Pix Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Appointment is taken on 30th june, here, in this very thread. We'll see then who still feels relaxed. Any other feeback ? The owners of the 60+ crystals/watches ? Something's in the air, and hopefully it will speed up things... Thx to the person organizing the riposte. @TJ : you may be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Any other feeback ? The owners of the 60+ crystals/watches ? Something's in the air, and hopefully it will speed up things... Thx to the person organizing the riposte. @TJ : you may be right. If this was to get taken to the police, I'm sure that a defense of "But they're illegal fake watches!!!1" will come out, but, regardless of the legalities of the watches (which aren't illegal to own) it won't change the fact that X product was offered, and Y product received, and it would also be scientifically provable that Chieftang's Military-grade AR is superior (in many ways) to optical grade AR, which might have been used in these cases. In a case like this, where someone has offered a particular service, been paid for it, and then issued a sub-standard replacement 'service', then I believe that UK consumer rights are squarely behind the buyer in this instance. Doubly so, as, not only could it be proven that the AR coats are different, but, the other angle, is that people were paying for a service, which was not provided to their satisfaction (which, for example, is why people are not legally obliged to pay for a bad haircut, as the barber was paid to perform a service, and failed to do so to the expected standard) Best of luck getting it all resolved [Edit to add] If not the police, certainly Trading Standards... The only thing to remember to stress, is that the two AR processes produce different results, so just because they might say "The crystal was AR coated..." that's still very different to a crystal being Cheiftang AR coated, and that was what people were expecting and paying for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMK000 Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Guys, for some of us is not just an AR issue. We haven't received anything at all , ...... neither crystals nor watches. Several Items are currently at Rocketeers hands and we do not know what we will receive or even worse, if we will ever receive something. That situation with Rocketeer, day by day, it looks more and more like the "K2222 latest stage". At the end ......, broken communication , dealer disappears, items lost for ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 The difference with K2222 is that there is something currently organized, for members who have come here to explain their concrete case (the others, i.e. several dozens are unknown, so nothing can be done). We know his address and many private datas, and also Rocketeer has a legal business which might be directly threatened by his failure in his rep business. He's trapped and won't run far... As bad as this thread is considered, it seems to be useful. And I'm a bit more positive about some results soon, thanks to some members doing what they have to (and more for one especially) What is certain is that broken watches there are and will be, disappointments also, but at least the stuff which is by Rocketeer won't stay there. I encourage any silent scammed member to post here about his case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Guys, for some of us is not just an AR issue. We haven't received anything at all , ...... neither crystals nor watches. Several Items are currently at Rocketeers hands and we do not know what we will receive or even worse, if we will ever receive something. That situation with Rocketeer, day by day, it looks more and more like the "K2222 latest stage". At the end ......, broken communication , dealer disappears, items lost for ever. In that case, again, UK Trading Standards might be able to help, in so much as finding ways to retrieve the items and refunds, as the items have not been worked on as promised (again, this would count as a 'service being provided for financial restitution', and, UK Trading Standards protects buyers who feel that the 'service they received' was not as agreed/described/or in any other way unsatisfactory) There may even be a possibility of restitution should anything be returned in such a way that it would require another watch smith to work on it to put things right... I know these are replica watches, but there are legal avenues which can be investigated, and probably much more desirable than sending the boys round Best of luck with any resolutions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 This is the closest I can find on a quick search, but hopefully it will be of some comfort to people... Hypothetical Question: I took my leather boots to be reheeled at a local shoe repairers. When I collected them I noticed that the leather on one of the shoes had a bad scratch. These were quite new, expensive boots. What are my rights? Legal Answer: Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (as amended) the repairers should exercise reasonable care and skill whilst reheeling your boots. Any damage caused by them through their negligence or lack of care should be put right at their expense. If the boots can't be repaired, then you are entitled to 'reasonable' compensation. Further reading: Source: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastmampf Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 I`ve sent 5 crystals (only the crystals) to Rocket at the beginning of March. I have got an email from him a few weeks ago that he has got the crystals back from Chief, 3 were ok but 2 of them has some AR failures. Anyhow since this email i have not heard anything more from Rocket. This really sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMK000 Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 In that case, again, UK Trading Standards might be able to help, in so much as finding ways to retrieve the items and refunds, as the items have not been worked on as promised (again, this would count as a 'service being provided for financial restitution', and, UK Trading Standards protects buyers who feel that the 'service they received' was not as agreed/described/or in any other way unsatisfactory) There may even be a possibility of restitution should anything be returned in such a way that it would require another watch smith to work on it to put things right... I know