newtown shootings

[TheRefinedSon]

Ooohhhh i would feel real safe sending my kids to a school with armed guards! NOT!!! I just wonder one thing, is it easy to get a gun leagely in usa? I know in Sweden its pretty hard to get it!!! I love guns, i dont own one but i go to shooting rang all the time and shoot with a friends gun!

 

Most high schools in the US have police officers on campus at least part time. Police are armed, they're among us and our children whenever we leave home. Why wouldn't we trust them at our schools with our children? In fact we already do. Its straightforward to get a gun legally in the US. Have a clean record, pass the background check go through the classes to get a permit in many states. It varies state to state, some states allow private party sales. BTW who is that in your sig pic? Che? He's a man that has fired a gun in anger, more than once. Cuban exiles in the US called him  "the butcher of La Cabaña".

[lloyd]

Not in Canada my friend.

 

And the constitution was written long ago. The right to carry guns was meant to protect the population from wildlife and hostile natives. Its stupid to keep harping on about the stupid constitution. Its outdated!!

No the second amendment was meant as a check on the federal government's power.

[dluddy]

Think it is more appropriate to discuss the lack of treatment for mental illness as every one of these perps showed signs of trouble and nobody picked up on it or did anything about it. It is more of a mental care issue than a gun issue. Guns don't kill innocent people Crazy fucks do Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mike on a bike]

Bingo!  "No the second amendment was meant as a check on the federal government's power."

With freedom come risks, decide how much risk you are willing to take and or freedom willing to risk.

 Even on such a horrific day as this do not be fearful, be vigilant  "Live free or die" either you mean it or you don't.

[Mike on a bike]

I will leave this discussion with some eloquent words from a man much wiser than me in regard to freedom & the price payed.

Executive Mansion,
Washington, Nov. 21, 1864.

Dear Madam,

I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle. I feel how weak and fruitless must be any word of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.

Yours, very sincerely and respectfully,

A. Lincoln

 

How do I correlate today with this statement, with power comes control with control comes lose of freedom. We still have power armed, we have little without. How many of our sons have been laid at the alter of freedom abroad, only to give it away at home at the behest of the mentally ill. For what else can you call a man who would commit such a heinous act. I grieve for those slain and there families but let us not dishonor them by laying down our arms in our grief but strengthen our resolve to live free such as there sacrifice is not in vain.

[whoever]

Think it is more appropriate to discuss the lack of treatment for mental illness as every one of these perps showed signs of trouble and nobody picked up on it or did anything about it. It is more of a mental care issue than a gun issue. Guns don't kill innocent people Crazy [censored]s do Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

do you want to take them into special camps in the woods? 

 

sorry for beeing this polemic, but this is absolutely wrong. You CANOT predict any mental disease in advance! Imagine, your kid has some bad day, he's yelling at school, he hits someone, because kids sometimes hit people......in your vision he'd be taken apart, into special treatment, always be watched, and then, believe me, he'd turn crazy. 

 

I've spent some time in Canada. I have six family members that hold dual citizenship. Yeah, I get it. Even though Canada really never had a gun violence problem they still effectively banned/restricted private ownership of firearms. Comparing Canada and the US is apples and oranges in my opinion. Shootings just make headlines. Not saying murder isn't a problem, just saying the act of murder is the choice of the person. A gun is an inanimate object. 

 

Leading causes of death in the US; 

 

• Heart disease: 599,413
• Cancer: 567,628
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
• Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
• Diabetes: 68,705
• Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
• Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
• Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,900

Lets put this in perspective roughly 13000 people were murdered with firearms in 2011 if I'm not mistaken. That is 4.7 per 100,000. The US murder rate is nothing to be proud of, roughly 75% of our homicides yearly are committed with firearms. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country   

 

If you look at the list on the link above you will see a number of countries that outright ban the private ownership of firearms, others that restrict their ownership much more than in the US. No, we are not a third world country. But a right to bear arms is not the cause of murders period. The desire to commit murder is not something that will be solved with legislation. The means to commit murder are only limited to a murderers twisted imagination. BTW I do have children in school. 

how the heck can you compare natural causes of death with shootings?

 

 

 

 

 

Now is the time Obama can make history....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheRefinedSon]

do you want to take them into special camps in the woods? 

 

sorry for beeing this polemic, but this is absolutely wrong. You CANOT predict any mental disease in advance! Imagine, your kid has some bad day, he's yelling at school, he hits someone, because kids sometimes hit people......in your vision he'd be taken apart, into special treatment, always be watched, and then, believe me, he'd turn crazy. 

 

how the heck can you compare natural causes of death with shootings?

 

 

 

 

 

Now is the time Obama can make history....

 

Thats my point, they can't be compared. Ten times more people die in accidents, all preventable. Three times as many people kill themselves. What is Obama going to do that hasn't already been done? He can't repeal the second ammendment lol! He's made all of the history he's going to make by being the first black president. Besides that he's a run of the mill politician.

