RWG Technical Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Movement review, Asian 7750 with running seconds at "3" This is the latest in a long line of modified Asian 7750's. The Asian's have come out with more variants than the Swiss ever did, or thought of...there seems to be no end to the uses of this movement. I think the Asian 7750 has been given and continued to be bashed as a "crappy" movement, based on teething problems with the original version that was produced. The 28.8K models, are in my opinion as good mechanically as the Swiss models. Astetically the Asian model is 8 out of 10 compared to the Swiss. I have not had a return of a Asian 7750 that I have serviced in the past 12 months. Just like the Canada Customs BS myth that won't go away, the Asian 7750 needs to be seen for what it is, a good movement, well executed, but poorly serviced as delivered. Going back 2+ years when we first had a look at the Daytona with running seconds moved to the 6 position (remember the first renditions were based on Swiss ETA 7750's, not Asian models). These first Daytona's were over $1K if I remember well, but suffered with the same problems as all versions did - poorly designed modification with too much friction in the running seconds drive gears (all 5 of them). A correctly designed transfer gear system would actually work, if only someone did it...and maybe they finally did... So now we have the newest rendition of the 7750, and this time we have taken the running seconds from it's normal "9" position, and moved it all the way across the dial face to the "3 position. Added to this, they moved the 30-minute timer from the "12" to the "9" position, but since we have had quazi 7753's for some time now (which moved the 30-minute timer to "3"), moving it to "9" is not a big engineering challenge. So how well did they do? It's probably very unrealistic of me to think my comments and analysis of movements, somehow makes it back to the actual movement designers in Asia. Since I have been offering my suggestions on how to make these modifications work, for over 2 years now, maybe...just maybe...they heard me (finally, now if your hearing this, do the same to the running seconds at 6 A7750's and watch the sales go through the roof...). I won't bore you with the usual teardown of a 7750 photo's we have all seen those... So lets start off with the movement all cleaned up, and the basic movement assembled, and now we will start assembling the chrono parts. Overall view dial side, no bridge installed. Looks like any 7750 at this stage (well, not exactly, the eagle eyed members will spot some mainplate mods) This is the top plate, view from above, date wheels removed for clarity. Same plate, bottom view. Before I install this plate, I have to put some parts in place for the chrono to work, here they are. Note that there are no gears installed for the transfer of the running seconds. If you remember on the running seconds at 6 models, we had to install a new gear, right where the 30-minute output gear is on this model...so where to we pick up running seconds if not where it is located...you'll see... Close up of the 30-minute output at "9" gear and coorresponding jewel. First view of how they picked up the running seconds, this is one of the mainplate mods, this hole does not exist on normal 7750's... Top plate installed, a challenge at the best of times, even more so, since I had not one (12-hour gear and post) to deal with, but the addition of the 30-minute gear and post to line up and get through the plate. Do you see how the gears that we were just looking at are meshed into each other (small inspection holes show if your assembling the watch correctly). Another view. These are the posts for the 30 minute hand and the 12-hour one. The first part of the running seconds transfer gears, do you see what I do?? Actual gears with pivots, and jewels, wow, what is going on here... This part gets installed in the mainplate and will mesh this gear to the movement seconds wheel. Here is the parts installed. The first of two cover plates for the running seconds transfer gears, note more jewels... Overall view with the first cover plate installed, only 3 more gears to go... Here is what we have so far, note that it's all jeweled so far, a good sign. Jewels means no friction, no friction, means...well you know the answer... Second cover plate, for the remaining 3 gears, more jewels. Close up view of the center transfer gear, brass on nickel plated brass, best you can do to have the least friction. Small ring pressed in place to hold the gear. Location of the last two transfer gears, what is this? more jewels...can't be... And actual gears with pivots that ride in the jewels with no friction...unbelievable... Overall view with the remaining plate installed, showing the power flow across the movement face. Close up of the last gears, and the meshing between them... So there you have it. As in the running seconds at 6 model, we have 5 extra gears taking our running seconds from the "9 O'clock" position on the movement, running it across the dial face, and placing it at the "3 O'clock" position. As we all know, this mod doesn't work on the running seconds at "6" models. But, on this model, they have used correct watchmaking designs and placed 4 of the gears in jewels, with correct pivots, for little to no friction at all. The only gear that is not jewelled is the one that has to fit over the center post, and it can't be jewelled due to it having a big hole in the center. Based on my examination, testing, monitoring of the movement on my timing machine, I think this is a well done modification, and poses no issues to the long term life, or running of the movement. In other words, they finally go the design right. Finally... The movement was no different than any other A7750 that I see, in other words, no oil, or over oiled in some area's, no crap or dirt, just not serviced correctly. Movement has been running flawlessly for the past 2 days, and will be out the door by week's end. Thanks for reading, lets put the pressure on to get this design into a running seconds at 6 model. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahchard Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Wow.... looking good!!! so we can look forward to running seconds at 6 soon then!!! So can we call this a 31 jewel asian 7750 movement? hahaha... (seriously though, how many jewels in total?) And I am just wondering, with the 5 extra gears, does it make the movement thicker? Hence they would have to make the cases for the watches thicker as well to fit this modified movement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 That was great, thanks. I wonder if all the Bentleys with seconds at 3:00 are like that, or if there are different versions (and if we can look forward to a new Blackbird rep) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahchard Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Just realised that this opens up the path for a whole lot of other super reps!!! can anyone say "secs at 12"??? AP??