Why RWI has removed Josh and Andrew as dealers

[EuroTimez]

@Noel, you knowningly bought a watch with problem movement, e-mailed you prior to buying it about it or something like that. You decided to buy it nonetheless, watch was opened and tested by our watchmaker before shipping (as seals get greased etc)....

Watch arrived in working state, however it died after a couple weeks --- which is known for the daytona @ 6 to have a movement which can go for years but could also break within weeks (which again you knew about) --- Then after watch being worn, and used for weeks you want to have a replacement? then you say that the "wheels inside a movement are bent ---according to your watchmaker---

I'm sorry about that... but the watch movement, anybody correct me if I'm wrong, but if even one wheel was bent (since everthing is connected and working together inside the movement) ! --starters it would have been seen by our watchmaker and even if it got missed, then again the movement won't be running and fully functioning BEFORE shipment as we inspect that, and after you RECEIVED it...

I mean has anyone had a problem with a "bent" wheel, I find it very strange.

Sorry but your story is too dubious for me... I told you what I said above, and you were like oh eh.... my watchmaker I thought was reliable...

Then You agreed to the statement I made above ---that what your watchmaker said didn't make much sense after all--- so you requested a discount which I didn't need to... but out of curtisy I agreed.

Read my policies... I can't say it often enough.

I won't guarantee movements, time-keeping, reliablity now or in the future, esp asian movements or known movement that brake down...

Quality Control --what to expect and what NOT to expect.

To ensure that you receive what you’ve ordered in a top notch state our High Quality Control includes but not limited to:

• Checking for crooked markers
  
  
• Checking the lume
  
  
• Checking the pearl if it is acceptable
  
  
• Checking the overall quality
  
  
• Checking the bracelet / clasp
  
  
• Checking if the movement is exactly as ordered/advertised (New ETA for instance and not a copy/second grade ETA)
  
  
• Checking if all functions work like it normally would (we do not however check if the watch keeps good time)
  
  
• Checking the bezel
  
  
• Checking the dial (no dust, dirt)
  
  
• Check the date and days if applicable (1-31)
  
  
• Check if all screws can unscrew
  
  

  
  
  In addition we add value to your watch by;
  
  

  • Adding silicon grease to gaskets crowns for extra water-resistance
    
    
  • Adjusting the glass if needed (like rolex submariner glass usually needs to get reinstalled due to the date mag not sitting exactly over the date)
    
    
  • Adjusting the crown if it doesn’t open/close well (common flaw)
    
    
  • Align the date when possible.
    
    
  • When necessary we will reinstall the hands on a ETA/Asian movement so when the time hits 24.00 the date changes neatly in one go.
    
    

  What not to expect;

  Some things are almost impossible to do within reasonable cost / time effectiveness which is why we don’t:

  [*]
  regulate the movements because it’s very time consuming and expensive (unless customer wants to pay at additional cost for this service)
  [*]
  guarantee the the timing of the watch
  [*]
  guarantee it is within COSC specs.
  [*]
  guarantee the movement life-span, reliability, upon arrival or in the future.
  [*]
  We’re dealing with reps and some of the Asian movements tend to be less reliable than the Swiss or gen. counterpart.
  [*]
  We don’t oil, wax and grease your bracelet.

  To read more about Quality Control:

  http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?act=fi...&pid=438734

  Although we generally make sure your watch is without cosmetic flaws and functions the way its intended, we cannot however make a rep like a genuine, there are some facets you must accept when purchasing a replica. Not one replica is 100% perfect and sometimes you must live with a certain flaw or else get it professionally modded. Just because we perform a High Quality Control on your watch doesn’t mean we can make it more like Genuine. We fine-tune the rep to “perfect like state”, “perfect” in the sense that it comes the way it “should/suppose” to. (for instance a rolex replica shouldn’t come with glass that is crooked, wrong DW, or lume that is off and function the way it suppose to).

  However there are standard flaws that come with the purchase of a rep. There are some things that we do that can help to ensure top notch quality yet there is however a fine balance of things that we cannot / will not do.

  ----------

  I'm not on a honeymoon, I'm actually having some new watches released soon...(hopefully tomorrow), making special deals with supplier, updating my website, writing back to customers, taking orders, shipping watches, doing QC, and living my life OUTSIDE of the forum... YES I have a life outside of the forum.

  Hope this clears things up...

