I have the money now but can't find a gen worth buying

[krim]

Hi all, have been collecting reps for about 10 years now. 

I'm in a position to buy a gen, my budget is 25k USD approx, I can't wear gold watches due to my religious beliefs.

I love the AP ROO but the exorbitant services prices put me off, and I have a rep AP diver & Ap diver carbon rep (just died a year ago after 5 years of good service). 

I find most Rolex steel models are being worn for purely 'image' and 'lifestyle' associated with 'bling' so buying a hulk or batgirl has become offputting to me, I don't even want to buy the rep. Daytona is still has a little classiness left (although the hype is ruining that too) so I could buy a gen panda but the replica is so similar for so little money and when I travel I can take it with me (I travel a fair amount). 

Patek nautilus would be lovely but is out of my price range and people often want to see my watch up close so the movement in the rep would give it away, aquanaught at 30k usd, I wouldn't pay 30k for it. Gold daytona, yachtmaster patek world timer would have been good shoutse but due to religious beliefs they are out. 

 

Other watches I've looked at in gen around 10k+ on the used market still take a massive hit when you try to sell and if I'm spending that much I would want it to retain value. If I were to buy gen, I would Ideally something with a well decorated movement and sapphire caseback. Also without silly servicing costs. F P journe for example I have heard nightmares about the servicing time period and price else if there was something non gold/platinum from them I would be onboard. 

 

Other reps I like are AP bumblebee, bronze big pilot, blancpain 50 fathoms. What's the point of buying gen on those will just end up costing tons of money when I can have the same thing without the risk of walking around in an expensive watch and saving the money for other things

I have Big Pilot and top gun, Ap diver steel and carbon. Pam 253, PP aquanaught (can't wear much as people will see from the caseback it's a rep). I have others which I don't wearat all (frank muller jumping hour, Rolex DSSD, piaget upstream, omega seamaster with orange bezel. 

 

 

 

[ceejay]

Grand Seiko. Heritage Collection.

[Nanuq]

Buy some heritage, get a vintage Rolex and let it appreciate for a few years.  If you fall out of love with it, sell for more than you paid and look again.

 

 

[tomhorn]

+1 Nanuq.

 

If you are looking to retain value, a vintage Rolex that you like is the best answer. Unfortunately, there just aren't that many watches that hold their value (or increase) like a vintage Rolex.

 

Or buy something that doesn't cost nearly that much so you don't have to worry about it, and use the rest of the money for something else. Based on some of your description above, something like an Omega 3573.50 would fit the bill. You can get it with the Mitsukoshi panda dial, and it has an exhibition caseback with an interesting movement. That dial is rare, and you should be able to find one for under $5,000.

[kernow]

Vintage Speedmaster for me. Something like an Ed White, or any Speedy with straight lugs.

[cornerstone]

Do you have a grail watch?  Something that speaks to you in a way that's beyond the rational?

 

Or a favoured rep that needs to be the real deal?

 

 

 

 

 

[Dinkis]

Find a Speedie in your birth year and a Rolex in your birth year. Would be fun to search for them


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Save the rest of your money. And when the market dips again in Nov then buy some good stocks at a low price. I’m just sayin...


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[sputim]

Simple, get a 16520 preferrably with tritium dial and wait a few years and have it appreciate in value. Almost impossible to rep and relatively rare compared to the later models. Oh and a beautiful timeless design on top!


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[jimcon11]

I can't imagine being in your position, but if I had 25k to freely spend on watches I would probably hunt down a half dozen or so vintage designs I've always been drawn to and be satisfied with having an awesome collection. It's all about personal taste and appreciation of the art.  

[krim]

On 7/21/2020 at 4:33 PM, ceejay said:

Grand Seiko. Heritage Collection.

Love Grand Seiko for their history, their engineering (I'm an engineer by training and a high end wholesale jeweller which is why I can get away with the reps as nobody would think to question). 

However I find the design too conservative for my personal liking

On 7/21/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nanuq said:

Buy some heritage, get a vintage Rolex and let it appreciate for a few years.  If you fall out of love with it, sell for more than you paid and look again.

 

 

great idea! I shall go have a hunt around in the shops and try them on wrist to see if I can find anything that suits my taste. 

On 7/21/2020 at 8:10 PM, kernow said:

Vintage Speedmaster for me. Something like an Ed White, or any Speedy with straight lugs.

Love the speedy, great design and great heritage. If I were to ever become a collector I would certainly have one in there.

I love the Rolex daytona panda and it would get a lot more street cred when I'm doing business. Now to go rep and save 20,000$ or gen 

[krim]

On 7/22/2020 at 5:02 AM, cornerstone said:

Do you have a grail watch?  Something that speaks to you in a way that's beyond the rational?

 

Or a favoured rep that needs to be the real deal?

