***movement tear down*** SA3135 Rolex clone

[Rolexman]

So here it is guys. I never thought there would be so much interest in this review. My post on the announcement of this review led to a lot of views and replies. That was very cool and flattering. I hope I can now live up to all the high expectations!

First off I would like to thank Angus from Puretime for sending me this movement to review. He is one of the few dealers that is really engaged with all the different fora. As a matter of fact he sent me an entire watch. To my best of knowledge this specific 3135 (short A3135-v2) copy variant is only available at Puretime. I will do a short review of the entire watch when I put it up for sale and will ad a link here. But for now I will concentrate on sèc the movement. So enough with this colloq advertisement, on to the review

To manage some expectations I would like to say that I did not have a genuine 3135 at hand to do a thorough 1-on-1 comparison nor did I have spare Rolex parts laying around. I’m blessed with a supplier that lives 10 car minutes away so I don’t need to keep an expensive stock of genuine spare parts. I serviced several gen 3135’s so my comments will be based on my experience. I will also use pictures of the genuine movement of the net to clarify certain things. This review is not an exact science meaning there is a possibility I will overlook certain aspects of the movement: mechanical and visual. Please feel free to ad them in the comments below.

I pondered a while about the best way to do this review. I know 10:10 watchmaker did a tear-down of the Yuki 3135 (short Y3135) and I know Watcher did a short photo review of it. With their courtesy I will be using some pictures from them in this review.

In my opinion this review would be the best of use if I would compare the A3135 to the Y3135 and the genuine 3135. A big challenge to do so. I will review the A3135 on a couple of aspects, and where possible I will involve the Y3135 and genuine 3135. I’m just making this up while I'm writing this ….

Index

1. Looks

2. Performance

3. Interchangeability

4.Summary

Looks

Comparing the Y335 and A3135 to the genuine we can see a lot of visual differences. I tried to highlight the main differences in the picture. I very well could have missed some but it gives you a good Idea.

Overall I would say the A3135 wins the ‘looks-competition’ hands down. Mainly because of the very gen-like engravements. Also the finish is way better than that of the Y3135. The bridges are nicely beveled, striping is nice and fine and the pearlage is ok. The balance apposed to the Y3135 has fake micro stella screws that ad to the overall gen-like appearance. More on that later. Both Y’s and A’s 3135 most noticeable difference with the genuine (apart from the engravements) is the balance. It’s not free sprung and therefore has two regulating arms instead of one. The winner of the looks competition: the A3135. One thing I did notice is that the serial# is missing. Angus posted a picture of an earlier prototype which did show the serial. I don’t know if the factory changed it’s mind or someone forgot to engrave it on this movement?

Performance

Well upon receiving the A3135 I tested it on the vibrograph. It showed very poor results as you can see on the picture below. With an amplitude of just 188 degees and +32 sec/fast a day this watch is not wearable in this condition. You are better off looking at the sun to know the correct time….

So the tear down begins. Know that all pictures were taken under a bright light.. which even would make Paris Hilton look like a pimple face .

First we need to remove the auto wind-bridge to let down the main spring. The thing I noticed immediately is not only a visual difference to the genuine but also a difference in design. The A3135 does not have an extra shock absorber for the escape wheel. Something the Y3135 does have. A very nice feature which ads to the sturdiness of the movement.

Also there was no oil on the jewel where auto winding intermediate gear is connected. A very critical spot as all the build up tension that is generated by the rotor is transferred to the main spring through that jewel. All rep movements come this way so nothing new....

Than for the balance. It is nowhere near the real deal when it comes to design and materials. A gen Rolex balance is free sprung. Hence the 1 arm. I won't go into details as this write up is already taking up enough of my time and energie but you can look it up on Google. Also the genuine Rolex balance has a Glucydur hair spring and Micro Stella regulating screws. This is just your typical rep balance with imitated non-functioning Micostella screws.

Thereby this balance had coils that were out of alignment. You can see how the space between the coils at 1 is smaller than at 2.