[chronoluvvv]

as a dad of two this tragedy hits home a lot closer than i'd like

 

apparently this [censored]wad was [censored] @ his momma & took it out on her class

so all things being equal, it boils down to poor parenting

[KB]

I stole this off my daughters FB page....

 

 

to even discuss guns today borders on obscene.

 

Ken

[whoever]

I stole this off my daughters FB page....

to even discuss guns today borders on obscene.

Ken

Ken, thats exactly what politics and gun lobbyists try to make us say......! Saying that it must stay unpolitic, is the best way to politicise this thing. It's the way they want to make you stay in this status quo. It makes their game!

If he hadn't had a gun, he wouldn't have been able to shoot 27 people. And YES, it comes with the fact you can buy your gun in the department store, next to the grocery! I am

33 years old, I never had ANY of my friends or knowings who had a gun in their house, I never knew somebody who got shot.

Why?

Because arms are illegal to wear our in the open and because they are not sold in every store! And because there is NO reason to walk around with a gun, unless you are a police!

And to be clear, the rate of mentally ill people who kill is incredibly low! Around 2 to 3 percent!

At least in UE.

AMERICA HAS TO TALK ABOUT THIS AND DO SOMETHING JUST RIGHT NOW!

Ken, there is nothing obscene in discussing it and more importantly in preventing such a thing ever to happen again!

[KB]

Just for the record I'm an Aussie, we don't carry guns either.

 

 

Ken

[beano2004]

Having kids makes you look at life in a different way and I heard the news I was sick to my stomach. It got worse when I started watching the news and one of the news stations played a clip where a young girl said all I want is Christmas to be here and this is a bad dream. Words cannot describe how sorry I feel for all of those families as those children did nothing wrong to deserve this. Gun controls or not innocent children lost their lives, what ever means we have to take to protect our children I'm all in.

[Cromag]

I have dual citizenship. I lived most of my life in Canada, with the last 20 years in the USA. I don't own a gun, and I don't like guns. This tragedy may partially reflect liberal gun laws as the Finland massacre (http://j.mp/Xql6Ua'>http://j.mp/Xql6Ua), but Finland is no Superpower. Canadian comments here are typical of the Canadian perspective but they don't understand the gun issue in the USA. I used to think the same way. The 2nd Amendment is about trying to keep a sovereign 'democratic' nation. It's not about personal protection from animals or even other individual citizens. It's about defending the nation from tyranny from within. The notion that if a tyrannical government arose, which oppressed citizens rights, that her citizens would have in place the means with which to rise up and take back their country (how effective would that be in these times is unknown). Canadians, and many other progressive nations do not comprehend this notion to this extent. And after witnessing the U.S. political system first hand I can say I understand this desire much better. Watching U.S. politics from outside makes one just shake their head and think, 'stupid Americans' but that's not the simple case. It's way different down here my fellow Canucks. The challenges are far more difficult than you can imagine. It takes a village.

[txcollector]

This guy's mother had registered: semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster assault rifle, two pistols (Glock and a Sig Sauer) and two other weapons.

 

Explain to me a world where that's a NEED for a teacher leaving in CT??? And apparently she either ignored or had no idea on how to keep those guns safely away from a 20 yo kid (btw it's illegal for that kid to carry an assault rifle in CT so his mother should know better than to leave that thing unlocked).

 

I wonder how many mandatory certification/recertification courses she went thru to get all that unnecessary fire power. oh yeah, right, requiring that for her to buy those things would interfere with her 'rights'.

 

I think the right discussion in this country is not to repeal an amendment or ignore a gun discussion because it's politically charged. I think it's time to discuss what are the responsibilities and accountabilities required for someone to own a gun. It will never be 'get rid of guns' or 'let me buy any gun I want without supervision'. We need a serious and CONSISTENT set of rules here.

 

If you want to drive a car you need a certification that not only you're qualified but that you also understand the laws and regulations. If you violate those rules you can lose your license, go to jail or both. However when it comes to guns not even a discussion about that is allowed here. Absolutely twisted. 

[maxman]

I stole this off my daughters FB page....

 

 

to even discuss guns today borders on obscene.

 

Ken

Well said Ken....sounds like you have a very smart and loving daughter. I too will not debate the gun issue today. Thats for for another day and a different thread as far as I'm concerned. My prayers and tears go out to all those who have been affected by this horrific heart breaking tragedy.

 

Mike

[ldegeneve]

I'm going to talk about guns. It's not politicising it because it is at the heart of how these things happen in the first place.

 

I say this could have been prevented if the kids had received gun TRAINING and had guns themselves. I've been shooting pretty much since I could walk and I no doubt would have taken out the perp on the spot.

 

They could have protected themselves and our freedom. Now those goddamn libtards are gonna try and take that away and we will go in the wrong direction. That's all I have to say.

