am one who believes in the old saying, “screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me”. I’m not going to get screwed again, and I hope that this post will open the eyes of other members who are yet to be taken.

As By-Tor said in his post, Joe has done some very nice work in the past. In fact he did up a Watchmaster DRSD for me, just like this one about a year ago. His work was very nice, and the prices for almost the identical work were less than 300 dollars including the parts. I had some misgivings about this project, but I had serious seller’s remorse after getting rid of the DRSD, and I wanted another one. I suppose sometimes sentimentality trumps good sense!! My biggest problem is when I get started on a project, I often get too involved and end up spending way too much money before it’s finished. I have found out the hard way with Replicas, you will never recover the costs of upgrades, so you better be doing it because you love the watch and plan to keep it. If this one turns out good, and with Rob doing the work, I have no doubt it will, I’ll probably keep it for a while.

As far as refunding my money, I would not expect Joe to come forward and offer to refund any of it. I’m sure he will see this topic as Ziggy’s and my attempt to destroy his business. He can keep the money, I have gotten a lot more satisfaction from the postings of the other members and the hope that this topic will help new members make good sound decisions about replica watch modifications and repairs in the future.

Thanks to all

Arthur

[Chronus]

Like I said, I don't want to be a part of any gangbanging...

Unless there's a woman involved?

Ok, seriously, it is a very bad job shown in those pictures.

For close to $1000, you're better off buying a second hand Omega Seamaster Pro (Bond watch). You get the real thing without all these issues. There are other choices. Around that price or a little more will get you a Breitling Superocean. thomasng recently sold a gen Omega SMP Chrono around that prie too.

Next time you think of getting mods done, think of the total cost and if you are better off getting a genuine, and how bad you want the watch that you are getting modded (as it still won't be a genuine at the end of it!).

There's me giving advice and my 188 and 196 are at finepics for a datewheel

[rbj69]

IM GLAD TO SEE ONLY THE SAME GUYS R AT IT, AND ONLY ADDED ABOUT TWO PEOPLE THAT I THOUGHT WERE GOOD HONEST PEOPLE IN IT , BUT HERE GOES THE TRUTH, sry it took a few but i explain down below !!!

It never amazes me The Zigmeister but arthur u did suprise me but i guess some people r like that and , usually when u have a problem with someone it is customary to let him or her know about it, ok here is my defense, arthur u were one of my first tritium looking experiment dials along with another friend, funny thing was u were all happy with it when u got it other than the bezel being too tight, but the thing is ok glue seeped down from gluing the bezel in place , oh hell lets arrest me, the second time it was turning fine other than a small hang up after twelve but as i told u and thought it would correct itself and as i told u i thought it also could be the case may be off a bit where it turns cause as u forgot to tell i put u a new bezel spring ring in the second time and it was better other than the little hang up after twelve(but exagerating by saying using a pipe wrench was way off , especially when i turned it fine and loosely till it got to the twelve) but if u ever owned genuine they get where u need a pipe wrench to turn it after time anyway so u have to clean it periodically (its the way they r and yes i own genuine so that is what i go by)

the good thing is i take pictures of before and after , so therefore u can see how it looked when i got it , the scratch at 6 oclock is something i see here and there from the mbw watches, it was already there as u can see in the before pictures, as u can see it was a used looking watch cause of rust spots(that i cleaned)and such when i removed the crown tube , also the crown is not a genuine new style replacement it is a smaller one with and the tube is too on purpose ,, mr. The Zigmeister, this is how the older ones were other than they didnt have orings on the outer tube which my smaller one does for some extra waterresistance, now basically what many of my good friends and customers try to do is create more like genuine and original , and thick big crowns and tubes is not the way to go, but on the other hand if he wanted thick then as i told him before he shouldnt waste money on it and keep the bigger crown that comes on them, but higgy if u want to tell him the thicker bigger one is correct that is your choice (and selling tool i guess), from mine and many other findings and my genuine one that i own ,the smaller or should i say not so thick crown and tube is more correct !!

here u can see it is before and just taken out of the case untouched, see the mark at 6 oclock, that i was accused of scratching , (boy im glad i take before pics) also keep in mind im no newbie and i dont get accused often but when i do i have to be ready, usually it is only jealous higgy humpa, lol

heres that rust and already used look they also tried to say i did , this is how it looked when i removed his old tube as u can see it was untouched !!

now scratches on the hour hand , im guessing either two things could have happend cause they r not in my pictures and i never saw them, either during shipping which happens many times not just from me but from dealers as well, if they get bumped hard the hands can move and touch the other one and in many case i have seen the minute hand get stuck on the second hand , so again, The Zigmeister im sure u know this but im sure u r trying really hard to make is sound as if i scratched them purposely (im not guilty) but i surely would have helped correct the problem if i was asked or contacted about it , which i was not and this is the first i heard about it , so it is not on me anymore , arthur u know if u had a problem with some stuff like that , i would have done all i could to help u be happy but maybe u got conned by mr. The Zigmeister or something , i dont know but i have done past work for u and on this one u rejoiced and sang my praise when u got it , now for some reason u went mental and knowing mr. forked tongue so well im sure he had something to do with it, lmao