This was corrected so that all the coils are now evenly centered. Little blurry but you can see the difference. Also you can see how rough and unfinished the underside of the bridge is. But who cares. It does not affect anything.

Here you can see the barrel arbour jewel. The spot where the most tension is generated in the entire movement. Also bone dry…

Here you can see the train gear exposed. Also the Balance bridge regulator screws can be seen very clearly. Where the genuine balance bridge can be regulated by turning these screws (end shake adjustment) these are merely for show and non functional. They are one piece and force fitted into the base plate.

They did oil the jewels of the train gear, up and down side. Most of the time when we see oil in rep movements these are the spots that get oiled. The reason for this is because they are easy accessible and quick to oil.

Here you can see a dirty gear from the gear train..

So now let’s have a look at the dial side. Here we immediately see some major differences with the genuine. Not only in looks but also in function. I won’t go into the visual differences as they are irrelevant on this side of the movement and you can search for them yourself.

I do however want to mention the small jewel that is meant to guide the date wheel. It is present on the Y3135 but on the A3135 they used a metal version. We all know jewels minimize friction so a jewel is preferred. However I could not determine whether it really affects date-change reliability as everything works like it should. Than there is the keyless works. Where the Y3135 mimics the keyless works very good the A3135 is totally different. Not only in looks but also design. I have no idea why they did this. So forget spare parts. Genuine Rolex parts will definitely not fit.

Here you can see the dirty keyless works. The cut outs on the setting lever are really shallow (arrow). This makes it a little finicky to get the crown in date-set position as one easily pulls through the date position. You need to be really gentle, like with your girlfriend….does not affect anything other than you have to use some more 'finesse' when searching for the date set position.

When I came to the main spring I immediately knew what caused the low amplitude and bad performance. Besides little oil throughout the movement the barrel and main spring were very dirty….

And this is how it looks after cleaning, the proper amount of braking grease on the barrel wall and oil on coils and floor. But proper oiling is for another day…

To conclude I want to show you some pics of the reversing wheels. They are constructed completely different than the genuines. They can not be taken apart. The reversing wheels of the Y3135 are just like the genuine. At least in terms of construction. I can’t say anything about dimensions off course.

Interchangeability

Like I said before. I didn't have a genuine movement or parts laying around and I did not have the time or energy to go look up all the genuine dimensions. Therefor I will give you the dimensions of some critical parts of the A3135 and I will let you do you own investigation. What I do know a 100% sure is that the keyless works of the A3135 is not interchangeable with the genuine.

Diameter balance wheel= 9,99mm

Diameter date wheel= 21,75mm

Height main spring= 0,95mm

Diameter minute wheel= 1,02mm

Diameter hour wheel= 1,45mm

Diameter second hand post= 0,20mm

Diameter reversing wheel= 7,00mm

Diameter reversing wheel jewel hole= 0,25mm

Overall movement diameter= 28,4mm

Overall movement thickness (without rotor) 5,4mm

Here is also a scan of the dial feet position. You can use it in your own build to decide if a genuine dial will fit. IMO the feet are at the right position. The thickness of the dial feet is 0,92mm

(-actual size- with the dial feet circled in red)

The stem’s thickness is indeed increased just like Angus mentioned to 0.55mm. Screw thread is 0,85mm

Summary

The A3135 mimics the Rolex 3135 very well but when it comes to construction and design the Y3135 wins. This is purely based on the fact that the Y3135 copied all the design features like the keyless, date wheel guiding jewel, escape wheel shock absorber perfectly.

If it is looks you want than the A3135 wins. Both the Y3135 an A3135 have several tell signs but the A3135 just looks the most accurate. Off course mainly based on the nice engravements and overall finishing of the bridges. But neither will fool a watchmaker for a second off course.

Most movements assembled in China are incorrectly oiled and dirty. For the A3135 his is no different. After service it can be as reliable as an ETA or clone. The Y3135 for that matter is designed almost identical to it's genuine counterpart so I believe that if serviced correctly the Y3135 can even be as reliable and sturdy as a genuine 3135 ...but now I'm getting out on a limb. So basically both movements have the potential to be reliable when serviced even though it asks a lot of skill and time from the watch maker to correct all the problems.... If I would service these for a living I would definitely charge more for these 3135 clones than a regular ETA oR clone. The 3135 clones are simply more sensitive to oiling and proper adjustment of parts to get it performing up to par.

