Need someone to build a Tudor 9401/0 Submariner franken!

[AP773]

I recently got an itch for a Tuber Sub so now I'm looking for someone who can build one with mostly genuine parts (where possible). Any recommendations?

 

Thanks!

[Nanuq]

Welcome aboard.  My advice is to watch the sales threads here.  Lots of people built some really nice Tudors, they were really hot items a few years back and I haven't seen many of them come up for sale since then.

 

How bad is your itch?  It might be an expensive scratch.  Fr example my build uses a Phong case set ($800), gen 702 crown and tube ($350) gen Superdome Tropic 39 crystal ($300), gen dial and hands ($450) gen MkIII slate grey insert ($1,000) , gen ETA 7846 movement ($250) and Mary's 7836 band ($50).  Total not including labor, fitting, finishing and shipping was about $3200 and that's for a "good" build, not "insanely good".  Behold the Frosty Flake.

 

 

 

 

[alligoat]

Speaking of Phong, he's selling 9401s in blue dial or black dial for $1550.

9401 (jewelryandwatch.com)

You also might be able to get a 9401 from Trustytime/Andrew for peanuts, but it wouldn't be a nice as Phong's probably

TUD029B - SnowFlake 9401 Submariner SS/SS Black JKF Asia 2836 [TUD029B] - $238.00 : Trusty Time Watch, Your Trusty Watch Shop

[hugop]

Welcome aboard.  My advice is to watch the sales threads here.  Lots of people built some really nice Tudors, they were really hot items a few years back and I haven't seen many of them come up for sale since then.
 
How bad is your itch?  It might be an expensive scratch.  Fr example my build uses a Phong case set ($800), gen 702 crown and tube ($350) gen Superdome Tropic 39 crystal ($300), gen dial and hands ($450) gen MkIII slate grey insert ($1,000) , gen ETA 7846 movement ($250) and Mary's 7836 band ($50).  Total not including labor, fitting, finishing and shipping was about $3200 and that's for a "good" build, not "insanely good".  Behold the Frosty Flake.
 
 

 
 

[mention=32]Nanuq[/mention]
Brother have you checked the value on that gen dial and hands lately? I believe I would withdraw that offer for the time being. Dials alone are bringing 2-3k and are impossible to find! No offense to the buyer meant...

Maybe that wasn't an offer but there are many of us that would give you your money back.

I would feel bad about it though. (For a minute)?

[Nanuq]

Yikes! Thanks, I had no idea the prices have climbed that much.

My new price.... one MILLION dollars.

[hugop]

Yikes! Thanks, I had no idea the prices have climbed that much.

My new price.... one MILLION dollars.

That’s better….

I will still take it for the first price….

[AP773]

Ah, sounds pricey indeed. The two main things I'd prefer to be gen are the dial and movement, or at least a correct movement, Tudor or not. Any idea where I can start my search for a genuine dial? @hugop Who built the Frosty Flake? Looks great!

[hugop]

They come up (but not that often) on eBay and the gen forums. There is a 9411 dial on eBay right now for $2499. Gen spec movement would not be bad to find for it as it uses an ETA 2784.

[alligoat]

movement for the 9401 is an eta 2776- circa mid 70s and on.

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: ETA 2776 (ranfft.de)

Good luck finding one- you just need to check out all of the old Swiss watchmakers- Sandoz, Tugaris, Octo, Titus, Edox, Zodiac, Dodane, Omega, etc. etc...

[AP773]

So far I’ve got a decent build budgeted at $3,015 or so. Not cheap! But in regards to the case, is the phong case the best out there?? Looking for a 1:1 gen spec case. 

[alligoat]

Ouch! That's way too much for a Swiss eta 2824- $2-300 max. You can buy the whole watch from Phong complete with movement for $1550- unless he gives me a better deal since I've bought from him in the past. Then you can swap out an MQ dial and hands if you're so inclined. But Phong and MQ are really only nice replica stuff. Buying a gen dial and hands is ridiculous these days- you're 10 years too late to this hobby! Check with Nanuq about the Phong case since he has one.  

