panerai153

I really don't have a dog in this fight, as I very, very seldom buy a new watch from a dealer. Probably 2-3 in the last 3 years. In the past I have bought from off site dealers with good results, but I also have visited the sites of the real scammers, and they have such a compelling story, it's hard not to get seduced. i know that when I first got into reps back in around 2004-on the old TRC, I was pretty knowledgeable about watches, but knew absolutely nothing about reps. i went to a few of the sites that were around back then, and almost pulled the trigger on a rep or two, but something wasn't clicking. One thing that made me suspicious was the "forums" they sponsored. It was pretty easy to see that the only comments that were allowed to get posted were rave reviews.No matter how good you are, how good your product is and how good your service is, there are going to be folks who aren't satisfied, and like here, they will post their negative feedback. Never saw that on any of those site forums. I believe that most members are well meaning in their recommendations that folks should use the trusted dealers. If you are a noob, and you don't know anything, it's probably safer to use one of these dealers, or a dealer on one of the other forums. After a member acquires a knowledge base, and is astute enough to glean through everything on a particular site, and is knowledgeable enough and comfortable with taking a chance, then I believe that it's perfectly OK to shop around. By that time hopefully the new member is reading and participating in discussions and is able to ask intelligent questions that will get an answer other than, "you need to read and research before you ask questions'" Heck, it's difficult enough buying watches in the rep world. i was in line for one of the WM9 SD's, that never came to pass, to the tune of 375.00 USD !! And while WM9 was not one of our trusted dealers, he was trusted and respected by a lot of members simply because he produced outstanding watches, and had until the "vanishing act" delivered what he promised.We have had some trusted dealers here that have gone south, some with a fair amount of member funds. Remember Eurotimez? Great watches, but couldn't keep all the balls in the air. So I'm not espousing a "party line" as I know that there are pitfalls with all the dealers, trusted or not. the difference is if one reads and does their homework, they will find enough feedback both positive and negative to at least make a fairly intelligent decision as to what they want and who they buy from. They can see lots of reviews and posts by members of watches offered by the dealers here, along with pretty candid evaluations and critiques of the watches. On the other hand all those safeguards are not available when one buys a watch from another source, unless of course the other source is selling a lot of watches to members, but is not, for whatever reason, a trusted dealer. Back in the old days Maria and George were pretty much the only sources for MBW watches. I don't think either of them were ever trusted dealers, but they sold a lot of very good watches to a lot of members. they and their watches got lots of comments and reviews, which were probably helpful to other members who wanted a "polex 1680" So what i'm trying to say in a million words or less, is the new member, who doesn't know anything at all, and doesn't know enough to even ask the right questions, would probably be safer dealing with the dealers that have been vetted by the admin and mods on the forum. When the little bird feels like he's ready to fly, then he can safely leave the confines of the forum and buy from whomever he pleases. by that time if he gets scammed, then it's sort of "Shame on me" for doing something stupid, rather than "Shame on all those RWG member"s who wouldn't help me avoid the pitfalls of a new member.

I would try to find a genuine handset, try over on the VRF marketplace. they won't be that cheap, but they are genuine. Other than that, I would look at everyones aftermarket handset and compare them to genuine.

I agree, the minute hand doesn't look right. All the Tudor Hands should fit an ETA as that's what is in the genuine Tudors. I would look at photos of genuine watches and compare the hands.

i think that a lot of those old guys are just really looking for something to do and someone who shares their passion for watches. Not much real watchmaking going on these days. Most of what theyare doing is battery changes, adjusting a new bracelet, etc. most of the watches sold today are "throwaway". Folks go out and buy a 30-50 buck quartz, and when it' stops, they throw it in the trash and buy another, or at best they take it to the watch guy in the mall or Walmart, and get the battery changed. If it's not a run down battery, it's trashed. SO when someone comes along that has a "real" watch with a "real" mechanical movement, they are tickled to work on it. Not all of them, but quite a lot, especiallly those in small towns and small cities.

I don't have a "Black Lung, but I do (At least the lovely wife does) have the Correline that's in Dr Millars book , All I got in the book was my lousy ,only one found in the world so far, Doxa Pre-Sub. But you could do a whole lot worse than a Doxa vintage. and as the old man from the North said, they aren't repped, they have a wonderful diving history, Clive Cussler wears one, they co-invented the HRV, Dirk Pitt wears one, and they are great watches with a "history", That Texan that all the women go gaga and jelly legged over in "Sahara" wears one. Coralline Pre-Sub Doxa Dive watch My lowly Sub 300T Pro

i'm very partial to GMT type watches, as they have a great deal of utility for me. i travel a fair amount, my wife travels as well. It's always nice to know the time at home as well as where we/ I / She is. So either the JLC or the PAM would be my choices. the JLC would be my first choice and the Pam a very distant second. i had a watch very similar to the JLC, a Maurice Lacroix Revil Globe. It had almost exactly the same configuration as the JLC. I would not consider this a watch that would go well with a suit as it's pretty big and hulking. As I seldom wear a suit, it, the ML Revil Globe, wasn't a problem for me. i seriously doubt that the JLC will ever be replicated in anything like a believable replica.

