watchmaker9 New 1 to 1 copy Submarinercase ?

[elprimerozen]

TTK's MBW 16610 has similar bezel assembly like in 316L's pics:

Eddie Lee's is a ETA noobmariner. I couldn't pop the bezel to look but I heard it also has a ring plate under the bezel for the click mechanism.

-bk

Its exactly the same for my latest perfect sub from Joshua(328$)

[By-Tor]

Hey... the project watch in the pictures isn't a Noobmariner. But the watch that is LINKED from the project page is.

http://www.watchmaker9.tv/products/rolex_0...iner_16610T.htm

I browsed the page sloppily and thought that he was showing the final product there (a Noobmariner), but apparently the project watch is going to look different. But remember the old saying... pictures prove absolutely nothing.

[watcher]

I plumped for one from Eddie as it looks pretty good straight out of the box in the pics he has posted. all the basics are there to tweak it. I will still look to complete the order with WM9 as well as he says pics will be sent out today or tomorrow so we will see!

[itreeman]

Watcher, I took a look at the pre-order page and it looks like they are no longer taking pre-orders? Did it say the following when you placed your order?....

"Please Make A Reservation

Dear Customers:

Thank you so much for shopping with us. Your business is important to us, and we appreciate it.

However, due to the high volume of orders recently, the delivery date will be lengthened to 30 days. We can not take your payment and make the delivery after 30 days.

Please do not make your order at this time. You will not directed to the Authorize.Net Secure Check Out Page by clicking "Click To Order" at the current moment.What we are going to do back here is to reserve the parts needed to build up your timepiece, and once we have fulfilled the orders made by previous customers and scheduled your order to be delivered in 14 days, we will send you an email to ask you to check out.

To make a reservation, please email George: "

[alligoat]

LOL, Looks like business must be good!

[watcher]

I placed an order and received an email back from them with an order reference number and an eamil form George arrived later saying pics of the final watch would be available before the weekend. The message about delays was there and no option to pay the $499 offer price was available like you say in your post. I'm not holding my breath on this really.

[tonyp1]

This guys prices are up there... but his blue TT sub is the only rep Ive seen with the correct shade of blue. Damn this guys stuff is nice his watches look believable.

Edited June 8, 2007 by tonyp1

[yellomen]

Gotto see it be4 i believe it.

If they can make a true 1:1 case and the ETA 2824 or 2836 don't fit, i'm sure one of the asian mvt's can fit... The mvt doens't have to do more than tell the time and date... so no complications like chrono and i guess an asian mvt will do for me... as long as the bloody case is seriously 1:1...

[watcher]

No news at all and I don't really think I will get any to be honest. I hope I'm wrong but there seems to be too many reasons that this project is not possible.

[bklm1234]

I've exchanged a few emails with watchmaker9 George. He said he originally wanted to use 2892-A2 but gave up and went back to 2836-2 because the cost would be too high. Bottom-line is it's a compromised sub rep with lower crown position and altered CG shape.

-bk

[alligoat]

I've exchanged a few emails with watchmaker9 George. He said he originally wanted to use 2892-A2 but gave up and went back to 2836-2 because the cost would be too high. Bottom-line is it's a compromised sub rep with lower crown position and altered CG shape.

-bk

One thing I keep wondering about on this crown position issue is, why wouldn't a 2824-2 work? In building my Frankenjusts using the older 16013 and 16014 cases from the 80's, I had to use the 2836 to get the crown and stem to line up with the tube, etc. But the later 16200 Datejust cases use the 2824 so that the crown, tube and stem line up correctly. If a 2824 works in those cases which use the 3135 movement and the modern subs use the same 3135 movt, wouldn't it stand to reason that the 2824 would fit in a correct sub case and position the crown properly?

[poopypants]

I've exchanged a few emails with watchmaker9 George. He said he originally wanted to use 2892-A2 but gave up and went back to 2836-2 because the cost would be too high. Bottom-line is it's a compromised sub rep with lower crown position and altered CG shape.

How can this guy call it a : "2007 Z-Serial Submariner 16610 & 16613 Watchcase, fully identical to authentic." if it has been proven that 2836-2 does not work in a genuine case?!?!

Confused here...

When reading his description... I should be able to fit any genuine part on that thing... I should be able to use:

1. genuine crystal (should have genuine window location and magnification)

2. genuine bezel/insert (i can use a gen bezel assembly with no issues)

3. genuine case-back (share same threading as genuine)

4. bracelet (and it should fit identical to the genuine with correct tolerances on the the sides and be sunk in correctly (not raised like cheap models)

I mean, It is in fact "IDENTICAL", right?

I guess the REAL question is, if he is actually constructing this thing using the parts from the 2007 model for genuine fitments tolerances...

PP

Edited June 12, 2007 by poopypants

[yodaddynukka]

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO MAKE A GARD DAMN 1:1 SUB?!?!?!?!!! GRRRRRRR!!!! I WANT, I WANT!!!! ok done ranting..

