Freshly serviced movement does not transmit power to drive train?

[Timelord]

Have a freshly serviced eta 2824-2 which was running fine and within 5 seconds per day for  couple of weeks!  Now  the balance wheel no longer swings as pallet fork is stagnant!  Very strange!  I have checked if there are are any obstructions in the gears, cogs, including the balance stop in case it brakes onto balance wheel which is clear!  Anyone ever experienced this?   Thanks for any input!

[Rolexman]

Remove the balance wheel and fork if you can and see if the gear train moves freely than. Such an immediate stop sounds strange and is usually a loose screw or part. 

[horologist]

Is this movement you have a clone or a genuine?

 

it sounds like all the notorious hallmarks of a typical clone to me as every clone I purchased had exactly this same problem!  

 

They work for a while and then all of a sudden they come to an abrupt halt.  The typical suggestions are that they all need to be serviced before use, but even after serviced the same happens!!  Something inferior in some the quality of the parts- who knows?  I gave.up and keep well away from them!

[mymanmatt]

I too have had this happened. I take my finger nail and put it on the mainspring tub gears and then rock the the tub back and forth. If the balance is in the pallet fork, it may start. Make sure the the balance hasn't popped out of the pallet fork. I"ve done that on a dozen eta's in the last year. Something binds up and I cannot figure out why. Try that first . Horologist is correct. Remove the pallet fork and make sure the drive train spin"s freely. Good luck

[Timelord]

On 4 June 2019 at 6:12 AM, Rolexman said:

Remove the balance wheel and fork if you can and see if the gear train moves freely than. Such an immediate stop sounds strange and is usually a loose screw or part. 

 

13 hours ago, mymanmatt said:

I too have had this happened. I take my finger nail and put it on the mainspring tub gears and then rock the the tub back and forth. If the balance is in the pallet fork, it may start. Make sure the the balance hasn't popped out of the pallet fork. I"ve done that on a dozen eta's in the last year. Something binds up and I cannot figure out why. Try that first . Horologist is correct. Remove the pallet fork and make sure the drive train spin"s freely. Good luck

 

On 4 June 2019 at 9:17 AM, horologist said:

Is this movement you have a clone or a genuine?

 

I don't know for sure as it was already in a replica watch which has all the eta stamps etc.   I know even clones come with these stampings so it's anyone's guess.  Have also taken advice of both Mymanmatt and rolexman , however it s still the same 

[ceejay]

These are the checks you should be performing...

 

Let down the power, carefully!

 

Remove balance & pallets.

 

Apply couple of turns of power from stem and observe the gear train, it should run freely and a friction-free gear train will reverse on itself slightly. So the gears will stop and reverse on themselves. 

If this is achieved, install pallets.

Apply a few winds of power. With a loupe observe the pallets as you gently nudge them from one banking pin to the other. As you nudge them they should 'flick' to the opposite banking pin, you shouldn't have to push them across.

Also, with the pallet resting against the banking pin, give them the tiniest of nudges, they should move away from the banking and be 'drawn' back to them. This shouldn't be sluggish and they should stick away from the banking pin.

 

Once these tests are complete and successful, you have eliminated most faults in the gear train & escapement. The problem then lies within the balance.

 

Good luck!

[mymanmatt]

I too have had this happened. I take my finger nail and put it on the mainspring tub gears and then rock the the tub back and forth. If the balance is in the pallet fork, it may start. Make sure the the balance hasn't popped out of the pallet fork. I"ve done that on a dozen eta's in the last year. Something binds up and I cannot figure out why. Try that first . Horologist is correct. Remove the pallet fork and make sure the drive train spin"s freely. Good luck.     The balance wheels are very tricky. With the balance assy on your bench, and the hairspring up,  lightly flick the balance wheel. It should run freely for around 15 seconds. The 15 seconds is my rule of thumb, not a rule applied by industry horologist. If it doesn't it could be the hairspring is bad. Look at the coils on the hairspring and see if they are evenly spaced. If you have another balance assy to try, do that.  I got some advice from my rolex dealer friend years ago about hairsprings. He told that sometimes the ones that look the best won't run at all, and sometimes the ones that look the worst perform perfectly. It's a crazy crazy world when it comes to hairsprings. They can drive you insane!  LOL

[automatico]

mmm nailed it. 

