automatico

A friend can make near perfecto numbers and letters with his old Hermes pantograph engraver but he is ornery as a Billygoat and won't do it. He did a couple DW cases for me before he took the studs and he said the case metal was 'soft as butter' so it was not wearing his cutter tip out or anything. I even tried to $$bribe him and he said "Not No! but Hell No!!" ...so I tried to buy his engraver. I offered CA$H Money! (most traders would want it on credit) He said "Get the #%&k out of here!!" (it's not the first time, we been friends for years) Guess I'll just have to shoot him. ...and deal with his wife. Or maybe have him committed to a looney bin because I have proof he's Crazy. He just bought 90 Accutrons! Ninety! Nine Zero!! Maybe I made him mad when I said they were not worth the batts it would take to get them running. That's when he went for his gun. It's all true except the gun part. Hee Haw!

alligoat is right in the 1555/56 being mostly a 1575. I have a 1556 and it is almost the same movement as a 1575 except for the date parts and DD at the beginning of the serial number. DD = Day/Date D = Date numbers only = no date no numbers = not a certified chronometer I would bet most Day/Date watches had 1555 or 1556 stamped on the rotor plate because this was their top of the line watch and they wanted everything to be right. 1055 D/D = 18000 bph with 1030 type escapement 1555 D/D = 18000 bph with 1560 type escapement 1556 D/D = 19800 bph with 1570 type escapement 1055 D/D introduced 1954 1555 D/D introduced 1959 1556 D/D introduced 1965 Not many 1055 runners left because of No Parts 4 U.

Have not seen a vintage 1016 type watch with a white dial except in pictures but I have a modern style white dial Exp I with applied markers, glass crystal, no hole case, and Miyota clone. Can not remember where it came from, it's been 6 or 7 years. Yuki might be able to get a dial printed but it would probably take a couple months and cost extra. I have had quite a few dials refinished in the USA by 4 or 5 different dial companies but none turned out any better than the average Yuki dial and most were not too hot. Kirk Rich Dial in LA Cal was the best but they are high $$...about $180 including return shipping for the last 'California' dial I had done (iirc on price). It was an old ratty 1680 dial that I had KRD turn into an OPD 'California' dial. Almost all dial companies require the dial you send to be refinished as a 'rolex' dial to be a rolex dial to begin with...no blanks or brand name change. Submariner to OPD was Ok. No dials with applied markers changed to painted marker dials...one exception is if they can cover the marker foot holes with California type numbers etc without having to fill the holes. Filling holes = a lot more $$. You could probably get by with sending a Yuki etc 1016 dial for a 1560/70 and have it refinished in white. A dial with Eta dial feet might not pass. KRD can probably tint the white to make it look aged.

From experience I will say this: Do not blow it all on a case. Why? Because when you grow tired of the watch (and you will), a used Phong case is not worth a whole lot except right here. Right here = this forum or others like it. What is so great about a Phong case? I do not really know but everyone says they are very good and have super good serial numbers. You need proof? Ok, I have a Phong 1655 case and it is very good. The serial numbers are super good...but they do not show. The Yuki dial recommendation is good. Why? Because they are relatively inexpensive and pretty good overall. If you get a dud, sell it or send it back and buy another one. The 1560 is a good choice. Why? Because a Yuki 5512 dial will fit a 1560. Something else...iirc most high $$ aftmkt 5512 cases are made like the later cases...a little bit thicker with an O ring under the crystal retaining bezel etc and the 1560 came in thinner cases without the top O ring etc, etc. What I am trying to say is: No matter how much $$ you spend, you still have a Frankenstein and a Frankenstein with a $1200 case. $1000 movement, $500 dial, and $500 bracelet looks just like a Frankenstein with a $500 case, $200 movement, $110 dial, and $150 bracelet. The only difference in actual worth is the 1560 and genuine bracelet. Go low to medium $$ the first time around and see how you like it. Why? Because a monkey wearing a $4k Tuxedo is still just a monkey...and a $1000 monkey beats a $4000 monkey. I rest my case.

Day/Date movements of this era have DD at the beginning of the movement serial number...problem is the serial number does not show.

eBay item 221242705414 Can you beat this? Anyone who buys unsigned 'genuine' stuff at these prices has entered into the netherworld of absolute insanity. Imho. I have a few hundred in assorted sizes. Unsigned of course. They cost about $10 a gross. Or less.