[TheRefinedSon]

Ken, thats exactly what politics and gun lobbyists try to make us say......! Saying that it must stay unpolitic, is the best way to politicise this thing. It's the way they want to make you stay in this status quo. It makes their game! If he hadn't had a gun, he wouldn't have been able to shoot 27 people. And YES, it comes with the fact you can buy your gun in the department store, next to the grocery! I am 33 years old, I never had ANY of my friends or knowings who had a gun in their house, I never knew somebody who got shot. Why? Because arms are illegal to wear our in the open and because they are not sold in every store! And because there is NO reason to walk around with a gun, unless you are a police! And to be clear, the rate of mentally ill people who kill is incredibly low! Around 2 to 3 percent! At least in UE. AMERICA HAS TO TALK ABOUT THIS AND DO SOMETHING JUST RIGHT NOW! Ken, there is nothing obscene in discussing it and more importantly in preventing such a thing ever to happen again!

Where are you from? Not America. Guns sold everywhere in every store. That's a ridiculous idea. They weren't even his guns. They were his moms. Look. He's nuts, you can't regulate craziness. It's a tragedy, as a father I'm appalled. I don't like the idea that we trust the police to have firearms but not our citizens. As you said the rate of mentally ill people that kill people is low, so this type of thing happening in a country with 300,000,000 people is low, yet it does happen. What's to be done? What would work, do we want to just make knee jerk reactions and hope for the best or can real tangible progress be made without trampling people's rights and freedom? That is an argument I'm willing to engage in.

[dluddy]

This guy's mother had registered: semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster assault rifle, two pistols (Glock and a Sig Sauer) and two other weapons.

 

 

Love to know why a teacher of young kids like that had that type of weapon to begin with and more importantly, whey they weren't more secured in her home.

Don't see a reason for semi-automatic weapons outside of law enforcement or military myself...

[TheRefinedSon]

This guy's mother had registered: semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster assault rifle, two pistols (Glock and a Sig Sauer) and two other weapons.   Explain to me a world where that's a NEED for a teacher leaving in CT??? And apparently she either ignored or had no idea on how to keep those guns safely away from a 20 yo kid (btw it's illegal for that kid to carry an assault rifle in CT so his mother should know better than to leave that thing unlocked).   I wonder how many mandatory certification/recertification courses she went thru to get all that unnecessary fire power. oh yeah, right, requiring that for her to buy those things would interfere with her 'rights'.   I think the right discussion in this country is not to repeal an amendment or ignore a gun discussion because it's politically charged. I think it's time to discuss what are the responsibilities and accountabilities required for someone to own a gun. It will never be 'get rid of guns' or 'let me buy any gun I want without supervision'. We need a serious and CONSISTENT set of rules here.   If you want to drive a car you need a certification that not only you're qualified but that you also understand the laws and regulations. If you violate those rules you can lose your license, go to jail or both. However when it comes to guns not even a discussion about that is allowed here. Absolutely twisted. 

I believe you only need to be 18 to buy a rifle in CT, handguns are 21. As far as certifications if its anything like CA, handgun training courses are required for a permit. But none of that really has anything to do with what happened. She should have had them under lock and key but even that isn't fool proof. Where there is a will there is a way. If someone wants to hurt people, they will. Laws, regulations and consequences be damned. This guy was willing to die, similar mentality to a suicide bomber. How do you stop those kinds of people?

[KB]

I say this could have been prevented if the kids had received gun TRAINING and had guns themselves.

 

ok this is just stupid, 5yo's are going to engage a 20yo determined to kill in a shoot out?

 

Any of my American friends willing to say they would send primary school kids to school with guns?

 

What part of kids needing guns to defend themselves speaks 'Freedom' to you?

 

Yes I'm angry, not because Americans can't lose their love affair for guns but because there are those who obviously care more for them than innocent lives.

 

 

Ken

[Nanuq]

The next day, a man in Beijing stabbed 22 children and an adult at their school. My prayers go out to those families too.

[KB]

Indeed Bob , this is why I hate gun debate at this time, it's the death on the innocents that is tragic regardless of how it happened.

 

 

Ken

[maxman]

The next day, a man in Beijing stabbed 22 children and an adult at their school. My prayers go out to those families too.

I guess we should ban knives  If a person want's to do harm to others....they will. You can gooogle "How to make a pipe bomb" Some sick [censored]s have driven thier cars Into groups of people and killed and crippled many. If a sick [censored] want's to hurt others there Is no way to stop It. Sometimes there are flags....but sometimes there Is not.

 

[censored] like this has been happening since the beginning of mankind.

 

Mike

[Ronin]

Philosoraptor postulates:

In all seriousness, my heart goes out to the family's, and RIP.

[whoever]

I'm going to talk about guns. It's not politicising it because it is at the heart of how these things happen in the first place.

 

I say this could have been prevented if the kids had received gun TRAINING and had guns themselves. I've been shooting pretty much since I could walk and I no doubt would have taken out the perp on the spot.

 

They could have protected themselves and our freedom. Now those goddamn libtards are gonna try and take that away and we will go in the wrong direction. That's all I have to say.

wow.....i'm speechless.......

 

please don't take it personaly, but this is the plane stupidest thing i've EVER heard