Good Grief insane Daytona Price

[StormTooper4]

Some people simply have far too much money and too little sense

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The World Of Rolex Collectors Just Got A Bit Crazier – A $469,809.24 Rolex Oyster Cosmograph ‘Paul Newman’

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A number of watch auctions took place in Geneva last week, Sotheby’s had one on Sunday the 14th and Christies on Monday the 15th. At least with the auction over at Sotheby’s on Monday, the world of collecting vintage Rolex watches has become a little bit crazier than it already was.

Estimated at 60,000 – 80,000 Swiss Francs, this ca.1969 Rolex Oyster Cosmograph Daytona ref.6239 with discolored brown dial was hammered at 464,500 CHF (which is $469,809.24 USD at the time of writing).

A collector must have thought this Daytona was worth almost half a million dollars because of the discolored dial, the unusual dial print and the condition of the watch. The case and bracelet were (still) unpolished and therefore in original condition.

As with all vintage Rolex Oyster Cosmos, the movement is far from being interesting (based on a Valjoux 72) but it is mainly about condition, rarity and whether a watch comes complete with box and papers or not. Personally, I really love this brown dial with white sub-dials and red printed minute markers on the outside of the dial. It is one of the nicest Daytona dial combinations out there.

Like all vintage Daytona watches, this watch has a diameter of only 37mm. When you see a vintage Daytona for the first time, you might even overlook it when it is sitting in between its 40mm friends.

More information about this Sotheby’s lot 104 can be found here. On the Vintage Rolex Forum, you can find a report on the Geneva auction with lots of pictures (click here).

[JoJo35]

An ultra rare gem. IMO, the hammer price is good news, and shows a recovery of collectors pieces.

[lhooq]

Well, how much would you pay to have the Cosmograph above the Oyster?

Doesn't seem so expensive now, does it?!

[JoeyB]

That's very good news for my Son. The genuine replica Rolex GMT 'JoeyB' will make him rich when I kick the bucket...

[alligoat]

I sure don't understand why they call it a 6263/6239- there's nothing 6239 I can see about it.

Looks like the Swiss franc is achieving parity with the US dollar- guess it won't be long before it's worth more.

[praetor]

I've read about this one. They say it's also expensive because of the order of the writing:

ROlEX

Cosmograph

Oyster

instead of

Rolex

Oyster

cosmograph.

80% of the price would come from the rarity of the dial alone. In gens, there's no solid line differentiating models in auctions; that when you actually look at the case number, it would read 6239, but it has the features of 6263. Guess who built a franken way back when? :whistling: And this would make it more rare. :bangin:

Edited November 26, 2010 by praetor

[panerai153]

The world of collecting, be it watches ,old masters, exotic cars, etc is as my wife terms it "a dark forest" I suppose not ever having the amount of disposable income that these folks have makes it incomprehensible. Put in perspective, if you have a net worth of billions, what's a 500k purchase. Another thing that always worries me about auctions is how much "Shill' bidding is going on. you have all sorts of frenzy on the auction floor as well as a bank of telephone operatives. Who knows if that person on the phone is actually raising the bid, or the operator is listening to the Time and temperature in Geneva!

Another way of looking at this is from and investment standpoint, the Euro is looking pretty shaky now and over the long haul. So what would you rather have in your portfolio, a really sterling example of a rare Rolex, or Spanish or Irish bonds?

[dieselpower]

Some classic car prices are crazy too. I was at the auction where a McLaren F1 went for over £2m. The car was worth about £1m at the time but some guy really wanted it and was clearly prepared to pay any price. Good luck to the seller I say, but remember. In the 1980's Jaguar E types were going for £75k. How much for a nice one now, and I mean a really really nice one? £75k, not much return on your investment

[praetor]

It's funny because it's due to those collectors that I've found a picture of a vintage daytona and wanted it. But it's also becuase of them that prices went up so drastically . If it weren't for those collectors, I'd figure daytonas should be worth around the $5000-7000 range?

[freddy333]

Well, how much would you pay to have the Cosmograph above the Oyster?

That is the real selling point for this watch & I have never seen another dial like it. Notice that the long-tail 3 in the minutes totalizer (top right subdial) is missing its 'tail'. The crystal is scratched above it, so it could be a refraction issue, but I have my doubts.

Some classic car prices are crazy too. In the 1980's Jaguar E types were going for £75k. How much for a nice one now, and I mean a really really nice one? £75k, not much return on your investment

Yea, but an E-Type is still an E-Type.

