JoeyB Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Well, that's pretty much what we said all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 But it seems to me that to characterize the watch as a gen 6542 with refinished dial is certainly reasonable. Which is exactly the way the watch was described towards the beginning of this thread ('my '42 is all gen except for the insert. Yes, I repainted the (gen) dial white instead of its original black, but the watch is certainly not a replica') & why I keep scratching my head over this debate Out of curiousity, will Rolex certify vintage rolexes as "gen" anymore. I know the guys at the NY service center won't service them anymore. Other than the documentation you receive from service, Rolex will not authenticate (certify) watches. The main reasons they no longer accept vintage watches for service is the lack of replacement parts, the liability issues that relate to servicing collectibles (they do not want to risk being held responsible for damaged/lost watches/parts) & they want to sell new watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Freddy, one more important point that has not been made here: the dial painters you used will refuse to repaint a dial to change its "denomination" for lack of a better word. They will not paint COMEX where it does not belong and they will not change a Daytona into a PN. Period. They were willing to repaint my Radial dial as a glossy gilt 1675 only because there was no original documentation showing my '64 as matte or gilt, and the original dial had been changed by Rolex NYC to the "radial" variant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Freddy, one more important point that has not been made here: the dial painters you used will refuse to repaint a dial to change its "denomination" for lack of a better word. They will not paint COMEX where it does not belong and they will not change a Daytona into a PN. Period. True. Because they do work for Rolex, they cannot convert models or repaint aftermarket dials. Though they do allow the customer some latitude with the details as long as the scope remains within the model spec. Since most vintage Rolex models were offered in white, silver or black dials, I think they just assume these are all within spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 My first and last words on this. We have a forum rule- [26] - NO replica pictures should be posted on the genuine time piece forums by the members of RWG. A violation of this rule will get you permanently banned. Our little underground hobby does not need this kind of attention. The emphasis is mine! Isn't this little bit of forum baiting in direct contravention of this rule? Poor form. Offshore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygt Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Freddy, would it help your delusions if, instead of fake, we called your watch Michael Jackson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Freddy, would it help your delusions if, instead of fake, we called your watch Michael Jackson? You can call it anything you want, but I would watch the personal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygt Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 It's not a personal attack it's just a fact. I'll carry on calling it fake in that case as I'm still not seeing your new threads, emporer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Wow, this has been a heck of read. I have not seen such a good volley since I ran a Commodore 64 BBS in 1985! I love the watch personally. I think Nanuq summed it up best above. HOWEVER, the Acid Test-- Post it for sale on eBay, and take bets on if/when it will get flagged down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sconehead Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 With no papers or provenance it would be sure to get pulled, at the end of the day this is just a watch cobbled together from spare gen parts,, a nice watch maybe, but the repainted dial tips it as being considered a true 'fake' imo...plus I agree totally in what OS posted above and feel that Nanuq's tenure at TRF may be short lived as a result of all this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I checked it out and that is correct, a custom dialed watch would be refused service from Rolex. Nonetheless, the DateJust is still a genuine DateJust but with a custom dial. If they are not still genuine, then there are whole bunch of watches being sold as genuine when they are not. Of course it's all moot, as freddy would not want a service from Rolex. The point I made is that freddy's watch is a genuine Rolex, as is the DateJust, but with a replacement insert and repainted dial. I quite agree that that is precisely what Freddy's watch is, and while I totally understand him describing it as a 'gen repainted dial', I quite understand others who have said that the dial is fake. While the constituents of the dial, base plate, inks, even the skills of the artist who re-finished it, all were Rolex authorized elements in their own right, the fact that the dial was refinished to customer request different to the dial's original appearance, makes the dial a reproduction, rather than a restoration. To look at it another way... Someone steals a load of paper from the US Mint. They also steal inks, presses, plates, and kidnap a few workers as