Do you remember when buying and selling watches was fun?

[chris5264]

What has happend in the watch community???? You can put a watch up for a silly low price and still you find people with crazy low offers,,,,no introductions in the email,,,just "I'll take it" for about 40% less than asking price. Or some crazy trade offer or better yet,,,some crazy payment plan,,,Or my favorite,,,someone that will do a 10 email exchange and then hit you up with a crazy low offer,,,,

sorry just frustrated with the the turn the watch world is taking.

and my favorite,,,some asks a question and thinks that means that you will hold the watch for them....and after it gets sold they fire off a few mad emails like,,,why didn't you hold it for me,,,I did ask a question.......

[mezzanine]

I've had some really amazing situations. I don't even want to get started. I have pretty much got out of the hobby on the basis of not wanting to have to deal with it all...not in the sense of losing interest in reps, but in terms of buying/selling reps. It's not the most fun experience in the world, and these reps depreciate at a very fast rate.

I don't like the price depreciation with standard reps.

[Corgi]

I've never sold anything here, mainly because I'm scared of people. Call me antisocial, but I do not want some yahoo sending me letter-bombs because of some preposterous minute problem encountered during the deal... like "shipping was too long" or "i founded a scratch on my watch give me immediate refund waaaa"

Edited March 24, 2008 by Corgi

[ryyannon]

I wonder how many of these people are Supporting Members as opposed to the those who use this forum opportunistically, looking for a cheap watch-fix without ever giving anything back to permit the board's continued existence... What I'm suggesting here is the hypothesis of a direct correlation between support of the forum and half-assed purchasing behavoir. Not in every case, of course, but a correlation just the same.

Not a charitable thought, but then again, and despite the oft-repeated fact that the forum administration maintains that members are free to upgrade or not, RWG was never intended to be a soup kitchen for those who simply see it as a form of personal entitlement.

That said, I fully understand that there has always been a small minority of people who for a number of valid reasons cannot contribute financially to the forum.* Many of these people do participate one way or another - as evidenced by some of the contributors and bidders at the POTR auctions.

That a certain percentage of members simply can't or won't upgrade is perfectly acceptable and understandable. As are the people who take months to decide that RWG offers so much that it's normal to want to help support it its expensive system of offshore servers and bandwidth requirements.

But when you see more or less the same handful of people (less than 10% of the membership) literally making it possible for a vast majority of others to enjoy this place - year after year after year - the reality of the situation ends up staring you in the face and it becomes difficult to ignore.

*I respect their choices because they are choices, often justified by tight financial situations - rather than a systematic and reflexive default mode of non-support.

In closing...

The following members have visited today:

By-Tor, cornerstone, dluddy, kenberg, kruzer00, offshore, TwoTone, abat, addingwatch, alt.watch.obsessive, anton, ar0401, Bazz, beano2004, brsmith1, bruce79, bwhitesox, capice, Carl, carlsbadrolex, cdnbear, chris5264, cls, colinmgzt, Dani, DemonSlayer, drhydro, DuDro, elprimerozen, Estaban, Feta1, Fireman_Fred, fishgodeep, flamemax, freddy333, gavidoc, georgegrasser, Golfman, grebeck, hambone, Heywood, hooky, Hyster, Jetsons, jfreeman420, jiainsmith, Jimster, jkarpas, jkerouac, jmt, Jon Fort, jot9011, jsmith11, LeGambleur, llsteve80, longshot, LordRasta, magagne, mezzanine, Mickey Padge, milwaukee, musicale, newf, pafre, paneraitom, phaedo, pizzanooo, pobiga, porsche356a, POTR, promotersf, redbird, rek001, Richard Tracy, rodwc, rosnik, rower, ryyannon, Sailinjack, scoobs1971, seadweller3, section8, skool, slai, Snow Dog, stilty, stormtooper4, Surpur, swdivad, tankster, tanya, TeeJay, tictoc21, Toadtorrent, Tom Hawkes, TomRiddle, toomuchgear, tooth, Victoria, Virgil Hilts, vlydog, w.genzo, watchski, Woody, xlr8tn, YankeeFan, Z3k0, argie1972, azerbyjam, b16a2, bbell6, bklm1234, BobM, Chicken Manny, chieftang, chinkiechunkie, cskent69, dave_nyc, deltatahoe, dlgates, doc savage, dvn, gr81, jamesg, jd6753, jimbo, kasigi, kosemkamtsan, lanikai, LifterCatcher, m4rcus, Martyd3, mikellem, MK08, omegaunit, paneraifreak, pete2528ca, phoband, Pix, Pizza-Man, rocket754, Shundi, SubFrog, t, Tjabo, TK471, UB7, EuroTimez,

