automatico

I measured a 1675 (serial 555xxxx with 1575GMT hack): case thickness at 3 o'clock measuring at outside edge with caliper pushed against inner bezel and caseback...4.6mm thickness at 9 o'clock...4.3mm at 6 and 12...4.35mm overall thickness...12.8mm in center of crystal -- 13.35mm at magnifier thickest part of lugs on outside edge of 3 o'clock side about half way between the crown and springbar holes...5.0mm +/- at both ends (hard to get an exact measurement) on the other side...4.9mm +/- (hard to get an exact measurement) caseback od...35.45mm inner bezel (crystal bezel) od...36.03mm between lugs...20.02mm both ends Watch is in good condition, all genuine.

"Gary clark is working on a new crystal which he will soon release.It will have gen spec 1.8mm, rounded crystal edge , proper gen cyclops mag ,etc.....stay tuned" Is it 1.8mm thick? I measured two genuine 25-295C crystals, one from a 16220 DJ and one from a 16233 DJ and both were 30.4mm in diameter and 2.02mm thick.

"I was wondering if anyone has ever tried to drill holes in the ETA movement for a Rolez dial." No, but I have mounted a 1530/70/75 dial on a Bulova 11BLACD with the dial feet still on it. I made a template (looked like a 4mm thick flat washer) out of aluminum with holes matching the rolex dial feet and used it as a guide to drill holes in the Bulova plate. I did not try to drill and tap holes for dial foot screws but depended on the case clamps to supply tension to hold it all together. You might also use a couple dial dots to hold the dial in place until it is all clamped together. I also used this method to put a quartz Eta 256.031/2 into a tutone Ebel Sportwave that originally had an unmarked Eta that sells for $300+ (I paid $40 for the doa watch and the replacement movement was about $70). The Eta 256.031/2 has the dial foot holes at different locations and the detent button is on the dial side so now I have to remove the minute hand and dial to get to the detent button to remove the stem/crown and movement. The dial, hour wheel, and hour hand all stay together and fall off when you turn the watch upside down, this takes about 5 minutes including removing the 5 bezel screws and crystal. The watch originally had a two piece stem and you dropped the movement out complete. With a rolex 1530/70 dial on an Eta 2824/36/46...one foot is where the balance wheel spokes are and the other is where the train wheels are. You might be able to use a no date dial with short dial feet along with a taller canon pinion etc and a calendar spacer to keep the dial feet from hitting anything but I never tried it. I just took a quick look and went to the 11BLACD. Using an Eta calendar movement will probably complicate things further.

"Because until all this QC pic [censored] started, people paid their money, got what they were given, and it was either occasionally DOA (and the dealer would replace it) or in the majority of instances, absolutely fine. Personally, I don't know, and equally don't care, what the watches I receive measure at on timeographs. As long as they run with reasonable (in or near COSC standard) accuracy, that's all that really matters to me, and when people want babying over what should be a simple transaction, it's a bit disheartening to see." I agree with TJ. It's true that 202 is a bit lazy but the watch may run Ok...who knows? If no one knew... About the 202... And it ran Ok... What could you say? It seems (to me) that too much seriousness is slowly creeping into the forum. Replicas are for fun. To make matters worse...from reading on the 'net, I just found out that I have been oiling Eta reversers incorrectly for over 25 years. Now I worry why I never had any trouble with them. It never ends. Ignorance is bliss.