these are replica watches, but there are legal avenues which can be investigated, and probably much more desirable than sending the boys round Best of luck with any resolutions TJ , I guess you are right. Lets see where we gonna end up with this. .... and I will also like to thank a (suffering) member here that is organizing a way to get back our stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 TJ , I guess you are right. Lets see where we gonna end up with this. .... and I will also like to thank a (suffering) member here that is organizing a way to get back our stuff. Let's just hope it all ends amicably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 Let's hope... My problem is that I'm as spiteful with foes as I'm faithful to friends : Rocketeer will not stay unpunished. He's crossed the red line since long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 I know these are replica watches, but there are legal avenues which can be investigated Since UK Trading Standards is in charge of all criminal sanctions related to the sale of counterfeit goods inside the UK, this may not be in the top ten of great ideas you've ever had.... Anyone pursuing legal avenues over reps is not going to win any popularity contests around here either. The venting and frustration is understandable, but really people will have to cross-fingers and see how it plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Although I would rather not admit It because I like to be In the majority, conerstone Is right Imho. We must always remember that we are involved In a counterfeit product. I do wish everyone well with there watches/crystals Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Rocketeer is in a much more difficult situation than we are : he is gathering counterfeit goods and offers different kind of services on it. If my reps were to be confiscated to enable him to fall, I would even pay for that. Most of his customers are abroad, I don't think it would lead to anything more than confiscation, honestly. In the worst case. Besides, he has a large part of his service done on watch crystals only. That's where he's going to have real problems. From my side, I don't intend to use legal means for now, not with a scammer, there are others.. Those who know his real identity will find immediately his face on the web, for easier recognition. Just google him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therooster Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 ...and besides... all that is needed is an anonymous tip. Or a little call to HM Revenue & Customs... I'd like to see how much of his income from watch repairs, AR, etc he declares and pays income tax on. I don't think he would roll out the red carpet for the tax auditors when they knock on his door. And as some of us know and have already discussed, there are many many options that we can rely on, which ultimately may not lead to our property being returned, but would probably ruin the guy and his business. But look, I'm sure all of this stuff won't be necessary and I keep urging people to stay cool. Scaring the guy and bullying him won't make things any easier. I know some guys here disagree with me, but I don't think he's a reckless idiot or a scammer. He's just someone who made a series of mistakes and bad choices, which have snowballed, and hasn't been able to deal with them properly and quickly enough... And things have just been getting worse and worse. I'm sure it's as much in his interest as it is in ours to bring this nasty story to a close and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Yeah - no anonymous tips or calls to HM Customs asking for rep watches back please. Or for that matter veiled threats, baseball bats, or tickling with intent, etc., etc. I keep urging people to stay cool. Scaring the guy and bullying him won't make things any easier. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedo Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Or for that matter veiled threats, baseball bats, or tickling with intent, etc., etc. Wait, I missed the post where they were going to send Julian Clarey to pay him a visit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 (...) but I don't think he's a reckless idiot or a scammer (...) I'm wondering about that point, as I'm wondering about his mental health. Again, let me reconfirm he's been doing what he wanted with our watches and crystals since the beginning. He knew from march on that he would not send most of our crystals to Chief, and prepared his blatant lies to make us pay full load for a greenish AR and/or screwed watches. Multiplied by 30-60 + the prepaid jobs, that's a bunch of money. Isn't that a scam ? Then what is it ? A simple mistake ???? Wow, maybe I should think about making mistakes more often... Or for that matter veiled threats, baseball bats, or tickling with intent, etc., etc. I'm wondering... Not later than last week, he again confirmed to some members he sent their watch back, with tracking number and so on... Tracking number which actually does not exist. Isn't that insulting his customers ? What's the purpose ? Once you tried everything, what are really the options ? 1) Legal dpt ? 2) Leave it and wait for the next scammer to steal our goods ? 3) Get back by any mean what belongs to you ? As most of us noticed, we're in an illegal hobby. There are not many options, and I don't think anyone wants option 2. One more thing : as long as we're gesticulating here (I'm thinking to my own case, as I'm also targeted by the previous posts), Rocketeer is safe, it means we're still expecting something to happen (I don't know if I should call this hope or naivety) These are only gesticulations. Once we stop complaining (or whining), it may mean Rocketeer has to worry about his business and physcical integrity... Look back at when that thread was launched (there were precursory signs in other threads, in Chieftang's section) : no single answer from Rocketeer (could have been time to do so, at the beginning at least). Isn't that contempt ? Is that a mistake ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 (...)veiled threats(...) From my side, nothing veiled, Corner, it's very clear that if I don't get my watches and money back, I'll go there and kick his bl**dy ass. It's been clear in many posts. It's all the more frustrating that he's not only spoiling watches : he's spoiling the job which was already done on some of them. What about spending large money on a relume, then have your patiently modded rep screwed by Rocketeer ? And we should have understanding ? 