Because they go to the rip off sites, and are seduced by the photos (Hell, they ought to be good, most are photos of genuine watches!!) as well as the total lying BS that the sites hype. Swiss made replicas, 14k real solid gold, Top grade Swiss ETA movements, and on and on and on. They make you believe that the 500 USD Replica from them is the same 6,000 USD watch that Rolex produces, just a different movement. The sucker noobs come to their senses when the watch arrives (If it even arrives!) What they saw in the ads is a far cry from what they are holding in their hand. Then they realize "i've been ripped off"

And wear them you should, because they are both mighty fine watches!! i could make a comment about those old eyes, but since I'm a nice guy and older than you, I won't.

All lthings considered, I would use WU for a watch from a trusted dealer, but you are correct, WU is a no recourse money transfer system, period! Once you hit send, it's gone. The biggest problem with WU is the cost. they are prohibitive. you might pay 40-50 dollars to transfer 400-500 USD. MoneyGram is a little cheaper, but not much. Idiots with unrealistic expectations and the inability to wait a reasonable amount of time for their goods are the reason so many dealers are having problems with PayPal.A couple of disputes filed, and the account is suspended, funds frozen and ultimately cancelled. Paypal is a private business, they make the rules, and you play by them or you are out.

Although I have a pretty nice Double red, I agree with alligoat, the price of genuine DRSD's has gone through the roof in the past few years. not to say that white's haven't gone up, but they haven't gone up at the rare that DRSD's have increased. So the first thingIi would ask myself, are you able, age wise and finance wise to pull of wearing a 15- 25k watch. If you think you can, then by all means go for the DRSD, but if you are young and in an entry level job, you will always live in fear of the DRSD triggering some potentially embarrassing questions. you don't want to have a watch that you are afraid of wearing out in public.

I expect that if your friend had taken it to a pawn shop in Dallas, he would have gotten no more than what you gave him. Another factor in a private sale, legally he would have to disclose the particulars about how he came to get the watch. Not sure if a pawn shop would spring for it after the disclosure. The same with selling it on Craigslist or on a watch forum. There is always the possibility, ever so slight that the father who is the rightful owner of the watch comes back and demands his watch. The son cannot produce it, so if he was a real a**hole, which he has already established by walking out on his family of many years, tells the son, "I'm giving you 24 hours to produce my watch, or I'm going to the police and file a complaint that you stole my watch". Now what does the son do? And what do you do? there is a possibility that you both could be in trouble. Probably isn't going to happen, but just because he got the watch free from his father's business, doesn't exclude the fact that the watch was his, and you and the son are both guilty of "conversion of property" if the issue ever comes up.One factor that makes this a little cloudy, is the time frame we are talking about. If it was an older 16610, It could have been sitting in that safe for 10-15 years, and the father probably has long ago forgotten about the watch, especially if he's been gone for 10 years. This is a relatively new model, it's been out what, 2 years tops, so it hasn't been around for long which means that he hasn't been gone for long. Who knows, maybe he was waiting for things to cool off around the old homestead, and then he was going to come in and retrieve all his property. If that's the case, I would expect that you and the son better be saving up your money in case the manure hits the ventilator!! Had it been me in this situation, I would probably buy the watch, if it was offered legitimately to me, and it wasn't a case of the friend asking me "what is this Rolex worth"? And my answer "i have 2700.00 USD in my jeans, will you take that for it". If he said, "I want to sell this watch, and I want 3k for it" and you said, "I've got 2700, and that's all I've got" and he says "OK, I'll take 2700," then to me that's and arms length transaction. It sounds to me like he wanted to unload the watch for some quick cash, possibly knowing that at some point in time, his old man might come back around looking for his stuff. The only thing i would do differently, I would hold on to the watch for a reasonable length of time, just in case the son, and you, got in hot water over the deal. you see, If the father got mad and got the police involved, he's older and will probably have more influence on the police, especially because he will have told his story first, and the fact is, the watch cannot be accounted for. This great deal could go south fast if the police said you better produce the watch or a comparable one or you both are in deep doodoo! Might have to go buy it, or another one just like it, back at retail,

Since you aren't mentioning any vintage models, I would have to go with the GMT. Very nice watch.