[Migge]

Some classic car prices are crazy too. I was at the auction where a McLaren F1 went for over £2m. The car was worth about £1m at the time but some guy really wanted it and was clearly prepared to pay any price. Good luck to the seller I say, but remember. In the 1980's Jaguar E types were going for £75k. How much for a nice one now, and I mean a really really nice one? £75k, not much return on your investment

My dad has a 1965 flatfloor coupe Jaguar E-type lightweight (Full aluminum incl the motor parts) bought in the 1980´s and the return on that investment is extremely good.... LOL... Come to think of it my fathers car collection has been his best (economical) investment in terms of return of investment!

Forgot to add something on topic:

I do admire that daytona, a lot, but how much higher can prices get? Will my generation (Im 27) have the same admiration amd passion for the same vintage pieces as the "older" generations?

[dieselpower]

Of course certain classic cars were a brilliant investment - look at a 250 GTO for example. But my point was that they are not all cast iron and bomb proof. I actually think that in the case of this Daytona the investment may hold as it ticks the rarity box big time.

@ freddy333 - yes and E type is an E type, but it's not a D type

[sneed12]

Looks like the Swiss franc is achieving parity with the US dollar- guess it won't be long before it's worth more.

It's worth more right now. This is the second time that's happened in the last 4 years.

I lived in Switzerland for much of the last four years, but was still getting paid in US dollars, so I tracked the exchange rate quite closely. When it was .85 CHF /1 USD, that meant I got to splurge a little, when it was 1.05 CHF / 1 USD (like now) that meant I had to skip meals...

[nomad89]

The buyer should contact DW.

[freddy333]

@ freddy333 - yes and E type is an E type, but it's not a D type

A D is certainly worth more, but I prefer the E (I have owned a '61 & a '74 V12 &, regardless of their variable values, they are brilliant cars that will never be worth-less ).

[Ronin]

The buyer should contact DW.

[dieselpower]

A D is certainly worth more, but I prefer the E (I have owned a '61 & a '74 V12 &, regardless of their variable values, they are brilliant cars that will never be worth-less ).

Each to his own. I love the E but for me it's the D that floats my boat, especially the XK SS. Don't want to be a total thread hijacker but which did you prefer, the 6 cyl or the V12?

[freddy333]

Don't want to be a total thread hijacker but which did you prefer, the 6 cyl or the V12?

Jag's V12 engine is 1 of the most brilliant devices mankind has ever devised. That said, I think the 6 works better in the E. The shorter body & more evenly balanced weight distribution work better. I miss the V12, but I pine for my 6.

[Dizzy]

so back on topic...

This auction price is insane. Basicly over $400,000 was paid just because of the dial variation. Hard to believe. I guess some people have too much money, I doubt the owner would ever lose his investment but I guess if you have a half mil to spend on a Rolex, you arnt too worried about investing your money properly anymore lol.

The only visual difference between this watch and my DW is that mine is the 3CROC aka 'Mayer dial' which some people think is fake even though it has been through, and authenticated by RSC... then again I have never seen this exact 3CRCO dial before so.... I would like to see all the paperwork that comes with this one.

[lhooq]

There's only one other picture I've ever seen of this type of dial, which we are assured (by no less than Kamal 'the Highlander'!) is the only correct 3-color Newman with screwdowns. The photo is shamelessly lifted from Stefano Mazzariol's blog:

Freddy's tail is intact on this one.

If the standard Daytona is an E-Type, and the Newman a D-, then this is more of an XJ13!

EDIT: Whoops! I forgot about another photo of an RCO dial, found here on the adult website BJsOnline .

[freddy333]

The 1 thing that lends the $400k watch a good deal of credulity (though, due to that funky 3, I remain unconvinced) is that it has the correct (1st gen) version of screw-down pushers. Look closely at the flat knurling on the pushers, which compares perfectly with other 1st gen 6263s to which Mazzariol's watch also matches exactly.

[flex]

3 colour 6263 PN.. rarest PN out there

[Dizzy]

Then you can get into the debate about the 3CROC "Mayer" dials.. if they are gen, then they are about the same rarity. Apparently (according to John Mayer) they have been through RSC service and released without Rolex making any comments, but most hardcore collectors still doubt they were born at the Rolex factory... You would think if it was a redial, then Rolex wouldn't work on it.... Perhaps even Rolex themselves dont know whats what anymore these days...

[StormTooper4]

Regardless of rarity, and you can justify it all you like gentlemen and what people do with their money is their own affair, but frankly its obscene but I'm sure all the old school daytona owners out there are very pleased with this news