Manticore, SkinnyConHeo, 20Babies, 888, 92tru, abakan, Adeeos, ajoesmith, ajr, AlaskaBandit, aleksandr, AmonRaa, andreww, andyaudi42, arminvanbuuren, arty909, asad, assasi9, avitt, azmindreader, bali69, barbosas, bazonkers, bbrenner, bfb, bhouseski, BigDuhty, bigweirdman, Bill Vest, Bll, bluebite, BOBALOO, boncovi, boston21, breukelen, bribo, Brodie, bu3baid, buckeye, BWL, capt_cope, castelano, catchthecat, catfish, cd56, cdv, chicago83, chisco, chrgod, Chronus, cigardave007, cntrl, cobalta70, Coeuss, Cognoscente, condemore, Corgi, corpsman, crick0234, Croolis, Cucumber_Jones, cweiss, czarczar, dajakal, Dario33, Dave123, davgaz, david-aussie, dcam207, Dear-Daniel, deep1, deepitch, Delboy, diggs, Dilliam, dippy, DIVANO, dnz, doug, dragonplayboy, drop, drqtn44, dsp5500, eculuke, eddiesham, Edwin25, ehjac, ek300is, el niche, elisiX, esdee, evildee, ewing, exsupra, fat.tail.event, Father Time, fathom, fendushi, ferrariz, fido, fijikid, finn07, Fish, flak73, flash, fourayes, francodino, frankbullit, frankpower88, gabrielndg, galevin, gatorfan44, geo1962, george1, Gil, gillorin, Glitch, gman, gonzomo, Greystash, gromnie, gruppa, HammerTime, hanslin31, Hi-Standard, highoeyazmuhudee, i5475p, iFiNi, iflylow78, iglutikut, indyberetta, Intrigued, irf, ispolef, italiano17771, its_urabus, iwc, Jagger, jarpo, Jasonet23, javiers, jayhawkcwe, jc233, jdavis, jdfaker, jdinjax, jdm65, jds, jeff212, jerkulot, jes3287, jetzeus, jfa657, jimjen178, jitai, jj69, jkspepper, jnagy, john61, johnnyallthetime, jonas, Jonathan, jovi, JustJamie, Kaidoy, kbh, kelly, kevin300z, khizrs, kidge007, kiropraktor, klocklind1, KnicksFan13, kye_lin, laffy, la_polla, lc001, letibjorn, lexibabe, lim888, lionsandtigers, lishper, Lishu, lnoblesus, lololo33, loman88, loopzilla, luckyman, m5smg2, MacDad22, madscientist18, Magiko, magpye, maitoo, marianetty, Mark Eleven, markevo6, Marrickvilleboy, mat944, maxgohan, maximus65, mb1, mbpa, McRae, mdg137, medphreak, meridius77, mgold4357, Michaellre, MikeC65, mikkoaa, MimiSars, mobitz ii, monster667, mr.big, MyNameIsPeterAndImOld, Natron1, Nebakanezzar, nellyandnoah, nembo, neuhoover, Newdoc, newkid, Nightstroker, nil, Noel Fleischer, Norm, nstinksux, NuTymer, nutz522, old skool, omeega, OutSider, Overture, owdeguy, Oxi, palhaco02, Pam111, PAM249, pamfried, pammo13, paneristi_man, pascal, patches007, PATerai, pcturtakr, pearly, peepshow, Perpetual Oyster, perry563, PhilR, PHVA, picaditocr, piratedzeus, pitbos, pivaro, plant, poopypants, poutine, predfan2001, prince458, ProjectWatch, pwygant, qt11, quicksand, R7th01, radiohead101, randomfunk, rapidascent, rastapopolos, ratchpot, realthomas, red, reelamore, relojero_5588, replica08, rexon, rickds, river, rl350z, rnewbie, robertk, Rock Flint, rogerwine, Rolex Sub 19, RONNIE RHINO, rufeuz, Ruppy, rwc007, sakalam, Samurai, sb1919, sharpie, shura110, silvio, Sir Jon, sixbennetts, skotty, Sniff, solchitlins, sox123, soysauce8, spike, Sql_pl, stac, stockey, stolo, suburbangrown, sweet, swemoose, szvwj, TA8088, tenacious_b, the cleaner, The Mentalist, themuck, thinh, timbo, tjul, togasa, tootall, torontowatches, trekracer20, trustywatchguy, tutima, twicebaked, Tx Walker, txrob779, ubiquitous, ufgolf69, Ukmerctechie, UncleJay, unokuul, user197a, USMC8404, Vanayr, vdubpower, vootzilla, vric, Vuu, vwc, waltercarl2, Watchwatcher, wflinn, wiking, wisconsin1, wombat247, XL2000, yt74, zenpang, Ztech, Blindedbylight, joanne norris

[StormTooper4]

Guys

I understand your frustrations, going through a similar process myself.

