London attacks

[KB]

sorry but your vision then is basically WW111

 

Ken

[Nanuq]

A history of the matter:

http://www.heritage.org/defense/report/victory-tripoli-lessons-the-war-terrorism

[Mike on a bike]

Read and learn......................

 

[KB]

I'm just waiting for someone to offer a solution short of another world war.

 

We have already had the 'Political Correctness' label thrown in, soon someone is bound to try the 'Liberal bleeding hearts' tag, but you know something...Left, right or center we all want this terrorism stopped by any means...that work.

 

There was 80 million civilian deaths in WW11 so no it is not a liberal bleeding heart that does not want to go there again.

 

Some points to remember there is 1.8 Billion Muslims in this world, nearly 50 countries that have a Muslim majority and one Muslim country that has Nuclear weapons and that is before we see which side communist countries will favour.

 

That is a war that will touch every corner of the earth, it is a war that will doom mankind, it is a war with no winners.

 

Make no mistake a terrorist is the scum of the earth no matter what colour their skin is or what religion he follows and yes we do need to meet it head on but we also need to remember that they are currently a motley crew that recruits kids to blow themselves up, don't let the political fear mongering turn the ugly dog into a fearful monster.

 

Ken

[HaydenM]

I'm just waiting for someone to offer a solution short of another world war.
 
We have already had the 'Political Correctness' label thrown in, soon someone is bound to try the 'Liberal bleeding hearts' tag, but you know something...Left, right or center we all want this terrorism stopped by any means...that work.

I think we all are and frankly I think you're wrong with both sides wanting this gone equally. The mass importation helps the western left dramatically. There is a reason that the labour local government and police force of Rotherham let 1400 English girls be raped and I assure you, it would not have happened under a right wing government and this is coming from a centrist.

Look throughout the world and it is left leaning governments that are importing this problem en masse. I'm not religious but I doubt we'd have this issue if we imported Jews or Middle Eastern Christians by the numbers.


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[altesporsche]

2 hours ago, Nanuq said:

A history of the matter:

http://www.heritage.org/defense/report/victory-tripoli-lessons-the-war-terrorism

 

 

That's actually a very good read !  Some very interesting history. 

[KB]

@HaydenM I am also a centralist and I personally think you should stay on topic because that stuff you just sprouted is rubbish.

 

This discussion can only remain if it stays civil, we have very strict rules against political threads but we mods are allowing some levity here.

 

So back on topic, please explain how you believe deportation will work.

 

Ken

[HaydenM]

@HaydenM I am also a centralist and I personally think you should stay on topic because that stuff you just sprouted is rubbish.
 
This discussion can only remain if it stays civil, we have very strict rules against political threads but we mods are allowing some levity here.
 
So back on topic, please explain how you believe deportation will work.
 
Ken

How is Rotherham rubbish? It's a story that broke internationally and is pertinent to the discussion. The current PM herself called it a "dereliction of duty" due to their "institutional political correctness".

To say that this is off topic to be frank is to simply not want to see it in a topic that it is certainly relevant to.


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[KB]

How does that even come close to the topic we have here?

 

Of course your sprouting rubbish when you are throwing up stories like that in a thread about about terrorism in London, it is not even your thread so it is a complete hijack.

 

It would be akin to me discussing all the pedophiles within the Christian clergy...it is not part of this discussion, so take some advice and stay on topic.

 

Ken

[HaydenM]

2 minutes ago, KB said:

How does that even come close to the topic we have here?

 

Of course your sprouting rubbish when you are throwing up stories like that in a thread about about terrorism in London, it is not even your thread so it is a complete hijack.

 

It would be akin to me discussing all the pedophiles within the Christian clergy...it is not part of this discussion, so take some advice and stay on topic.

 

Ken

Because the topic was the political correctness stifles the ability of those who must take action to protect the populous from doing so, you denies this to be the case saying that everybody is acting in the best of the greater populous which the rotherham case proved wrong as the local government and police forces turned a blind eye to the barbaric things happening under their noses so that they wouldn't be called racist and so that they would maintain predominately left wing muslim voters in a labour seat. It is completely and utterly on the topic that this conversation has generated. 
If radical catholic terrorists had just attacked London and I had said that the greater church wanted to stop problems within the church just as much as anybody else you would be right to call me out on the protection of paedophile priest as I call out the protection of muslim child rapists by a left wing government securing votes.