well... What would be printed would be the ultimate in counterfeit money and 100% unidentifiable and indistinguishable from Uncle Sam-issued greenbacks. But it would still be counterfeit money as it was created 'outside the system'. Personally, I have no issue with what Freddy has done, I think it's an amazing piece, and I think getting the dial re-finished thus is a stroke of genius. As an artist, I appreciate the work which the refinisher had to do on the dial more than anything else, because parts are just parts, they go together, but actually creating something (like with your insert) that is a different matter and a different skillset altogether I can also see why some people have stood up and said that the dial should not be considered as gen, but as a fake. With all due respect, I cannot help but feel that this is karma paying Freddy back, as before he built his albino, he convinced another member not to undertake the same project, as it would be identified as a fake on sight due to its rarity. Some time after, he decided to undertake the same project and got some serious kudos for the build. I'm not trying to put Freddy down here, I have too much appreciation for his skills to do that, I've just tried to balance the both sides of the discussion, and calling the situation as I see it [Edit to add] With regards the hypothetical DJ, I'm not surprised that Rolex would decline the service. While they would decline the service of any other 6542, they would be declining the service for a different reason for declining the service of the hypothetical DJ. 6542 gets declined due to age, as Freddy mentioned above, due to Rolex's unwillingness to assume responsibility for the safekeeping of an old watch which they may not be able to replace any parts accidentally damaged during service. Personally, I think that's a poor show. In situations like that, given how Rolex insists that its watches only be serviced by them to maintain warranty (ie they clearly view the watch as their own property, rather than the clients') I feel they should accept the service, and if anything is damaged, simply manufacture replacement parts and have them artificially aged to match with the rest of the watch. Given their resources, I know they could do it if they wanted to (but I can also understand their reason for not wanting to do so ) Hypothetical DJ, on the other hand, is declined service due to voided warranty. I remember in one of the Bond novels (I forget which one, but I believe OHMSS) Fleming describes Bond's car as not only having been modified, but that the manufacturer had washed their hands of the car because of said modifications... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SliceMaster Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 My first and last words on this. We have a forum rule- [26] - NO replica pictures should be posted on the genuine time piece forums by the members of RWG. A violation of this rule will get you permanently banned. Our little underground hobby does not need this kind of attention. The emphasis is mine! Isn't this little bit of forum baiting in direct contravention of this rule? Poor form. Offshore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollux1 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Wise words indeed O/S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 My first and last words on this. We have a forum rule- [26] - NO replica pictures should be posted on the genuine time piece forums by the members of RWG. A violation of this rule will get you permanently banned. Our little underground hobby does not need this kind of attention. The emphasis is mine! Isn't this little bit of forum baiting in direct contravention of this rule? Poor form. Offshore As Interesting a read as this thread is...and It is Indeed a Interesting thread for sure. I have to go along with OS...I will leave it at that...I feel that OS put this thread In It's proper perspective. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Fleming describes Bond's car as not only having been modified, but that the manufacturer had washed their hands of the car because of said modifications... I think comparing cars and watches is a good way to look at it. Years ago while in high school a friend bought a `67 Mustang. Within hours he changed the Ford 4bbl carb to a Holley double pumper. Of course the warranty was void, but it was never going back to Ford anyway. The thing is, it was still a genuine Mustang. Still a genuine Ford. It was never a "fake ass" at all. Today you can buy all the parts, body, interior, everything, to build a 1960s Corvette on a Chevy S10 pickup truck frame. Is it s genuine Corvette? Even using some genuine Corvette parts is it a real Corvette? Nope. It is just as my 6542 is, a replica. But if you buy a genuine 1960 Corvette frame, buy a genuine 1960 Corvette motor, interior and the rest, it is a genuine 1960 Corvette. And it is worth top dollar as a restored car. If the motor numbers do not match the original, but is still a Chevy engine, it is worth less but it is still a genuine 1960 Corvette, not a "fake ass" and worth only slightly less than the numbers matching car. freddy's watch is not a "fake ass" either. It is a genuine Rolex 6542 with a replacement insert and repainted dial. Just as stated from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) If the motor numbers do