rionrlty Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Hi Guys, I could sure use some advice from some of you Rolex fans. I have a nice gen ETA 2836-2 GMT gold plated movement that is surplus. It comes with a green rep dial, gold hand set, including GMT hand and is marked 25 jewels Swiss on the rotor. I cannot find the stem and crown that came with it although I'm still looking. It is in good running condition. I'm thinking of posting it for sale on the forum, but I have no idea of it's value. I would appreciate some input on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProMariner Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Hi Guys, I could sure use some advice from some of you Rolex fans. I have a nice gen ETA 2836-2 GMT gold plated movement that is surplus. It comes with a green rep dial, gold hand set, including GMT hand and is marked 25 jewels Swiss on the rotor. I cannot find the stem and crown that came with it although I'm still looking. It is in good running condition. I'm thinking of posting it for sale on the forum, but I have no idea of it's value. I would appreciate some input on this. It depends, does the movement work properly ? Are you it is a gen and not an Asian clone stated as gen from the TD? Does it need service ? Please post a picture of it and we will tell you if it is gen or an Asian clone engraved with ETA symbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rionrlty Posted December 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Here are the pictures. The movement came out of an all gold anniversary edition GMT. It ran great but the case was damage and it scratched through the gold. I sent it out to be replated but never received it back. I've written it off. It's been about 4 years now. I took it to my watch smith and he said it looked gen to him. The rotor had a fakey Rolex glue on overlay and thats wht glue residue that discolors the rotor. Thanks for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 If it ain't gen it's a real real good copy. I'd say ETA but there are guys who know more........................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rionrlty Posted December 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I have another one with nickel plated ETA 2836-2 and the markings look right on. If its gen I may keep it and look for a good GMT with a dead Asian movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymanmatt Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 100% clone for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue. Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 That is interesting as cloned movements get better and better. What would be the typical tells in this case? I must admit all engravings are very very crisp and the spring for the shock ruby is gen like. +- seem to have a slight bevel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I think I'd have to disagree with Matt based on the jewel keeper and overall perfect stampings. I see nothing in particular to make it an Asian clone. Asian Clone: ETA: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 My guess is that it is a genuine Eta comparing it to a known to be genuine Eta on my desk. No guarantees. If it can be established that the movement is genuine, it should be worth at least as much as a new etaclone with the 24 hour modification like listed on eBay from time to time. What knocks the value down to this level is the likely need for service. These movements are getting hard to find in good condition. Although the 24 hour modification is likely done in China, they give very little trouble as long as they are the type with non adjustable 24 hour hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymanmatt Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 This is a gen eta. It was built in dec 2012. Ive never seen one in any rep. While the chinese are very good at copying the swiss and convincing you that the movements in your rep you buy are swiss, believe me, they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rionrlty Posted December 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I just checked some records and determined that the watch this came out of was purchased in 2006. As I did not even know what a TD was at that point I can't claim that origin, but other than that I don't know for sure who it came from. It is a GMT II with adjustable GMT hand, but it worked quite well as I remember. The watch got little use during that time, until it was disassembled about 4 years ago. The movement was sealed in a dust proof container since then. As I said earlier the plated case was damaged and I sent it out to a fellow who said he could replate it with thicker plating. Of course I never saw the case again. It had the bezel on it, but I still have the insert, which is a cheap copy. The watch itself was beautiful and seemed to have fairly thick plating, but alas it received a deep scratch on the side of the case, which went through to the SS. So far my responses, on two different forums, have yielded about even results for both gen and clone so I no better off than when I started. I don't want to sell this as gen if it is not, but neither do I want scrap it as a clone if it is gen. I will say that my watch smith, who is not an AD, has been critical of the clones, but he is convinced this is gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymanmatt Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 All we have are pictures to go on. Having it in your hand is a huge plus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 The Chinese clones do not use Etachoc shock absorbers. The "ETA" choc comes from ETA, as in Swiss for "ETA shock". Plus, back in 2006 there were actually a lot more ETA movements and a whole LOT less clones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjjoyce1 Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 I find it interesting that here, several years after they were discovered we're still trying to call out clone movements based on stampings. KBH pointed it out - if you're going to make a snap judgement based on first glance, look at the shock springs. First of all, as mymanmatt's photo shows, if your movement has an Incabloc, it's gen, or one of the built-from-parts movements we saw several years ago. I've never come across a clone with Incabloc. Then, as KBH highlighted, the Novodiac's in the clones use the FHF Novodiac's NOT ETA's version as is easily seen in his pictures. If there is only one slot for the spring, it's an FHF version and an Asian Clone. http://www.ofrei.com/page1438.html In working on these movements you'll also find interesting differences