chris5264 Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Ok,,,know this sounds strange,,,,sure people will just say..ok..don't buy them but I just don't get it. just had a 005 and a 390 pam...now these were pretty high end things..only an expert could tell they were reps....sure they would have lasted a while....sure there were small issues...but even my two gen pams have issues..Every watch is like a person...it will have issues. So here is a list.. first rgw is a great place reps or not...so that isn't an issue. 1. perhaps it is just that every piece of art must be signed? Perhaps it is the connection with the watchmaker that is lost with a rep? 2. Perhaps it is something trying to be what it isn't? I don't seem to mind the homage vintage pam that is on my wrist right now. On the other hand...everything in the universe plays a game of not being what it is...so...in that sense a rep is the most nature thing in the cosmos. 3. It could be an over all..quality issue. that is,,,,a focus on appearance rather than mechanical quality. I mean. things like wr, the functional aspects of the crown guard, the movement are all cut back to keep the prices down 4. perhaps its just that I know...I mean...I would never run into someone who would care or know the difference. 5...something else? don't take this the wrong way..I'm just trying to figure out why? I know some people on the gen forums and black and white...but I really like it here...I want to own and wear a few reps...but just can't.. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Yep I hear ya. And after awhile when you get the gen you look at it on your wrist and can't shake the inner knowledge that it's a rep, even though it's gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 I would suggest RWG....much better than rgw,. That might be the problem right there. Relax and wear whatever It is you feel comfortable wearing. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartDoc Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 1. perhaps it is just that every piece of art must be signed? Perhaps it is the connection with the watchmaker that is lost with a rep? Hmmm, I'm wearing a gen Tag right now. I know for a fact it is mass produced. It has no connection with any watchmaker. I've sorta connected with the watch but plan to switch it out for Breitling aerospace. 2. Perhaps it is something trying to be what it isn't? I don't seem to mind the homage vintage pam that is on my wrist right now. On the other hand...everything in the universe plays a game of not being what it is...so...in that sense a rep is the most nature thing in the cosmos. Lets me count how many sub fakes,reps, homages or whatever you want to call it is out there. 3. It could be an over all..quality issue. that is,,,,a focus on appearance rather than mechanical quality. I mean. things like wr, the functional aspects of the crown guard, the movement are all cut back to keep the prices down I have some reps that have awesome quality that would kick an lower end gen butt. I remember when they said asian watches were inferior to swiss made watches. Then Tag (I think) got caught using seiko movements I'll take a grand seiko over most middle level watches including a rolex. 4. perhaps its just that I know...I mean...I would never run into someone who would care or know the difference. What is someone sold you a gen at a really awesome price. Then you find out later it has a rep movement. Do you trash it our keep on wear it as you did before. Because in reality its the same freakin watch. 5...something else? don't take this the wrong way..I'm just trying to figure out why? I know some people on the gen forums and black and white...but I really like it here...I want to own and wear a few reps...but just can't.. . I have put my rep watches into three areas - 1) Nice design, wear as disposable , flip when tired of them watches, 2) Really nicely made reps will keep them as long as possible (sleven, ploprof, franken snowflake). 3) Try the rep before I buy the gen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted December 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 What is someone sold you a gen at a really awesome price. Then you find out later it has a rep movement. Do you trash it our keep on wear it as you did before. Because in reality its the same freakin watch. yes,,,there really is something to this,,,,no I don't think I would toss it....and when a rep movement vs. a gen one might really ask what the difference is...what about a rep that was redone by a well know watchmaker..... in a way we are all reps....from our cells to who we think we are...we wake up each morning,,,and based on a brain with certain memories,,,and a body that looks as it did yesterday....replicate our sense of self into being....reps are, more a rule in nature than an exception.... so,,,,they have that going for them.. I have put my rep watches into three areas - 1) Nice design, wear as disposable , flip when tired of them watches, 2) Really nicely made reps will keep them as long as possible (sleven, ploprof, franken snowflake). 3) Try the rep before I buy the gen. Yes to this also...always good to buy a rep first....but still not sure why I can just stay with the rep...save tons of money...or give away what Isave to a good cause rather....but here I am with two way too expense gens... and no reps other than what nature gave me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