[tonyp1]

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO MAKE A GARD DAMN 1:1 SUB?!?!?!?!!! GRRRRRRR!!!! I WANT, I WANT!!!! ok done ranting..

From what Ive read youll never see a true 1:1 until the rep manufactures find a way to copy a rolex movement successfully. I mean If they can copy ETA movements why not rolex?

[magick1]

Here's a dead giveaway http://www.watchmaker9.tv/products/rolex_d...e_118205ARO.htm

See their references:

http://goreplicas.com/

http://www.idealwatches.com/index-fake-rolex.htm

http://www.perfectswiss.com/

Three scam sites, who ever sells watches and refers to scam sites doesn't stand behind his products

I could care less if WM9 sells any of these or not....

But this is just marketing like any other salesman would use. You find and reference people or companies selling the same or close to products as yours, at a considerable higher cost. This way your products look like a great deal....and then you stress better products or stronger customer service to close the deal. Also remember that I would dare say that atleast 95% of WM9's buyers either have never bought a rep or have been scammed by the ones he has referenced....so they feel like they have found the "Holy Grail" when they find or are sent to his sight.

I can remember I found his site a few years ago by a google search not by being "spammed" and if I had not been checking him out oneday by a "whois" search and a little internet detective work I would have never been brought back to the Replica Collector web site which led me here, and to the Darkside, which I am very gratefull for......so that is the only for sure thing I can say about WM9 is it led me here and elsewhere.

[Pugwash]

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO MAKE A GARD DAMN 1:1 SUB?!?!?!?!!! GRRRRRRR!!!! I WANT, I WANT!!!! ok done ranting..

Because the regular movements we insist upon are different dimensions to the Rolex movement. Until we get an off-the-shelf Rolex-compatible movement, we're not going to get an accurate Sub.

[jake48]

I find the comments regarding WM9 very interesting, unfortunately quite a few seem to come from ignorance. For a community that constantly pines over the smallest details - pearl isn't rounded enough, metal rings around markers are too thick, second hand is too short, second hand is too long, angle of rehaut is too steep, date mag is too strong, date mag is too weak, coronet is wrong shape etc etc etc, when someone comes along that claims to be making a MAJOR improvement to satisfy our unquenchable thirst for the "perfect" rep, why all the attacks? Especially when the watch has not even been produced yet!

I have been at this a lot longer then most of those who are spouting the negative comments about WM9 and I have to say, from where I sit, it looks like a pack mentality of people repeating things they have never checked for themselves. I looked at WM9's last offering of 16610's and 16613's and sure enough, he was offering subs, although good subs, that were basically the same we had available to us from our "trusted" dealers. Sure our dealers were cheaper, but I have kept tabs on WM9 over the last two years and I have to say, everything I was able to discern about him led me to believe he was about as honest as they come in the rep world and he was truly trying to provide what he believed to be one of the best subs out there. If he was able to sell it at a greater price - more power to him! This did not make him a scammer, however.

What he is currently offering with this new case, if it truly comes out as he has described, will be the single greatest improvement to the modern rep sub to date. PERIOD! Will it be a perfect 1:1? - Probably not. If it ends up being what he claims, I have no doubt we will see our "trusted" dealers offering it too (and probably at a cheaper price as well). Would I pay WM9 high price for this new case - You bet!

I am a very sceptical person by nature. I certainly would not bet the farm on WM9, or ANYBODY else in the rep world for that matter, but I am willing to put my money were my mouth is. I am going to buy a WM9 16613 and then we can all see for ourselves if this is a good sub case or just a hoax.

If it is a good sub case I will consider myself lucky and there will be a lot of people out there who will look like ignorant blow hard fools. If it ends up being a hoax - I was the fool for spending the money. I still think it would be wise to reserve judgement untill we know for sure.

Like pug said;

Until we get an off-the-shelf Rolex-compatible movement, we're not going to get an accurate Sub.

This means to me that right now, right here, this new sub case (if it is as claimed) will probably be as good as it gets for a while.

And if you have made a "hobby" out of of trying to find/make the best rep sub you can, wouldn't you want to see this case made?

I would...

Edited June 13, 2007 by jake48

[Guest RiverwindMDS]

How can this guy call it a : "2007 Z-Serial Submariner 16610 & 16613 Watchcase, fully identical to authentic." if it has been proven that 2836-2 does not work in a genuine case?!?!

Confused here...

When reading his description... I should be able to fit any genuine part on that thing... I should be able to use:

1. genuine crystal (should have genuine window location and magnification)

2. genuine bezel/insert (i can use a gen bezel assembly with no issues)

3. genuine case-back (share same threading as genuine)

4. bracelet (and it should fit identical to the genuine with correct tolerances on the the sides and be sunk in correctly (not raised like cheap models)

I mean, It is in fact "IDENTICAL", right?