Hey guys, he lives in Texas, they got different rules there!! He didn't say how long the guy had been gone for either, he could have disappeared a year ago. I would bet that if he had wanted the Rolex, he would have taken it when he bailed, or at least come back or sent someone over to get it.Community property state, half of what he owns belongs to his wife anyway. I wouldn't worry about it for one minute, the problem if there is one will be between him and his wife/family. He's probably really, really happy with his new little Chica, and she's keeping his mind off Rolexes And to agree with everyone thus far except by-tor, I would keep the genuine. you can easily replace the inscribed case back, I bet you could take it over to RSC -Dallas and they could do it on the spot, after you check out the serial # first of course.

Here's and update on the accuracy problem. I sent the Doxa off to my watchmaker, he got it yesterday at 10:00AM, wound it and put it on his bench. He emailed me last evening that it was keeping perfect time, not one second off. Emailed me again today, said it was still perfect, not one second deviation in 22 hours. Now how 'bout them apples. He probably thinks I'm crazy (Which may be true in most cases) What do you think happened? Maybe the jostling around in the mail truck, throwing the box into a bin full of other parcels, somehow jolted the hairspring and it assumed it's normal configuration, or perhaps it's like the 2846 in my GMT 6542. it ran fine while still on a bench or my kitchen counter, but put it on and move it around and it went crazy too. Turns out it had a balance staff problem.If the Doxa remains on time I might ask him to wear it for a few hours and see if it will duplicate the same problem that I saw. Or maybe if the jolting around set it straight, I'm good to go?

I totally agree with everyone above. It's too much especially for a "put together" watch. Rolex service would not change the movement to a later one unless the old ones were not available, and they would have done a complete restore, dial, hands, insert, crystal, etc. If you are picking up a watch to use as a beater, and the price is really really good, you can put up with some inconsistencies, but collectors want the watch to be original, or as close to original as possible. If a crystal or insert was changed at a service,they would probably be OK, but if it had a service dial, new hands. It would not qualify as original and the price would be less. In this case, changing out the movement to a newer none standard one was a big no-no. A true collector wouldn't touch this one with barge pole. I think you made a wise decision. You may have to pay a little more for a quality example, but you will never regret it, especially if you should decide to sell it down the road.

Here are a few White dials. Alas, the two Genuine Chronoswiss are no longer around, I would love to have the Tora Chrono back, it was a great watch and really handy, with the settable 24 hour dial (2nd time zone) Not exactlu All White, but it's pretty close! The second one the Chronoswiss Regulator, I never really warmed to and it didn't hang around too long. The third is a 14k Gold IWC Calatrava, Dial looks gold in this photo, but it really is white. A great dress watch, really looks good with a dark suit, Tux, etc. One of those watches that every man should have, just for dress wear. The Rolex 6542 is my latest project watch, It's now getting the movement overhauled, hopefully will be home soon.

I suspect he will get banned at some future point in time, not because of this remark, but for his attitude, which certainly shows a lack of courtesy, Here is someone who has been here for a whopping one week with 6 posts and he is calling folks, who have been here for a whole lot longer and who have made meaningful contributions to the forum, retards? Im sure with an attitude of disrespect like this, he's not going to be around long!

Are some of these Ebay sellers smoking crack, or am I just so far out the loop. I'm stuck in the 1970's? Here is a dial that looks like it went through the Nanug survival testing program, and it failed. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-Tudor-Submariner-Gilt-Dial-7922-7924-/221145781227?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337d50d3eb First off it's hard to see how the dial got so beaten up, yet the white writing is very readable. looks like it was hand drawn over the old letters with a white marker. And the best, it's not 49.00 USD. it's not 490.00 USD, he's asking 4900.00 USD for this dial. I know these are rare, but come on, 4.9K?

Very, very nice!!

Thanks Chief, my old eyes must have been playing tricks on me. Lack of sleep! Beautiful watch and one i'm sure will always have a special place because of the wonderful little girl it helped.