[jmb]

Prayers going out from Texas to our Cousins across The Pond.  I can't fathom living through something like that and it only reinforces how grateful I feel for living in a country where I have the right to defend myself from soulless thugs and cretins.

[KB]

"Because the topic was the political correctness stifles the ability of those who must take action to protect the populous from doing so"

 

No it wasn't, at least have the courtesy to read the opening post.

 

Again back on topic...

 

Yes thoughts and prayers to all those affected by this atrocious evil event from Australia too.

 

Ken

[Mike on a bike]

Well despite the original topic I think it is fair to explore causes,remedies and the subsequent underlying reasons this has happen. The "PC" media and the cultural inability to tolerate others calls/reactions to things being one of the biggest reasons we do in fact have this problem. Differences in views must be explored not stifled in order to reach consensus from which action can be taken.

 

PS I think you all have read my post in this arena over the years to know HaydenM's and my opinions are very closely aligned ,this does not mean I will stop dissent to it .

 

 

 

[HaydenM]

"Because the topic was the political correctness stifles the ability of those who must take action to protect the populous from doing so"
 
No it wasn't, at least have the courtesy to read the opening post.
 
Again back on topic...
 
Yes thoughts and prayers to all those affected by this atrocious evil event from Australia too.
 
Ken

The origin of the conversation does not change what the conversation develops into. Of course the victims and loved ones of those affected are in our thoughts, last night a terrorist attack was committed in my city by an Islamic jihadi that should have long been kicked out.
I don't think it's just to shut down anything you seem to not want mentioned such as Rotherham by simply deeming it rubbish. It's a dodgy tactic.


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[horologist]

My thoughts also go out to our victims and their loved ones during this horrid times of grief.  Life is just so fragile and one never truly knows when that morrning or evening will be our last one with our loved ones.  I speak on the anniversary of my father's passing exactly 3 years ago today.

 

One event that I remember at my mother's funeral some 12 years ago when I noticed something out of the ordinary just as we were leaving the sermon and were making our way into the hall next door for the wake,  It wasn't about who was there nor how many people had attended as I did not know half of those that had attended nor would I ever recognise them.  It then struck me that  I saw a gentleman wearing his kippah, another was a Sikhu Indian and also a Syrian man that I knew was a Muslim that seldom came to have his clothes altered at my mother's Seamstress boutique.  I found this event very sorrowful but at the same time very peaceful and also quite bliss.  At the wake I saw many of them mingle with each other and saw both the Jewish gentleman and the Syrian gentleman speak with 3 other people while holding their cup of tea/coffee.  I asked myself why could this not be in every corner of the globe??  When my mother was single, she had been a volunteer at a church orphange having always had a passion for children where she had also been an au paer both in paid and unpaid work.. I recall as a teenager many years ago, where some people I hardly knew would stop to say hello to mum and it was only after I had asked my mother who they were that I knew the correlation,  My mother never saw this event but I damm wished she did because she was all about peace and indoctrinated into her children the same. 

 

Bros, please lets cherrish and respect one another as when one thinks about how long we live in comparison to how long we remain dead, we can just about say we never lived!!!

[Sogeha]

I read today that 130 Imans have refused to bury the terrorists. One can argue Islamic or any other theology all day, but those gentlemen have earned my respect for their stance. Also the surgeon most involved in treating the wounded after the Manchester attack has spoke on the BBC website, his interview is well worth a listen.

[HaydenM]

I read today that 130 Imans have refused to bury the terrorists. One can argue Islamic or any other theology all day, but those gentlemen have earned my respect for their stance. Also the surgeon most involved in treating the wounded after the Manchester attack has spoke on the BBC website, his interview is well worth a listen.

Absolutely those Imams have my respect to the point that anybody who wouldn't bury a terrorist with honour does. I truly hope that they are progressive and relatively nominal Muslims fighting for reformation, unfortunately many mosques are rather adept at PR and will say one thing and do another behind closed doors.