  Chris

Edited July 27, 2008 by EuroTimez

[RobbieG]

Yes, I am very familiar with her. In fact I just saw another documentary about her on Netflix instant view not too long ago. She was straight up stone brutal for sure. Maybe the most brutal broad that ever lived - although I wouldn't use that term to her face. Gulp...

sorry man it's what comes to my mind every time i see somebody say "remember it is an illegal hobby" the scenario i posted is how it goes down in an illegal situation and everybody here knows it. it is never, "it's ok because it is illegal". this is how it really goes down. google griselda blanko and read how it works in the real world when somebody gets screwed big time in an illegal business. she served her time and was deported back to columbia and now no one knows where she is. she may be dead or maybe not but there are people everywhere looking over their shoulder all day long waiting to get hit because of it.

jandrew and co. keep doing this because they don't think their will be any retaliation but they are worried enough they are reading this thread to see what kind of damage control they will consider. so far it is a raffel at rg

[f5mando]

What i bring to this discussion is my own feelings and experience.

i was trying to say that most of us are not privi to the back door dealings

of black market merchants across the globe. (apparently Dave 123 might be)

I am not naive- of course I believe that Josh and Andrew (and Bill Gates)

would try to manipulate the market to their advantage. Nor do I believe all of the claims;

for example- the ETA issue vs. clones. Like many of us, I came here late in the game.

I was used to paying $1000 for so called solid 18k gold reps with 27 jewel movements!

I am used to be lied to in this game. Not to condone it, rather by comparison I find

Josh a relative saint.

As for Eurotimez- not to knock him, but he seems to be enjoying a honeymoon around here.

Perhaps because he is fairly new as a dealer. I bought 1 watch from him which turned out

to be a POS! (Daytona which is a problem piece- I know) I really doubt the QC was better than Josh in that case.

And- I realize that Josh & Andrew both probably drop-ship, even if they deny it.

Its a free country- if RMI bans the Cartel good for them. Caveat Emptor, if people don't feel good about

"jandrew" they can buy elsewhere. So far; I have no reason to be angry with Josh. He's always been fair with me,

selfishly, that's my main concern.

I couldn't disagree with you more, sir: The whole point of these boards isn't to protect the dealers, and condone their bad behavior, low standards, and lack of ethics because, "compared to my previous experiences he is a relative saint.."! When I read rubbish like, "He's always been good to me..yadda-yadda-yadda caveat emptor", and all that - all I can say is, "bully for you, mate"! This "I'm alright, Jack" attitude is of no use to anyone but the braggardt saying it. That doesn't do anything for the rest of the unfortunate dupes who got screwed where you got lucky.

Aren't we here (and please correct me if I'm wrong) to share and to benefit from each others' experience, and keep the standards of replication and dealings as high as we can at reasonable prices?

For too long I've been hearing this line of wussie excuses being made on the dealers' behalf, and it just doesn't wash - it never did. Some of us at least are, "mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more".

Why should Jandrew (or any other wheeler-dealer/drop-shippers, for that matter) continue to benefit from the (oft-misguided) loyalty of our board members? Illegal business or not, these boards full of enthusiasts parting collectively with large sums of hard-earned dosh has legitimized their dealerships. Who else feels like their walking on egg-shells when trying to resolve a dispute with one of them?

I for one am glad this has all come out. I only hope that some good can come of this, like the honest dealers will reap the rewards of their honesty by getting the redirected business that would have gone to that watch mafia.

[lanikai]

for what it's worth .. this thread seems to be taking a turn towards bringing another forum and it's Admin Team into the mix and making it a matter of "choose sides"

I cannot see where it helps the membership of RWG, and it's relationship with other forums.. except to cause dissension within it's membership, and animosity towards it's neighbors for what ever "administrative Policies" they choose.. should be left up to that forum and it's decision makers..

I'm not referring to what is right or wrong or factual ..what is documented or conjecture..

This discussion bringing in RG in such a provocative way is not right.. even if it makes it's point..

I think each forum should be autonomous in how it conducts it's "decisions" on the Admin level..

Peace...

R

[hk45ca]

No, don't. Google Griselda Blanco instead.

thank you pugs, i am at work and in a litte bit of a hurry. the minute i sit down at my desk i get called away again. Griselda Blanco is exactly correct.

[Daytona4me]

OR lanikai.. it is extremely relevant to this topic and the direct impact the cartels have on Price & Forum control.

It again describes another influence that the cartel have. It is extremely relevant regardless of who's feelings it may hurt.

Andy why in the world would this subject be "no touch" as I have read many many many threads on RWG where members tee'd off on RWI admin

over the banning of TTK from our forum (only to see others do the same later) ...

This is extremely relevant as there are a lot of truths coming out here... now... expect denials ... etc... whatever..

