automatico

Watches are a disease. The longest I have owned the same watch...41 years. Longest I wore it...5 or 6 days in a row. Last time I wore it...1979. Owned how many of the same model since then?...20 or so. How many watches total since I started?...you would not believe it. How many do I have now?...you would not believe it. How many have I sold?...ditto. Working on them... What is the biggest problem imho?...parts, no doubt about it. What is the main flaw in mechanical watches imho?...hairsprings. Are quartz watches really 'better' than mechanical watches imho?...of course they are. The same question applied to automobiles (because this is what usually happens when discussing mechanical watches): Is a Lexus better than a T model Ford?...of course it is. A modern mechanical watch is just a T model engine in a Lexus body. What have I learned? A watch is a watch. They all go stale in about 7 days.

"What are my options for the case back apart from Yuki?" I see projects as one of two types... Will it pass for genuine inside and out. Very, very hard to accomplish and very expensive. Will it pass for genuine on the outside only. Not nearly as hard to accomplish and fairly affordable. So...assuming you are making an 'outside' watch, you can probably scare up a suitable low buck caseback but it might not be correctly signed inside and might need a little modifying. Same goes for the case between the lugs...wrong reference number/serial number is Ok as long as the bracelet stays on. With a cartel 1655 case, this is 'the case' already. 'outside tell' test = Does it pass at first glance from a few feet away? Not hard to accomplish and a very reasonable/affordable goal. Does it pass an up close eyeball test? Harder but still relatively easy and affordable. Does it pass under a 5X loupe? A lot harder to do. Getting into $$. The IG44 dial will help a lot. Does it pass a 10X loupe test? Very hard to do. Probably need some genuine stuff to pass, especially the dial. Takes mucho $$. A watch that will pass the 'inside and outside' tell test will have a return on investment about the same as an ice sculpture.

"I know nobody will believe me now LOL. But I have been thinking about doing this for about a year." Me too. I cut the crown guards off a replica 16610 lug hole case and was going to make a big crown project with Raffles Time sterile dial etc but never finished it. It was fairly easy to remove the cg and smooth the case out. I can't even find it now...

"Nice present for your dad. Guess has nice watches." +1 Guess who makes Guess watches? Timex.

Maybe a steel or tutone quartz Seiko, Citizen Eco-Drive, or Bulova Marine Star. Believe it or not the newer stainless steel Timex quartz chronographs are Ok too. Amazon has a load of medium priced watches to look at... http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_sabc?url=search-alias%3Dwatches&pageMinusResults=1&suo=1378738806462#/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_17?url=search-alias%3Dwatches&field-keywords=timex%20chronograph&sprefix=timex+chronograph%2Cwatches%2C228&rh=i%3Awatches%2Ck%3Atimex%20chronograph The average guy does not want the hassle of a mechanical watch.

From what I have read, they are legal if unsigned and not legal if signed (2824/36, 2892, 7750) because the patents have expired on them. Same would probably apply to rlx 1530/60/70. Do not know about rlx 3000/3035 and 3130/3135 but 3035 started around 1977 and was dropped around 1987 or so. Not much need for a 3035 clone but a reliable 3135 clone would be good...with parts available. Better yet (in my opinion) would be a rolex 3135 compatible quartz retro fit movement with smooth sweep seconds like the Bulova Precisionist with the same hand sizes and dial foot locations. This would cure all the 3135 mechanical movement's ills...Fragile!, Expensive!, always needing expensive service!, runs down after a couple days!, not really a 'superior' time keeper!, No Parts!!, etc, etc. http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/index.php?title=Clone_Movements http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/how-do-seagull-hangzhou-compare-eta-depth-look-216945.html