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[Sogeha]

Indeed my friend, but the same is true of many individuals and most organisations. We live in a World of spin doctors. It is cause for some celebration that they feel unable to public side with the terrorists, not withstanding any possibility of hidden sympathy.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40172933/khuram-butt-s-uncle-condemns-london-bridge-attack

[HaydenM]

There's definitely some good going on at the moment. Though I still remain skeptical. I read elsewhere of 31 scholars deeming suicide attacks haram through fatwa. Though from a literature point of view I cannot see where they come to that conclusion I'm more than happy with such a declaration.


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[Sogeha]

We have both a reasonable knowledge of Islamic texts, but let us not focus on the strict interpretation, instead I think we should understand that the world religions were founded in a past more brutal than the way we would wish to live today. In the Garden of Gethsemane the Disciples were tooled up, something many Christians cheerfully skip over. It doesn't sit well with our modern interpretation of Christianity that these man were not hippies full of love for all mankind or that they were carrying arms in breach of the law. Christianity, Judaism and even Buddhism according to direct scriptural reference advocates and even insists on things we would utterly condemn today. My father is an Orthodox Priest, but I know he would be perfectly happy to be treated by a Jewish doctor, even though he is absolutely forbidden to do so. I also know that his bishop in fact has been treated by a Jewish doctor. Islam I grant is rather more black and white than many religions in scripture, but when and where men decide to "overlook" certain scripture in favour of living as more enlightened members of the modern world community we should do what we can to welcome and encourage it. Such is the only pragmatic course of action.

[HaydenM]

We have both a reasonable knowledge of Islamic texts, but let us not focus on the strict interpretation, instead I think we should understand that the world religions were founded in a past more brutal than the way we would wish to live today. In the Garden of Gethsemane the Disciples were tooled up, something many Christians cheerfully skip over. It doesn't sit well with our modern interpretation of Christianity that these man were not hippies full of love for all mankind or that they were carrying arms in breach of the law. Christianity, Judaism and even Buddhism according to direct scriptural reference advocates and even insists on things we would utterly condemn today. My father is an Orthodox Priest, but I know he would be perfectly happy to be treated by a Jewish doctor, even though he is absolutely forbidden to do so. I also know that his bishop in fact has been treated by a Jewish doctor. Islam i grant is rather more black and white than many religions in scripture, but when and where men decide to "overlook" certain scripture in favour of living as more enlightened members of the modern world community we should do what we can to welcome and encourage it. Such is the only pragmatic course of action.

The sheer difference really just comes down to the Shahada. For as long as it exists reformation is at best incredibly illogical. It would be doublethink to believe that the Quran is the literal word of a perfect Allah through the messenger while also thinking that it is wrong to beat a disobedient wife for example. I am very happy that most Muslims disregard such a verse, but the existence of the shahada and reformation are very uncomfortable bedfellows.
And don't worry, I'm no stranger to ripping into the weirder scripture of the bible or Torah, the bible is just lucky that the multiple human writers thing gives wiggle room.


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[Sogeha]

My friend, I could talk with you a long time on this subject to our mutual pleasure, but I will refrain. I will say that it is a chicken and egg situation. The wiggle room in the bible came slowly as more and more enlightened men chose to find that room rather than burn hieratics. Perhaps Islam will undergo such a process, perhaps it will have to.

[HaydenM]

My friend, I could talk with you a long time on this subject to our mutual pleasure, but I will refrain. I will say that it is a chicken and egg situation. The wiggle room in the bible came slowly as more and more enlightened men chose to find that room rather than burn hieratics. Perhaps Islam will undergo such a process, perhaps it will have to.

I surely hope so. If it wishes to survive then it must. Otherwise the [censored] will hit the proverbial fan.


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[tyrantblade]

I hate terrorists more than anything else, such petty differences (especially between the 2 different types of Muslims) and such extreme means to "solve" them.

 

Something drastic has to happen to cause the right kind of change and preferably some sort of real solution so the violence and deaths can end.

[Mike on a bike]

And so it begins I was afraid of this:  http://abc7ny.com/news/terrorism-suspected-after-vehicle-strikes-pedestrians-near-london-mosque/2117195/

 

I had beseeched Muslims of good character to police their own now the victims of their brethren will use terrorism in kind.