2 weeks left, and we reach the 5 monthes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'll go there and kick his bl**dy ass. It's been clear in many posts. Said in jest of course Pix....given that making a public written threat would be injudicious. Besides the guy lives in Milton Keynes. Nobody volunteers to go there - they only go if they have to attend a conference on cardboard manufacturing. There's no easy answer. It's always possible that your property is gone. Sometimes unfair things happen. I'm not trying to be harsh - I'm just saying. On the plus side - I don't think he'll get too many takers for his second AR run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therooster Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Yeah - no anonymous tips or calls to HM Customs asking for rep watches back please. Or for that matter veiled threats, baseball bats, or tickling with intent, etc., etc. HM Revenue & Customs is the IRS of the UK. They'd be interested in the revenue and tax issues arising from his "legit" business, Tuff Time. I doubt RRWP is a legal entity. But anyway, that's just hypothetical and to make the point that if someone didn't care anymore about getting their watches back, there are many options to get back at the guy, some of which are obviously extreme. I am not suggesting that they should be pursued. Just making it clear that it's as much in Rocketeer's interest as in ours to resolve the issue amicably. And "threats" (in the loose sense of the word) are perfectly fine as long as they don't cross the line, don't become abusive, and remain ethical. Telling the other party what you plan to do when things don't go as expected is part of standard commercial practice. It is perfectly ok for a disgruntled customer to tell an opportunistic service provider that he intends to do something about an unsutisfactory situation. If options weren't available to us we'd be taken advantage of even more often. But I stress that these actions should stay within reason and not resort to fear and intimidation as they never really bear any fruit IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Since UK Trading Standards is in charge of all criminal sanctions related to the sale of counterfeit goods inside the UK, this may not be in the top ten of great ideas you've ever had.... Anyone pursuing legal avenues over reps is not going to win any popularity contests around here either. The venting and frustration is understandable, but really people will have to cross-fingers and see how it plays out. I know, and at the end of the day, I appreciate that some folks are into Rocketeer for more than just ARd crystals, but, who's to say how they got said watch in the first place? Maybe they won it at a buddy's playing poker... Maybe a friend gave it to them to settle a debt... Maybe it was a gift... Maybe they just didn't want to pay an overpriced 'in house' service charge... Plenty of defences people could use should it come to it (which it most likely wouldn't), and, as Pix mentioned, most likely lead to confiscations at worse... At the end of the day, if Rocketeer is not providing the services he has been paid for, then that is an actionable tort under UK law. The nature of the watch the crystals came from is irrelevent... He's been paid to provide X, and has provided Y, or, taken unreasonably long times to return goods or resolve the issues. That is all actionable. I agree, threats are not the way to go, and are in themselves, breaches of the Malicious Communications Act and Protection from Harassment Act, and could potentially be actionable, although, it would likely be appreciated that any such 'threats' were being made out of frustration rather than outright malice... As Pix pointed out, the AR sounds like a pre-meditated scam, so it would not be unreasonable for someone (and an industry professional at that) to maybe take a little official heat for it. I'm not trying to stir anything up here, I've just tried to provide relevent legislature that might be of help to people. I do appreciate that this isn't a legal hobby, I just find it frustrating to think that people decide that they can prey on the community(s) here, and get away with it, because people feel they can't go to the authorities... Given how the Jakub Incident has panned out, it's pretty clear that sitting back and seeing how it plays out, can result in someone going AWOL without resolving the issues, and people being down cash and property... Just my .2c... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 On the plus side - I don't think he'll get too many takers for his second AR run... (...)And "threats" (in the loose sense of the word) are perfectly fine as long as they don't cross the line, don't become abusive, and remain ethical. Telling the other party what you plan to do when things don't go as expected is part of standard commercial practice.(...) @Roo : in all honesty, does the threat of a kick in the b*lls sound out of proportion, abusive or enethical ? Is there anyone here who would not be convinced of the efficiency of this cure ? (I mean for the one granting it ?) As mentionned before, I'm convinced that there are members less in a mood to post public intimidation (or call it as you want) than me, and who will (or have already) just act(ed). Which is sure, is that I won't sit as a duck and wait (I know you won't either) Eventually we can discuss any ethical, economical, legal or philosophical aspect concerning Rocketeer (should I add medical ?), in the end of the day, we've been blatantly lied, manipulated, taken for idiots, and are about to loose our property (I have a total value of more than 600 dollars in the game). In real life, you might get much more than just my foot in the *ss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweattdogg Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 If I was him I'd be pretty scared. He has many watches/enemies and doesn't know what a single one of you looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted July 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 And we know how he looks like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sander Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Although I received 6 poorly AR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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