I have owned a few AK and some of the movements in them have been mysteries. Most 1520/70 made after the mid 1970s are 26 jewel hack models and I have not owned an AK with a 1570 in it (yet) but did have one with a 1570 autowind plate on a hack 1520. The only thing that has to be changed to do this is the top plate of the aw assembly and it is very easy to do. Sometimes the top plate is changed because the top rotor jewel is cracked and it is easier to change the plate than to r/r the jewel if you are not equipped to do it. Sometimes a 17 jewel aw assembly will have worn out bushings and the entire aw assembly is swapped out with one from a 1560/70 etc. Look closely at the balance wheel/hairspring in your watch and compare it with pictures of a 1520 and 1570 to see which movement you have. The 1520 will have a flat hairspring with a regulator and the 1570 will have a Breguet type 'overcoil' hs without a regulator. They are easy to tell apart if you have pictures to compare your watch to. A 1570 will have serial numbers and a 1520 will not. Maybe I will say 'should not' because you never know.

"fits same cases the 2846 fits?" It looks like the main difference is the rotor bearing. I'll try one in a case made for a 2836 and see if it works as the 2836 and 2846 are about the same. If any thickness difference is below the stem centerline it should work Ok. The difference in thickness shown below in the specs may be the calendar spacer because it is noted as .15mm thick on the 2879. From The Ranfft website: 2879 11.5'', Dm= 25.6mm, Do= 26.0mm H= 5.35mm (dial spacer +0.15mm) F= 0.6mm T= 2.3mm 17/21/25 jewels f = 21600 A/h power reserve 55h 2846 11.5'', Dm= 25.6mm, Do= 26.0mm H= 5.2mm F= 1.65mm T= 2.25mm 17/21 jewels f = 21600 A/h power reserve 48h Update: I tried an Eta 2879 in a case made for an Eta 2836 and it fits fine, everything lines up, stem is in the center of the case tube etc. They are not hack movements but the hack lever can be installed. They will also need c/o but I figure it's better to spend $$ having a nos movement serviced than an old movement with unknown history.

With Eta 2846 getting harder to find besides many being 17 jewel models, this looks like a good deal on nos Eta 2879 25 jewel qs 21600 bph d/d movements. Same basic specs as 2846. eBay item number 130752197593

I have 2 or 3 'nos' (Ha!) SD from Paul/Abay/Womart with this clasp from 10 or 12 years ago. I put a few of the old Abay watches away in new condition because they had super sorry rotating bezels...the rotating bezels were just stuck down over the crystal with no inner bezel. Since the case neck is oem spec a Clark etc bezel kit would put them back in the game...if I was not so cheap and lazy. Iirc they were the only replicas I ever saw with this clasp cap. This winter I will try to take some pictures of my 'collection' of watchjunk. 'Collection'...double Ha!

Here's the way I see it... Opinion... A genuine 16200 case/bracelet/crown/crystal with genuine dial and 3135 date wheel (genuine or high quality replica dw) with swissEta 2836 would more than likely qualify as a Frankenstein because it has a lot of genuine parts and will pass for genuine...but it is only worth the sum of the parts, maybe a little more, and the dial is not worth much if the feet have been removed. Same watch with replica bracelet may not qualify as a Frankenstein because of not enough 'genuine stuff'. If it had a genuine strap and buckle it might be back to Frankenstein status but worth less $$ than with a genuine bracelet. I figure a watch like this is worth at least the sum of the parts. Same watch with a replica case/crystal/bracelet, genuine crown and dial...not a Frankenstein and worth what the parts will sell for. A 5513 with Yuki, Phong, MBK etc case, rolex 1520/30/60, Yuki Phong etc dial, genuine crown and high quality replica bracelet...it's a Frankenstein because of the movement and high quality case/dial and may be worth a little more than the sum of the parts. Same watch with the same parts except an Eta 2846...not a Frankenstein, just a high grade replica worth the sum of the parts more or less. Example... I have a DW 5513 case with Clark's bezel kit/crystal, Yuki dial/hands, TC tube/crown, rolex 1520, pretty good replica bracelet...not a Frankenstein because the case is not close enough to genuine and the only genuine part is the movement. It is just a replica with a genuine movement, worth the sum of the parts... case...$159 bezel kit...$52 crystal...$19 dial/hands...$104 tube/crown...$25 bracelet...$50 springbars, gaskets etc...$20 26j 1520 hack movement (inc c/o and m sprg)...$1000 labor...about $250 (very hard to recover on a finished watch) So, it would cost around $1500 to put together but a watch like this is very hard to sell. It would probably be better to stick an Eta 2846 in it and drop the price to $400 or so. Probably still be hard to get $400 so I might have to call it a 'Frankenstein!' to sell it. Imho... It boils down to the definition of 'Frankenstein' being a judgment call. The more genuine and high quality stuff in the watch...the closer it comes to being a 'Genuine Frankenstein'. Reality... Most of the time the term 'Frankenstein' is used in order to boost the selling price.