My journey through watchdom has been a lot like panerai153's. The problem (as I see it) is I sold all the good stuff too soon and kept all the junk...at least that's the way it seems now. As for replicas, I still have quite a few put away but usually wear a quartz watch of some sort or a Frankenstein 5512 or 5513. I seldom wear an outright replica (call me a watchsnob). I guess you could say I have a collection of nos replicas...'Paul/Abay' submariners, Exp II, GMT II, no date Exp, a few 36mm AK, a couple Exp II and SD from River, a dozen F520117 'Noobmariners'. 2 or 3 overgrown Daytonas ( oversize cases/20mm bracelets) with Sea Gull ST19 etc. I recently ran across a swisseta GMT II with a loose dial marker that has been in my 'fixit box' since November 2004 (I put notes on them). I have a big fixit box. Also have 3 nos 'WLD' no date swisseta submariners from 1999 that I got when WLD was on TRC before he went south. Anyone remember Watchloverdavid aka "Your friend, David." "Friend" Ha! He burned my azz. I kept a few pretty good genuine odds and ends like UG Polerouter, Zodiac Sea Wolf etc and a box of solid gold vintage watches. I thought about selling the gold watches for scrap but I just could not do it. Out of them all, the only one I scrapped was a rectangular Japan market 18k Citizen quartz watch with doa movement and no parts available. I have a couple gold rolex watches and there is not much gold in a genuine rolex case but if gold gets high enough, I will scrap them justforthehellofit. but not any of the USA made watches. Bulovas had the heaviest solid gold cases I have seen but they had some lightweights too as the snap back case for the 1953 round automatic I worked on a couple weeks ago only weighed 10 grams.

"Is the gap too much?" Looks fine to me. It's only .7mm divided by 2. I have some 'GMT' cases with 7mm crowns and they would look bad...like a Jeep Wrangler with 13 inch wheels.

Can I use a TC dwo for 2824 on 2836? As far as I know yes as long as there is enough room between the dwo and dial. A 2836 has a little bit more room between the dw and dial than a 2824 after the day of the week stuff is removed. This may be one reason why many replicas use the 2836.

Many aftmkt hands (and some oem hands) will need to be broached to fit, that's a fact of life. The last four sets of ST hands made for a 1530 rolex had to be broached (one for 1603 DJ, three for 5513). I do not look at it as a defect just an aggravation to be tended to. I use a diamond broach on the H and M hands then follow with a smoothing broach (no flutes) and use a home made .2mm broach on the second hand. The diamond broach is quick and dirty but less likely to catch in the hole and bend a hand. I hold the hands in Saran Wrap to keep finger prints off and also use Saran Wrap between the hands and hand press when mounting them to prevent scratches. You must be careful when covering the hands with SR because it is slick and the hand tool can slip off and whack the dial. For this reason, I always fit the hands to a movement with a spare dial plate or rough dial so r/r the hands a few times will not damage the dial to be used on the watch. My second hand broaches are made from needles or pins stuck in a wooden dowel and I just run the ends across a diamond hone in four steps to make four flats to create cutting flutes, then try the 'broach' in a spare hand and see if it is the right size. It is hit or miss and I usually have quite a few home made broaches of various sizes. Be careful not to cut the rivet away from inside the tube with a broach that is too long. If you cut an H or M hand too big you are usually out of luck unless you do not need to tighten it very much and can get by with maybe putting 3 or 4 dimples with a sharp screwdriver etc on the bottom of the hand to create some friction. Second hands can be tightened up in a small pin vise, lathe collet, or by putting a crimp or two in the tube with pinching tweezers or...fingernail clippers! Many 'old timer' watch fixers used fingernail clippers to tighten canon pinions. I use a Bergeon 2803 most of the time but it is basically a fancy toenail clipper.

To me, the gap between the crown guards and crown is the problem and the watch in the pictures does not show much of a gap no matter what the crown size is. I think when you put a 5.3mm crown in a 6.0mm crown space the gap gives it away more than the od of the 6mm crown in closely fitting crown guards. Imho.

Does Prozac make a watch? I know a potential customer.

