Adeodatus Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 So you've got the QC images or your brand new best replica, like, ever, with that incabloc you always dreamed of, as swiss as cheese, but what about your timegrapher results? What dahell are those? Presets Beat Number Frequency, the vibration of a movement. The number of balance wheel swings per hour or how many times the watch ticks per hour. This is a preset, depends on the watch you order. 14,400 bph = 4 beats per second 18,000 bph = 5 beats per second 21,600 bph = 6 beats per second 28,800 bph = 8 beats per second etc Lift Angle The angle the balance passes through while interacting with the pallet fork. Important to be set correctly in order to calculate the Amplitude. This preset is per caliber specs. Most modern watches have a lift angle of 50 - 52 degrees. Generally lift angles range from 44 to 58 degrees. Some other settings are present, for instance Gen co-axials angle is 30 degrees. Results Rate How fast / slow the movement runs (in seconds per day) great : +/- 5 s/d acceptable : +/- 12 s/d If higher / lower? It is possible to adjust this yourself or ask your dealer to nudge it a bit. Amplitude The measure of the amount of rotation in the swing of the balance wheel, in either direction. Amplitude is higher when a watch is lying flat and usually falls when the watch is in a vertical position, due to increased friction. Amplitude can also fall as the watch winds down and the mainspring delivers less power. Amplitude is a good indicator of the movements health and if is too high or too low, or that changes too much in different positions, can indicate a problem with the movement. great : 270-310 acceptable : 250-270 If higher / lower? Ask for a different watch or have your watch serviced Beat Error The amount of time by which the duration of swing differs from one side to the other in the oscillation of a balance wheel. Generally speaking to get a beat error of zero, the roller jewel in the pallet fork must be perfectly centered. great : 0.0-0.5 ms acceptable : 0.6-1 ms If higher? Ask for a different watch or have your watch serviced. * Please note that if you are reading your QC from the dealer, you will generally receive only the results of the watch lying flat. All the above recommended measurements are from that position. The measurements in other positions may vary 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Good clear concise and well writen informative post! I have pinned this but i will move it to movement info once every one has had a change to read this, put put a link in your signature for this! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes, very clear and objective post. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramerica2 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Thanks a lot. Very useful info on a subject that is less known around here. BTW I wouldn't pin the subject so early, i almost didn't notice it at all.. most ppl just scroll down automatically when they browse the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Perfect summary. Thanks for putting it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Very nicely done! Clear, concise and informative! One thing I should point out however. The Timegrapher results are helpful during the QC process, but they in no way negate the need for a proper servicing. The Timegrapher provides an averaging of its readings. It does not show an accurate representation of how well the watch is really running. This is why watch smiths mostly use a Vibrograph or other type of timing system. It shows how regular the beat really is over time and they usually time it in several positions as well. As an example, here you can see a watch timer showing very irregular beat activity: As you can see it is all over the place, however the average is showing that the watch is running at +7.6 sec/day (which isn't too bad). Lift angle is at 52 degrees and Balance Wheel Amplitude is at 285 degrees (which is also pretty good). I usually ignore the averaging and check the watch based on it's paper tape readout. That is a true reading of how well the watch is running. Here is another example of a watch that is running pretty well: This watch ended up timing at +1.6 sec/day in the end, but as you can see on the readout in the background it is running consistent and smooth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slask111 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Great post! I always wondered what all thoose numbers meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'm finding that what a timegrapher says has a rather superficial meaning compared to the real world. Don't expect your watch to maintain a plus or minus 1 second just because it reads that on the timegrapher. There can be a rather large time variation in the different positions. And even more when you factor in the amount of winding tension on the mainspring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 excellent thread...and remember QC can never be good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted March 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'm finding that what a timegrapher says has a rather superficial meaning compared to the real world. Don't expect your watch to maintain a plus or minus 1 second just because it reads that on the timegrapher. There can be a rather large time variation in the different positions. And even more when you factor in the amount of winding tension on the mainspring. ... and even more so in replica watches, since the factory QC is lacking and some basic rules and requirements, like clean assembly environment, are loosely followed. One should note that good timegraph results from the dealers are absolutely not a guarantee of a good movement. If the results are good, one can assume that the movement may be good. On the other hand bad results require your action - whether servicing your watch, if you are testing one from your collection or declining QC, if you have received the results from a dealer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted March 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 I have pinned this but i will move it to movement info once every one has had a change to read this, put put a link in your signature for this! Thanks Andy, will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerthat Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Great post, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuys Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Par excellance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickydee Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Very helpful to a noob like me. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrgod Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Great post! I bought one of the ebay 200 USD "Multifunction timegrapher"s. It is a fun tool. Rather basic, but for a Noob like me, it does the job. Here you can se readings for an old, dirty Altair watch, Swiss 17J manual wind (Boliat & Flies), and a dirty "Sheffield", with a basic manual wind ETA-movement. If I remember correctly, I wound the watches fully before taken this reading, so the amplitude is rather low. When you have so large deviations, the scale does not adjust itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAHLER Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Thanks for sharing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseRoo Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Adeodatus... VERY HELPFUL. Thanks so very much. My (PAM177 Asian 6497), showed great at +004 and "0" Beat Error. Running on the wrist, it was about +15s/24h. Regulated it myself and is now, consistently for two months, at +2s/24h. I'm happy. But wanted to share/reinforce what you stated in the OP, that one must understand that the displayed QC data is taken on a bench. This just arrived in my email. Readings for my EXPII 42mm (Asian 2836). -001s/d. Beat Error 0.02. Curious as to how this will fare in real life. Any guesses? Again, thank you so very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseRoo Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Correction: the Explorer II 42mm in the post above is an Asian 2813 movement. Too late to edit the original post, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louky Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Great post!Thanks! Was always curious about rest of the info except beat error and pulses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpohl402 Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Great info, I knew most of it but still fun to read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaber Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Wow this is very helpfull post Thanks alot for this info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martijnp Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Thanks a lot! Last rep I bought I didn't understand the results but now I do. This topic will be next to the QC pic of my new rep haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemountain Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Very good info! Thanks a lot! I t will help me next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry J. Miller Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Thanks all. Good basic info. And Thanks for all of the follow-up information. Looks like the QC info is just a starting point for considering the watch. And always do service when its received... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batteryworld Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Thanks a lot. Very useful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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