Would you call it a SCAM (attempt)?

[wiesn089]

This is ridiculous, you obviously aren't very knowledgable concerning watch movements ("we are talking gen Tag here, not Valjoux 7750") yet call out "franken" movements based on screw colour and decoration which does look perfectly normal.

[sempire]

[redwatch]

You got your movement refund. Leave it at that and quit now. Pursuing this any further is clearly not going to turn out very well for you.

[Dave123]

This thread should not have been put up on the forum.

[_brian_]

This is ridiculous, you obviously aren't very knowledgable concerning watch movements ("we are talking gen Tag here, not Valjoux 7750") yet call out "franken" movements based on screw colour and decoration which does look perfectly normal.

Please show me a picture of a genuine Tag Heuer with a Calibre 16 movement, where the finish matches to the movement a received. It might be an eta movement, but not one, which is used by Tag Heuer as Calibre 16. I also contacted gen owners about this in order to make sure and even visited gen forums. Asking TH "experts", I had conversations like this:

"As I mentioned the movement was sold to me as "genuine TAG HEUER Calibre 16" - however it was clearly not a Tag Heuer!

"Yes, i understand and that is a very good point, in that case it was not a calibre 16, because they do not use the COSC movement for that model."

BTW I can provide anyone the nick of the forum member I'm referring too.

[kbh]

Just curious Brian, how much did this movement cost you? Apparently there is no question that it's not a gen ETA 7750.

As far as I know,there's not a lot of people that go around making up replica Tag Cal 16 movements out of gen ETA 7750's to rip off unsuspecting rep buyers. Sounds like a first in my years of dealing with reps.

I'm glad that I mostly play with Rolex reps. One thing about Rolex is nothing can be taken for granted. They seem to use whatever is laying in the old parts bin to make the last run of most of their watches.

Edited July 29, 2011 by kbh

[Ronin]

OMFG!

Can you simply say VARIANCE in manufacturing!

Maybe TH was making Rotors one way for 4 months, then changed mid-stream. Maybe their machine that machines the rotor broke, and they outsourced a few. Maybe the ETA 7750 "Kits" supplied to TH for their in-house finishing contained blue screws during the 10th month of the year.

Christ, go look at Gen Rolex dials from one quarter of 1972 and the last quarter of 1972. One has R O LEX, and one has ROLEX.

Would you take your car back because one has red spark plug wires, and the other one you saw on the lot has black?

At the end of the day, isn't the rest of the watch still a REPLICA?

[z80]

Is it also possible that this movement was serviced and the screws replaced if say they got scratched.. or maybe the guy had several apart and put the wrong ones back in.. If I repair a IBM notebook and accidentally put in a Toshiba screw, the notebook is still an IBM. Hey, maybe a bad analogy, but it's all I've got.

[panerai153]

I cannot believe thus thread!!!! First off, why in the world would you ever take a problem with a member here to another forum. Do you think those guys over there have any influence here. Second, the member you are for all intents and purposes slandering, is a very well respected and trusted member of this forum. I don't think they would have made him a moderator if there was a scintilla of doubt about his honesty, integrity and knowledge.

You obviously don't know squat about genuine movements. If you go back through the past 50 years of watchmaking history, you will see that every manufacturer of "mass produced" watches, had endless variations within a model run. If you don't believe me, take yourself over to the Vintage Rolex forum and read some of the discussions there about variations within a model. I can tell you from personal experience with Doxa watches, from the 1970's and 80's that the company used whatever was at hand to finish out a model run. Do you seriously think that because a company introduces a new model, they throw away all the old parts? NO they don't, they are used up before the new stuff gets used. What you are basing your entire argument on is the appearance of two blued Screws and a rotor that doesn't look like your photo. Come on, how many rotor patterns do you think Tag used over the lifetime of that movement? As far as the screws, how many times has the movement been torn down and serviced? Would it not be feasible that a watchmaker changed the screws for some reason?

As far as the labor, I believe that Andy is perfectly within his rights to charge you for labor. After all he used his valuable time to work on your watch, didn't he? He performed the work exactly as you requested, and then you weren't happy with the results. I can promise you, all crafts people work that way. If I take my car into a repair shop to have the brakes worked on, and they change the master cylinder, but the brakes still aren't right, and they then have to change the slave cylinders to fix the problem do you think that are going to take the new master cylinder out and put my old one back in even if it's perfectly good? NO they aren't they are going to charge me for parts and labor on everything they put in.