If it ain't broke... Imho it can go both ways depending on the way the watch is treated and how much it has been worn. I have worked on quite a few rolex 1520/30/60/70 over the years and I have seen them from shot to like new in watches made within a few years of each other. Usually the case will tell the story of how well a watch has been cared for but not always. A couple examples... I am working on an old 1560 and it looks to have been apart quite a few times because the screw heads show some damage and you can see where the sweep second wheel has been pulled off a few times by the marks on the plate under the spokes etc but it is still in very good condition overall with no problems. I would say this is an average 1560 that has been serviced a few times, four or five times maybe. I know it had at least one new balance staff because I did it (staff was broken). It has been apart a few times but is still good for many years to come, maybe because of the service done to it over the years, maybe not...who knows? Have a 1520 hack from probably the mid 1970s to early 1980s and it appears to never have been apart, runs fine, and looks like brand new. Maybe it was in a drawer most of the time but it has not been worked on as far as I can tell. It would need c/o before wearing it but basically it is like new and since I do not have the case it came in there is no telling what kind of life it lived. Believe me, I put quite a bit of stock in the "If it ain't broke..." philosophy too but this movement definitely needs c/o even if it runs like a top. Why? Because it is dry with no oil at all showing on most parts. What will happen is: 1...the rotor axle will wear and start wobbling and the rotor will start to skip across the plate under it 1...the reversers will gum up and stop working as they should 3...balance wheel motion will get lazy because of dry pallet stones/escape wheel and balance jewels causing timekeeping to become erratic and maybe wear the balance staff pivots out 4...the main plate where the mainspring arbor runs will wear out of round from being dry (no bushing or jewel) 5...the mainspring barrel wall will get dry and the bridle (slip clutch) on the ms will not slip inside the barrel when fully wound causing autowind problems Etc, etc. Because of the potential ailments above, it needs service even if it leaves a few marks. The fast beat models (3000/3035/3130/3135) have their ailments too but mostly from no service causing autowind assembly problems and timekeeping problems from dry escapements. Otoh...I worked on a rolex 3035 a while back that was made in the 1980s and had never been cleaned. It looked dry but was Ok with no wear and the case (OPD 15010) showed a rough life. Also c/o a 1953 (L3) 14k Bulova with a 10CSC automatic movement last week that has been in my 'fix it' box since December 1996 and the case still looks like new but the movement appeared to have been worked on quite a few times. Someone really took care of this watch. The dial was faded and peeling so I had the dial refinished and now it looks like new again...at 61 years old.

One good thing about an Asian etaclone is you can swap them out for a genuine Eta when they blow up. With a low or high beat Miyota clone there is nowhere to go except back with another myoclone because the dial and hands will not interchange with an Eta. Exact replacement high beat myoclones are hard to find because most of them come with a low canon pinion and the hands will be too close to the dial...might be able to swap the high cp/hour wheel out to the new movement though. Otoh when you pay the ransom for a swiss Eta it may be an old movement that needs attention or replacing. If it was my $$, I would go for the Plain Jane etaclone and be on the lookout for a fresh swiss eta just in case...but only if the watch is a 'keeper'. And then there is always 'Rep Rule #1' to consider... "There Ain't No Keepers" ...except a few Frankensteins. So who knows? Maybe an etaclone will last as long as you want to keep the watch. (After proof reading this post it seems I said nothing of value as usual)

You would have to be able to see into the future in order to make the right decision but my advice is to stick with what you have. The only way to make $$ in the watch biz is to own a factory, be a distributor, own the rights to a brand name etc...not selling them retail. When I was 23 years old (a long time ago) I had one of the best jobs in the world as far as I was concerned...outside a lot in absolutely beautiful surroundings, but I always wanted to work in a motorcycle shop because I was a motorcycle freak. I started working in a MC shop a little bit after class while in high school and worked part time in MC shops 1982 through 2006. I learned one thing....you can't make much $$ working in a MC shop. It's the same with watches...I worked on and traded watches since the early 1970s for a cold weather hobby. Sometimes doing what makes you happy starves you out. How did my 'main job' work out? Pretty good. I retired at age 45.