If you see Kay Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Yes, I have gens Omegas and Rollies, and reps of them as well (different watch though). There is something different about wearing a gen over a rep. It's not that connection to the watchmaker or anything like that, but it is an undefined feeling. Something about gen wearing overtakes your impressions of the watch itself. My gens will be passed down to my kids one day, but my reps are for everyday wearing and essentially "disposable". I guess that in itself is the appeal to gens. It is something to be cherished, rather than to be used. Edited December 4, 2012 by If you see Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtiis Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I have the same feeling... but I think it stems not from the watch itself but from my head. As I posted earlier - I have an A7750 unmodified from 6 years ago I thought was just OK - now, I know she's running 6 sec/day off... not many of my gens would be doing that 6 years later. So the reps -... or at least SOME reps - a darn good... but... it's nice looking down sometimes and knowin'... it's the REAL deal instead of a real DEAL (as in bargain). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmtlover Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 rep or gen, it's just a name. If rolex would make a new watch tomorrow, without anyone knowing, and put another not existing brand-name on it and sold the piece for what the costs actually are without the rolex margin, then everybody would say that brand is just not up to a rolex, but in fact it is. When quality is exactly the same or approaches the gen, then well your are just paying for a name. And then some say it is the feeling that is different when wearing a gen compared to a rep, well that's just something you create in your head and is there because of all the brand recognition you grew up with. Why is one brand more popular then other brands in some countries, because marketing develops that. Same thing goes for reps. Look at how far someone as TC has come. The quality of his reps are amazing, but people are still saying well it's not yet the holy grail. Why? because it doesn't match the original product for 100% but maybe 97,5%. But if you just look at the rep like TC's and see what effort has gone in there and how high the quality is, is it then still an inferior watch or do you just have to look at the watch and judge it on his own and respect the quality you buy for the price you pay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramerica2 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 There is a reason why many of the rep lovers also buy gens. I know that I only buy a gen that I can enjoy it's "non-replicable" attributes: It could be the amazing quality of the 8500 PO case, bezel, dial and much more important - the movement that I enjoy both it's amazing specs and it's stunning beauty, and it could be the history and class of the speedmaster, that a rep won't do (at least for me). With reps I enjoy different things: Value, the amazing copying capabilities, their looks, etc.... It would mostly be reps of watches that I can't (or not willing to) afford their gens or reps of watches that I don't think their gens have special value beside their looks (like the SOSF - beautiful, but overpriced considering it's nothing more than an ETA movement). So, I try to enjoy reps as much as possible, but every now and then, comes a gen that I'm willing to buy and going to enjoy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I've got to be honest here guys, I have a few gens and a few more reps in the box, does it matter to me if I wear one or the other.....not really, the real difference is how I view the piece itself tbh Wearing my Tc Sub I know that 99% of people won't know either way if its Gen or not, but how many people I meet during the day will even notice that I have a Rolex on my arm, not many and if they do would they really care or would it even cross their minds that it could be a rep? I really do think that as rep collectors we over think the whole Gen vs Rep scenario, most people couldn't give 2 shits what you are wearing only we do! The only difference I have when I wear a Gen instead of a rep (especially my Smp) is that I bloody bang it into something every time.....guaranteed as for the watchmaker and connecting with him through a piece that has been made along with thousands of others, I think that's rubbish and is in your own mind, in saying that, if it makes you feel good go for it.........life's to short! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I think that there are a great many of us here who are somewhat ambivalent about reps. most of us who are have a mixture of gens and reps. I sort of wax and wane as regards to reps.I enjoy the vintage reps, have pretty much no use for contemporary reps.I have two, a modded GMTIIc which gets a fair amount of wear and a Ulysses Nardin Black Surf, very nice watch keeps good time, but I hardly wear it. I pretty much keep it because it's an "el cheapo" and it's probably not worth the trouble of taking a bunch of photos and posting it on the forum. On the other hand, i have a handful of gens that get very little wrist time either. Probably one of the things that worries folks the most about reps, is being caught up in that dreadful scene when you and your watch are noticed by someone who happens to be knowledgeable about the brand/model that you are wearing. No one wants to suffer the embarrassment of being called out in public. And while I believe the chances of that are almost nil, it still is something that some folks cannot get out of their minds. For folks who are not comfortable with wearing their reps out the house, the only answer is either homage watches or gens. Personally, I have never really worries about what I'm wearing or where I'm wearing it. I have regularly worn my DRSD 1665 into Rolex stores, It's pretty much genuine except for the case, so it would withstand the scrutiny of all but the highest trained vintage Rolex person. What folks need to understand, 999.9% of the time, not only will the folks around you not have a clue as to what your watch is, they don't give a damn! AFA the quality of genuine watches over reps, I believe that is debatable to a point. A good quality ,modded rep with a serviced Swiss ETA movement is going to be as accurate or even more accurate than gens. After all, the motor is what drives the watch, and the ETA is found in probably 95% of the current mid range mechanical watches. Even some of the "house" movements are ETA based with in house embellishments. My rep collection is primarily composed of watches that I cannot afford, or watches that I can afford, but would prefer to invest the money in something else. All of my vintage reps are pretty highly modded and I believe that most of them could stand up to scrutiny, not that I worry about that much. It's pretty evident that while some folks like the concept of reps, they just cannot get into a comfort zone while wearing them. And when you boil it all down I believe that all rhetoric aside, it's a matter of comfort. Do you feel comfortable and confident when you are out in public wearing a rep, or you feeling conspicuous and feel like you need to keep your watch under your sleeve or take your