The A3135 from this review was fully cleaned and oiled according to the Rolex spec sheet. It is now running at an amplitude of 275 degrees and within COCS norms. This is the best this movement can do without replacing the main spring with a genuine.

So why buy the A3135? For me the only advantage of the A and Y3135 for that matter is the crown position, ability to take genuine hands and genuine like 'time setting'. As Rolex has closed case backs no one will ever see the movement. And although the A3135 is accurately decorated and better finished, it still doesn’t fool anybody. So if looks don’t count and only mechanics and movement design matters the Y3135 would be a better choice….If you don’t care about crown position, gen hands and all that stuff just go for an ETA or clone. They are a lot cheaper, parts are widely available and they are virtually bullet proof after proper service.

Food for thought

The balance click on the A3135 was milled wrong making it impossible to tighten the screw. A washer needed to be added. The exact same thing applied to the Y3135 as did 10:10 repair mention in his review. Two different movements with the exact same strange production flaw…. Different movements same sub contractors? Who knows?

Well that was all folks. Hope you liked it!

Mark

------------------------

Performance shot after service. Running and performing flawlessly like a gen

[jpz5142]

Wow, super post! Going to go back and re-read because its just that good!

Just curious, what did the mvmt perform like after the service?

[dutchguy2]

Thanks for all the work Mark. Very interesting to read and see.

[Guest zeleni kukuruz]

Mark Mark, what to say mate!!! Great post my friend you realy gave it your all this is post of 2013 for sure

[asciwhite]

Yes!

 

THANK YOU! This was very interesting.....

[racer80]

Thank you for the information and your expertise! Well done!

[ck5533]

Thank you very much for taking time & effort to tear down & write up a full review.

[Gaber]

It was really amazing review

I was waiting for this to learn lot of things about 3135 movements

Well done Mark

[HartDoc]

Awesome post !!! thanks You saved me a lot of $$$. I guess I have to wait a little longer to put my gen dial, hands, and insert into something a little more sturdy. 

 

Oh yeah thank for your time for doing this review

 

And props to Angus for putting his product out there not knowing the what the results would be.

[gmtlover]

Wow!

What a great review.. Guess my 16613 build has to wait a little longer.. Perhaps for a V3.

Thanks for all your efforts in writing this review! This gives all the knowledge we noobs need to make decisions! I will just continue gathering gen parts for my project and hope that in the not near future there will be a more reliable build.

Thanks again mate! You are a true asset here!

[Rolexman]

Awesome post !!! thanks You saved me a lot of $$$. I guess I have to wait a little longer to put my gen dial, hands, and insert into something a little more sturdy.

.

Thanks. The movement is sturdy and reliable but one needs to take a service in to account. This applies to almost all rep movements. This particular A3135 really had some issues that had to be looked after but it now runs flawless. You can't generalize based on one tear down. It's design is for 95% based on the real Rolex 3135 so in theory it can perform very well!

[KB]

so you going to enter it in the Watch Bitz competition?

 

Ken

[gmtlover]

Thanks. The movement is sturdy and reliable but one needs to take a service in to account. This applies to almost all rep movements. This particular A3135 really had some issues that had to be looked after but it now runs flawless. You can't generalize based on one tear down. It's design is for 95% based on the real Rolex 3135 so in theory it can perform very well!

But you would advice the Y3135?

That one does also take gen hands, DW and dial right?

[dbane883]

Great stuff. How easy was it to regulate the timing? Is it something a person with some basic skills could attempt?

[danielv2000]

Very informative. Thank you!

[sgtguk]

Good on ya M, definitely one for the Watch Bitz competition  

[red series 3]

Thank you... for saving me some money 

I appreciate your effort in putting this together.

[Rolexman]

Thanks for all the kind comments. I makes it all worth while.

[gmtlover]

I understand your point.

