automatico

If a deep water watch case (this 1665 for instance) is made to oem specs and the fit and finish are up to oem standards...it will seal same as a genuine watch. But only if: 1...The case tube is oem spec or genuine in good condition with a genuine spec gasket between the tube and case along with proper O rings inside the tube. 2...The case tube must be properly installed. The official rolex instructions say "Grease slightly the thread of the tube with silicone grease, rolex reference 2909 or grease, KT-22 ref 2907". No loctite, no glue. 3...The crown must be genuine and in good condition with a good oem spec gasket in the cap. 4...The crystal must be genuine or oem spec and the case neck must have NO dents, corrosion, or scratches. 5...The crystal retaining bezel must be a proper fit over the crystal. No glue etc. 6...You must have a feel for the 'proper fit'...not too loose and not too tight. 7...Check for crazing on the crystal skirt between the case neck and crystal retaining ring with a bright light and 10x loupe after installation. 8...The case back must fit properly and have an oem spec gasket in good condition...properly lubricated. 9...The HEV valve and gasket must be in good condition and have a proper retaining spring. If the spring is too weak, water will leak into the case under low pressure conditions...washing hands, in shallow water etc. In deep water, outside pressure seals the gasket to the case. 10...The gasket seat on the outside of the case must be cut to spec and relatively smooth so the O ring will seal against it. 11...There are no shortcuts. I understand that reality has a way of creeping onto these projects so I usually lower my expectations of water resistance to maybe an actual 30M or so in a wet tester (without the movement!). This will allow the watch to be fine for everyday wear. Leaks usually come from crystals and case tubes/crowns. HEV valves are another problem and on project watches with a valve, I usually make another valve out of 316L stainless rod and machine the shaft slightly oversize so it will be a press fit into the case and not have to depend on the spring. The O ring gasket is used same as originally intended but you must be careful not to press the valve in too far and flatten the gasket. I do not cut a retainer spring groove on the valve and make it just long enough to barely pass through to the inside of the case. So far they all have worked fine with no leaks. To remove the pressed in valve, you remove the movement and drive the valve out from the inside. If it gets stuck, pull it out from the outside with a forked tool same as pulling a nail with a claw hammer. It is a good idea to pad the claw tool to keep from scratching the case.

"How will I know if it's threaded or force fit? The 3 sided file has been suggested, I assume left hand threads?" Look inside the case where the case tube is mounted and you should see threads on threaded cases and no threads on cases with pressed in tubes. Nearly all will have threaded cases/tubes. Some cases will have case tubes and crowns same as oem and some will have the wrong sizes...6.0mm crown on 1675, 7.0mm crown on modern GMT (using a submariner case) etc. Most case tubes can be removed with a file or something similar and if you use a modern type oem spec tube in the case, try to find a rolex type spline wrench for installation to avoid damage with a file etc. There are a LOT of things to know about case tubes and crowns so it is a good idea to study up on them before you jump in. Case tube threads are standard... righty tighty lefty loosey

"Do you know if the MBK 1680 case will have to be drilled and tapped?" The cases should already be tapped for oem spec rolex case tubes...3.0mm x .35mm. I have two later MBK 1680 cases and both will accept oem spec case tubes of the modern type (for 703 crowns). Many builders use a genuine spec aftmkt case tube and a genuine crown with good results. I used a tube and crown from TC in one and they also worked fine. The tubes and crowns that came in the watches are similar to TC parts but I do not know if they are exactly the same or not. I knew TC parts were good so I changed them out. Iirc, the one spot that may give trouble on some MBK cases is where the case tube gasket contacts the case...some cases may not be properly machined to accept an oem spec gasket but both of mine did. My watches were purchased directly from the 'watch nazi' at MBK about 2 years ago.

"One thing they don't mention is the quantity of oil. I assume one drop, but what size dropper to use?" http://www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/BTI-The_Practical_Lubrication_of_Clocks_and_Watches.pdf