 

 

 

 

 

Thankyou for this thought provoking question. This is really going to help me to delve deeper.

 

I like things that are a LITTLE bit edgy and colourful (RM looks too messy). FP journe for an elegant watch (servicing costs are out of my league), MB&F for innovation (not a brand for those whom don't want to loose money), De Bethune (beautiful but out of my price range), artisans de geneve (simply stunning but unless I marry an Arabian princess highly unlikely I'll see that money in my lifetime).

 

For design and sportiness I love the AP ROO. There is one for sale and quite reasonable but without box and papers but my watch dealer (partner, I buy and sell used watches with him but mostly <10k) friend said it's still not low enough for a watch without box and papers. 

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/audemarspiguet/royal-oak-offshore-chronograph--id14490688.htm

 

Like you said I should not overly focus on being totally rational and tolerate some loss in running costs and an acceptable loss in value of the watch.

On balance it seems like I just need to wait out for the right AP ROO

On 7/22/2020 at 10:09 PM, jimcon11 said:

I can't imagine being in your position, but if I had 25k to freely spend on watches I would probably hunt down a half dozen or so vintage designs I've always been drawn to and be satisfied with having an awesome collection. It's all about personal taste and appreciation of the art.  

Yes indeed, I think I just need to come to digest now that I have worked up to this level where I can spend this money without thinking too hard about retained value and servicing. 

Car wise I have a Porsche and a Ferrari, so I'm used to high bills. Just for some reason on the watches front the reps are such ridiculous value I find myself struggling to justify a real watch

On 7/22/2020 at 4:05 PM, Dinkis said:

Find a Speedie in your birth year and a Rolex in your birth year. Would be fun to search for them


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Save the rest of your money. And when the market dips again in Nov then buy some good stocks at a low price. I’m just sayin...


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Great idea, I shall have a look around for one or maybe I'll treat myself to a new rep. and enjoy that til the market dips and keep searching into what I would really want to purchase. 

[tech]

Have you considered the new VC Overseas?  

 

https://www.chrono24.com/vacheronconstantin/overseas-chronograph-5500v110a-b148--id15064669.htm?SETLANG=en_US&SETCURR=USD

 

Fabulous movement, quick change strap system, Geneva seal, and just oozes sexy.

 

My sentiments are the same as yours with the Daytona and Rolex in general.  APs are overpriced on purpose.  Former AP boss said so.   This Vacheron would be my choice.

 

I handled the gen VC recently and as a previous WG Panda Daytona owner, its no contest.  Overseas please

 

 

I dont care for plastic vintage rollies.  They feel cheap, flimsy on the wrist.  I would never buy one.  If one was handed down for sentimental reasons, then I would consider.

[krim]

On 7/29/2020 at 3:25 PM, tech said:

Have you considered the new VC Overseas?  

 

https://www.chrono24.com/vacheronconstantin/overseas-chronograph-5500v110a-b148--id15064669.htm?SETLANG=en_US&SETCURR=USD

 

Fabulous movement, quick change strap system, Geneva seal, and just oozes sexy.

 

My sentiments are the same as yours with the Daytona and Rolex in general.  APs are overpriced on purpose.  Former AP boss said so.   This Vacheron would be my choice.

 

I handled the gen VC recently and as a previous WG Panda Daytona owner, its no contest.  Overseas please

 

 

I dont care for plastic vintage rollies.  They feel cheap, flimsy on the wrist.  I would never buy one.  If one was handed down for sentimental reasons, then I would consider.

 

the VC overseas is a lovely model, I think it would be more for elegant wear though. I'm mostly in very relaxed environments so I don't think it would get much wrist time. If I were working in an office where wearing a suit and I like to dress sporty so instead of a more formal watch I would get one of these where an AP ROO would be too sports even for me to pull off.

Great idea though, and definately I would recommend others to go for this model if it would be able to get the wrist time out of it

 

 

[automatico]

If I had $25k to spend...

 

Something low key and simple that will hold its value.  

Wind up steel rolex 6694 or 1603 auto DJ in fine condition, no corrosion. 

Maybe go so far as to splurge on a solid gold 1960s/1970s water resistant classic watch of some sort on a strap (after gold prices drop). 

Example...I paid $300 for a like new 18k Gübelin 36mm automatic in a round WR screw back case in 2012.  Similar watch today could probably be found for $1500 or $1800.  A timeless (affordable) classic.  

Here is one for $1700:  eBay item number   233507608781

 

Or an original 'Bullitt' Benrus...

 

Save the remaining $22k.  

Most $25k watches drop 50% in a year or two. 

 

Today I am celebrating high gold prices by wearing a 14k Mickey Mouse project watch with 14k buckle made out of a 1953 round case Bulova.