But I just want something to fit my gen hands and gen DW on. If I ever would buy one of these movements I would off course have it serviced.

But if you say well, even serviced these movt. aren't worth it, then I will wait for a V3 or perhaps even a V4. It is not about the looks of the movt. I just want to fit gen hands and gen DW on a somewhat reliable movt.

Edited January 13, 2013 by GMTlover

[Rolexman]

I understand your point.

But I just want something to fit my gen hands and gen DW on. If I ever would buy one of these movements I would off course have it serviced.

But if you say well, even serviced these movt. aren't worth it, then I will wait for a V3 or perhaps even a V4. It is not about the looks of the movt. I just want to fit gen hands and gen DW on a somewhat reliable movt.

If you read my post carefully I say that both movements can be reliable and sturdy if serviced correctly. In your case a serviced Y3135 would be a good option.

I edited my summary a bit so it becomes a little more clear for the reader. Thanks

[gmtlover]

Thanks Rolexman! This post should enter the contest and be pinned

[automatico]

"But if you say well, even serviced these movt. aren't worth it, then I will wait for a V3 or perhaps even a V4. It is not about the looks of the movt."

 

Service is usually the first step but the major problem with all A-clones is no parts.  V3/V4 etc may never come or not be much of an improvement.

       

" I just want to fit gen hands and gen DW on a somewhat reliable movt."

 

Genuine hands...

Eta 2824/36/2892 etc hand sizes are 150/90/24 (some models show .25 or .26 ss hand size).

Rlx 1530/70 etc 130/80/20

Rlx 3000/3035/3135 etc 140/95/22

 

You can probably mount 3000 series rlx hands on an Eta movement by broaching the hand holes depending on how thick the material is in the hour/min hands. 

Rlx 1530 series hands may be too small/thin to broach to Eta sizes. High quality tudor spec hands made for Eta movements are what nearly everyone uses.

If you want 'solid gold' rlx hands, remember that rlx used plated hands for many years....and gold hands are very fragile.

 

Date wheel overlays are an option or you could use a genuine rlx 3135 dw for an overlay on an Eta 2836/46 etc...providing you have enough room between the dw and dial.

 

Genuine Eta movements will usually be more reliable than A-clones. I would say 'always' but some may differ.

...in my experience it has always been always.  

[specialvat]

Great review, thank you.

[gmtlover]

"But if you say well, even serviced these movt. aren't worth it, then I will wait for a V3 or perhaps even a V4. It is not about the looks of the movt."

Service is usually the first step but the major problem with all A-clones is no parts. V3/V4 etc may never come or not be much of an improvement.

" I just want to fit gen hands and gen DW on a somewhat reliable movt."

Genuine hands...

Eta 2824/36/2892 etc hand sizes are 150/90/24 (some models show .25 or .26 ss hand size).

Rlx 1530/70 etc 130/80/20

Rlx 3000/3035/3135 etc 140/95/22

You can probably mount 3000 series rlx hands on an Eta movement by broaching the hand holes depending on how thick the material is in the hour/min hands.

Rlx 1530 series hands may be too small/thin to broach to Eta sizes. High quality tudor spec hands made for Eta movements are what nearly everyone uses.

If you want 'solid gold' rlx hands, remember that rlx used plated hands for many years....and gold hands are very fragile.

Date wheel overlays are an option or you could use a genuine rlx 3135 dw for an overlay on an Eta 2836/46 etc...providing you have enough room between the dw and dial.

Genuine Eta movements will usually be more reliable than A-clones. I would say 'always' but some may differ.

...in my experience it has always been always.

Thanks for your help!

You know the thing is I already have the gen DW and the gen gold hands. And I am in no way capable of modding the gen hands to fit an eta movt. I also do not want to mod the gen hands. Then I could as well just but eta hands!

The watch I want to build is a 16613 based on TC's 16610.

I will probably just try the y3135 with service.

Thanks again for your suggestions!

[watcher]

Great review and Thankyou for the time taken to do this!!

I was quite impressed with the yuki movement and would have another someday if the project required it.