But someone proclaimed (any comment of RG and cartel collusion is pure speculation) .. see a couple pages prior to this one...

So... here is the proof.. now I hope the membership can deal with it.

[topgun]

As some of you may know, RWI (the Dark Side) has just taken action against the two largest dealers on any of the forums, Josh and Andrew. Although this issue has gotten little to no attention over here, I believe this is something that has an impact on every forum member. The nutshell version is that Andrew was caught, red-handed, trying to intimidate another dealer into raising prices of certain reps. When the dealer refused, Andrew responded by saying that he would make sure the factory did not supply any more reps to this dealer. Andrew and Josh were given an opportunity to respond, and refused to do so. As a result, we were forced to remove their sections.

What follows is the message that was posted on RWI concerning our reasons:

Due to evidence brought forth to the staff of RWI, both Josh and Andrew's sections on RWI have been closed. The discussions and polling on these matters may be seen in the following threads.

http://replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewtopic...f=1&t=41999

http://replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewtopic...p;sk=t&sd=a

http://replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewtopic...f=1&t=42036

http://replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewtopic...ilit=white+lies

Andrew has not seen fit to respond or provide any answers on the subject other than to deflect the issue and claim that dealers are conspiring against him. Josh and Andrew have always been viewed as one and the same due to their close connection and business partnership. Thus, we have made the decision to sanction both of them at this time.

We have not made this decision easily as these two dealers have been mainstays of RWI. This decision was made due to a concentrated effort by these two dealers to obstruct other valued dealers and, ultimately, you the member from obtaining replicas at a fair price. They have sought to control the market and intimidate other dealers into raising prices.

Others (whether they be members here or on the other forums) will laugh and think that we are silly... They will say that we are shouting at the rain and that we can't change anything... Maybe they are right but our purpose in this world is to bring you, the member, the safest and best replica hobby experience we can...

You may not agree with our decision, but please respect that we have made this decision with your best interests at heart.

We hope that the closing of their sections is not permanent and that they will respond to us and the topics at hand can be mediated. Until then, their sections will remain closed with this message there.

Has RWG banned Joshua and andrew from the site? I still see them listed on the Forum as Dealers.

Has RWG banned Joshua and andrew from the site? I still see them listed on the Forum as Dealers.

Edited July 27, 2008 by topgun

[Pugwash]

Has RWG banned Joshua and andrew from the site? I still see them listed on the Forum as Dealers.

RWI != RWG.

[hk45ca]

RWI != RWG.

+1

[omni]

I don't know if this has any relevance in this particular thread but the discussion did pop up in that Skyland price war thread linked in here. How much do the rep. forums influence Joshua and Andrew's business, 1%, 5%, 50%, 80%???

Don't put too much exact faith in Trafficestimate.com or Alexa.com in completely counting all the web traffic since they will usually only count about half of what Google Analytics will count, but using Trafficestimate.com as a guide since Joshua and Andrew's websites don't register in the top 100,000 websites requirement of Alexa or Google Analytics, you can draw your own conclusions.

Joshua's site gets 72,000 visitors a month.

Andrew's site gets 58,000 visitors a month.

Repgeek and RWG are even with 107,000 visitors each a month.

RWI gets 62,000 a month.

Supposedly a lesser dealer Angus' site gets 60,000 visitors a month.

As stated before, if you google their websites, they don't come up right away and probably would seem most of their business traffic comes from the rep forums.

[Daytona4me]

@topgun, RWI has removed them as dealers (I dont think they are banned)

This thread was not started as a call to RWG to do the same.

I say Pugwash & HK are both +1

Also,, I have seen some very nice comments from Offshore, HK, Pugwash ..etc.. all towards and including one another.. this may not have happened a long time ago if it were not for some serious efforts to put some problems behind all of us.. glad everyone is moving forward.

[slay]

What I don't understand is the number of people in this threat who are doing flips and twists trying to explain away or justify Andrews actions. I mean, the man can't be bothered doing it HIMSELF. Why all the anguish and word gymnastics trying to defend someone who doesn't respect forum members enough to give a serious reply?

If people still think he's worth dealing with then go and enjoy. He's open for business as usual. If he's a hard-nosed, cunning, typical businessman as some say he is, then he'll survive this glitch. Clearly he doesn't think that his reputation on these boards will hit him too badly.

Why try to convert those of us who don't like the idea of being cheated?