But there are some great folks on this forum, I've only been a buyer myself but have bought stuff from deltatahoe , Verbal Kint and toomuchgear and they have all been fun to buy from. There will always be one or 2 bad apples , but don't think they are all there is.

ST

[Dani]

Do like me ignore such pm's whit low ball offers.

and set in the sale post what you whant and have you whant the money.

[arminvanbuuren]

well ive had worst.. ive had someone bought from me an eta submariner with stampings on the movement and everything.. paid 120 for it (the price of the eta movement itself not to add that the movement just been serviced).. he got the watch then threatened me saying that it wasnt an eta movement.. and wanted me to refund the whole thing.. :S

[ryyannon]

Do like me ignore such pm's whit low ball offers.

and set in the sale post what you whant and have you whant the money.

Better yet, either refuse to sell to non-supporting members, or at the very least, always give preference to a supporting member.

[Watchmeister]

There will always be difficult people. And yes, when I do sell I try and dea with folks I know. But have you tried selling a gen on TZ or Watchnet? It is no different with the gens. And we won't even comment on the bay where more than half the offerings have some form of scam involved. So don't feel too bad.

[KB]

well ive had worst.. ive had someone bought from me an eta submariner with stampings on the movement and everything.. paid 120 for it (the price of the eta movement itself not to add that the movement just been serviced).. he got the watch then threatened me saying that it wasnt an eta movement.. and wanted me to refund the whole thing.. :S

Do you have pic's of the watch movement?

Ken

[V]

Chris it was also like this in the past.. Nothing has changed

Just more members, more transactions hence more possibilities to happen to you

[chris5264]

There will always be difficult people. And yes, when I do sell I try and dea with folks I know. But have you tried selling a gen on TZ or Watchnet? It is no different with the gens. And we won't even comment on the bay where more than half the offerings have some form of scam involved. So don't feel too bad.

thanks,,,actually my frustrations were coming from two ads I had on tz and WUS,,,not even this forum. It was sillly to get upset,,,I mean,,,people are as they are. There will always be someone looking for an even better deal,,just the way it is.

[cornerstone]

It's also why reputations are part of forum life too. An unknown buyer is exactly that - they could be great, they could be a total frickin' loon.

[so if anyone is still lurking, there are benefits to stepping out from the shadows and saying hello!! ]

[Watchmeister]

Yeah, TZ and Watchnet have the same issues and there is a lot more money at stake. I also believe that it has gotten more difficult here as the prices have in general gotten higher and so the stakes are also higher. And you never know which buyer is buying on a lark or eating hot dogs for the next week to pay for that rep.

[andreww]

The thing that I find frustrating about the sales area is that it has become too busy. Fairly priced watches will sell in a matter of minutes, so there really is no opportunity to do any research about the watch or the seller. Sometimes the pics are bad, and requesting better ones is useless, because someone else will just buy the watch before better pics are posted.

The other thing that I see a lot of is people selling used watches for higher prices than you would pay at Silix, WoMart, etc. Sure, the seller may have paid $300 plus shipping from Trusty several months back, and $250 may sound like a fair price, but other dealers may sell the same watches for $225. Also, there is no warranty with a new watch. A used, unwarranted watch should be 75% of dealer pricing at best.

I know its not good forum manners, but sometimes I'd like to post in some sales thread that you can buy the same watch, new, for $50 cheaper!

Edited March 24, 2008 by andreww

[mezzanine]

That's a great post, andreww. The economics of the rep market is sometimes a little irrational. There are positive aspects to it, but for the most part it's become less useful for those looking to upgrade their collection than in the past.

I think the whole super-rep phenomenon has changed the economics. Also, there is a more anonymous culture here than there has been in the past. That contributes to the risk of having something go wrong during a transaction.