watch off and put it in your pocket? If you are one of those folks who take your watch off and put it in your pocket before you go into a watch store, AD or jewelry store, probably best to stick to gens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansmeier Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I feel very comfortable wearing reps in public! I wear them with pride - pride of "successful hunting" the rep, not being scammed by fake-sites on the web etc. All my friends and also my team at work know about my hobby, all were very doubtful when I placed my first order at a TD, and all were very surprised that everything went smooth, and I received my rep, imported directly from China to an EU-country with strict customs. And also all were also surprised and impressed about the quality of the watch for a few bucks! The "rep-world" is a hidden world for most normal people, and they listen to my stories (about my experiences in getting the watches) with great interest. By the way: a friend of me owns the exact same model of my first rep (black Navitimer with leather strap), and it was he that was most interested: I had to come to him immediately after delivery of my watch, for a side by side comparison.. PS: he could not believe how good the rep is... And for sure the Navitimer is NOT one of the best reps out there regarding to accuracy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rower Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Simply it is very similar to this: some guys like fake boobs...some do not. It's a matter of what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 interesting...don't care much for fake boobs...but what would a homage boob look like? I do have a dievas pam homage and don't mind this at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) You know what bugs me? Paying a shitload of money for something that is worth 10% of what's asked for it. Let's get real for a sec here. I love watches like the next guy, but aren't we getting carried away with the whole gen issue? I mean, no matter how much money you have, or are able to spend, aren't there better causes to spend your money on? People are dying of hunger all over the world, for god's sake, and we are talking about spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a glorified man jewelry? C'mon! And seriously, what is the difference between a gen and a rep? The design? Nope. The actual movement? Come on, who cares?! You are talking about the lost connection to the watch making? You are absolutely right. But that connection was lost by the Swiss companies as well, mass-producing the same designs with standard off-the-shelf movements and selling guys like us an illusion of craftsmanship and tradition, which in reality are swallowed by a cleaver, but faceless marketing machine. Connection to the watch making you say? Try finding a watch smith in your area. If it's not a 80 year old dude who takes care of watch once a month and switching batteries on DKNY pieces of cr@p, I'll cut my arm off. The modern "watchmakers" are no more than a simple paycheck workers for huge money making machines, who's connection to art or craftsmanship is lost forever. What's the difference between them and some sweetshop chinese guy in Xian? The shiny white costume they wear to work? I love watches. So next time I feel like spending some green on a beautiful man toy worth 10000 I'll email Andrew or Josh and get it for 358 + shipping and spend the rest of my hard earned cash on buying my kids a freaken truck of books and take them to a vacation in the freaken Amazon (not the dot-com), so they could see birds and an occasional jaguar, and not think it was a car. Edit: /rant's over Edited December 4, 2012 by Adeodatus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdivad Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 mate... you think to friggin' much: Negatives of buying a gen: 1. all the known watch companies spend a gazillion dollars of their profits to market their product so they can capture more customers... That's the money that YOU spent buying THEIR product 2. Do you really thing they give a rat's backside whether you are their customer or not? (answer is an unequivocal NO) 3. You are lining only the pockets of the top management of these companies Positives of buying a gen: 1. You are funding further development of the company, and driving innovation in the watch making industry (and these new developments, you will probably never be able to afford) 2. Quality is surely better 3. No funny I am wearing a fake watch feelings 4. You might get some extra frequent flyer miles Positives of buying a rep: 1. You can wear it everywhere, and not worry about smashing it in any of those places 2. You afford that real diamond or LV bag for the missus 3. You don't line the pockets of top level executives that don't give a rat's backside about you stupid ass 4. you can try before you buy 5. They look cool 6. Peace of mind that you saved a ton of money to put towards your kids' education 7. jesus I'm tired... you guys fill in the rest LOL Have a great day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdivad Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 You know what bugs me? Paying a shitload of money for something that is worth 10% of what's asked for it. Let's get real for a sec here. I love watches like the next guy, but aren't we getting carried away with the whole gen issue? I mean, no matter how much money you have, or are able to spend, aren't there better causes to spend your money on? People are dying of hunger all over the world, for god's sake, and we are talking about spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a glorified man jewelry? C'mon! And seriously, what is the difference between a gen and a rep? The design? Nope. The actual movement? Come on, who cares?! You are talking about the lost connection to the watch making? You are absolutely right. But that connection was lost by the Swiss companies as well, mass-producing the same designs with standard off-the-shelf movements and selling guys like us an illusion of craftsmanship and tradition, which in reality are swallowed by a cleaver, but faceless marketing machine. Connection to the watch making you say? Try finding a watch smith in your area. If it's not a 80 year old dude who takes care of watch once a month and switching batteries on DKNY pieces of