ispytonyv Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Totally disagree... A joke's a joke, this one clearly crossed a line and didn't quite fly, but so what? No one was saying "check out my new 'lex, I'm teh awesome!" No one was saying "who wants to buy this super-rare edition?" and naming a price. While there are some who say it's bad that gen owners know how good reps can be, I actually think it's good that they see watches looking identical to theirs which were a fraction of the cost. Let's not forget here, that Freddy's watches are built from genuine parts. They are as 'real' as the watches the gen owners circlejerk over, the only difference being that he has the skill to build his himself, all they can do, is slap down a credit card... anyone can do that I think it's good that it puts their noses out of joint and knocks them off their pedestals, it lets them know that not just people with fat wallets can have nice stuff too. If there's one trait I really cannot stand in others, it is elitism, and I'm never sorry to see an elitist put in their place. If that makes me a bad person, so be it, I'll get my comeuppance when the Lord feels it's my time One man's joke is another's "hey let's see if we can make those guys look like chumps" so I guess to each his own in terms of interpretation... certainly clear how they took it (which absolutely should have been expected). Don't get me wrong, I also agree with the assessment of the skill / knowledge of members here, and that members there are often poor sports. Those two points I actually tried to make in a (first) post over there which was never approved by the Mods. Regardless, I still think it was foolish not to see this train wreck coming, and my main gripe is that (knowing their disdainful view of reps & even frankens) this was bound to reflect poorly. I'd have much rather Freddy's piece get posted and instead of "discovered" just stated what it was. Instead of deceit, a proud declaration. They might have turned up noses just the same but at least it would be honest. Just my 2¢ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 One man's joke is another's "hey let's see if we can make those guys look like chumps" so I guess to each his own in terms of interpretation... certainly clear how they took it (which absolutely should have been expected). Don't get me wrong, I also agree with the assessment of the skill / knowledge of members here, and that members there are often poor sports. Those two points I actually tried to make in a (first) post over there which was never approved by the Mods. Regardless, I still think it was foolish not to see this train wreck coming, and my main gripe is that (knowing their disdainful view of reps & even frankens) this was bound to reflect poorly. I'd have much rather Freddy's piece get posted and instead of "discovered" just stated what it was. Instead of deceit, a proud declaration. They might have turned up noses just the same but at least it would be honest. Just my 2¢ Ahh, I see what you mean, and yes, I guess had another member of that forum genuinely found said photos online and posted them for discussion, it would have been a different matter. I just think that as there was no true attempt to deceive (beyond the mechanics of the prank itself), it's very different to a n00b posting their BK Sub, and then soliciting opinion on a watch which they know is fake. It's a bit like someone posted the other week about how they would take their arriving reps into ADs, so they could be told that the watch was real. I don't get that at all... Pulling a prank is one thing, but setting out to intentionally deceive (with no payout other than hollow praise), I can't understand that mindset at all, and I honestly don't see what Nanuq did here as coming into that latter catagory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I dident like that they posted a link to our house but everyone know we are here right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimster Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Yes that is against forum rules. And every part of Freddy's watches is genuine. So....... is it a replica? In my mind, no more than my vintage Land Rover, with every piece from the front bumper to the back replaced with genuine Rover parts, or aftermarket if no more parts are available. So, it's a gen but not a numbers match watch. This happens in vintage auto work all the time. If it's a numbers matched it brings more money but no one complains about the aftermarket parts on a collector car or the fact that the engine (movement) is not gen to the car. it just commands a lower price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I just want to see whether they throw Nanuq off of that forum now that he is a confirmed rep owner, poster and even a leader of one of the largest fake sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Doh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 WM, I'm sure it's just a matter of time. But really it doesn't matter to me, there's not a lot of real discussion over there of what matters to me in watch collecting. I want to know how it was built, and why. I really don't care so much what it looks like. So was this a joke, or a prank? No. I posted a picture of a genuine Pan-Am "albino" 6542 that I happened to know existed. I'm sure the debate will rage for all eternity over whether it's genuine. Refer back to the other guy last week that posted his new 6542 with the non-original steel