"what's a "c/o?" Clean and Oil "...what does it take to drop a 1570 or 1560 movement into a Cartel watch? How much needs to be changed? Dial? DW? Hands? Crown/tube? The Lot?" Sometimes it is not easy... 1...The 1570 is 12.5 ligne size while Eta 28xx is 11.5 ligne size. 2...The stem has to center in the case tube after the movement and dial are fitted into the case. This is hit or miss on cartel cases. 3...Eta dials will not work on rolex movements and it is hard to mount a dial with no dial feet on a rolex movement. 4...Many cartel cases have dial windows that are too big for oem spec rolex dials. 5...Many cartel cases are not oem spec for crystals, bezels, case tubes etc. 6...MBK are not cartel watches (and they are expensive!) but they have very good cases that are close to working with a rolex movement. 7...Because dealers often change the source for their watches without notice, a cartel case that someone bought that accepts a rolex movement may not still be in stock and you might get an entirely different case. There are quite a few examples of cartel cases with rolex movements in the rolex section. http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/156885-franken-case-questions/ http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/164071-vintage-sub-questions/ http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/154835-rolex-152070-into-mbwmbk-case/ LIGNE. A unit used in the measurement of watch movements. It is 1/12 French inch [i.e., a pouce] i.e., 2.256 mm. The size of a watch movement is referred to as “so many lignes,” e.g. 8¾′′′ lady’s size or 18′′′ gentleman’s pocket size, etc. The three small strokes (′′′) are the accepted symbol for ligne. Donald de Carle, F.R.H.I. Watch and Clock Encyclopedia.

"Anyone reckon the movements (Esslinger) are worth the moolah they are asking?" If they have been stored for many years, they may need to be cleaned/oiled to give reliable service and there is no way to tell how long they have been stored. I have some nos Eta 2846 from 6 or 7 years ago that came in plastic cups inside plastic bags and if you remove the balance jewels, take them apart and look at them closely, most are dry or have very little oil. The oil on the pallet jewels/escape wheel teeth is also dried up. They all run Ok but probably not for long. You are always better off with a freshly c/o nos movement than a c/o used movement. The problem is with nos 2846 going for around $150 now it is a lot of $$ when you add c/o to the cost. I am not much of a fan of Asian DG/Nanning 2813 etc because of the flimsy date, winding, and setting works. They are also a pain to work on. They are cheap though and a low cost alternative in projects. I just now looked at the 2846 movements and they came from a supply house in Los Angeles CA in June 2006...they were already dried out back then. They were $49 each. In today's dollars $49.00 equals $56.75. As for running dry...I have a Swiss made Elgin (A.Schild manual wind) from the 1960's/1970's that I bought in 2001 for $10 and it had never been serviced going by the condition of the screws etc. The 21600 bph movement still ran fine, kept good time, and still had 40+ hour reserve. I took it apart a couple weeks ago for c/o and it was completely dry. There were smudges where oil had been on the balance cap jewels but they were dry too.

I have a well worn Hamilton 992 RR Special made in 1907 that still runs within 6 or 7 seconds a day. The original yellow gold filled case was worn out and has been recased in a 1960's Hamilton signed stainless steel case. There are quite a few old 992 still around that only needed a couple balance staffs (from being dropped) and mainsprings to go 75 or 100 years. Railroad watch standards on most USA RR were plus or minus 15 seconds per day. At the beginning of each trip, the crew's watches all had to be set with the Chief Dispatcher's Standard Time Clock and during the entire trip they all had to be within 15 seconds of each other. All depots had a Standard Time Clock in them if they needed to check the time again for some reason. If you had a train order that stated: "Train number 163, Engine 2144 be in the clear at Sanford Siding, mile post 125 by 1201am for train number 164, Engine 3256"...you better know exactly what time it is. ...and be clear of the Main Line by 1201am. Or... Train numbers for trains running south and west end in odd numbers. Train numbers for trains running east and north end in even numbers. http://www.gatewaynmra.org/1999/timetable-and-train-order-operation-primer/

"...there was a highly unlikely story that the same person who makes Frank Muller dials also made dials for stuhrling..." Dials? Probably not but FM got busted for this... "INDUSTRY NEWS Franck Muller Russian Movement Admission! Dec 19, 2003 - 02:18 PM Not withstanding the fact that both Mr. Franck Muller and Vartan Sirmakes (co-owners of Franck Muller Watchland FM, Pierre Kunz, ECW) are suing each other in court for breach of trust, now the saga of the Russian movements has turned a new page. After the Geneva newspaper Le Temps reported that FM Watchland ordered thousands of Russian made movements, Vartan Sirmakes denied it and sued the newspaper for libel. Now, according to the research done by another Swiss newspaper, Le Matin, documents have been unearthed that show that indeed Mr. Sirmakes purchased from Poljot, 1,500 movements. A contract dated 1994 and signed by Mr. Sirmakes' other company, Technowatch, shows the purchase order to Poljot for the movements states that these will be deprived of any engraving marks that will identify them as Poljot! Vartan Sirmakes denies vigorously that these movements ended up in Franck Muller cases, and gives an other explanation for their use: "Yes, it sometimes happens that we order Russian, Japanese or Chinese movements. But we used them for research, to know what the competitors are making. There is nothing but Swiss movements in the watches of the Franck Muller group". Watch specialists found it astonishing that 1,500 movements were purchased simply to study them. Me too.