Your dial looks good. Genuine or not, I do not know. There is really no way to tell an 'original' 5500 explorer from a genuine 5500 AK with a genuine 5500 explorer dial and hands added later unless you have the original sales slip with the dial type noted (maybe in hand writing?) at the time of sale and I would guess these are few and far between. If a 5500 AK is all genuine and the explorer dial and hands are genuine...it should have the same value as an all original 5500 AK explorer from the factory as long as the factory model does not have b/p etc or proof of an explorer dial at the time of purchase. Otoh you can usually spot a genuine 5500 AK 'explorer' with an aft/mkt or refinished dial and genuine hands or genuine 5500 AK 'explorer' with aft/mkt or refinished dial and hands. A high quality naturally aged or artificially aged aft/mkt dial can be hard to spot. For example, I have a 'refinished' 6694 dial on a genuine dial blank from 'YKC' 6 or 8 years ago that is every bit as good as genuine and the only way to spot it is that it is light blue (and probably has Lumi dots). A 'refinished' dial is usually easy to spot. Some aft/mkt high quality dials are called 'refinished' to get by on eBay etc. 'Refinished' in this post refers to dials refinished by a dial refinished such as IDC, Kirk Rich etc. The 6694 dial above is really a 'refinished' dial but it is super high quality and quite a bit sharper than a normal 'refinished' dial. I like 1016 explorers and have a nos dial from the 1980's so I can compare it to better aft/mkt dials...that is how good some of them are now. Without something to compare them to I can sometimes not tell aged or better aft/mkt dials from genuine every time (I do not have a Geiger counter). If it is any help...my nos 1016 dial markers and numbers look like they are made out of a smooth waxy substance and not 'fuzzy' at all. You will see this same texture on many dials with tritium in gold settings...before they get sunburned etc. Aging over the years may change this as I have seen a lot of 'fuzzy' genuine markers/numbers. I have a few other swiss made watches with this waxy type of markers/numbers, one being a Kienzle Atlantis from 10 or 12 years back. Maybe the same dial company. AK 5500 'explorers' are like the flood of 'original' Spaceview 214 Accutrons 20 years back that were genuine but not 'original' because factory made SV are identical to regular 214 of the same case style that have been sent back to Bulova in the 1960's or 1970's to be modified into a SV or one changed over to a SV by a repair shop using genuine parts. I have changed a few over and there are no differences as long as you use oem parts and a case design that was originally offered as a SV from the factory. They were genuine but not original. Remember what the 'experts' say: "Buy the seller, not the watch." The catch is that some of the 'sellers' are not as sharp as they think they are and some are outright crooks. I say: "Buy it cheap enough and it does not matter."

Freddy...I agree with what you say. My post was meant to show what could be done at an affordable price with acceptable results. Another example being the current 'MBW' at around $400+/- that offers fine fit and finish (for an eta) and a nice dial at a reasonable price.

"...you ll be hard pressed to find any case under $1500 FYI" I would never pay that much. For that price, I could buy a genuine rolex 1603. "its all mark up. thats why theyre so expensive." True...and because a few will always pay the price. How much you pay has nothing to do with what you get. The guy who said "You get what you pay for" never bought a replica watch. If someone started making 95% accurate vintage 5513/1680 etc cases for $299 the prices would drop like a rock. DW was close...but still too far off. If an enterprising individual started with the closest to genuine $200 watches available (1680, 5513 etc) and modified the cases to accept genuine movements and dials, they could make a LOT of spending money. How about a Josh (asian 21j) 5513 and 1680 with proper CG and a deeper caseback for $199? That alone would probably knock out a lot of the demand for high $$ cases. But nooooooooo! That makes far too much sense. I give up. For now...

"Check out Steinhart and compare it with some rolexes iwc etc. Steinhart is a classic homage brand. Homage uses similar or identical design of a well known brand, but puts its own branding on it." You can't go wrong with Steinhart, a 'higher grade' homage watch. If you want a lower grade (more affordable) homage brand...Alpha comes to mind. I would venture to say Alpha is the 'internet king' of homage watches. One shining example is the Alpha ST19 'Daytona' chronograph...the $200 china chronograph that made $wiss chronographs seem like a bad deal.

I swapped out the GMT parts from a swiss eta 2836 to a swiss 2846 and posted how it went if you can find it...iirc it was a couple years back. The 2836 was one of the swiss etas with the common asian GMT conversion that takes power from the day of the week works and has a non adj 24 hour hand. The hands from dial up: 24h 12h m sec I traded it away a few years ago but the fellow who got it still wears it quite a bit with no trouble at all. Otoh, I always had pretty good luck with the '21 jewel' DG GMT movements as long as they were clean and had a little oil here and there...most of them being the older type with non adj 24 hour hands from 8 or 10 years ago. My 'hit or miss rule' for asian 21 jewelers: If they run for 3 months without going DOA...they will usually run 3 years or more. One thing I will say is that they are very rugged (except for rotor bearings).

