gioarmani Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 God damn, if this isn't the longest thread I've ever seen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Geese Louise, "Curved Saphire glass"? What's next? Plexi Saphire? Glass Plexi? Glass is glass. Plexi is Plexi and Saphire is Saphire. I'm getting a headache. With all the differing descriptions, it must be confusing for many to know what's what. With the murkiness here, the "curved sapphire glass" may indeed be genuine sapphire crystal, but who's to know without buying it ? The $50 difference looks like it's for the AR and movement. Standardized terms remove all doubt. Very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona4me Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 So... whats the solution here? What's admin going to do to Jos and Andrew???? Are they going to ban them for lying?? I'd like to know, maybe I ask for vote on the same thing on RWI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 So... whats the solution here? What's admin going to do to Jos and Andrew???? Are they going to ban them for lying?? I'd like to know, maybe I ask for vote on the same thing on RWI. @DT4 Your sarcasm is not appreciated... We happen to take the Integrity and Ethics of our Dealers very seriously... This issue is being discussed in our Admin, as well as with the Dealers in question... A decision will be forth coming... Thanks for your input and support, Two Tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona4me Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I'm sorry you took it as sarcasm. It was a serious question, one that we both face. I withdraw my question, feel free to delete. Have a good night, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I'm sorry you took it as sarcasm. It was a serious question, one that we both face. I withdraw my question, feel free to delete. Have a good night, Greg Greg: My apologies if I mis-read [mis-interpreted] your post... PM Sent... TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona4me Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) No apologies necessary. My etiquette knows this is probably best in admin section I am not too full of myself to not ask for opinions. RWG & RWI are two nice sites. We should work together when we can. I value all opinions of those who .... understand. Again, question best made in different forum. Edited January 27, 2007 by Daytona4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) SportsterRider: "Every rep that I've ever bought that was advertised as having a synthetic sapphire crystal has had one. For me, the easiest way to tell the different is to tap on the crystal. Sapphire sounds solid. Mineral sounds hollow, almost like tapping on a drinking glass. I can also tell the difference by the way it 'feels'. Sapphire feels smoother to me than mineral glass." That was an excellant suggestion! I just tapped on about 10 different watch crystals and you are right. The mineral glass has a distinct high note when you tap on it and the sapphie is all thud. Thanks. As I go along I might end up knowing a thing or two about watches.... /Tim Edited January 27, 2007 by Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olga Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Pug brings up a very good point here. Outside of our little world here the only times I have seen synthetic sapphire were in articles about the process of producing sapphire crystal. To the rest of the world sapphire watch crystal means sapphire period. One does not need to add synthetic or any other description in front. The term stands on its own. Problem is someone somewhere said synthetic sapphire to describe a mineral crystal and it stuck. Was it a deliberate attempt to mislead? I don't wish accuse anyone and it may have been a innocent mistake, but the point is it has now been brought up enough that the fog should be lifted and yet many members still don't know that synthetic, genuine or whatever sapphire is a sapphire crystal, and dealers still use synthetic to describe glass. Personally I don't care if you call it martian sapphire, but if the word sapphire appears anywhere in the description than it had better be sapphire and nothing else. A little aside TTK uses "genuine" sapphire to try and eliminate the confusion. While I don't think that it is neccessary, I do understand the reason and I applaud his attempt to remove any doubt about his descriptions. Point being, he shouldn't have had to do so. Synthetic Sapphire is artificially grown sapphire. It's what Rolex, Omega, etc use in watches. It's what we know as Sapphire. The only people to use "Synthetic Sapphjire" to mean anything but lab-grown sapphire are a handful of our dealers, and they do so to deliberately mislead us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) In order to clear up any confusion...