"i wonder if we'll ever reach those levels of manufacturing again?" If it was up to Roland Murphy, I would say Yes. But sadly it's not. http://rgmwatches.com/about_rgm/ Here is another outfit making a run at it although with mostly imported parts: http://www.shinola.com/shop/watches.html?series=159&utm_source=Bing&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Brand+Brand+Bing#shinola=ftIkctbi2ma

"and when we are talking about parts apart from movement which brand is expensive and hard to find like bracelets, glasses, dials etc" Many Rolex parts are fairly easy to find because there are so many 'dealers' selling genuine and aftmkt parts on the internet. The trouble is many parts are replica or aftmkt and claimed to be genuine. Prices for guaranteed genuine parts are very high. Examples: 1570 reversers, I paid $25 each in the early 2000's The last one I bought in July 2013 was $95. I paid $185 for a new 1570 balance complete in the early 2000's. Now they are going for $450 or so. New gold 6.0mm crowns were $35 and new gold 7.0mm submariner crowns were $75. Steel 6.0mm were $20 while steel 7.0mm crowns were $35. Look on eBay now. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-GOLD-CROWN-for-submariner-NOS-241-24-702-8-C-11-IN-FACTORY-PACKAGE-/151181007615?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2333171aff TAG Heuer controls case parts but crowns, crystals, bezel inserts etc are available from some supply houses and on the internet...most parts are for earlier models though. Breitling parts are tightly controlled but there are crowns, bracelet parts etc available on the internet. Omega is not as bad right now because many supply houses still sell genuine Omega parts to independent repair shops. I do not look for this to last much longer however and prices have gone up on many Omega parts 100% to 200% while availability has gone down in the past 2 or 3 years. There is not much related to the above brands priced reasonably today. Of all the brands mentioned above, the most affordable and trouble free watch would probably be a good used quartz TAG Heuer 'time and date' Aquaracer etc with an Eta movement. The above comes from 40 years trading and working on watches. Someone new at the game may have a bright and sunny outlook on this subject.

"I would like to know what is most expensive part in an automatic watch?" Usually the balance complete or main plate. Balance complete = balance wheel with hairspring, balance staff, roller/jewel etc ready to go. "Also from Rolex, Breitling, Omega, Tag and pam which gen parts are cheaper?" Any standard Eta part if the movement is Eta based. Swiss 'in house' movements are another story...nothing is cheap now and many swiss companies will try to force you to pay for a 'complete overhaul' even if you only need a $20 part. Rolex and Omega parts are probably easiest to find but prices are rapidly rising. This is one big reason why high grade, high priced replicas are such a success. You can buy a replica TAG, Breitling, Pam, or Rolex replica that will fool 90% of the Gomers 90% of the time for 10% of the price.

"Read my review here:" Thanks, I read the review when it was posted. What I wonder about is long term use...what wears out, what breaks, winding efficiency, time keeping etc. If these movements were around $150 each I would jump on one (maybe two, might need one for parts). It's easy to tell the Y3135 from the A3135 at a glance by the reversers...Y3135 reversers are made like genuine and A3135 reversers have 'hubcaps' on them.

Click on... Heuer 844 and 8440 info

"What does it take to get a reliable SA3135?" That is a very good question, not much has been posted about them. Until there are more in use they will remain a mystery. Does anyone even know which factory makes them? My guess is they are not a viable alternative to a swiss eta but maybe as good as the average Asian etaclone. Their only advantage other than looking like a rolex 3135 is that genuine rolex dials and hands are supposed to fit them along with genuine date wheels. "Will a simple service be enough? I don't much about these movements." 'Simple service' should not include parts other than maybe a mainspring and no parts are available for this movement that I know of. Since reliability has not been proven and parts are n/a, you are taking a chance when you buy one (imho). With the Asian etaclone 2836 and 7750 you can sometimes substitute a genuine part for the defective clone part and always scavenge another etaclone for parts or put a genuine Eta in the watch. Putting a genuine rolex 3135 in a $400 replica watch because the 3135 clone went doa is not much of an option. I doubt many genuine internal 3135 movement parts will work in a 3135 clone (while pretending genuine 3135 parts are easy to find and affordable). Finding parts for this movement is the main problem if and when you need them. Finding someone who can do the work is not too much of a problem.