I really don't have a dog in this fight, because I rarely ever buy a watch new from a dealer. I would much rather buy one from a member on the sales forum, for several reasons, one generally the price is less than new, two the member has already sorted out the problems, or if there are known problems they are disclosed, and last if I purchase watches here in the USA, there are no customs problems, and shipping is generally pretty reasonable. Having said all this, I believe that some of the problems especially with new members is their expectations are way too high. you are buying a rep of a 5-50 K watch for 150- 400 USD, it's unrealistic to expect the quality of a genuine Rolex Submariner in a 125 dollar copy. Second, they watch factories have absolutely, and I mean absolutely no quality control. The watches are being assembled in dirty warehouse like settings by folks that don't have any training in watchmaking at all. they may have been assembling IPads or waffle irons the week before! movements are bought in bulk, and sit around until cased. they aren't cleaned oiled or regulated. Vintage watches with old movements are worse, they shuck out movements from old watches like your local seafood guy shucks oysters (with about the same regard for cleanliness) These dirty, dry and often broken movements are cased and the finished watch is shipped to a dealer, not an AD, just a dealer, like our TD's here. The dealer has pretty much zero input with the factory, regarding exchanges, repairs, parts, etc. So the dealer gets the watches, he may do a visual inspection to make sure all the pieces are there, some may even go so far as to take the back off and try to regulate the watch, Take photos for you the buyer, wrap it up in a bubble wrap package and send it off. It's not in a nice sturdy box, inside a bigger box filled with packing peanuts like a genuine watch is shipped, it's got the minimum protection that will allow it to be mailed. You receive the watch and right off, it's not quite like the genuine 16610 that your friend owns, plus the end links don't fit very nicely and it's running +5 minutes per day!! You email the dealer, but he's moved on to the next customer, he sends you an email back in a few days telling you the watch was fine when it left his place. Probably he offers to give you a discount on your next order, or maybe he tells you to send the watch back (on your dime of course) for repair. Now you're really mad. you got a watch that didn't meet your elevated unrealistic expectations plus it's not running right. you shoot off a couple of more emails, getting madder by the second. By this time the dealer is not going to return your emails, as he feels like he has made you a reasonable offer which you ignored. Now the ball is in your court, you can suck it up, chalk it up to experience and move on, try to find a watchmaker that will get your watch regulated and at the very least get it running right, you can rant and rave here on the forum ad nauseum which won't do any good but it may make you feel better, or you can do like a lot of noobs seem to be doing lately, contact PayPal and tell them your tale of woe and open a dispute. Bad choice!! Actually both the last two are both bad choices. there is very little the forum mods and members can do to help you with a dealer dispute, unless it's got the appearance of a scam. Opening a paypal dispute will put you in a position where you put the dealer in jeopardy, inconvenience lots and lots of future buyers, including yourself (If you ever decide to buy another rep) and if paypal finds out that the item in question was counterfeit, you not only will not get your money back, but Paypal will probably flag your account for scrutiny on every purchase going forward. So noobs, read the reviews, read the forum information and after you read about rep watches and feel like you have a good handle on what they are all about, Then decide if they are for you.

My everyday does everything, dirty MKII Kingston

I hate to start a rant, but I'm completely floored by the number of folks who show up here, and obviously register, go to the general discussion page or the particular brand forum and ask questions that if they had done the tiniest bit of research, their questions would be answered in detail. I know they are noobs, but I promise you when I started back in 06', If you asked questions like some of these guys do, the flamers would have burned you to a crisp! Luckily for the noobs, and everyone else, this forum is a whole lot more civil and tolerant than the old RWG. Maybe that's why they are here, thye first visited some of the other rep forums, and they got a pretty chilly (Or hot) reception. Another factor that chaps some of the regulars here is a lot of new members come here, expressly to buy one or two reps, they never upgrade their membership, never participate in discussions, but if they have a problem with a rep either from a Dealer or another member, they are the first to cause problems, open Paypal disputes or bad mouth the forum on other venues. So come on new guys, help yourselves by doing a little research. I know for a fact that most of the regulars here are more than willing to help with intelligent questions that reflect a little research on your part, but when you ask questions that could have been answered with 10 minutes of reading, it gets a little tiresome for the folks who did their research when they had a question. Use the search function, read the stickies, read the first forum for new members. there are guys here who have been on this forum less than a year, and they are way, way more knowledgable about rep watches than myself, but I can guarantee you, they read everything they could and became valuable participants in forum discussions.

Not sure that BK is even building those anymore, at least not the noobmariner GMT. Best bet is to watch the sales forum here and try to pick up a BK/noob GMT. They aren't going to be cheap, but they are the best around. One of the problems is there really never has been a good Rolex 1675 or 16750 rep. maybe a 16710. the problem with hte older GMT's is the genuine uses a tiny 5.3mm crown. All the reps use a 6mm crown, and it's a big tell. you can't just replace the 6mm with a 5.3mm because then you have a big gap between the crown and the crownguards. Almost all the 16710 GMT's have movements with incorrect hand stacks, so there is no Nirvana!! Before you spring for one read everything you can find about the GMT Read this: http://www.rwg.cc/topic/35969-review-of-rolex-gmt-master-ii-tw-best-outdated-model/ and all of By-Tors reviews of the different GMT's OK, that's the last of the pablum, you're on your own from now on, too much spoon feeding defeats the purpose!

Absolutely insame how expensive Rolex bracelets have become. Totally out the roof for a basically mass produced item. It certainly doesn't take a watchmakers skills to assemble a bracelet!!