insert... that was received with open arms. If that's the only part of Freddy's watch that's not original, then it too deserves the same accolades. Yes I pull pranks, over here. On gen fora I love a good joke but I never deceive people. They're cut from different fabric. Most of them are far too serious and identify "who" they are by what they own. That kind of person rarely suffers fools so it's stupid to act a fool. So now I'm going to go put a voltage regulator from a Morris Minor on my $12,000 vintage Land Rover, and be proud of the fact that it still works as well as new. And that it's a real Land Rover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 WM, I'm sure it's just a matter of time. But really it doesn't matter to me, there's not a lot of real discussion over there of what matters to me in watch collecting. I want to know how it was built, and why. I really don't care so much what it looks like. So was this a joke, or a prank? No. I posted a picture of a genuine Pan-Am "albino" 6542 that I happened to know existed. I'm sure the debate will rage for all eternity over whether it's genuine. Refer back to the other guy last week that posted his new 6542 with the non-original steel insert... that was received with open arms. If that's the only part of Freddy's watch that's not original, then it too deserves the same accolades. Yes I pull pranks, over here. On gen fora I love a good joke but I never deceive people. They're cut from different fabric. Most of them are far too serious and identify "who" they are by what they own. That kind of person rarely suffers fools so it's stupid to act a fool. So now I'm going to go put a voltage regulator from a Morris Minor on my $12,000 vintage Land Rover, and be proud of the fact that it still works as well as new. And that it's a real Land Rover. I think there's a difference between folks who don't suffer fools gladly, and uptight humorless souls who don't know how to take a joke with good grace To me, folks who judge people by what they own, they're too judgemental and narrowminded to be anyone I'd want to consider a friend. It's like if someone was to judge me as being a scumbag for having tattoos, likewise, they're not someone I would want to be friends with I'm actually working on a backstory for a rep project that it is definitely going to take a good sense of humor to appreciate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimster Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Tee Jay, Are those tattoos reps, frankens, or gens? If they're not gens, no posting on VRF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think that, ultimately, it was a snarky thing for us to do. Well, at least the way it was done. But, considering that the OP of that thread inquired about white '42s, it seemed logical for someone to toss my watch into the ring. And, again, for those who just tuned-in, my '42 is all gen except for the insert. Yes, I repainted the (gen) dial white instead of its original black, but the watch is certainly not a replica, so no rules were broken (Phase 1 '42 at right) It should also be noted that many of the senior members of gen forums routinely have their watches serviced by indy watchsmiths (Bob Ridley, Michael Young, etc), who must often swap defective parts for used or aftermarket parts, which, by definition, results in a Frankenstein watch. Had my watch been assembled by Bob Ridley, none of these gords would ever dare utter a discouraging word or complain that the pics were posted by someone affiliated with RWG. But because it was an RWG member that performed the same work, it gets some gen owners' (& those two-faced, double-agents) panties in a whirl. Bottom line - it was a well intentioned idea that probably should have been handled differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Tee Jay, Are those tattoos reps, frankens, or gens? If they're not gens, no posting on VRF! All gen so far, but joking aside, I have copied designs by Shinji and Chris Garver into stencils which I will be having done, so I guess they could count as rep tattoos I think that, ultimately, it was a snarky thing for us to do. Well, at least the way it was done. But, considering that the OP of that thread inquired about white '42s, it seemed logical for someone to toss my watch into the ring. And, again, for those who just tuned-in, my '42 is all gen except for the insert. Yes, I repainted the (gen) dial white instead of its original black, but the watch is certainly not a replica, so no rules were broken (Phase 1 '42 at right) It should also be noted that many of the senior members of gen forums routinely have their watches serviced by indy watchsmiths (Bob Ridley, Michael Young, etc), who must often swap defective parts for used or aftermarket parts, which, by definition, results in a Frankenstein watch. Had my watch been assembled by Bob Ridley, none of these gords would ever dare utter a discouraging word or complain that the pics were posted by someone affiliated with RWG. But because it was an RWG member that performed the same work, it gets some gen owners' (& those two-faced, double-agents) panties in a whirl. Bottom line - it was a well intentioned idea that probably should have been handled differently. Snarky, maybe, but still certainly within the context of the discussion, so not outside the bounds of good taste for those who could appreciate the watch for what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 The whole thing was very interesting