Some of the cheapo Daytonas with DG type day/date sub dials had leather straps with a deployant clasp that could be easily modified to make 'dive straps' by using the buckle ends of two rubber straps with the clasp. The flip lock has to be removed to install the strap because the rivet tube goes through the strap where the original buckle was but other than that, it is a 10 minute job. On the other end, the clasp cap has adjustment holes to adjust the length. if you want to avoid removing the flip lock rivets when changing straps you can drill the clasp cap and flip lock out to accept a springbar. The clasp cap needs to be drilled out so the entire stepped tip of the sb will pass through the cap. The flip lock needs to be drilled out so only the smaller tip passes through. You will have to use 'double shoulder' springbars, not springbars with flanges. The only catch is finding a clasp. There is a picture of the exact clasp I used on this page...fifth row down, sixth picture from left: http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&va=replica+daytona+on+leather+strap&fr=mcsaoffblock&tab=organic&ri=38

"$195? You can't be serious? I understand that there is a large cost for R&D and the tooling to create these but $195? Wow, they must have huge margins on these..." +1 For $195 (or less) I have purchased from a wholesaler/liquidator in the recent past: ...four new Seiko 5 automatics ...or four Orient automatics ...or two nos/ib Oniss swisseta 2836-2 powered president look-alikes ...or four nib Giorgio Milano chronographs with Miyota JS25 mvt ...or 39 new black diver style quartz 'Jelly' watches with PC21 Hattori mvt and silicon straps/stainless buckles (we buy 200+ Jellies at a time but used 39 to equal $195) etc, etc... My guess is they all probably cost more to make (per each) than the straps except for the Jellies. Another guess is that it would not take much of a tug on the watch to tear the link screw out of the strap by accident or by a thief in a crowded area.

"both the yuki and the phong case are stamped from a mold then hand shaped on a lathe by an unskilled worker who could care less about tolerances. the human touch is reflected in the price. Consistency from one piece to another will never be the same." Thanks! This really needed to be said by someone who has been in the repcase trenches . I have worked on enough replica watches to know that the difference between a $1000 case and a $50 case is most often the price, not the quality. Evidently people simply do not know (or care) how bad they are getting screwed. For the prices these guys are charging, their cases should be absolutely identical to genuine...no flaws at all. Today's high prices for some of these cases are being driven by the astronomical prices of genuine watches...and you ain't even gettin' a genuine case. You're getting a 'pot luck' case that might or might not be worth Jack Sheet. Btw, enough 316L to make a 1680 case will cost about $2US at the most and automated factories in HK and TW can crank them out by the hundreds in a few hours. The problem is consistency and honesty, a major problem with replica goods. As for $300 engraving...imho the price is absurd, especially if it is only for numbers/letters between the lugs.. If I was not so 'over the hill' I could buy what is needed and do the work for a fraction of that price...but I'm not looking for work and do not need the headache, same reason I do not take in any work. "MBW watches (Marias Best watches) differ from MBK watches. Unfortunately I can't tell the exact differences." I have a late MBK 5513 and a pair of late MBK 1680s and the cases are 100% identical except for the numbers. Never compared early MBW/MBK to late MBK though. Stop buying this high priced stuff and the price will come down real damn fast....take Beanie Babies for example.

I know this is no help but every replica I have had with a glide lock type clasp has either broken outright or slipped now and then. For this reason I now avoid them. Everyone used to complain about the flimsy stamped rolex clasp but in reality, they are hard to beat. From what I have read, genuine glide lock examples are not so hot either. A clasp with so many parts is bound to cause trouble when you add a little dirt, a little grit, a little water, and a little time.

The only thing made on a 'printer' is the case, everything else is made the same way as any $75 Titanium watch. A few years ago Seiko was making stainless steel Arctura cases out of pressed/heated metallic powder (PM) while Swatch made Irony cases by this method. The PM manufacturing method = fast production and little or no follow up machine work on intricate cases. The future of case making may well be the 'printer' method after it is perfected. Q..."Who makes the best sub?" A...Zerox. http://www.ctia.com.cn/TungstenNews/2009/20890.html Ever wonder how they make tungsten carbide watch cases for so little $$? http://www.chinatungsten.com/

"Yuki just responded....$600 bucks! damn idk why i thought it would be in the 200-300 range." I could live with $300 but not $600. "Also...Yuki says there is a 25 day production time per my order? I would have thought these would be premade..." Maybe it takes 25 days to make a $600 case out of a $50 case. Just kiddin'. Sorta. "...I sure as hell don't want to spend $1,250 for a case." That's a hellofa lot of moolah for a buck worth of 316L. As for genuine: "It takes a year to make a rolex." ...but there is a buyer born every minute.