"That's another thing I don't understand. How hard would it be to make a top quality clone movement?" It's like Freddy said: "Assuming you have the tooling, cloning the movement is relatively easy." Take the 'obsolete' Eta 28xx for instance...it is perfectly legal to manufacture a clone of this movement because the patent has expired and it is relatively easy to make them as it is all reverse engineering, nothing new has to be designed. The catch is putting a trademark on them. When someone puts the Eta trademark on the clone, they become illegal. I would guess the same is true for 1530/70 base rolex movements because they went into production in the late 1950's/early 1960's but I doubt there is enough demand for a 'perfect clone' of the 1530/70, 3035, or 3135 except for the replica market as shown by the new 'China 3135'. Otoh, if this particular 3135 clone movement did not have the rolex trademark on it, it might not be illegal today...I do not know for sure if it has 'timeed out' yet but they came out around 1986/87. Sooner or later, parts makers might go into making reversers, winding rotors, hair springs, balance wheels etc for various rolex movements because RWC is cuttng off the parts supply. It basically depends on the popularity of rolex watches but replacement cases, dials, and bracelets seem to have given vintage rolex 'Frankensteins' a new lease on life. At the present...a donor watch can be purchased for a movement or a complete set of parts without spending a whole lot of money but as time goes by this may change to where it would be profitable to manufacture most of the unsigned internal parts as generics. It seems even today there are no problems with making generic replacement parts for the various rolex movements as long as they do not have the rolex trademark on them and many movement parts are available for the 1530/70, 3035, and 3135 such as train wheels, stems, mainsprings etc. Same goes for case parts and bracelets. I bet before long (if not already), that a top of the line vintage 'Supercase' and 'Superdial' with properly stamped numbers/letters and genuine movement will be very, very hard to identify. From Business Analysis Made Easy.com: How Long Is A Patent Good For? The quick answer to "how long is a patent good for" is 20 years. However, that answer has to be qualified for several reasons. The clock starts when you first file your patent. You have put the world on notice that this is your idea and you are claiming exclusive privilege to it. If your patent is awarded 2 years later, then you have 18 more years to exploit the value of your idea without outside competition. Or more accurately the patent give you the legal right to challenge those who may be infringing on your patent claims. The Provisional Wildcard The 20 year patent is a non-provisional patent. Another very short term patent is available called the provisional patent. It is good for a year. It is also a very informal patent. It only requires a short description of your idea, with the factors that make it unique. There are generally no claims or drawings required. It is a placeholder. It is like you are telling the world that you have an idea that you want to protect, but you don't have the time or money to develop a full patent right now. How does this affect the patent life when you get the full patent? The clock starts when you first file, even when the first filing is a provisional patent. Summary The question of "how long is a patent good for" has been answered. Even though the general answer is 20 years, you must understand when the clock starts clicking. This information is specifically for patents filed in the USA.

In the March 27, 2012 post titled '1530 Component Authentication'...a Noober Goober is worried about a $2 1520 case screw (while the fact that his case is rotted out does not bother him at all), progresses on down to where one of the more experienced posters says: "With the technology we have today, I feel that the fake watches and dials "they" make are so good that it is impossible to differentiate them from the ones made by Rolex." The obvious questions that jump out (to me anyway) are: What case/cases is he talking about?...Yuki? Phong? or ?? What dial?...Yuki? IG44? or ?? Maybe something we have never seen...or passed as genuine? Are some of 'our' cases and dials really this good? I kinda doubt it. Would some of them fool a 'VRF Expert'? Probably. Are some of these "Experts' actually this green behind the gills and really not the 'Experts' they think they are? If so, where are the 'Expert Experts?' who really know the answers? Imho...cases might not be 'easy' to make (considering machinery startup cost), but it seems to me that they would be very easy to produce 100% same as genuine because vintage dials/hands show signs of aging and have radium or tritium and newly made cases do not need this to pass. I have read where some of the 'Experts' were down to spotting the short center leg in the 'E' in rolEx inside the casebacks to determine genuine from replica cases and to me, that is getting pretty damn close. Besides, I think by now everyone understands that the difference between a $600 genspec 316L Yuki etc 1680 case and a $50 316L nonspec 1680 case is all in the C&C settings. Btw, wonder if RWC makes their own 1680/5513/1655/1675/1019 etc replacement cases or farms them out to a specialty shop? The 'digital fakes' post by 'Philip' is very interesting as he seems to know what he is talking about.

Wat'samatter with you guys. Those backtits ain't half bad.

