automatico

Finding a decent seven hole signed clasp is also a problem. Six holers are everywhere.

I thought it was a kitchen timer....the Kitsch Master.

"A scratch at EXP of Explorer..." Good catch, that will kill it for the 'connoisseur'.

"someone please buy this" I am going to keep an eye on it and see if it sells as I still have two (2) nos tritium 1016 dials...plus an unused no hack 1570 from 1970. Had to clean the 1570 in 1996 because it tarnished. No luck finding a nos case though. Maybe I can sell it all and retire. ...to Beirut. Nothing is forever...not even a rolex.

"...was wondering what the reliability on the a2836 with a mod at 6 is for a daily beater." Do not know anything about the Asian 2836 with seconds at 6 but there is no telling how bad (aka cheap) they made the conversion going by some of the other botch jobs they have turned out...A7750 with sec at 6 etc. The only 'trouble free' Asian conversions I have seen are the non adjustable 24 hour hand conversions on Swiss and Asian 2836. There is a version of the genuine Eta 2892 with seconds at 6 (Eta 2895) and there is a picture of one on eBay, item number 221309727215. Zoom in and look at all the stuff they tacked on the top of it to make the conversion. Good price though.

No doubt there will be some wear on the dw teeth over time but I have not seen damage like this on high mileage swiss Etas, there might be something else wrong too. I do not work on etaclones unless I absolutely have to so I am not familiar with dw troubles on them. Maybe the dw is dragging on something and it is taking too much force to turn it. This may also explain why the date is not centering in the window every day. Before putting it all back together, it might be a good idea to swap out all the date parts, not just the dw and overlay. Be sure to run the date change through a couple days by turning the crown/hands and a couple months by quick set on the bench...then after you get it back together with the movement mounted in the case, turn the dw around through a couple more days with the crown/hands and see if there is any binding at all. If no binding, run it around a couple months using the quick set feature while looking closely at the dw through the date window to see if it is staying flat all the way around. Case clamps and screws can force the movement down against the dial and cause the dw to stick or drag (especially with an overlay) and this is why it needs to be checked both out of the case and mounted in the case. It is also a good idea to put a very small amount of grease (KT22 etc) under the minute wheel where the minute wheel turns against the 'H' spring (aka canon pinion). These Etas have a cp like a 218 Accutron and they are pretty tough but running the calendar around with the crown/hands is still rough on it. "A2836-2 7 year old Date wheel replace + overlay" Before spending much $$ to repair an etaclone, I would look around for a swiss eta 2836.

"How about just drilling the shallow 1.9 mm hole and glue only the head of the valve which basically is a 1.9 mm diameter, 1 mm thick disk?" That would be fine as long as the glue holds.

I made one for a '5514'... First, I drilled a 1.3mm pilot hole in the case using the same size drill bit I use for submariner lugs. I drilled the hole all the way through the case because I was not worried about a leak after pressing the valve into the case. Then I drilled a shallow 1.9mm hole for the valve head (no O ring used)...very shallow if no O ring or a little deeper for an O ring. I made the valve out of 316L rod from 'online metals com' without grooves for the gasket or clip, just a hair bigger than the 1.3mm hole in the case. Last, I pressed the valve into the case using red Loctite. It is easy to do but you will need a lathe to make the valve. Making a working valve is not much more work but you need to use different dimensions on the valve and hole in the case if you want it to be oem size. The catch to this is making the spring clip that holds the valve tight in the case and cutting the relief inside the case for it. It is not as easy as it looks.

"The first true forum was TRC, there was a board before that but not a true forum." First repforum I was on was RWCC, somewhere in mid to late 1990s. Next was TRC, member 43. On a few genforums since mid 1990s but they are full of peckerheads now. "rock on & live long" +1 Live slow mon.

"Biggest knock on the old MBW "polex design" cases, they were really made for 5513 dials. The 1680 dials that came with the watch are smaller in diameter than the gen/aftermarket dials." +1

Here it is: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331041150526

Nice find B! +1 These cases are probably unsigned. Last case I got from DW was unsigned between the lugs and the letters/numbers were roughly ground away inside the case back. They are still not a bad deal but you will need an oem type bezel kit if they still have spring wire bezels.