"Yes, it was Paul. Gosh, blast from the past..." Yeah, also called his site WoMart and Abay. I still have watches and parts I got from him. Never had a problem. The character who called himself 'watchloverdavid' before Paul came on the scene is another story...

You might need a set of taps and case tube wrenches for 5.3mm and 6.0/7.0mm crowns. I have a couple BB crystal presses with a full set of aluminum cups plus a four piece set of nylon cups for gold/diamond bezels. BB presses turn up on eBay and at watch shows for around $100 depending on how many cups are included. You will need straight inside wall cups for rolex bezels and tapered inside wall cups for tension ring and 'snap in' crystals. Tension ring acrylic crystals are simply pressed into the case using tapered sidewall cups in the same press as used with straight sidewall cups on rolex bezels. Flat MG and sapphire crystals that press into a plastic gasket can be installed with the BB type press using a solid disc press piece or a cup that is close to the od of the crystal...straight sidewall if possible. Using cups is taking a chance but usually they work Ok. On MG crystals it is a good idea to use a sheet of paper etc between the cup and crystal to prevent scratching it. For 'snap in' type plastic crystals it might be better to go with a cheap crystal press with a set of tapered inside wall cups. You may also need to rig up a plunger of some sort (if not included) to mount on the lower post of the press to go against the inside of the crystal to shrink it. 'Snap in' crystals are properly installed in screw back cases by basically shrinking the crystal to allow it to slip into the case without damage. The bottom post on the press will have a soft pad (plunger) that goes against the inside of the crystal and the top post will have a tapered inside wall die that fits against the outside edge of the crystal. You put the empty case on the floor of the press, squeeze the handle to force the crystal against the pad causing the crystal to shrink, then raise the case up until the crystal fits into the bezel groove of the case with your other hand, then let off the press allowing the crystal to expand to original size and fit tight in the case. It's easy to do after you see it done. Snap in crystals are installed in one piece cases (or screw back cases with the movement still in it) by using some version of the 'claw' type crystal lift. They work Ok but often leave marks on the crystal where the claws squeeze it down. Learn how to sharpen screwdriver tips so you will not damage screw heads. I use a roller type sharpener that sells for $15 or so. You square the tip, then mount the screwdriver in the roller and roll it on different grits of sandpaper placed on a small sheet of glass etc in a trailing direction until it is what you want, then square the tip again making it the thickness needed for the screw slot. I square the tips on a diamond knife sharpening hone. Look at pictures of new Bergeon etc screwdrivers to see how long the taper should be on the various sizes of screwdrivers.

"Get the one that means more to you. Don't go gen for gen's sake." +1 Some of my project watches mean as much to me as any genuine watch I have.

Very good ideas, especially including rolex 1030, 1530 and 3035/3135 holes. A little bit off the subject but I wonder if industrial epoxy like used in manufacturing would be strong enough to hold platform type dial feet (Bergeon etc) to a dial? All the consumer epoxy you get is made for idiots (so they will not glue their nose holes together) and not very strong at all, it's not much better than Poligrip. I know there is some strong stuff out there because a friend who does commercial printing had an O ring inside an 'Edge' printer break (the O ring drives it) and he got an O ring repair kit with super duper glue of some sort and cut the new O ring and put it in the machine without taking the machine apart. It is still holding after 15+ years and miles of printing. The O ring was a couple bucks and the one step (no mix) glue was over $20USD for a little bitty tube. (the guy who sold it to him said to keep it away from the bathroom and bedroom...) Anyone ever try this stuff on anything? Permatex® PermaPoxy™ 4 Minute Multi-Metal Epoxy "Versatile, easy-to-use, multi-metal epoxy adhesive is two-part adhesive and filler system that eliminates the need for welding or brazing. Sets in four minutes, no clamping needed. Dark grey appearance. Fills gaps and will not shrink. When cured, can be drilled, sanded, threaded or filed. Resistant to water and solvents. Temperature range -60°F to 300°F (-51°C to 149°C). Permanent strength up to 4500 PSI." http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/adhesives-sealants/epoxies/permatex--permapoxy--4-minute-multi-metal-epoxy-detail#sthash.XAgJBn1s.dpuf

I have seen this when the screw holding the ratchet wheel came loose and allowed the wheel to slip out of mesh. It's a good idea to always check this screw on new watches and there is even a cut-out in the autowind plate on Eta 2824 etc for a screwdriver. Friction from the reversers plus mainspring tension will give enough resistance to allow the screw to be tightened.