( particularly in terms of the items that I advertise or have advertised in the past....! 1. Where I use the terms "sapphire" "synthetic sapphire" "genuine sapphire"..........I am stating quite categorically that the glass is NOT mineral glass.....but absolute, authentic, categorical, certain, concrete, confirmed, definite, existing, factual, genuine, hard, honest injun, indisputable, indubitable, kosher, physical, positive, sure enough, tangible, true, truthful, undeniable, unquestionable, verified....BLOODY SAPPHIRE. Outside of our little world here the only times I have seen synthetic sapphire were in articles about the process of producing sapphire crystal. Sorry Olga....but you're wrong......the term synthetic sapphire occurs on many watch sites.....and I personally have seen it used many times over my 30+ years of collecting watches...gen and rep....! I also object to certain members stating that when a dealer states SYNTHETIC SAPPHIRE he is trying to hoodwink members into accepting MINERAL GLASS as sapphire...and is LYING in his advert.......I can't and won't speak for other dealers......but I advertise it as I find it....and the term SYNTHETIC SAPPHIRE is in common use ALL OVER THE WEB to indicate SAPPHIRE crystal in watches.......HERE ARE A FEW LINKS THAT SHOW QUITE CLEARLY THAT IT IS A WIDELY ACCEPTED TERM TO DECRIBE THE WATCH CRYSTAL......including a direct link to The Federarion of the Swiss Watch Industry FH. Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH http://www.fhs.ch/en/faq.php Below are some other links that show sales oriented sites selling Cartier / Rolex / Seiko watches described as having SYNTHETIC SAPPHIRE crystals......you're surely not suggesting that all these sites are misdescribing MINERAL glass as SAPPHIRE. Finally......let's clarify this once and for all. 1. Sapphire means SAPPHIRE 2. Synthetic sapphire means SAPPHIRE 3. Genuine sapphire means SAPPHIRE 4. Mineral glass means NOT SAPPHIRE http://www.secondtimeround.com/cartier%20gents.html http://www.amazon.com/Movado-Sapphire-Watc...3/dp/B0002949X8 http://www.howardfrum.com/cartier.htm http://www.watchreport.com/ http://www.partshelf.com/seiko-watches.html http://www.abouttime.com/abouttime/rolexwomens.invtc.html Also.......to determine whether your glass is mineral or sapphire......the following methods WILL tell you. 1. Diamond tester. 2. Water droplets on the glass.......take a small straw with your fingertip over the top and a couple of drops of water inside.....hold it close to the glass...let a drop or two fall on the glass.......it will bead on sapphire glass......and form a puddle on mineral......SEE PHOTO BELOW. 3. Leave a reference mineral glass and suspected sapphier glass in your bedroom overnight.......in the morning....place the sapphire and mineral glasses to your forehead.......the sapphire will DEFINITELY feel MUCH colder..........DO NOT DO THIS IN A ROOM WITH AIR CONDITIONG......YOU WILL GET A FALSE RESULT. Edited January 27, 2007 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumum Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 TTK, tried to pm you but your inbox is full. Also email you. Please ckeck if possible. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 @DT4 Your sarcasm is not appreciated... We happen to take the Integrity and Ethics of our Dealers very seriously... This issue is being discussed in our Admin, as well as with the Dealers in question... A decision will be forth coming... Thanks for your input and support, Two Tone So I assume from this post that the Admin is in communication with the dealers conspicuiously absent from this discussion about this topic and that a resolution is being talked about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) @crystalcranium.......may I draw your attention to the disclaimer that preceds entry into this forum and heads up every page...( I believe) The messages express the views of the author of the message, NOT the views of RWGs admin. The RWG admin will remove any objectionable messages immediately upon being contacted concerning objectionable material. We reserve the right to delete any message for any reason. All information found on this website is to be used for educational purposes only, and cannot be used to conduct illegal activites of any sort. By reading the material on this website, you agree to assume full responsibility for any actions and consequences from the use, misuse or abuse of any of the information found on this website. You agree to hold this website, it's owners, operators and agents harmless from any lawsuit or legal actions as a result of your actions. The Admin of ANY site must remain impartial and stand aside regarding the trading of any item on their forum.......this is a discussion forum....and ALL trades take place between members(?)......and are in no way condoned or sanctioned by Admin.......it's not the job of Admin to POLICE the forum.....nor to act as judge and jury and mete out punishment......except of course where forum rules are being broken.....as far as I know the forum has no rules regarding dealer / member transactions.....simply a set of requirements that dealers are expected to adhere to.......and to intervene in a policing role would imply complicity in the sale of IP rights infringing items...! It's up to the members to police the forum and express satisfaction or dissatisfaction regarding the activities of anyone who sells here.......it can be achieved by alerting other members to any activity that one feels is against the spirit of the forum and is not in the best interests of forum members.....! Edited January 27, 2007 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitmic Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 TTK>> Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Anyone remember the solid gold Franck Muller Casablanca? Look at post #131 of the thread on the FM Casablanca - it is stated that: decorated movt fm 2892 movt---genuine 2892...not china 2892 movt. The signs were there for those that don't know, about these fake 2892 movements, but not everyone has the time to read every thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Anyone remember the solid gold Franck Muller Casablanca? Look at post #131 of the thread on the FM Casablanca - it is stated that: The signs were there for those that don't know, about these fake 2892 movements, but not everyone has the time to read every thread! So judging from the pics in this thread about the Gold FM, the movement is the 2892 "Frankenmovement" ID'd by Ziggy earlier in this thread...a genuine ETA baseplate with an Asian balance and blued screws and possibly more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 So judging from the pics in this thread about the Gold FM, the movement is the 2892 "Frankenmovement" ID'd by The Zigmeister earlier in this thread...a genuine ETA baseplate with an Asian balance and blued screws and possibly more. Just to clarify, those are stock (factory) pictures and not of the finished watches. The group buy did specify genuine Swiss ETA 2892 movement. Sadly, f'n WinXP Home won't recognize external devices (camera phone, USB stick etc) however many drivers I select, and since the other computer is dead at the moment I can't post pictures. I don't think it had blue screws on the movement though, and the phone screen is too small to make it out. It doesn't look like blue screws though. Hopefully someone else can help out to clear that one up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olga Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Sorry Olga....but you're wrong......the term synthetic sapphire occurs on many watch sites.....and I personally have seen it used many times over my 30+ years of collecting watches...gen and rep....! TTK - Point well taken. I hope you didn't take offense to what I said. I had puposefully put in my post the sentence about you, because I am aware that you have used "sapphire crystal" and currently use "genuine crystal" and always to mean the same thing, that the watch you were offering contained a sapphire crystal. As for the other dealers, well I have been pretty successful "perhaps lucky" in determining from their description what I would be getting. So far every watch that has arrived has been what I expected. But I know from previous posts that others have not been so lucky. The point I was trying to make is that this has become much more confusing than it needs to be. I wasn't trying to indict any dealer here specifically. As an example, the first link in your group at the bottom contained this description: Synthetic sapphire crystal glass On that site selling gen watches I wouldn't have even thought twice about the description, However; when dealing with reps, I would have been almost certain from that description that I was getting mineral glass. Again though I want to be very clear that this doesn't pertain to you. If I read that description in your offer, I would most assuredly expect to receive a watch with a sapphire crystal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 @Olga....no offense taken.....and no offense meant from me.........I understand where you are coming from.....and agree completely that we should standardise the descriptions for all watch crystals......filter it down to 2x simple statements......"genuine sapphire".....or......"mineral glass"......what more could be desired...and it ain't rocket science.......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 kosher, TTK - you have crystals that were made overseen by Rabbis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) @Phoband......of course.....I cater to all.....except stupid people....! PS....interestiung to note which members were perusing this topic at around 12:11......and who is now absent....! Edited January 27, 2007 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leonado Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 This discussion brings back to mind the discussion about solid gold reps we had some time ago. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC65 Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 kosher, TTK - you have crystals that were made overseen by Rabbis? Being Jewish, I would like to order one of these kosher watches from TTK. Then I can wear it to the synagogue without fear of being called out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) Yep......whether it be Talmud Tora Kosher.....TTK is kosher glat.....gloib mir...... Edited January 27, 2007 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) @Pugwash......I don't think Klink was ridiculing you for your stance on this issue....but for your lack of intestinal fortitude in not taking up Don Quixote's lance and tilting at windmills..........whatever it was......it was wrong of him......! I'm afraid you are wrong there TTK. Klink's has an agenda on this one. It's no secret that he has put his support behind one dealer in particular. Klink would love nothing more than to see a high ranking member like Pug publicly call out Josh and Andrew. Pug was baited and taunted and embarrassed publicly by an [censored]. End of story. Edited April 12, 2007 by andreww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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