That depends on the exact outside diameter of the case neck and inside diameter of the crystal retaining ring. I put a Clark 127 on an MBK 1680 case and the crystal was too tight and shaved quite a bit of plastic from the inner edge. The crystal retaining bezel was also too loose with the Clark 127. The MBK case neck od was 28.2mm. I ended up using a Best-Fit 127 from a supply house but no telling who made it. To make matters worse, some replica case makers have goofball size case necks, crystals, and retaining rings so genspec parts will not fit. There is no quick and easy answer to your question because of so many variables in cases and crystals so you may need to invest in a high quality digital caliper (around $75 to $100) and go from there. I went through a half dozen crystals on a DW '5513' project and finally ended up with a Clark 19 and an ST bezel kit with the crystal retaining ring ID machined inside a little bit in a lathe. It was a lot of trouble but the DW case has a 28.0mm case neck and most aftmkt 19 crystals will not work. They come with an off spec crystal and spring wire bezel. Find a crystal that is a good fit on the case neck (not too loose, not too tight) and push it all the way down on the case then measure it at the top edge and the base. The top edge diameter will tell you if the crystal retaining bezel will start straight on the crystal without a lot of trouble and the base measurement is what you need to compare with the ID of the crystal retaining bezel...usually 1 or 2 tenths mm is all the difference you can get by with depending on how tight the crystal is on the case neck and how hard the crystal material is. Rigid crystal material will shatter if the crystal retaining bezel is too tight and flexible material will give a little. crystal is too loose = it will turn easily and has some side to side slack between the case neck and crystal crystal is too tight = shaves plastic and very hard to turn I have had a tremendous amount of trouble with acrylic aftmkt crystals fitting genuine and genuine spec rolex cases. I went so far as to buy a Mitutoyo 'Absolute' digital caliper to measure cases/bezels etc and it has really made the task easier. I also have a couple cheapo digital calipers and they simply will not give accurate readings over and over. You can find good deals on Mitutoyo calipers on eBay...the 500-351 and similar models are good choices. I know this was a lot of technical BS but if you are going to work on this stuff you will need a good caliper. I also use the caliper to measure MG crystals as well as crystal seats in older watch cases that use 'armored' and 'snap in' crystals. You can also tell a T10 (.9mm) stem from a T9 (1.0mm) stem etc as well as measure case tubes, crowns etc. I am NOT a watch expert by any means. I am an expert on watch BS. Ha!

Looks like your crystal retainer bezel was too tight, the case neck was too big, the crystal was brittle, the crystal was not a good fit...or a combination of faults. It all depends on the specs of your case, crystal retaining ring, and date offset. Whew! If everything is oem spec it is fairly easy to find a replacement but if not, it will be hit or miss. The 1680 uses a number 127 crystal. To get an accurate fit, you need the specs on a genuine case neck where the crystal mounts and ID of a genuine crystal retainer, then measure your case and retainer and see if they are the same. If yes, then you can use a genuine or accurate aftmkt crystal. Catch 22...many aftmkt replacement crystals are not exactly the same as genuine. Good luck! It's simple but it ain't easy.

16750... I had one in the early 1990s and like a dummy I sold it. Have a 1675 now and they look just alike, same case size, bezel etc. The 1675 has been put up so long that it will no longer run, needs c/o. The 16750 had applied tritium dots like a 1675 and R&B insert. All I have left is the bracelet and clasp from the 16750 but I had it changed over to tutone about 20 years ago. Paid $1350 for the 16570 in 'like new' condition 5-20-91 rom a rolex AD, it was a trade in. We need a time machine.

Agree on the new SD, A-OK. DSSD is a Clowner for sure. They should come with a pair of white size 30 shoes. Sky Dweller? Piper Cub pilots don't buy $40k watches. They are more into ThreeBond gasket sealer and parachutes. Tooter... BB is Ok but would spend my $$ on a Frankenstein 5512/13 with 1570 or 1520 WR to 100m or so. Nobody down at the swimmin' hole ever heard of a Tudor. The new Ranger at 41mm? They went modern...need to grind it down and go retro. Today's trendy is tomorrow's turdy. 'Only' $2825 on a $20 strap? Nah, $1095 maybe. It has an Eater motor in it after all. Cellini... Their fake oyster dates are not half bad but I am not into 18k gold watches for $500 a gram. Supposedly have 'in house' motors in 'em...maybe a 3035 brought back from the dead. Have not seen an inside picture. Liked the swelled up bubbleback look-alikes from a few years back though. My favorite is the old King Midas but where would a bum like me wear one? Smoking a stogie on a toothpick and wearing a King Midas... Real Relax watches have plastic crystals.

For what it is worth...I put TC case tubes and crowns in two MBK cases and two DW cases and they worked fine. The TC 7mm case tube will also screw into a genuine rolex 1601 case (3.0mm x .35mm case tube threads) by hand with no tools. MBK and DW cases are threaded same as genuine...3.0mm x .35mm. Free advice...always try the case tube in the case before you screw a tap into the case tube threads to 'clean them up'. If the case tube screws into the case Ok, let it go. You can really get into trouble running a tap into these finely cut threads because if the tap is off center just enough to cross one thread, it will chew them all up. Something else...some case tubes are made out of nickel silver and they will snap off without warning if they bind up while screwing them in or right when they are fully seated. Stainless steel case tubes are a lot tougher but you must be very careful not to get them started off center. When going with aftmkt oem type 7.0mm case tubes...try to use tubes with the most threads where they screw into the case. Some aftmkt case tubes only have a few threads where they screw into the case and are prone to back out when unscrewing the crown. "Free advice' is only worth what you pay for it.