and an eye opener for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 It should also be noted that many of the senior members of gen forums routinely have their watches serviced by indy watchsmiths (Bob Ridley, Michael Young, etc), who must often swap defective parts for used or aftermarket parts, which, by definition, results in a Frankenstein watch. Had my watch been assembled by Bob Ridley, none of these gords would ever dare utter a discouraging word or complain that the pics were posted by someone affiliated with RWG. But because it was an RWG member that performed the same work, it gets some gen owners' (& those two-faced, double-agents) panties in a whirl. Bottom line - it was a well intentioned idea that probably should have been handled differently. Excellent point. Also, in all seriousness, all the parts, dials, cases, etc, that are listed for sale on VRF/TRF -- where do those guys REALLY think they are going? Are there REALLY that many people / GEN owners buying 5513 dials to swap with theirs? If you wait long enough, you can buy every part you need to construct a GEN watch. How is that bad? I bet the majority of 1665 DRSD out there are "build up's". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I missed the funniest part of this. The Albino was all gen except the dial was reprinted from black to white? That is too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gplracer Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Freddy was the case gen as well? It is an excellent watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I missed the funniest part of this. The Albino was all gen except the dial was reprinted from black to white? That is too funny. Funny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Funny meaning you showed a watch which is basically gen except you redid the critical dial which is what has everyone foaming at the mouth. The watch is gorgeous but everyone is focused on the one element which is fake. Am I missing something? I could tell you similar stories about legendary Daytona dials which have been discussed ad nauseum on the gen forums and I know the guy who made the custom redials. But that is neither hear nor there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I get the valuation differences between repainted vs original dials, but you said 'everyone is focused on the one element which is fake' & the dial is not 'fake' by any means. Or am I reading you wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I think, in the end, WE are all reading to much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I get the valuation differences between repainted vs original dials, but you said 'everyone is focused on the one element which is fake' & the dial is not 'fake' by any means. Or am I reading you wrong? I may be reading it wrong. I thought you took a black dial and repainted it white and lo and behold - the Albino. I have nothing bad to say about the watch. It is gorgeous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I thought you took a black dial and repainted it white I did & maybe you are confusing my Phase 1 (a rep turned franken) watch with Phase II (all gen (& partially NOS) except the insert)? In the case of the Phase II watch (which is the 1 under consideration here), I took a gen, water-damaged 6542 dial (black) & had it repainted (white & by the same people who restore dials for Rolex USA). In that context, referring to the dial or watch as being 'fake', especially coming from someone who I know knows the difference (you), did not seem correct (or funny). Again, maybe just a bit of confusion all around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Not trying to be offensive. Forget everything I said. I know it is an all gen watch and it is stunning. My point is that you take a $15k equivalent watch, repaint the dial and you have a $115k watch. And that is what everyone focuses on - the one part that is altered. Does that make more sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 So painting the Mona Lisa over a true Da Vinci bed sheet makes it just as good as the real thing? I don't get it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Not trying to be offensive. Forget everything I said. I know it is an all gen watch and it is stunning. My point is that you take a $15k equivalent watch, repaint the dial and you have a $115k watch. And that is what everyone focuses on - the one part that is altered. Does that make more sense? Perfectly. But my only concern was whether the word 'fake' was appropriate when referring to a repainted gen dial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Perfectly. But my only concern was whether the word 'fake' was appropriate when referring to a repainted gen dial? If refinished by THE factory authorized person Rolex commissioned to refinish dials, then it cannot, in any way, be a "fake". It is a factory authorized replacement dial. Rolex themselves installed replacement dials and inserts in 6542s back in the 1950s, and those watches are considered genuine by the Rolex factory, Authorized dealers, watchmakers and all the fan clubs. The only part of your watch that is not factory authorized is the replica insert, which is not "fake" either. It is a replacement authorized by Law. And besides, I like the exclusivity of having made the only non-authorized Rolex part of your watch! It's how I roll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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