Its because they are all like little kids. When you tell a Kid that his PS3 sucks, he will also start insulting you an tell you that his PS3 is uberc00l and that Xbox Sucks and so on. He will make it his OWN WAR to show you different! No matter what

[Noel Fleischer]

@15mando- i'm not bragging about anything.nor am i here to defend the dealers. i'm just

saying that my experience with josh for the most part has been good (i bet many would agree).

i'm Not condoning any unethical behavior, nor do i want to see anyone ripped off.

i've been ripped off many times in this business. i said i don't believe all the claims by the cartels-

for example, i doubt every mov't they claim to sell as swiss is really an eta- not a clone.

and yes this bothers me. but you can have the same problem with ruby too.

what suprises me here- this vast outpouring of anger against the'cartel'. lets get real here

they are not war criminals. who are we to judge when we are all part of a collective illegal

network.if everybody is so fed up why do they continue to buy from these guys. i don't see

how we can cry victim so much when we get a very reasonable rep for 5% of the cost and in the case of

'jandrew' almost immediate 24/7 service.

@Eurotimez- as i said above, i'm not here to knock you. i was just using an example

for the this thread. everybody seems bent on hanging josh &andrew and i was playing the devils advocate.i added that i'd probably buy again, knowing that daytonas are a problem. so i'm not angry; i just had bad luck.

the only thing that i will say again- if a watchmaker who has no axe to grind says there is a problem mov't;

i would tend to believe him. i'm sorry if this sounds suspicious.

[FxrAndy]

@ Noel

First a bit of political strong arming next a small calibre round behind the ear, dramatizing, hmm no just excalation.

[doc savage]

There was a time.. long long ago where there was a dealer named TWP. He was kicked off of repgeek because the cartel did not want him there. Andrew had a problem with him so he was removed.

TWP posted all of this with screen shots of the conversation on RWI. The place went nuts.. they could not believe that repgeek was actually being run by the cartel. The [censored] stunk so bad,, repgeek added him back as a dealer pretty quick and TWP removed the screen prints of the shoutbox which were so damming.. I grabbed a copy of those prints before they were deleted because I had a feeling they would be deleted and lost forever.

Here are those screen prints.. draw your own conclusions.. the entire staff is very sorry to TWP , they dont want to see him go..

Again.. another example of "control" this time.. it is clear that their influence or ...decisions... require that any thread that is posted about this event (which is a hot enough topic to have 14 pages on RWG right now) be deleted immediately.... and damage control happen almost immediately by Josh and Andrew doing a raffle on RG. ??? again..... draw your own conclusions... If anyone here is blind.. can someone lend them glasses..

That's crazy. Why was the cartel targeting TWP specifically?

[LegendofSpeed]

Andrew and Josh were removed as dealers... but they still have open accounts on RWI in the hope they will contact myself or the staff to discuss things...

Josh and Andrew were great dealers once... and true friends of the forums.... but can you call someone a friend when you no longer trust them?

[the osteopath]

QUOTE:

"BTW- Andrew fixed my ROO in 5 days without a hitch. Try getting that from an AD."

Yet I got a dropshipped SMP GMT from him with the wrong clasp and has done bugger all to make it right. And I expect he won't.

Does that still leave him in the elite class?

I cannot answer for the support you received, only the service I got- which was top notch in this case, and has been. Sorry you are having problems.

-O

[Daytona4me]

roflmao,

maybe someone can start a new "SUPPORT" thread where everything unrelated to price fixing and collusion can be posted..

[TwoTone]

On the subject of RG, I tried posting something over there three times. The first one lasted about 2 minutes. The second one lasted about 30 seconds. The third lasted the longest, and that was about five minutes.

The TOPIC is now being openly discussed...

Although monitored carefully...

Which is something we probably should of done a little better here with this one...

I'll repeat By-Tors warning:

Keep it civil...

And don't allow yourself to personally attack another member for their views...

I'd hate to see someone get tossed over this...

Double T

[TwoTone]

The TOPIC is now being openly discussed...

Well maybe not...

[jraines87]

Well maybe not...

Closed? I'm not a member there....

[lanikai]

ssshhhhhhhhhhh,.... everybodies sleeping .. peacefully... or passed out...

[perry563]

I am kind of amazed......you mean to tell me that when someone posts about the situation here with andrew on RG these posts are removed almost immediatly? Why is this not giving everyone a HUGE pause to ponder? This is a huge indication that at least ONE major watch forum is controled by the dealers. Not good. Has anyone asked the admin why they are pulling posts that are trying to share with other watch rep buyers important information?

[TwoTone]

Closed? I'm not a member there....

No...

Just over ran with the clowns Dave123 & Luman...

[peepshow]

No...

Just over ran with the clowns Dave123 & Luman...

+ 10,000