I have tried to drill holes in blind lugs using a Foredom type rotary tool similar to the dental tool with not much luck. With hand held tools, the problem is keeping the drill bit on target after the hole is started. I always put a small dimple on the lug where I want the hole to be located with a spring loaded center punch but when the hole is started, the hand held drill always tries to follow the wrong course. For this reason I have resorted to mounting the case solidly in a vise of some sort after putting the dimple in the lug and drill the lugs in a drill press or small milling machine. This has been hit or miss because you have to start the holes exactly where you want them and it is nowhere as easy as it sounds. Matter of fact, it is not easy at all because you have four chances to screw up on each case. If you start the hole with a small 'pilot' bit, they are not very rugged and tend to break or get hot and lose temper. When using a larger drill bit (1.3mm or so) to start with, it seems to work Ok as long as the bit does not overheat. I even tried carbide drill bits but they are expensive and brittle...if they bend, they break and if they break in the lug they are a real hassle to remove. They are good for starting holes though. HSS drill bits get dull quicker but do not break as easily. The 'easy' way to remove broken drill bit is to finish drilling the hole on the opposite side (and into the lug with the stuck bit if needed), then drive the stuck drill bit out from the finished side...in theory anyway. My only successful lug drilling has been enlarging holes in lugs with holes already drilled all the way through. Expensive Screw-ups... The Suzuki AD I worked for broke the bolt that holds the alternator on the end of a customer's Hot Rod Suzuki GS1100 crankshaft back in the early 1980s (not me!) and I had to send the crank to California to a specialty shop and have the bolt electro-eroded out of the end of the crankshaft. After putting it all back together the guy who owned the bike spun the alternator on the crank doing burn-outs (no keyway, just a taper fit). I sent the crank to Falicon in Florida to get a new crank pin pressed on it and have the crank welded. Next, the guy dropped the bike out of his truck on I-640 at about 75 mph and wadded it up like steel wool. I bought the engine for $100 and a friend drag raced it for years with no more problems. It all started with a broken bolt. On a smaller scale...I have a brand new no hole 'noob' case with a drill bit broken off in a lug. It all started with a 95 cent drill bit... Broken bones... I bought a new 1983 GS1100 ESD and hit a deer on it up in the mountains . Spent almost a year In a wheel chair, crutches, rehab etc. Sold it to the guy who bought the GS1100 engine. He fell off of it and nearly killed himself...skin grafts etc. He sold it to another friend and he fell off and was nearly killed. They cut the frame up with a torch and buried it along with the main case after breaking it up with a sledge hammer.. We named it Christine. No tombstone. Now he rides a ZX 14 with 1570cc Muzzy or a regular ZX 14 with nos.. I ride an eXmark lawn mower with a Kawasaki engine...

"A Rolex 1002 which is a 'Superlative Chronometer, Officially Certified' or SCOC, would have a 1570 movement. This movement would be appropriate for a 5512 after 1965 or so." The 1002 is a strange duck...they can be found as 'Air King Precision' (no scoc), 'Oyster Perpetual' (with scoc), and Explorer (with scoc) depending on when they were made and the market they were made for. My 'official' relax parts book shows the 1002 to come with a 1560 or 1570 but mine from I-64 came with a 1530 with serial numbers. Frankensteins with rolex movements are a different ballgame for sure. Besides the initial $$ outlay there may be the need for expensive $ervice and part$ now or later. A 5513 with a rolex movement should be cheaper than a 1680 because a 1520 usually goes for less than a 1570/75. A 1570 is Ok in a 5513 F-stein imho because it is not a genuine watch anyway and the 1570 could be thought of as an 'upgrade'. Try to get a no date 1570 for use in a 5512/13 project or the canon pinion and hour wheel will be too tall after removing the date works and calendar spacer. The sweep second pinions are all the same because the difference is in the length of the sweep second hand tube. You can always go with a 5512 dial on a 1570 and make a 'McQueen' submariner. If you opt for an Eta 2846 in a high $$ case, a 5512/13 is a lot easier because you dodge all the problems with date window magnifiers, date wheel overlays etc. Maybe buy a ready made 5513 or 1680 like Puretime and Josh offer like alligoat said and wear it while taking your time to build a first class Frankenstein. A nice case and 1520 or 1570 might come up for sale at any time.

BEST FRIEND automatico, you know too PAUL in Guangzhou? CARZYYYYYY!!! Yep and I still have a 'birthday' card he sent me. Plus a couple 'Ultimate! Submariners' from his Crazy Sale! Paul was all right. bb951: "Let me guess... They both claimed to have the best sub right ?" No doubt about it. ...but that was inside information back then, you had to know 'The Guy'.