[AP773]

Ouch! That's way too much for a Swiss eta 2824- $2-300 max. You can buy the whole watch from Phong complete with movement for $1550- unless he gives me a better deal since I've bought from him in the past. Then you can swap out an MQ dial and hands if you're so inclined. But Phong and MQ are really only nice replica stuff. Buying a gen dial and hands is ridiculous these days- you're 10 years too late to this hobby! Check with Nanuq about the Phong case since he has one.  

Yeah I saw new Swiss eta 2824-2’s going for $200-300, in the breakdown I’m citing a genuine Tudor branded movement, which I’m not entirely sold on since they’ll all serve the same purpose and perform just as well I assume. Maybe I’ll go with the less expensive option at least for now. Genuine dials are ridiculously expensive, I’ve decided I’ll go for the rep dial that has the most accurate lettering. Any idea which dial is closest? Also, if I’m understanding correctly, Phong is selling his case alone for $1,450 but a whole watch for $1,550??


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[Sogeha]

None of these cases are 1:1, there are tells, tells that won’t in any way stop you enjoying your watch, but which are there nevertheless. It will look absolutely the part on the wrist, but a really knowledgable expert will be able to tell it from genuine, and in my opinion that is how it should be, this hobby is about the pleasure of building more affordable versions of classic vintage watches for one’s own pleasure, which seems to be your desire, if cases were ever completely indistinguishable, it would just encourage scammers and fraudsters

 

Owning both Phong and other, cheaper Vietnamese cases, I’m not convinced Phong is worth over twice as much YMMV

 

Try Arsla5 on eBay for ETA movements, he is very genuine 

[automatico]

AP773:

"...I saw new Swiss eta 2824-2’s going for $200-300, in the breakdown I’m citing a genuine Tudor branded movement, which I’m not entirely sold on since they’ll all serve the same purpose and perform just as well I assume."

 

After you find a suitable movement, maybe put a tudor signed rotor on the movement.  That will get you a step closer for not much $$.

rafflesdials has the rotors for $25 USD.

 

Sogeha:

"Try Arsla5 on eBay for ETA movements, he is very genuine." 

 

Good advice!

Here is another seller with new genuine ETA 2824-2 watch movements, 25 Jewels Swiss Made on eBay for $160 plus $22 for delivery with 100% feedback:

 

eBay item number:  402979545461

 

The main difference looking at a regular ETA 2824-2 and a tudor 2824-2 is the tudor movement is engine turned for decoration.  One etaclone brand that made a lot of engine turned 2824 clone movements is Seagull and they are Ok (for a while anyway) if they are properly cleaned and oiled.  Finding one with ETA markings should not be too hard, then all you need is the tudor signed rotor.

STP and Sellita offer engine turned 2824 clones, they are swiss made and higher quality than china etaclones but will have no ETA markings.

 

ETA 2824-2 Clones Watch Movement | Caliber Corner

 

[kidcreole]

Did you see these gen 2824 movements here?

 

[SSTEEL]

If you source all the parts needed for your project, I can build it for you.

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[hologramet]

On 8/21/2021 at 5:53 PM, automatico said:

The main difference looking at a regular ETA 2824-2 and a tudor 2824-2 is the tudor movement is engine turned for decoration.  One etaclone brand that made a lot of engine turned 2824 clone movements is Seagull and they are Ok (for a while anyway) if they are properly cleaned and oiled.  Finding one with ETA markings should not be too hard, then all you need is the tudor signed rotor.

STP and Sellita offer engine turned 2824 clones, they are swiss made and higher quality than china etaclones but will have no ETA markings.

 

ETA 2824-2 Clones Watch Movement | Caliber Corner

 

automatico .. that isn’t 100% correct.. They have KIF shocks, and are Top grade regarding the rest; Glucydur spring etc..Don’t remember if they are/used to be chrono certified. Also.. what’s the point of it being engine turned if  the bridge isn’t engraved.