"i've read lots abt josh's 5512,5513, that they're able to take gen parts. i've just receivced mine today and surprise surprise!" Just like Lucy said to Ricky... "You got some 'splaining to do." (dial hole size etc)

I started out with genuine rolex watches 40 years ago and wore them for years without a lot of mechanical problems and everything was Ok. I stayed with genuine vintage rolex and never cared for the sapphire models but as times changed, I was not going to pay $3k to $5k for the same watch I paid $1000 for a few years ago (and sold for maybe $1100) so I got into replicas and never looked back. During the 'rolex years' I got to know a first class rolex AD watch mechanic and learned how to work on them with his help along with help from two other local CMW. This has proved to be a my best 'watch investment' as time goes by. But there is always a catch... Until the 2000's genuine parts were relatively easy to get for most vintage 1030/1530 base rolex but now most USA parts accounts have been cut off while many vintage parts have been discontinued making parts a big problem...another good reason to go with replicas. In the long run, parts can become more important than the product. It seems Europe is no better, I saw this a couple weeks ago on TRF: "... a green 16610LV insert costs almost CHF500 as opposed to CHF70 just a few months ago..."

They should call it the BIG Gulp because it gulps deep water and all your $$. While the 42.5mm TechnoMarine Abyss (about $650US) goes as deep and they only had to fill it with whale snot to make it work.

My lady size 'asian 21 jewel' watches had 8 3/4 ligne Seagull ST6DL in them. Search for a picture of the Seagull ST6DL on the 'net for comparison. If the ST6 is clean and oiled they will keep good time and last a long time.

High quality gold cases are almost always die struck, not die cast. I have seen quite a few fake omega constellation, seamaster, and rolex cases that were cast with porous threads and voids in the main case where the gold did not flow properly although they looked fine on the outside where they had been polished. Many of the bezels and casebacks on quickie gold knock offs are made in rubber molds and do not have sharp detail. Matter of fact, I traded into a fake solid cast gold 18k omega 'Geneve' automatic in June 2003. I put it away without looking inside it until 4-1-2006 (April Fool's Day by chance). It had a 100% fake cast case with a genuine cal 1480 movement in it. The case did not have a separate bezel and the plastic armored crystal pressed down into a machined groove in the case. The screw down caseback looked fine on the outside but was rough on the inside with rough threads on the caseback and case. The guy I got it from gave me a 6694 for it back and he had no idea the case was fake either. No telling how many owners had it without knowing. I used to see simple snap back gold manual wind fake omegas for sale at watch shows along with gold filled cases stamped 14k or 18k but this was the first screw back fake gold omega case I actually owned. I had seen solid cast gold fake constellation cases with fake dials and genuine movements at watch shows but not this type of geneve model. I have seen a lot of die struck solid gold rolex replacement cases and they were all top quality and all originally came unsigned (to be lettered later by a crook of some sort). I paid $900 for an 18k unsigned gold DJ case for a 3035 complete with back and bezel in February 2001 and now the same case is $4215 at StarTime. Back then an 18k submariner case with back and bezel was $1200 and now StarTime has them for $5455!!! I have seen them for less on eBay. There used to be a web site called 'Apples of Gold' that sold Italian made die struck rolex look-alike cased watches under the Geneve brand back before gold prices went crazy. I got one of their submariner style watches in to work on a few years ago and it was made just like the rolex replacement cases except it was made for an eta movement. I have one new die struck prez style non oem spec case left from back then and it weighs 29.1 grams with back and bezel but I do not remember how much a genuine case weighs. This one has the dial opening a little bit bigger than genuine and came with a black diamond dial and eta 2836-2...it accepts genuine case tubes, crystals, and bezels. They were $1200 new in 2001 on a strap...with a prez style bracelet they were $2400...with bracelet and diamond dial/bezel, $3000. I remember the prices because a gold/diamond/watch trader friend had a lot of them back then. Tutone eta DJ with 14k bezel and center links were $750....with 18k bez/links, $900. If there are many threads left on your case, you might run a steel caseback into the case and run the gold caseback down in a steel case and straighten the threads enough to work...providing the threads are all the same. I've done this a time or two. If you can weigh your case...see how much it weighs and post the result.