"...if you use a non-GMT calendar ring & the date sticks................... ;)" True. I will try the spacer after I get a couple AK projects knocked out...1002 AK ss made qtr I 1964 (1560) with Yuki matte black/white explorer style dial and 5501 AK tutone made qtr III 1962 (1530) with Yuki matte black/'gilt' explorer style dial...whatever 'gilt' means now. The original dials were badly refinished years ago and the watches have been in my 'fixit' drawer since 1998. I held on to them because they do not have any case corrosion. (I used to know what 'gilt' was before the geniuses at VRF decided to change the definition.) Since the GMT spacer is 1mm thick compared to the regular .8mm spacer, it should work. The thicker spacer raises the date wheel above the 24 hour parts and the relief where the date wheel rides in the spacer is the same.

Ruby as in 1575GMT calendar spacers that is... I have a 1575 with all the parts to make a 1575GMT except one...the calendar spacer, been looking two years for one. I was wrong. I do have the calendar spacer. Say what? The spacer I have has only one ruby jewel and everyone (including me until a while back) knows/believes that 1575GMT calendar spacers have three jewels. Not so. Mine has one ruby jewel just like the one now for sale on eBay, item number 171091291997. I measured a regular opd etc calendar spacer and it is .79mm, call it .8mm thick. Then I measured my one jewel spacer that came with the GMT parts...it is .99mm thick, call it 1mm. So...some GMT calendar spacers have one jewel and some have three.

"If Freddy says it's rep....that's good enough for me." +1 I have a Yuki 5513 dial with the 'aged' markers/hands and it looks a little bit more realistic (to me) as it is more of a 'brownish' color rather than 'yellowish' as in the picture above. It still looks like a pretty good dial though. A few years ago a dial this good would have been a sensation...except on VRF. When the first yellowish 'aged' dials came out they were quickly renamed 'yakpiss yellow' dials.

"... is a white DW more gen accurate?" I believe almost all are white. Can not remember seeing a silver DW on one. Some earlier models were R&B on white. http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=mcsaoffblock&va=rolex+1675 http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=mcsaoffblock&va=rolex+6542+gmt+master

Watch the videos... http://www.gravograph.us/engraving-machines/Overview.php

I have a few watches with the DG3804 and they all seem to run Ok but one or two do not have much reserve...dirty/dry probably. The only thing I have against them is that it is hit or miss when setting the 24 hour hand because of the slack in the wheels. You need to let the watch run for an hour or two after setting the 24 hour hand to see if it hits the markers on the hour and if not, you have to run the 24h hand all the way around and try again. Another problem is if you turn the crown the wrong way when setting the date and mess the 24h hand position up. I do not know how many trips around the dial the 24h hand drive is good for (during resetting) before it causes trouble but I guess they are fairly rugged. I had good luck with the older DG2812/13 with the 24 hour conversion but most of them needed to be cleaned/oiled or at least r/r the balance wheel jewels and clean and oil them along with anything else that looks dry (a half azz fix but it usually works). I do not know if they came from the factory as 'GMT' movements or were modified but I do know they are pretty tough. The main problems I have seen is the winding rotor screw falling out or a rotor bearing going bad. I like the 'magic lever' Seagull ST16 better than the DG2812/13 but do not know if the 24 hour stuff will swap over...probably not. Something else...date wheel overlays are available for Etas but all the DG 2812/13 I have (including 24 hour conversions) are 10mm date offset and I do not know about fitting a DW overlay...especially since it is putting a $25 or $30 overlay on a $25 movement. The last few DG2812/13 (non GMT) I bought from a supply house came with rolex style date font but with 10mm date offset. All the older watches I have (10 or 12 years old) with DG2812/13 GMT conversions have regular font (not rolex style) and all are 10mm offset. The newer watches I have (3 or 4 years old) with DG3804 all have rolex type font and look like they are less than 10mm offset...closer to 9mm. I like converted swiss Eta 2836/46 best of all but as the man said, they cost a lot more $$ compared to a DG to buy, service, or replace.