I know how I would feel if I got scammed on a watch so I help anyone I can. I do not try to get fakes taken down on eBay but have spotted a few fakes/F-steins at trade shows etc. The truth is I am not good enough on dials and case shapes to spot many of the better fakes on the internet but I can usually tell about the movement so that is where I try to help. I seriously doubt I could tell a well worn Yuki 5513 case from an original but I can tell when a 1560 is hiding under a 1570 autowind assembly etc. Matter of fact, I got stuck on one of those combos a couple years ago on eBay but did not complain because the price was fair and I doubt the seller knew what it was. I saw this on vrf today and they claim it is a fake case...eBay item number 291126883209 I have a Phong 1655 case and it looks good to me so I am out of the game as far as 1655 cases go. The eBay case does have a 'long E' in ROLEX inside the case back though. ...rolexperts claim the 'long E' is baaad medicine.

The term "Ultimate" started with 'Paul' on his Abay and Womart sales sites about 10 or 12 years ago and it was a joke back then and as far as I know still a joke today. I am not very well versed in the current offerings but I always thought Trusty Time was one of the so called 'cartel' members. To get oem spec watches you may need to go with TC or something along that line. Something else to consider when buying these watches is the watch that accepted genuine parts that was for sale three months ago may not be the same watch being sold today. They may look alike but the later version may have different bezel, crystal, and dial sizes.

It looks like a bicycle chain. One alternative for 'Non Purists' is using a genuine clasp and hoods with a high quality jubilee bracelet.

Crown and tube usually will fit as most replicas have the proper threads in the case. Bezel and crystal maybe, someone who has tried this should know. Looking at this from a $$ standpoint... Case tubes and crowns are often swapped out for genuine parts because the replica parts are not very good but when a genuine bezel assembly, insert, dial, and crystal are fitted it will cost a lot of $$ and probably not raise the value of the watch much at all. Besides, if you go for a genuine tube, crown, bezel assembly, insert, dial, and crystal...you still have the bracelet to contend with along with the 'trouble-prone-Asian-clone' inside. Another reason not to add a genuine bezel, insert, dial, and crystal... Basic cartel replicas are not usually 'keepers' because a better version is always just around the corner. Otoh Frankensteins with genuine movements or cases etc may turn out to be long term keepers and the $$ spent on genuine parts is easier to rationalize.

I agree with hiho. Lessons learned the hard way... After my MBK projects, I believe MBK 5513/1680 cases are probably better suited to higher grade Eta builds...higher grade = a couple steps above cartel cases. The MBK 1680 case that I put a 1575 and Yuki dial in did not accept most of my aftmkt 127 crystals and I did not want to waste a genuine crystal on it...so I ended up using a Best-Fit crystal that worked on the case with the Clark bezel kit just fine but since it was made in a lower profile, the second hand lightly rubbed the crystal causing it to lose time so I took the 1575 out and will stick an Eta in it later. With a lower cp and hour wheel than the 1575, the hands on an Eta will clear the crystal. The hands on the 1575 were properly spaced and I did not want to lower the hour/minute hands and shorten the sweep second hand tube to lower the ss hand. Hate to say it after bashing DW cases but they are well suited for a 'bargain build' 1680 using a Yuki etc dial and 1575. If you take the time to drill the lugs, bevel the lug tops, and use a Clark or ST bezel kit (both are exactly the same) with Clark crystal they make very good lower $$ project cases. If you flatten the case sides they are even better but it is a LOT of work. The rounded case sides are really not much of a problem and I have seen quite a few genuine submariners at watch shows with the bevels worn/polished away and the case sides slightly rounded from wear and polishing. If you make an Eta 5512/13 using a DW case you will need a 26.5mm dial. The two MBK 1680 I bought were both new from Narrika/MBK and one had a pretty good bracelet with hollow mid links but the other bracelet was not too hot with solid mid links. Both movements were swiss Eta 2836 but they did not look brand new and need c/o. Both dials were Ok except for the rough edges caused by grinding them down to fit the case when they were assembled. If I wanted to move my MBK 1570 powered '5512' up the Frankenstein ladder a few steps I would use a DW case back with engraving instead of laser etching and have the case band engraved where it is now lightly laser etched. All my MBK cases are laser etched. Any future Frankenstein vintage submariner projects will use no date 1520, 1560, or 1570. No more date/dial/crystal headaches for me. Not ever. Yuki case beats MBK case for Frankenstein projects. DW cases are not as bad as I thought.