cr@p, I'll cut my arm off. The modern "watchmakers" are no more than a simple paycheck workers for huge money making machines, who's connection to art or craftsmanship is lost forever. What's the difference between them and some sweetshop chinese guy in Xian? The shiny white costume they wear to work? I love watches. So next time I feel like spending some green on a beautiful man toy worth 10000 I'll email Andrew or Josh and get it for 358 + shipping and spend the rest of my hard earned cash on buying my kids a freaken truck of books and take them to a vacation in the freaken Amazon (not the dot-com), so they could see birds and an occasional jaguar, and not think it was a car. Edit: /rant's over +10 What he said too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irontomkidd Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I have gen and rep alike and I will say the gen Omega PO feels on par with the quality of my BK DSSD. But my gen Rolex 116520 has a quality of feel that I haven’t seen in the rep world or the lower priced gen’s. After wearing the Daytona and switching to the DSSD I notice the clasp doesn’t close with that satisfying click as loudly as the gen, and the feel of the Daytona bracelet against your skin is like silk. The tightness of the grain on the brushed part of the links is amazing to look at and overall the Daytona is perfect. Do these things justify the $10500+ price difference… hell no. but I don’t regret buying any of my watches or I would dump the lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Every few months, I question my rep collection. Having sworn never to buy a gen again, I've slowly started rebuilding with a couple of used gens and a couple of highly modded Frankens with gen Rolex movements. I've now identified (I think) which models are keepers and which are not. I will never buy a brand new watch in store again. There are always deals to be had. Back to reps, who doesn't like having a box full of watches to choose from? Buy one for $358, see if t works. If not, sell. All for $50-$75 loss. It's great. As others have said, the "getting caught" is in our head. What % of the population are WIS? Buy what makes you comfortable. Even $358 spent on something that is never worn is a waste of money! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted December 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 interesting stuff...yes..I know I think too much...even about thinking too much...and yes this is all in our heads....what isn't? We are in hour heads...our work problems are in our heads,,,,We live the world inside out.....every thing we think is out there is actually in our heads....that doesn't make it trivial....so the rep gen difference is in our heads...yes... as far as saving money...I don't know...my kids have every "need" they can imagine....certainly if it came down to a choice between watches and family...my whole collection would be reps (well. seikos and homages) ...and yes I guess I could sell my gen collection,,and give to a good cause...but the truth is I'm just not that good of a person...wish I knew someone that good..... as some of you know I tend to go on about the psychology of watches...but I see this as a general issues...I mean...does it bug you when some person is "faking it"...for ex..they say..how are you? have a nice day...while they are daydreaming? A person has on their shirt "I care" or "how may I help you" when you know they couldn't care less about you...there is a local sports bar where everyone has to wear a shirt that says "I love my job" at least here in the west....(prob all ove the world) we are a society of fakes....I guess if we were more gen as people....perhaps replica watches wouldn't bug me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 'at least here in the west....(prob all over the world) we are a society of fakes....I guess if we were more gen as people....perhaps replica watches wouldn't bug me...' Come on now chris that's a bit of a pessimistic outlook isn't it? I for one, and I'm sure there are plenty of other people on here, are pretty genuine or I've forgotten to clean my rose tinted glasses again ! Do you know what I believe, I believe that the world is portrayed in your minds eye as 'You' see and interpret it and not how it really is, yes there are lots of people in society both in the west and all over the planet that are only here for their own benefit, but, and its a big but there are some wonderfully gracious and understanding people that would give you their last dime to make sure you were looked after in a crisis, think on my friend you may well meet one tomorrow............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted December 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I don't know sgtguk,,,,,not sure if it is pessimistic,,,just whats in my head right now.....and that's all I want.....an honest flow of what is in my head to what I shaire with the world.....call it zen,,,tao....or in christianity...Gods will.....there are a lot of names for it,,,but in the end it is just being what you are....gen... and here is the irony...on all the gen forums....there is a sense of fakeness....I mean...you can't talk about replicas...but as soon as you get to know someone,,,then it all comes out...oh yeah,,,I have this and that rep.... as least here there is a sense of honesty....being gen about replicas....rather than being fake about gens.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 'as least here there is a sense of honesty....being gen about replicas....rather than being fake about gens....' Now that's something I can agree on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'll reply properly later, the edit function just lost major parts of my text. Twice. And I have to go out so don't have the time to retype it a 3rd time at the moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civic4982 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I concur with many of the statements here. For me the connection to the rep begins when I start putting my own work into it. Piecing together parts and breaking things and replacing them and doing it myself as much as I can. The only pieces that stick around are ones that I've worked countless hours on and finally achieved something epic with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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