 

'Lazy runners'...

I have seen a few movements that would run but with 'lazy' balance motion after a thorough c/o and this can sometimes be traced to a worn/bent balance staff and/or a dirty/damaged balance cap jewel. 

Example...I have a high mileage rlx 1570 that had lazy balance motion with dial up after c/o (good balance pivots) and it had a tiny divot in the center of the cap jewel where the back side pivot runs.  The spot can not be removed and is almost impossible to see or feel with a needle but it is bad enough to bog the balance down.  My guess is whoever owned the watch laid it down dial up every night for 20 or 30 years and this is what happened.  The fix is a new cap jewel.

 

Basically fool proof balance jewels c/o...

Soak the cap and hole jewels in fast evaporating/low residue cleaner for 10 or 15 minutes or buzz them in an ultrasonic machine.  After cleaning, rub the flat side of the cap jewel on a clean business card or something similar to remove any residue, then oil the flat side of the jewel with a drop about half as big as the jewel in the center.  Next, place the hole jewel down over the cap jewel taking care to get it level and centered (capillary action will move oil to the hole jewel).  If you miss the cap jewel and smear the oil drop, clean the jewels and try again.

Note...sometimes rubbing the cap jewel on a card can remove some 'paper fuzz' from the paper to the cap jewel and it needs to be rinsed off and reoiled.  I have used blue Rodico to remove the fuzz and this is Ok as long as the Rodico is clean and does not leave any trace on the jewel.

 

Quickie Outlaw fixes:

'Old Timer' trick number one...

Remove the balance assembly and pallet fork, then wind the watch a little bit and let it 'spin down' to sling trash, fly specks etc off the wheels and away from pivots.  This is quick and dirty but probably Ok on an Asian '21 jewel' trader/beater movement.  It can also sling oil away from pivots and overheat them if allowed to spin too fast or too long.

'Old Timer' trick number two...

Apply a little Ronsonol lighter fluid to the pivots on old dirty movements, then crank 'em up and watch 'em go.  Your choice on the lighter fluid brand but I always liked Ronsonol.  

'Old Timer' trick number three...Heat the watch in the sun or put it close to a light bulb etc.  This warms the dirty/gummy oil up and frees the wheel train...for a little while.  Sell it in a hurry while it is still running.  This is a favorite flea market trick...if you see a guy set up outside in the sun with a glass top show case full of watches, buyer beware.

 

 

"It's a crazy crazy world when it comes to hairsprings. They can drive you insane!  LOL"

 

Imho hairsprings are the bane of the mechanical watch.  That and $500 to $3000 'tune ups' every few years.

Oh yeah, I forgot...no parts being sold by the swiss biggies.  That alone should put them out of business as far as I am concerned.

It's no wonder quartz watches rule the market by volume. 

 

My crystal ball shows many swiss watch companies going broke trying to keep their overpriced baubles relevant to buyers who do not really care.  It happened to them once already and by a fluke of nature (gullibility?) and advertising they flushed their obsolete miniature mechanical malfunctions back out on the market again with greatly inflated prices during the 'look at me!' 1990s...with much success I might add.  Times are mostly good again but the new inhabitants of the watch buying world do not give much of a %#(+ about mechanical watches.

 

[kernow]

Good solid advice here. 

 

Of course mine would be to use the following tool and start again.  

 

 

[automatico]

"Of course mine would be to use the following tool and start again."

 

I like this one too...   

 

 

[mymanmatt]

Just to confirm, you’re sure the balance has not popped out of the pallet fork. Easiest way to ck is to flick balance wheel and see if it rotates in both directions. To confirm, take a pair of tweezers and gently rotate the balance in both directions. If you feel it stop going in one direction, loosen the balance cock and reinstall the balance wheel into the pallet fork

[Timelord]

 

 

[Timelord]

Gentlemen,  I am not sure how to say it, but thank you are too little words in comparison to the gift of attention you have given me to help solve my problem!  