I guess the REAL question is, if he is actually constructing this thing using the parts from the 2007 model for genuine fitments tolerances...

PP

Why not using the Seagull copy of the 2892?

[Pugwash]

I find the comments regarding WM9 very interesting, unfortunately quite a few seem to come from ignorance.

The reason for the negative comments is because WM9 has been scamming people for years, even sending shills over here with adverts pretending to be reviews. His outrageously overpriced watches were $550 noobmariners.

Everything he says is liable to be taken with a huge pinch of salt because we've had a year of his vastly overinflated claims and shills.

It's more experience than ignorance.

[elprimerozen]

The reason for the negative comments is because WM9 has been scamming people for years, even sending shills over here with adverts pretending to be reviews. His outrageously overpriced watches were $550 noobmariners.

Everything he says is liable to be taken with a huge pinch of salt because we've had a year of his vastly overinflated claims and shills.

It's more experience than ignorance.

It was the time to come here Pug!Im with you onthat!

[jake48]

The reason for the negative comments is because WM9 has been scamming people for years, even sending shills over here with adverts pretending to be reviews. His outrageously overpriced watches were $550 noobmariners.

Everything he says is liable to be taken with a huge pinch of salt because we've had a year of his vastly overinflated claims and shills.

It's more experience than ignorance.

Your kinda proving my point Pug. When you make a statement like you did above, flaming someone's character, you should have some first hand knowledge or proof.

Have you been "scammed" by WM9 or do you know anyone who will come on here and tell us how they were scammed by WM9?

Like I said, I have been closely watching WM9 for the last few years. As far as can remember, the only thing I read about WM9 was that some people reported being unhappy with thier watches as they felt the watches were not as good as they were advertised. Any dealer on here has had that experience.

I am not trying to pick a fight, nor am I trying to defend WM9 as I do not have personal experience with this guy. I think the case he is saying he will make will be a good case and quite possibly the best one to date.

I am not prepared to make negative statements like "WM9 has been scamming people for years" when I have little or no real proof or experience that would support such a statement. It 's statements like these that I feel are either made from ignorance or done to be malicious (which I doubt)

What kind of "experience" are you talking about?

[itreeman]

Thing is that most everyone in this thread is concerned that we are waiting around for something that A) already exists and is being overhyped. or something that may be new but not exclusive or C) the most perfect case to date. Since all we can go on is the limited info wm9 has provided and the pics... we can only speculate on what we have to go on. Whether or not any of us was burned previously by wm9 really makes no difference when we all know they were selling $550 noobs ( and not some exclusive watch) previously...that fact alone already leads folks to be wary. Don't get me wrong I hope this thing is real

[jake48]

Thing is that most everyone in this thread is concerned that we are waiting around for something that A) already exists and is being overhyped. or something that may be new but not exclusive or C) the most perfect case to date. Since all we can go on is the limited info wm9 has provided and the pics... we can only speculate on what we have to go on. Whether or not any of us was burned previously by wm9 really makes no difference when we all know they were selling $550 noobs ( and not some exclusive watch) previously...that fact alone already leads folks to be wary. Don't get me wrong I hope this thing is real

tree- I see your point and pretty much agree that there seems to be little doubt that WM9 is selling watches for more than others here are selling for what we have to GUESS is the same watch. I just happen to be one who generaly gives the benefit of the doubt unless I have solid proof or first hand experience to make me believe otherwise. If the criteria for determining that a dealer is a a "scammer" is based on the fact that one dealer sells the same watch that another sells for a higher price, then almost all of our beloved dealers are "scammers".

I do not know if WM9's watch is for sure a "noobmariner" and I don't know what WM9 paid to get his watch to market (thus justifing his higher price). I have emailed WM9 several times over the years and my impression from the answers he gave me was that he was trying to build the best Sub he could and charged what he thought he could get for it (or get away with). I passed on purchasing one of his last few subs as I didn't feel they were anything new or earth shattering that I couldn't get for less. From my personal experience, I never felt that WM9 was a scammer.

What bugs me is that people who have no first hand knowledge or who have attempted to make even the slightest effort to contact the guy start blithering on and join the dog pile about what a "scammer" he is.

Thier fake watches for Christ's sake, man!

I will tell you this, after spending considerably more money trying to build a good 16613 than what WM9 is asking for his 16613, if the 16613 is what he says it is, I feel it will be worth every penny of the $625.00 to own it.

Edited June 13, 2007 by jake48

[By-Tor]

I do not know if WM9's watch is for sure a "noobmariner"

Yeah, but I know... at least the watch in his pictures is. I've owned 2 of them, and I have eyes in my head.

[jfreeman420]

On the subject of Rolex copy movements,

I'm surprised no one has done an aftermarket movement that fits a genuine rolex. They make every other part aftermarket. I'm sure there is a market for people who flood their rolex or wear out the movement from not servicing it.