The black refinished dial watch looks good except for all the corrosion specks between the lugs. The case has been expertly refinished and looks good where the gasket seals between the case/caseback but specks like this are a sign of corrosion...maybe under the bezel and maybe only on the surface...who knows? It is probably an average watch that had been extensively worked over to sell. The white dial watch is Ok but has quite a bit of case corrosion showing...and it is 52 years old. I stay away from case corrosion if I can because it never gets any better and there is no fix other than cutting the gasket area down or welding and machining. I had one case that looked good except there were pits between the lugs and it turned out there was a hole rotted all the way through the top of the case under the bezel. The bottom side of the case, gasket area etc looked good. Have a low mileage 1603 DJ from the early 1970s that has not been buffed/polished and it looks 90%+ on the outside but there is a bit of corrosion on the case where the gasket seals and a chunk rotted out of the caseback. You never know what is hiding out of sight on these things. cc33: "...try to stay away from ebay if you can generally better and more honest deals to be had on the forums." Agree 100%, eBay is a minefield.

"Have you ever been 100% happy with a rep OTB?" Yes, but only a few times and only with quartz powered watches. How come? Because I figure mechanical movements are usually 'Dry and Dirty' so I dig into them. They turn out to be 'D&D' most of the time. (I do not worry about 'D&D' quartz watches) This shows what can happen with 'D&D' mech movements: http://home.watchprosite.com/show-nblog.post/ti-432276/

I agree with this statement: "As a watchmaker on this board I can provide some insights in how we work. No watchmaker (who is in his right mind) will ever accept 100 watches for repair, service or whatever in one single time frame. On average we are talking about 20-30 watches at a time for watchmakers who do this for a living. And let me tell you that those numbers are already very difficult to handle for one man." After reading about MD2020 I thought about a repair guy I knew for years. I did some case/bracelet/crystal work for him and here is basically how he did it: Never take in more than 20 watches at a time...battery jobs being the one exception. Keep in mind that crowns, gaskets etc can be a real problem for battery changes in many brands...TAG Heuer and Breitling crowns for instance. Many times it is better to 'send them on down the street'. Do not take in rusty, disassembled, or replica watches. Enter each watch in a log book with customer name, contact information, description of watch, defect if known, and take-in date/time. Make a note of obvious nicks/scratches and have the customer sign and date the ticket. Tell the customer approximately when the watch will be ready and notify them if there will be a delay as soon as it is known. Write 'Will Call' on the ticket if the customer will drop by in a week or two to get the watch. Notify the customer after a reasonable time has passed and the watch has not been picked up (usually 30 days). If it is a 'You Call' ticket...call them and let them know as soon as it is finished...3 times maximum if no answer or no reply to messages. Make a note in the log book when calls are made. After 120 days from the finished repair date, the watch may be sold for charges if no response from customer....it plainly stated this on the ticket that the customer signed when they left the watch. (He kept 'orphans' for years and hardly ever sold one. I bought a watch in 2005 with a 1973 repair date on it.) Keep all watches to be repaired in a locked box with customer info on each one. Keep all finished watches in a locked box with owner's name along with date of completion and date/time of contacts. Never have more than 5 watches apart waiting on parts at one time. Do nothing to the watch (cleaning etc) until all of the parts are in hand. If you can not get the parts in a month or two, put it together and give it back to the owner at minimum or no charge. Chronographs are an exception...let the owner know up front that there will be a minimum charge for taking the mvt apart and putting it back together if no parts are available. Do not get overly friendly with customers because anyone in the watch repair business can get too many 'friends' real quick. 　 Rule #1...Business is Business.