not match the original, but is still a Chevy engine, it is worth less but it is still a genuine 1960 Corvette, not a "fake ass" and worth only slightly less than the numbers matching car. freddy's watch is not a "fake ass" either. It is a genuine Rolex 6542 with a replacement insert and repainted dial. Just as stated from the start. Mate you really don't get it do you? freddy's watch is a fake 6542 made from genuine parts. Why? Because of the white painted dial it imitates something it isn't. Therefore a fake or replica. No matter if the refinisher was Rolex certified...That's black market stuff and Rolex would never call that dial "genuine". Moreover the refinisher would never do it officially or bye bye license. It seems like you fail to comprehend the definition of 'replication' or 'fake'. Edited November 26, 2011 by Akira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Poor form. Agreed & I apologized for that near the beginning of this (over-beaten, dead horse) thread. However, referring to this as 'fake' or 'replica' demonstrates naivete (or an anti-RWG agenda) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) Mate you really don't get it do you? freddy's watch is a fake 6542 made from genuine parts. Why? Because of the white painted dial it imitates something it isn't. Therefore a fake or replica. No matter if the refinisher was Rolex certified...That's black market stuff and Rolex would never call that dial "genuine". Moreover the refinisher would never do it officially or bye bye license. It seems like you fail to comprehend the definition of 'replication' or 'fake'. Oh, I get it just fine. You fail to comprehend much at all. But then, all this is just for your entertainment purposes anyway, and I couldn't care less what you think at all. You've always been a simple minded foul-mouthed punk anyway. You and your buddies were bored on your site so you came here to stir up stuff. What new? I'll still be here when you leave. Oh, and I'm certainly not your "mate". I wouldn't even consider it. Edited November 26, 2011 by JoeyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 You've always been a simple minded foul-mouthed punk anyway. You and your buddies were bored on your site so you came here to stir up stuff. What new? I'll still be here when you leave. Oh, and I'm certainly not your "mate". I wouldn't even consider it. No need to take this out personal. I don't even recollect us having an interaction before....so how come you're judging me? However, referring to this as 'fake' or 'replica' demonstrates naivete (or an anti-RWG agenda) Freddy, I have nothing personal against you nor this board....I enjoy hanging out here and I'm in regular contact with lots of considered members as well. If you want we drop it....call it a gen then. If you want to convince us disbelievers, just open a thread on VRF and tell your story You'll get a 2nd, 3rd and 4rd opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Freddy, I have nothing personal against you nor this board....I enjoy hanging out here and I'm in regular contact with lots of considered members as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Have a nice weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 No need to take this out personal. I don't even recollect us having an interaction before....so how come you're judging me? I simply returned the favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted November 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 This has been an interesting thread. In response to the various comments about taking a gen part and modding it, guys on TRF do it all the time. They will add a red date wheel to a Yachtmaster, remove the cyclops, etc. In fact, Sheartime, a known and respected dealer in NYC recently listed a gen vintage Daytona dial which had the big red DAYTONA painted afterwards. It was clearly disclosed in the listing and no one said boo about it. It was a gen dial and it was repainted. I am a huge admirer of everything that is built here and Freddy's 6542 is as he claims. I certainly would love to have it on my wrist one day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispytonyv Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 My first and last words on this. We have a forum rule- [26] - NO replica pictures should be posted on the genuine time piece forums by the members of RWG. A violation of this rule will get you permanently banned. Our little underground hobby does not need this kind of attention. The emphasis is mine! Isn't this little bit of forum baiting in direct contravention of this rule? Poor form. Offshore I think this was the point I tried to make in my post earlier. Ironically, I was a TRF member as well, just lurking but not posting (no gen Rolex for me yet). I attempted to post for the first time, and was immediately banned because my post began "disclosure: I'm also a member of replica forums" even though the text essentially chastised our members for pulling this. Those guys don't kid around... You have been banned for the following reason: Nanuq and replica site supporter! Date the ban will be lifted: Never Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 What the [censored]. They give the ban a name "Nanuq" has they always used this name for a ban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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