Something else... If you use a 5513 case with 26mm+/- dial window opening and a genuine spec 26mm dial, you might run into trouble with the dial staying on the movement. I have a 1520 with a Yuki genspec dial in a DW 5513 case with a dial window opening of 25.95mm and dial is 26.0mm +/- a tenth mm or so. The only thing really holding the dial in place are the dial screws. The movement mounts solid against the inside of the case but the dial does not solidly touch the back side of the dial seat/reflector (aka rehaut). You can see a slight space between the dial and dial seat with a loupe and bright light. If you use a genspec Yuki etc dial made for a genuine 1530 base rolex movement on an Eta, the dial feet will have to be removed so there may not be a reliable method of holding the dial solidly in place using a DW case. You might get by if the movement is centered and solidly mounted so it will not move at all. A genspec 1680 dial being .5mm or so bigger od should work better. There was a post a year or so back that showed a genuine 5512 case along with the dial opening measurements. It showed the dial window opening to be 26.0mm and the 5513 case is supposedly the same size (?). It has been so long since I worked on a genuine 5513 that I do not remember how much 'purchase' the dial had inside the case so maybe someone with genuine 5513 and 1680 cases can give the dial window measurements. Here are the dial window measurements etc of the cases I have: MBW/MBK 5513...25.45mm dial window opening, case neck od where crystal mounts...28.2mm MBW/MBK 1680...25.45mm dial window opening, case neck od where crystal mounts...28.2mm Both mid cases are 4.95mm thick and both have grooves cut in the top of the case for a gasket under the crystal retaining ring. The cases are identical except for letters and numbers. They are very well made and finished. DW 5513...25.95mm dial window opening, 5.2mm thick, 28.05mm case neck od DW 1680...26.0mm dial window opening, 5.6mm thick, 28.05 case neck od No groove for gasket on top of the case. Very well made and finished. IG44 1680 case...25.9mm dial window opening, 4.9mm thick, 28.15 case neck od No groove for gasket on top of the case. Very well made and finished except for the 'canoe' shaped lugs. All interior and exterior lettering/numbering is only fair. The MBW/MBK numbers are the worst of all between the lugs. Only the IG44 case is drilled for genspec springbars, the MBW/MBK cases are drilled a hair too small, and the DW cases are way too small. Here is the kicker... The fit and finish of the $135 DW case is just as good as the $300 to $500 MBW/MBK and $500+ IG44 cases. But there's a catch... Pot bellied case sides. Out of spec case neck (and dial window?). Shallow gasket groove in caseback. Will not accept oem spec case tube to case gasket. DW is mia.

"His grandfather was a watchmaker and he has a big load of rolex vintage parts since 2011." BS? It can't be! My 4th cousin in Guangzhou named 'Paul' left me a big load of rolex vintage parts too. Had another 4th cousin in HK with the initials 'DW' who also had a stash of rolex vintage parts but he dropped under the radar.

"How about the date: does it turn clockwise or counter clockwise?" CCW "Would a 1570 fit an MBW case? If not, what would I need in order to use both?" Some say yes, some say no. I tried it and a 1570/75 date movement with genuine 1680 dial will fit into my 1680 case but the back side of the dial window in the case needs to be machined flat where it has a step in it. The movement is a little but loose in the case (side to side) and hopefully the standard case screws would hold it tight enough that it does not move around when screwing the crown in, setting time etc. If the movement slides back and forth in the case it will scuff paint off the dial. A 1520 no date movement with 5513 dial would not work in my unaltered MBW/MBK 5513 or 1680 cases because the stem is too far to the front of the case tube. MBK/MBW 5513 and 1680 cases are exactly the same...at least the two I have are. "Does the serial numbering on an mbw case run in sequence like the TC or is it a fixed (same) serial numbering all through out production?" Do not know. My 5513 is L342386 and the 1680 is L342301. "Has anyone successfully changed the 'Polex' engraving into 'Rolex'?" My guess is anyone with an engraving machine and a selection of font dies could do it. If you are brave, use a straight edge and carbide scribe. My advice is not to waste $$ on a genuine rolex movement and go with an Eta 2846. If you already have the movement, it's not as bad...$$ etc. Genuine spec 5513 dials are 26.0mm, 1680 dials are 26.5mm iirc. edit: Freddy is right in that it seems all MBW/MBK cases are not the same over the years. The 5513 came from Freddy (unknown age of case) and the 1680 from Reg (about 2 years ago). I have one other 1680 Reg case with serial number L342043...just found it. It looks like the date windows are too far to the right on both MBW/MBK 1680 watches. http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/155754-old-school-mbw-1680-build-ingod-dial-issues/ http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/157857-follow-on-mbw-1680-ingod-dial-build/