"removing factory installed hands can trash them in a hurry for sure (Omega especially?)... My Smithy is Omega certified and has worked for decades - but says they often get trashed in the removal. I watched him remove a set off a new Speedy I bought and it was true, they were on so tight reuse after removal was a miracle and hit and miss at best." I have seen this many times, usually the sweep second hand tube stays on the ss pinion and the hand pulls off the rivet and comes off with the H and M hands. It is hard to fix so I usually do not even try because it is hard to make the rivet look right. Also seen quite a few bent hour hands where they are stuck and the puller bends them. Minute hands cause very little trouble. It's not only hands that get stuck...yesterday I was working on a rolex 1560 where someone (not me this time) had pressed the sweep second pinion drive wheel down so tight that it scratched the pizz out of the brass wheel when the three jaw puller slipped off the wheel. This wheel has to be removed to take the movement apart. It's always something...

"I ordered one. I'll let you guys know how it is." I saw bracelets similar to this now and then at NAWCC shows years ago and was not sharp enough to buy any. Iirc they are very close in looks and quality to the old C&I bracelets that were used on rolex watches back then. Compared to what a worn out C&I 'stretcher' goes for today, they are bargains. Odds and ends... A while back I bought a nos rivet stretch oyster that was made like the C&I but does not have a brand name on it. The clasp cap has a coronet stamped in it with 6 adjustment holes and the clasp blade only has 'stainless steel' stamped on it. The hoods are made on the bracelet and are 19.85mm wide but the clasp cap is only 14mm wide instead of 16mm. It must have been made for rolex watches years ago but this is the first one I have ever seen. I tried it on a 1603 DJ and it fits fine. Also found a 17mm nos stretch rivet oyster style bracelet made without a clasp...it is made in one piece and you either slip it over the wrist or unhook one end from the springbar. One end of the bracelet has a closed tube for the springbar and the other end has an open tube that will unhook from the springbar. I keep an eye open for these old bracelets but they are few and far between.

From a MC rider since 1962...two thumbs up!

"I only couldn't decide whether I like more the old classy 16610 or the newer fat lug ceramic 116610." I will always see the matte dial 16800 as the classic sapphire submariner with the 16610 next in line with lug hole cases ranking above blind lug cases. I do not consider the ceramics to be 'tool watches' because of the 'Crack Me Up!' bezel inserts. "The vintage Sub is a beautiful example of superb industrial design, every element is just right." I agree. Compared to the 5512/13 and 1680 the sapphire models simply are not 'real submariners' to me. The older acrylic models were made by a much different rolex watch co than what it has become and today's models are made for a different type of customer. Same for the DJ...a sapphire 36mm or 41mm DJ does not compare to a nice 1603 'pie pan' as far as I am concerned. Imho... Acrylics = Cool Vintage Watches! Sapphires = Night Club Watches! Ceramics = Bling! Crack! Double Dammit!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$sssssssssssssss!!! (Vintage Acrylics' = 1520/30/60/70 powered models, no 1030 models because of hard to find parts.)

I have owned a few genuine 8mm crowns in the past and they were tap 10 (.9mm). Now have one high quality replica 8mm crown and it is also tap 10. All my genuine 1030/35 rolex stems are tap 10. .9mm = tap 10 1.0mm = tap 9 1.1mm = tap 8 Modern Eta 2824/36/2892 stems are all tap 10 so if you have an Eta stem, compare it with the threads on the broken stem.