from time to time. I once changed out the fourth wheel, canon pinion and hour wheel for an H5 and initially didn't pay close attention. When I was trying to regulate the movement, there was a huge difference between dial up and dial down timing. Couldn't figure out what was going on until I tore everything down again. The clone fourth wheel and the ETA were very different. I compared a gen H4, clone H4 and gen H5 fourth wheel. The two ETA's had a pronounced two stage diameter, the clone had a single thickness with a little collar at the end. What was going on was the clone's seconds tube did not have a smaller diameter end - which the gen does. So the gen fourth wheel when placed in a clone tube just slips through. In the dial down position it was just riding on the second wheel causing it to dramatically slow down. There are also finish issues (the balances on gen ETA's have a much higher polish), and parts issues (screws on clones aren't always right.) I think the OP's movement is gen ETA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 I think I'd have to disagree with Matt based on the jewel keeper and overall perfect stampings. I see nothing in particular to make it an Asian clone. Asian Clone: ETA: That is what I was looking at KBH, looks pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Then, as KBH highlighted, the Novodiac's in the clones use the FHF Novodiac's NOT ETA's version as is easily seen in his pictures. If there is only one slot for the spring, it's an FHF version and an Asian Clone. http://www.ofrei.com/page1438.html I may be wrong on this but I read not too long ago that Novadiac and Etachoc are the same thing, only that ETA now owns the company that makes them and has officially renamed that system Etachoc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Looks genuine to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneed12 Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 It's either Swiss or a really good example of the new superclone, and if it's from 2006 the superclone didn't exist then. So it's Swiss. As for value--frankly, not a whole lot. $60-100 maybe. A Swiss movement from a rep built in 06 was probably taken from a much older watch, and really is due for a service by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacher62 Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 I find it interesting that here, several years after they were discovered we're still trying to call out clone movements based on stampings. KBH pointed it out - if you're going to make a snap judgement based on first glance, look at the shock springs. First of all, as mymanmatt's photo shows, if your movement has an Incabloc, it's gen, or one of the built-from-parts movements we saw several years ago. I've never come across a clone with Incabloc. Then, as KBH highlighted, the Novodiac's in the clones use the FHF Novodiac's NOT ETA's version as is easily seen in his pictures. If there is only one slot for the spring, it's an FHF version and an Asian Clone. http://www.ofrei.com/page1438.html In working on these movements you'll also find interesting differences from time to time. I once changed out the fourth wheel, canon pinion and hour wheel for an H5 and initially didn't pay close attention. When I was trying to regulate the movement, there was a huge difference between dial up and dial down timing. Couldn't figure out what was going on until I tore everything down again. The clone fourth wheel and the ETA were very different. I compared a gen H4, clone H4 and gen H5 fourth wheel. The two ETA's had a pronounced two stage diameter, the clone had a single thickness with a little collar at the end. What was going on was the clone's seconds tube did not have a smaller diameter end - which the gen does. So the gen fourth wheel when placed in a clone tube just slips through. In the dial down position it was just riding on the second wheel causing it to dramatically slow down. There are also finish issues (the balances on gen ETA's have a much higher polish), and parts issues (screws on clones aren't always right.) I think the OP's movement is gen ETA Thanks for this post, CJ. I have argued that gen parts and clone parts do not always work together and some argued that that was hooey. Also, you cannot always put a gen bridge on clone movement. The jewel pivots might not line up. As we know, there is more than one Chinese factory making these movements and some are better than others. Once, I purchased a gen balance complete from Ofrie to put in a clone and the post that snaps into the beat adjuster was larger than the clone unit. Would not snap in. I know that if you compare the gen and clone wheels under a 10x loupe you can definitely see that the finish of the gen is far superior to the clone. Having said that, I have some great running clones, that are healthy on the Timegrapher, but when you service a clone movement, it is important to be very careful and not lose or break any parts...and use the same parts to build it back up. I think that the OPs movement is gen, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rionrlty Posted December 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Thanks guys, although it isn't a slam dunk I believe the yeas outnumber the nays at this point. I kind of believed it was gen too, but wanted some more informed opinions so I could be more certain. I've also learned a lot along the way from some of you. I'm leaning right now toward having the movement serviced and putting it in one of my Rollies with a clone movement. The only negative is that they all seem to be running fine for now and I always believed that if it ain't broke don't fix it. Does anyone know what it takes to put an ETA based movement in a watch that came with a 2816DG? Do you just need a movement holder and hands, or something more that I haven't considered yet? Thanks for all the response and I will check back every day or two to check out additional replies. Happy New Year all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 I took the original CHS ETA2836 out of my GMTIIC and replaced it with a DG3046b, and then later put in a ETA 2893 movement without any particular problem. Just have to use the correct hand set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 What is a DG3046b movement? I'm not familiar with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Should be DG3804B. Senility is setting in.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Lol! I know that feeling first hand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 It is Gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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