[Sogeha]

Kif shock protection does nothing until you drop it😄

YMMV but I see little point in such attention to visual details of a movement as signed rotor and engine turning of the same pattern on a rep of a watch with a closed back

[hologramet]

2 hours ago, Sogeha said:

I see little point in such attention to visual details of a movement as signed rotor and engine turning of the same pattern on a rep of a watch with a closed back

I completely agree with you on that point. Thank you very much Rolex making repping easier. Same think with Grand Seikos divers. My two favorite watches (Daytona & 44mm Spring Drive Diver) have some of the most beautiful ”serial produced”-movements, hidden. 🥲

[automatico]

hologramet:

"...that isn’t 100% correct.. They have KIF shocks, and are Top grade regarding the rest; Glucydur spring etc..Don’t remember if they are/used to be chrono certified. Also.. what’s the point of it being engine turned if  the bridge isn’t engraved."

 

You missed two key words.

"The main difference looking at a regular ETA 2824-2 and a tudor 2824-2 is the tudor movement is engine turned for decoration."

 

My guess is many regular watch guys can not tell a KIF Parechoc from an Incabloc.  

Balance wheels are sometimes made out of Glucydur, not hairsprings.

Vintage ETA 2824-2 tooters did not use certified movements afaik.  If they did they would brag about it.

 

ETA grades:

Standard – adjusted in two positions; accuracy of +/-12 sec/day up to +/- 30 sec/day.

Elabore – adjusted in three positions; accuracy of +/-7 sec/day up to +/- 20 sec/day.

Top – adjusted in five positions; accuracy of +/-4 sec/day up to +/- 15 sec/day.

Chronometer – COSC specs.

 

Standard and Elabore Grades:
Nickel plated balance wheel; Nivarox  hairspring; polyrubies used for pallet jewels. 

Polyrubies? 

 

Top and Chronometer Grades:
Glucydur balance wheel; Anachron hairspring; red rubies used for pallet jewels.

 

One way to distinguish between Standard/Elabore and Top/COSC grades of ETA movements is to look at the anti-shock device on the balance wheel:

Standard Novodiac / ETACHOC

Elabore Novodiac / ETACHOC

Top Incabloc

Chronometer Incabloc

 

Sogeha:

 "...I see little point in such attention to visual details of a movement as signed rotor and engine turning of the same pattern on a rep of a watch with a closed back."

 

Me neither, I was just trying to put something up because the forum is so slow.  Truth is I never cared much for tooters.  Especially newer tooters. 

Newer tooters = Neutered tooters imho.  Ha!

[alligoat]

Newer tooters = Neutered tooters imho.  Ha!

Interesting! I don't know how new you're referring to. This is slightly off topic and I apologize, but I recently picked up a Trusty 79090 Tudor sub and am very happy with it. This sub dates from 1990 to 1995 say. The original had a 2824-2 movement. The rep has a 2836-2 clone which is doing well. My friend poo-pahed the buy since it doesn't have a 2824-2, but I didn't really mind. This watch reminds me of the 1680- plastic crystal, 200m=660ft depth rating, same bezel construction as the 1680. The 79090 is a rehash of the 1680 and at a lower price point, but that doesn't bother me- I've always been an economically minded individual. Part of the reason I became interested in the 79090 was because my 1680 MBW encountered a problem. I was deciding to finally do another set of mods to the watch but in taking the watch apart I realized the caseback and case had become cross threaded- yuck. So that project is now on the back burner. On to the 79090- I picked up a 703 crown, will pull the current crown and tube and trim the crown guards, install a new AM 7030 tube and the 703 crown. Next I'll drill the lugholes and install the Rolex springbars. Lastly, I'll age the dial and hands slightly. BTW, the 79090 has great lume. This is the JKF model and it's really a pretty good deal for the price. It's got me looking at the 9411 rep and the 1680. I just love it when I can take a $250 rep and make a few mods and end up with a great beater for $400.