I wish that certain watches weren't allowed to be sold on the sales board. For example, modded MBW's that have genuine parts are a greater security risk, and I don't think that some dude looking for the best sub should have the ability to come in and make bids. The reason is not because I want to disadvantage the seller to get the best price possible, but the security of the transaction doesn't get 'priced' into the equation.

You're dealing with a newb or a person who is not sure what they're doing/buying and all of a sudden the extra 20 bucks that they paid over someone else is irrelevant.

That's my biggest grievance- the reputation or reliability of the 'member' doesn't get priced into the equation. This is a lesson that is as old as time itself, as far as replica watches are concerned. It's why a couple of years ago, I don't think that anyone would've bought from Paul at Wo-Mart over Josh, even thought Paul's prices may have been much cheaper. The understanding that value does not always equate with price in the rep world doesn't always get priced into the equation.

What's especially unfortunate is when members who are aware of these value factors that go beyond the price, end up getting taken advantage of when they're selling their watches in all honesty and at fair prices. Some newbs will drop in and start making low-balls or claims about things they don't really know about, and undermine the sale of otherwise honest members. Usually they slide in under the guise of being 'new' and really motivated to learn and participate. The reality is that they're trying to elicit sympathy from those that they wish to in some way take advantage of, whether through their knowledge or through their actual sale.

It's a situation where one bad experience with a newb like that, and you're done with it and want the sales board shut down to those with under 200 posts.

[92tru]

hey guys, im new around these parts, but tell me more about this super-rep phenomenon thats been growing?

i actually was looking for a crystal to replace a broken rep PAM063 i had kicking around, but that appeared to be just the tip of the iceburg once i found this forum. the knowledge here is great and i hope not to dilute the rep-culture that cultivates around here!

i've noticed the rep-resale market moves really fast, but i can't figure out why that would be, unless the piece is modded etc... i doubt that the watches go out of production? im surprised that some ppl don't look for specific runs or batches to choose from... as movements accuracy is seldomly mentioned in the ads - is that just splitting hairs?

[andreww]

@mez, good points!

@92tru, from what I can see, there are many members that belong to this forum simply to monitor the sales section. This makes actually purchasing a watch very difficult. Have your money ready! As I said in my previous post, being quick to purchase also increases your risk of a bad transaction. Although resale prices have risen as of late, once shipping costs are factored in, a used watch can be a bargain. Models that have aftermarket AR, lume or gen parts are always more sought after.

[Cats]

I sold only 2 watches in this community.

Both were nice friendly and speedy deals.

My last deal with Esdee went very smooth.

Agree if people start asking questions and thinking you will keep the watch for them untill they decide to buy it's their problem if the watch is sold .

Bottum line when was the last time you had .... answer : 2 weeks ago

Carpe Diem

Cats

[capice]

I'm not around long enough to notice the above but I think in any salestransaction these things happen

[fotoman]

with size - you get more good members, you also get more yahoos

theoretically, size makes dealers more interested in your business and more willing to compete for lower pricing.

Well, we learned that doesn't work - the bigger our total board community has gotten the higher the prices have gotten.

This is of course better than the old days when everything was a secret, new members got quoted high prices and older got quoted lower.

But, i can't move through the same number of watches that i used to.

There are also way less bargains out there for used watches - at the same time, there is a good market for selling used.

ALl trade offs.

only thing i wish is we had a place to discuss concerns outside of the non-supporting types - outside of the ear of the masses. - Maybe i should spend more time in the VIP threads

[anton]

speaking of private sales, people (in general) are completely oblivious when pricing their watch.

if it broke, take some $$$ off because i have to spend some to fix it.

if there are dents, take some $$$ off too!

and yes, I do care that you send your crystal off to Poland, had it serviced in Canada, and etc. But how do you factor in your prices? Do you take me for an idiot?

and the dealers, they will push the threshold higher and higher to know what our limits to pay are. you know, no matter what they charge, someone will always be the early adopter (like me with the HBB).

[chris5264]

thanks for the comments,,,,,

the universe has a strange sense of humor,,,,

right after I wrote this I had two of the best deals I've ever had. The first was a watch that was totally upgraded with all the best options. None of this was mentioned in the ad, so I was very happy when I got it yesterday. The second was a trade deal where someone basically trading me a 650 (usd) watch for a 400 dollar watch just because he didn't feel like selling.

I do think the numbers make things more complex and risky,,,,but I should be pleased....I typically put a lot of trust in people and after well over 100 deals (I'm afraid of the actual number) I've still never been seriously mistreaded,,,just a few annoying little things.