Total cost about $200...bought the Bulova in the late 1990s when gold was under $300 troz and a friend cast the buckle from scrap.

 

https://onlygold.com/gold-prices/historical-gold-prices/

[krim]

9 minutes ago, automatico said:

If I had $25k to spend...

 

Something low key and simple that will hold its value.  

Wind up steel rolex 6694 or 1603 auto DJ in fine condition, no corrosion. 

Maybe go so far as to splurge on a solid gold 1960s/1970s water resistant classic watch of some sort on a strap (after gold prices drop). 

Example...I paid $300 for a like new 18k Gübelin 36mm automatic in a round WR screw back case in 2012.  Similar watch today could probably be found for $1500 or $1800.  A timeless (affordable) classic.  

 

Or an original 'Bullitt' Benrus...

 

Save the remaining $22k.  

Most $25k watches drop 50% in a year or two. 

 

Today I am celebrating high gold prices by wearing a 14k Mickey Mouse project watch with 14k buckle made out of a 1953 round case Bulova.

Total cost about $200...bought the Bulova in the late 1990s when gold was under $300 troz and a friend cast the buckle from scrap.

 

https://onlygold.com/gold-prices/historical-gold-prices/

and what watch would you buy with the remaining 22k if you hadn't got anything else to spend it on and everything else in life is sorted by a fair margin

[automatico]

"and what watch would you buy with the remaining 22k if you hadn't got anything else to spend it on"

I have enough watches.  Maybe wait and see how things go.

 

"...and everything else in life is sorted by a fair margin"

Life is full of surprises.  Believe me, I know. 

I did not retire at 46 by buying $25k depreciating assets.  

 

[Nanuq]

If I had $22k and no place to send it, I'd send it here.  

 

https://store.rafikifoundation.org/genocidesurvivors.html

 

Buy out the store.  The craftsmanship is amazing and the proceeds go straight back to the villages.

 

[krim]

2 hours ago, automatico said:

"and what watch would you buy with the remaining 22k if you hadn't got anything else to spend it on"

I have enough watches.  Maybe wait and see how things go.

 

"...and everything else in life is sorted by a fair margin"

Life is full of surprises.  Believe me, I know. 

I did not retire at 46 by buying $25k depreciating assets.  

 

Likewise, I'm 10 years younger than you. 

This is why I'm leaning towards the replicas. Think that's it then Rolex Daytona arf v2 and live the replica lifestyle.

Let some other mug fall into the horological trap

[krim]

3 hours ago, Nanuq said:

If I had $22k and no place to send it, I'd send it here.  

 

https://store.rafikifoundation.org/genocidesurvivors.html

 

Buy out the store.  The craftsmanship is amazing and the proceeds go straight back to the villages.

 

Lovely product and good cause. Thanks for sharing, hope a few of us will buy and help them out 

 

[tech]

@krim

 

The VC bracelet is removal and goes on a rubber making it very sporty and versatile.  I think it would be just fine in the office environment.  Leave the bracelet in the box and only pull it out for special occasions.

 

 

Older version on both rubber and gator.  The VC Overseas is a phenom and will give you lots of "street cred" with the WIS/cognoscenti but still fly under the radar amongst the non-otaku types

 

 

Newer brown version...

 

 

 

[krim]

2 hours ago, tech said:

@krim

 

The VC bracelet is removal and goes on a rubber making it very sporty and versatile.  I think it would be just fine in the office environment.  Leave the bracelet in the box and only pull it out for special occasions.

 

 

Older version on both rubber and gator.  The VC Overseas is a phenom and will give you lots of "street cred" with the WIS/cognoscenti but still fly under the radar amongst the non-otaku types

 

 

Newer brown version...

 

 

 

It's very elegant, maybe because my father had one I feel that it's more for an older gentleman, think when combined with my very modern street style clothing it would be out of place

[tech]

Well, if you're rockin Off-White and Yeezy then maybe the VC is too dressy then...

[krim]

9 hours ago, tech said:

Well, if you're rockin Off-White and Yeezy then maybe the VC is too dressy then...

Lol I would not be seen dead wearing off white or a Yeezy. Those whom do would have to wear a rainbow rose gold Rolex. 

 

I just don't wear much formal anymore as I used to before with suit and tie, at the most I'll wear a blazer with an open buttoned formal shirt. More of an  Italian smart sporty look, and other times Italian semi smart when going to work. 

 

[Muttsta]

Ulysse Nardin Freak X

[krim]

37 minutes ago, Muttsta said:

Ulysse Nardin Freak X

Great idea and great watch, I find the design very interesting and in real life it looks a lot better than pictures I found. 

I think that would be something to put in a rotation and probably be worn a few days a month as it's quite striking watch. After I buy something now or if I choose to buy a rep for my primary watch then that would be a consideration for the next piece in the collection.