 

Took all of your advice on board, by checking the pallet fork balance etc.  upon shaking to add power from rotor swing, hair spring swings perfectly for almost a minute until it stops. Upon removing balance the pallets flick from one banking pin to another without a problem,but noticed the end  of pallet fork that engages into the rotor jewel seems odd with a bent piece which I cannot photograph as my camera resolution is not powerful enough.  It even looks like it has a bent jewel on the end which explains why the hairspring rotates freely for almost a minute.  The seconds hand does not move nor does the pallet fork while the balance swings nicely.  

 

Will buy a new pallet fork and see how it goes!  It must be a clone as it was running perfectly before all this happened

 

[Nanuq]

You guys make us admin/mods proud.  That's going above and beyond to share hard-won knowledge about tricks of the trade.  I doubt you'll find this kind of camaraderie on any other watch board, anywhere.

 

Well done.   

 

[Mike on a bike]

I have spent a lot of time defending us on other boards "the knitting circle" they call us. I've always counter w/ our guys are pondering builds and doing movement work in ivory towers we are the brain trust of the rep world , that puts a cork in it they know and the above is why.

[horologist]

This is not just a forum, nor just a forum on replica watches, nor a forum on just watches regardless, nor anything on what you will find anywhere in the world on internet.  This is a SPECIAL FRATERNITY, where you do not need any minimum qualifications to be part of, nor do you need to be of any particular status whether you belong to the House of Lords or live in a cardboard box!!!!  There are no initiation rites here, there are no judgements made here, there are people from all walks of life that never boast to be Professors or high profile people even if they are!!!!  We respect each other, we have debates, arguments but at the end of the day we are still a Fraternity that values each other in peace.  Where will we find this?? Do I need to say anymore?  John Lennon would be as close to his dream of Imagine in a place like here!!!

 

On a final note, I experienced the passing of two family members  while I was on this forum and the solace and sanity I got here ( where today is the 5th anniversary of one of them) gives me the will to move on!!!!!

 

I am privileged to be here!!!!!

[Nanuq]

Today is the anniversary of D-Day and I haven't posted this in awhile. It seems like a good time to do it again.

 

 

This day is call’d the feast of Crispian. He that outlives this day, and comes safe home, Will stand a tip-toe when this day is named, And rouse him at the name of Crispian.

 

He that shall live this day, and see old age, Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours, And say, “To-morrow is Saint Crispian.” Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars, And say, “These wounds I had on Crispian’s day.”

 

Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, But he’ll remember with advantages What feats he did that day. Then shall our names, Familiar in his mouth as household words, Harry the King, Bedford, and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester, Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb’red.

 

This story shall the good man teach his son; And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by, From this day to the ending of the world, But we in it shall be remembered,

 

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers. For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition;

 

And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.

 

 

[Mike on a bike]

hear! hear!

[Timelord]

2 hours ago, Nanuq said:

 

And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.

 

 

Interesting to hear of Saint Crispian!  I recall as a child my late mother mentioned of a Saint Crispian who was also a mystique as he had the power to fly.  A Franciscan monk if I recall correctly!   

[Timelord]

an update!!!!

 

As it turned out I have the watch ticking again.  I noticed that the problem was in the jewel of the balance which was missing or had fallen off.  I had found it close by near the escapement. 

 

I removed the balance from another eta movement to check if this would do the trick and BINGO!!!  it has been ticking.  Now one balance down stopping a whole good movement working!!!!!

 

Now replacing these things isn't easy as eta parts are no longer available.  I see some generic ones but are they any good?  hope the same doesn't happen to the generic one if I were to go with that choice. 

 

removing the balance and replacing the bridge is beyond my league of skills   Has anyone ever done it and if so what are your recommendations?  Thanks