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Well done as usual The Zigmeister. Maybe a good Daytona in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desuetude Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Awesome review, The Zigmeister! Now I feel that much better about my Breitling 6.75 w/seconds@3. This definitely makes things look good for future reps (cough ROO cough) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emuozz Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) Well this is good news that means that all the new reps with this configuration aren’t time bombs as the daytonas. From which rep did you take this movement? Now I just going to wait that they make something like that on the running seconds at 6 movements or a good ROO Thank you for you fantastic review as usual. Edited September 5, 2007 by emuozz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Wow.... looking good!!! so we can look forward to running seconds at 6 soon then!!! Yes, we can only hope they use this design on the other models out there... So can we call this a 31 jewel asian 7750 movement? hahaha... (seriously though, how many jewels in total?) Well that would not be accurate, there are 9 extra jewels on this one, 25+9 = 34 jewels in total...lets not tell them, or they will up the price... And I am just wondering, with the 5 extra gears, does it make the movement thicker? Hence they would have to make the cases for the watches thicker as well to fit this modified movement? Not in this case, look at the design and how it was done, the last plate you see, is no thicker than a standard 7750 with a calendar, and probably thinner than the A7750 (3) with the 30-minute counter at 3. I did not measure the thickness, but I think it's the same as a standard 7750 layout model. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stac Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 You have outdone yourself Rob This information is HUGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 That was great, thanks. I wonder if all the Bentleys with seconds at 3:00 are like that, or if there are different versions (and if we can look forward to a new Blackbird rep) I would guess that all the seconds at 3 models are of this design, can't see them tooling up for lower quality variants. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 From which rep did you take this movement? Bently 6.75. Glad you found it useful. Got to get some sleep, and rest my tweezer fingers... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carl Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I would guess that all the seconds at 3 models are of this design, can't see them tooling up for lower quality variants. RG It's great news and an incisive review as always. Perhaps you should take a vacation more often! Thanks! Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Is it any wonder that we love this man Another excellent tear down Ziggy and another step forward for our hobby. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us, oh and Ziggy can you drop me a PM please. Cheers Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Awesome!!! Hopefully a proper sec@6 will come out sometime soon and I'll take another stab at a Daytona! Lonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) Fantastic and professional review as usual. I agree, if they can do the secs at '6 properly like this... there will be hell of a lot Daytona buyers. Me included. Funny how this review came out when I was just reviewing the Daytona rep, and wondering if we ever see a proper movement for it. Looks like there's some hope at least... Edited September 5, 2007 by By-Tor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 The Zigmeister, I have read many of your reviews and you are without peer in the rep world for a balanced ,thorough, and informative explanation of the subject at hand. Thanks much for another great review! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italiano17771 Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 what an amzing review and pictorial!! i feel so much better about buying my bentley big date now that i have read this. thanks for all the info on this mvmvt and the 7750 with running seconds at 9. you are a great asset to this community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
325BMW Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thanks again, The Zigmeister for your wonderful review, it puts paid to the Hublot claim on their site that the Asian 7750 is a copy of "very poor quality"! Regarding the Daytona, I too would love one but I dont think its going to happen. With the seconds at 3,, the factory proves it can make a reliable change of a much greater magnitude than the seconds at 6, the fact is they havent, which makes me think they have an awful lot of stock that they would need to wite off. I think the only way to get an improved seconds at 6 is if we all agree to stop buying the time bomb version, I know they have already stopped making the seconds at 9 Daytona... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Excellent breakdown of a beautifully tooled Goldberg machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawo Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Hey The Zigmeister, was that my Bentley you tore apart? Oooohhhh, I can hardly wait to get it back!! I can't begin to thank you enough The Zigmeister, for your insight, dedication and contibutions to this forum. We are blessed with your presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Hi The Zigmeister, thanks again for such informative post. The time that it takes you to take all the photo, load them up to the PC, then edit them for us to read, is no small work. Thank you for all that you do. Despite that we are (I know I am) all learning about watch movements and its intricacies, your post is nothing short of amazing. Thank you time and time again. you are a valuable asset to this forum as always. what would we do without you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rxus Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Soo much info and you really can't put a price on it. This review in conjunction with the A7750 pictorial review should leave no doubt in anybodies minds about this movement. And yes i'l sign up for one of those daytonas if they implement this super jeweled movement design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Great review The Zigmeister. You gave us a terrific education. Thanks!.....Again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 if this type of information is not worth the price of VIP, you should consider yourself a leech The Zigmeister, you are the man, thank you for taking the time and detail to explain to us novices. I have learned so much about movements primarily from you, i almost think i know what i'm talking about too bad post of the month is no longer in force. Great Review, Great News, this goes to show that the future of what movement variants is bright. I'm sure that they were not happy on all the returned and failed seconds at 6 models, probably the daytona one of the most popular reps in the world. ITs a wonder they didn't fix it for that first, but i hvae to imagine that twe will see it soon. Rolex will always be more in demand thatn breitling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerman Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Great work The Zigmeister. I really appreciate the time and work you put into it all. Reviews like this take the rep community's knowledge to a completely different level. Just a fantastic job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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