when i drilled those holes out they didnt look like that so i dont know what or who is trying to pull what there, but i have pictures of this watch when it left me and it didnt have knicks in it like that , as u clearly can see, when u go down a few paragraphs i explain

i think that just about covers it, other than my prices, if u dont think it is worth it then why did u do two of the same watches? that boggles me ,and i cover this down below as well, evidently u liked it good enough to do two of the same watches but now im guessing cause forked tongue probably said he can do it for this or that made u feel u overpaid, keep in mind i dont use tools from the 60's like humpy , i have to pay for my tools and i use the best, i also have to pay for parts , like genuine tropic 39, bezel inserts, bits, crowns, tubes, gaskets,springs, springbars, compression rings, dials, grease, oils, sanders, buffing supplies, diamond bits, etc. i basically get paid 40 bucks an hour or by the job, i give all a break down on things and u have a choice, i feel i do the best work for the money and if u dont then, dont send me three watches and [censored] about one months later after u get with someone like my only jealous enemy, --- this is funny to me,(and i wasnt going to say anything but again the stretching of the truth is out) u say now u will have 1500 in the watch, so lets do the math, u paid me 450 or 485 for my end, u paid lucky 350 or 380 on his end , then this must mean u paid the MAD FRENCHMAN $635 BUCKS or more , correct? , now who is paying too much again? shouldnt this thread be titled for The Zigmeister cause he is the one charging over 600 bucks ? (my point is clearly there is no truth here again period?

arthur another thing dont bring me being sick into this equation, its really now none of your business, and if u read and knew everything , then u would know asthma wasnt my only problem , i didnt know asthma and numbing pregnant women coincided, lmao, even though that wasnt my main problem anyhow, lmao

Point is Arthur, u never had any problem with the watch other than the bezel being too tight till u got with higgyhumba, and higgy if i took 1000 times magnificated pictures of all your work (actually with your work i could only take 100 times to prove my point) and especially your lume work, it would look like [censored] , but if u take pics of what the eye can see it doesnt look so bad now does it,? point is and lume work, yours and mine or whoevers will under a microscope look like it has been done by hand , funny thing is u have even said this your self but u r going to try and make me look bad , lmao u beat all frenchie , and as for the sheen u put on that lume i have to hand it to u (if u look at my after pics u will see it looks nothing like u dramatized it to be, im also thinking u did a little doctoring of the pics as well, (the difference in my pics is u can see i take it as it is and how it looks in real life , u r a great photshop user but a poor human being in my book

-as u can see the lume looks pretty darn great, now those pics u r showing dont look exactly like this piece im showing and this is arthurs watch, i have emails i can foward with these same pics to prove it(also note those crown guard scratches r not there in my pictures, care to explain hicky hempa ?

man those lugholes look good to me, (ive only been doing them for two years now) u beat all higgy, i think u put those scars on there or either arthur did removing pins or something but not me is for sure, also one more thing arthur u didnt pay me 600 bucks for this work if u did u would have gotten a genuine tropic 39 , talk about stretching the truth, u guys kill me , if u going to try and catch someone in doing wrong then why not tell the whole truth , dont u guys know this is the internet and it is based on facts and u should know by now higggy i cover my basis from idiots like u , sad to have to but with u around i have to be extra careful , funny thing is i never try to hang u i just let u hang yourself , havent u learned that by now u idiot, lmao

and for all my friends and customers, dont worry it is another attempt jealous attempt of higgy and i still do the great work u have all been accustomed to , it has been a bit slower only because of the three months i was sick but im getting there , dont u worry , and u know i am a man of my word as i always have been and im not going anywhere, i just right now dont have time to hang out until i get all caught up, also some people that didnt read, please only contact me via email jbuttspsu@earthlink.net , for now i dont have time to answer pms , and jump around the forums, unlike higgy im busy working , lol

ALL IN ALL IM GLAD THIS CAME OUT , CAUSE I BET THEY DIDNT THINK I HAD PICS OF IT BEFORE AND AFTER, LIKE ALL MY WORK , AT LEAST EVERYONE SEES WHO THE SUPERIMPOSER IS AND WHO THE INSTIGATOR IS , AND WHO ALWAYS TRIES TO BEAT A MAN WHILE HE IS AWAY A BIT, FUNNY THING IS U HUNG YOURSELF IDIOT!!!!!(let this be a lesson for us all , there r bitter people in this world that will go to any length out of sheer jealousy to knock a good man down, but as the saying goes u cant knock a good man down, higgy havent i taught u anything? my snide little frenchman)ps. another thing i just saw and read that brings back memories, "im just a messenger" i like how u say that after u inflate the details, also i know u didnt think of this but maybe u should have asked me for my details and prices before u started lieing, most everybody has a copy of it and the things like u say i said r flat out lies and have never been written by me , i thought u were smarter than that, those smooth talking words of yours cant get u but so far, facts r facts my friend and dont forget it !!!!!!

now i have to go back to work , im glad some of my good friends told me about this thread, and i thank u all for giving me the opportunity to show and tell my side , i know im not a great writer or typer but i think u can at least see the truth in the pics i provided and im sure there is a computer geek out there that can tell when my pics were taken and that they have not been altered one bit !!!