In my experience DW was Ok at first but became like a slooow leak in a tire...you usually made it Ok but there was the chance that you might not. I believe most 'collectors' start out with good intentions but get ground down by the nature of the business. I would also bet selling replicas is not intended to be a career but a side show on the way to a regular gig.

"I think I am going to pass on it due to the condition of the dial and hands. Thank you for your inputs." Passing on the project is a good decision imho for whatever reason. I have put a few 'Frankensteins' together using genuine 1530 base movements and the truth is I have really been disappointed in them. I had a few spare movements and bought a few more to make F-steins but have totally changed my mind. Why? In the past four or five years that I have worn the F-steins, I have had a rash of mechanical problems...broken balance staffs, anodized red reverser teeth chipping, winding rotor axles coming loose in the weight, broken top rotor axle jewels etc. It's been like a flash-back to when I wore genuine rolex watches in years past. It's like the guys who say "They don't make cars like they used to". Thank goodness for that! When I drove '55, '56, '57, etc Chevrolets in the mid to late 1960s I spent as much time under them as in them. The truth is that these movements are not very rugged compared to modern (Eta) automatics and just plain fragile compared to quartz movements. The 3035 is not much better in my experience because they have a lot of top winding rotor jewel trouble, hairsprings coming loose on the balance collet, tangled hairsprings, reverser trouble, broken balance staffs etc. I wore a few watches with 3035 back when they were popular but usually sold them as soon as possible (still have two 3035 watches left though). I doubt the 3135 is a whole lot better (one left). I have owned quite a few 3135 watches but never wore one very much. There is a reason why RWC has the biggest repair network in the world. I have had a LOT of experience with 1530 base movements going back to the early 1970s. Broken and worn out parts was not a problem for most of that time but when RWC got psycho serious about cutting off parts, their watches ceased to be worth much to me. I will admit I am rough on watches (because I can fix them...Ha!) but no more than everyone was 35 or 40 years ago when mechanical watches were common and there was a repair shop on every corner. If I was going to make a super nice 16610, the movement question would be Swiss Eta or Asian etaclone and TC would get my vote for the rest. I have had very good luck with genuine Eta 2824/36 etc and if one blows up, parts are plentiful...and cheap! The best thing about a replica rolex is that it does not have a $rolex$ movement...

"Nothing to do with gears meshing. Your have a faulty reversing wheel. Easy and cheap fix for someone that knows what he is doing." Agree. The reversers are one of the parts that can cause trouble on Eta 28xx autos if you do not stay on top of them. Rotor bearings can also wear out along with the little wedge shaped post cast on the plate where the crown wheel turns, especially if you hand wind the watch a lot. When you hold an Eta 28xx watch flat (dial up or down) and wind it slowly by hand...if the rotor spins it may be a sign of reverser trouble (dirty/dry or worn out). A little bit of spin is usually Ok but a lot is not. If it still spins with the watch in a vertical position, there is trouble for sure.

My favorite of the wind-up whopperwatches is the black dial Unitas/Eta 6497 Kienzle Atlantis. http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=mcsaoffblock&va=kienzle+atlantis

QS DJ dial... 9.0mm offset center to center 3.0mm wide 1.8mm high 3135 pictures: http://www.chronometrie.com/rolex3135/rolex3135.html Parts list: http://www.phfactor.net/wtf/Rolex/1055_Rolex%203135%20NEW.pdf

I have a few nos F520117 16610 'noobmariners' and 16710 'noobmasters'.

"I fail to see the 'upgrade'?" +1 If it was me, I would keep the better one and add 'character' by wearing it for a few years. It would take $1000+ to make the rough one look as good as yours. Two of my (many) rules with genuine rolex are: Never trade a slick watch for a rough watch of the same model. Always look for case corrosion before buying or trading. 'Case' in point...I have a 1603 from the mid 1970s that looks like it is a couple years old, someone really took care of it...the caseback is rotted out around the gasket area and the case has some damage where the gasket sealed against it. You never know.