[automatico]

Newer tooters...

 

alligoat:

"I don't know how new you're referring to."

 

I look at toots the same way I look at rolex...acrylic crystal models are 'vintage' and sapphire models are 'modern'.  More or less.

Exceptions are A260 etc models and I consider then ' vintage junque' because of autowind trouble and no parts.  Old hand winders are Ok because they do not give much trouble.

 

Genuines...

The last new/nos tootsub I had was a 94010 nos in June 1998 that I bought for $425USD from a watch trader.  Had another used acrylic no date model later but gave it away.  Free!  Looking back that was a dumb move.  Nothing much since then but a new tutone quartz DJ type, new tutone auto, and a vintage 9 karat gold Dennison cased manual wind model, all long gone.  A trader had a nice used blue snowflake for $300 back then but I passed on it...another bad move but they came around now and then and were not very hot at the time.

There were a lot of relatively cheap nos toots floating around in the 1990s.

 

Only toot stuff left are a few 'toot kits' that have a case, dial, and signed clasp.  I bought them to get the lug hole cases and they have glass crystals but a #12 acrylic will work.  I was going to stick a couple 34mm explorer projects together but never did.  Cobbled up a first quarter 1964 1003 'explorer' with a 1560 and Yuki dial instead.

 

79090...

"This is the JKF model and it's really a pretty good deal for the price."

 

I have a JKF '5513' and it is pretty good too except the lug holes appear to be a hair too high in the lugs.  In reality the holes are not that high but the bevel on the lug tops make them look like it.  It has a brass movement spacer with case clamps/screws and oem spec case neck/case tube threads.  The case back is not oem spec iirc.  They would probably be a good base for a lower buck project if they are still available.

[RW5513]

As usual... With reps, the sky is the limit... Just depends how much you want to spend both in time and money. As mentioned before by Alligoat, you can start with a Cartel:

Around $300 or so.

Or, you can build a super rep with a Viet case, the rest gen, and a gen dial...

Around $3000 or so...

Your pick. Your money. Ask me how I know. Alligoat and Sogeha know me ... Personally. .


Cheers to y'all !

I recently got an itch for a Tuber Sub so now I'm looking for someone who can build one with mostly genuine parts (where possible). Any recommendations?
 
Thanks!

[AP773]

Thanks all for the responses, even though some are a bit beyond me

I recently picked this one up and want to get your opinions on the case. I’m hoping to build with mostly gen parts but one of the parts that will likely be rep is the case. I was leaning towards a phong case, unless this one here looks pretty close. Any opinions on the lug shape/thickness, crown guards, etc?

Thanks again!











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[alligoat]

Check out 9401s on the internet- print up a few pics of the gens and compare them to your watch.

Your crown guards have been trimmed but could use a little fine tuning.

The crown appears to be a 24-700 which is early and I guess ok. Tudor Collector says the 9401 was introduced in 1976, but it seems that I had read as early as 1970. 1976 would be a 24-702 crown- which you can get from Athaya, but you'd need to change out the tube also, so maybe you just go with the 24-700 crown for now.

You need to ditch the pearl- that small metal surround just doesn't cut it. Get yourself an all acrylic pearl. Try Ofrei or Athaya.

I can't tell if the lugholes have been drilled- looks kinda like it. The bevel on the lugs is fairly pronounced- maybe overly so, but like I say- look at some gens. The Rolex springbars would be nice if they fit.

If you don't have a Tudor bracelet, a Nato strap would be fine, or I like those leather straps from cheapnatostraps.com.

You don't say which movement it has, but a 2824 or 2836 would be fine. Crown position on the case looks good- maybe it's a 2824.

A little light aging of the dial and hands- maybe with a tea stain- can't hurt. 

I'd say enjoy your watch!