I believe the moderators here have been exceedingly patient with you and allowed you to carry this thread way past the point of reason. If it were me I would have locked it and given you a warning. If that didn't suffuice, then, you know the next step.

[AstroAvia]

also from ciborgmans post

A non chronometer non decoarated cal 16

I am sorry to see this thread, but allow me to ask why the movement above is not a chronometer. I see all the hardware for the chronograph functions! Are you referring to chronometer versus chronograph?

[Stephane]

Unbelievable.

So now we decide by comparing pictures on the internet what is genuine and what isn't, based on nothing more than the colour of a screw and the "finish" on the return spring. Guess the fact that screws can be any colour and that depending on the photographer, lighting, angle, etc, metal parts look very different.

Add another to the banned list...

In the 6 years I have been on RWG, this is by far the worse case of slander and abuse of a long time trusted memeber I have ever seen, I am totally appalled at this post, simply disgusting.

I was wondering if I should come here as I am a team member.

After Zig's reply, I'm coming because what Zig writes is summarising what this is all about.

So +1

About Andy, who I do know personnaly, it's even pointless to remember his background and honesty.

If I had to be in deep shit somewhere in the jungle or desert on this planet, I would love to have him on my side as I know he would carry me on his back and walk hundreds kilometers to find a hospital.

This is who is Andy.

Mr Brian, you're nothing else but a nasty little boy who wants something but can't get it.

So you come here to find it and ask Dad to get one.

Dad finds one for you but the colour doesn't match your dream...and you start stomping your feet on the ground!

As others said: you just made a fool out of yourself.

100% of the posts in this thread are pointing a fact: you don't know what you're talking about.

You do not deserve so much attention and certainly don't deserve to be part of this forum.

Stephane, the member, not the moderator.

[www_watch]

I loved the old days.

When we were competing in IASCA back then there was the tear-down rule.

Any competitor who accused another one of cheating had to pay a deposit with the judges.

They then checked the car and sometimes the tear-down was carried out.

If the competitor was found to be cheating, the money was paid back to the one calling him out.

If not... the dough belonged to the accused member for him to pay for any inconvenience

he might have had while being falsely accused.

If rules like that would be practicable in the virtual world,

we might have fewer threads like this one here.

[Rolexman]

Let's put this thread to rest. You can't do a dialog on movements with someone that has the IQ of a retard. This really is sad. Like talking to a turtle or something...

[Nanuq]

Let me add to what Stephane posted, also as a member, not as an Admin.

(removes Admin hat)

I have a Rolex 6536 that's 58 years old. I had the incredible good fortune of having Ziggy fix my dial, removing decades of crap and recreating lume dots exactly like the originals. By _brian_ standards, this is no longer a gen watch.

I also have a 1940s pre-Breitling Navitimer with a v72c movement. A staff was broken in the movement, and again Ziggy was willing to take on the project. He did not just replace some blued screws, he found a wheel and staff from another variant of the v72c movement and installed it. Unfortunately that made the movement operate slightly different but it's fixed and working again. But by _brian_ standards this is not a gen watch anymore.

I have a 1963 Rolex GMT in absolutely original condition, except somewhere in its past, someone replaced the original dial with an extremely rare "radial" dial, also from the Rolex factory. By _brian_ standards this watch is now a pathetic piece of crap, not a gen, because one part is not like all the other vintage GMTs out there.

I have a Rolex 1680 and I had the crystal replaced with another genuine Rolex crystal, but it has a bevel around its top perimeter. It's a genuine Rolex crystal and it's just like 1,000 other 1680s out there but by _brian_ standards it is no longer a genuine Rolex because a part was replaced with another equally acceptable part. A part from Rolex.

I have a vintage Land Rover with new body panels. They were custom fabricated and are not Land Rover parts. Unfortunately, by _brian_ standards it is now no longer a Land Rover. Maybe it's a Jeep?

I don't know if you can understand the point I'm making here _brian_ but when I change a meaningless part of my genuine piece with something functionally identical, even though it looks different it does not remove its "gen" status.

I think you have some apologizing to do, for dragging this good man's name out here in public and impugning his character. And, I really don't care what you say in reply. Your opinions and expertise mean less than zero to me now.

Okay I'm done. Putting my Admin hat back on now.

_Brian_ this place exists to share watch information and expose scammers, while pointing out who the good guys are. You made your case for FXR being a scammer and it was thoroughly shot full of holes. We have all learned something here today, and have been reminded of some things. I hope you have learned some things too.

I don't personally believe this is a ban-able error but damn, you're on thin ice. Take some time to think hard about this, and the way you handled it, before you post on RWG again.