"Is a genuine 5512 dial the same diameter as a genuine 5513 dial (26mm)? If 'yes' then ass-uming a 5512 dial is also 26mm wide... How does it stay in place with a 26.13mm hole in the case?" After looking at the genuine 5512 case with the 26.13 dial window in the post above, I wondered how this could work with a 26mm dial. SInce I have a DW 5513 case that I got from a member (we both thought the dial window was too big), I put the 26mm IG44 5513 dial on a 1520 and mounted it in the DW case with a 26.0mm dial opening. It works fine. Everything lined up...stem, case clamp screws etc. How can it work with the dial window as big as the dial? The movement is a precision fit in the case and this holds it all in place. The dial might be almost the same size as the dial window but the movement is not...and it is clamped against the front of the case. This is probably why a 26mm dial in a case with a 26mm dial opening using an eta movement and spacer does not work out every time...there is too much slop in the fit and the movement and dial will not stay centered. I measured this 'new MBW 1680' and here are the sizes: lug tip to tip...47.7mm on both sides lug hole center to center...42.4mm on both sides 20.05mm between lugs at 6 20.06mm between lugs at 12 springbar hole size...1.2mm+/- (submariner sb will not go in) case thickness...5.0mm at 3 and 9, also at 6 and 12 case thickness at 3 and 9 including case neck (where crystal mounts)...6.5mm case neck od (where the crystal mounts)...28.2mm dial window opening...25.5mm this case has the O ring groove on top of the case under the inner bezel Inner bezel: id 30.2mm where it presses over the crystal. overall od...35.43mm high...2.03mm I did not remove the insert. rotating bezel: id where is snaps over the inner bezel...35.38mm overall od...39.6mm inner shelf just under the insert...31.1mm thickness...2.2mm The DW 5513 case is machined inside to accept genuine parts although the outside is out of spec as far as crystal, inner and outer bezel are concerned. The MBW case is closer to genuine on the outside but not very close to genspec on the inside. Imho it is not worth the trouble to install a genuine dial and movement in this particular case. It is a good candidate for an eta 1680 or 5513 though. As I said before this particular case is a lot closer to being a 5513 than a 1680.

"From VRF 5512 PCG" I have a couple questions... Is a genuine 5512 dial the same diameter as a genuine 5513 dial (26mm)? If 'yes' then ass-uming a 5512 dial is also 26mm wide... How does it stay in place with a 26.13mm hole in the case? Maybe I know... Flash back to my DW '5513' case (not made to the same spec as a DW 1680 case)... The dial opening in the DW 5513 case is about 26.0mm (I always thought it was too big for the 26mm dial). So...I get my trusty/rusty 1520 out and look closely at it and the overall diameter is 28.5mm. Fine and dandy. Same size as it was yesterday (you never know). So...maybe the dial just sits IN the opening and the movement seats against the case. Clue...the movement is only 27.1mm just under the dial and is not the full 28.5mm until a few tenths mm lower. May-beee the hole in my DW 5513 case ain't too big after all. Maybe someone with a gen-u-ine 5513 or 5512 knows about the dials/cases and can post the answer. (Dumazz me never paid attention when I worked on genuine sub-mareener watches and now all I have are reep-lick-as's) Q...What goes down on a submarine? A...140 men. Q...What comes up on a submarine? a...70 couples. (my neighbor retired after 20 years on submarines...he told me the joke) Somethin' else... My 'new' MBW 1680 case is a lot closer to a 5513 in spec than a 1680 and the dial opening is 25.5mm. There is a shallow dial seat cut back from the edge on the inside and if you remove this by machining it...a 26mm dial will drop through this case too. The DW 5513 caseback fits the MBW '1680' case perfecto except it does not have a proper gasket groove in it. The caseback from my DW 1680 will not fit my 'new' MBK 1680 (that now seems to really be a 5513 case in disguise) or my DW 5513. The DW 1680 case is true to spec as far as dial and mvt fitting goes. Every time I take my tin foil hat off...I am bombarded with conflicting factoids.

"How about some washers around each of the dial feet? Since there is an endless selection of washer sizes/thicknesses, you should be able to select a pair that provide the exact spacing you require &, unlike gaskets, they will maintain the spacing without compressing when you put everything together." That's a good idea. Since the dial feet are at 6:30 and 11:57 and the case clamp screws are within about 5 minutes of them, it would probably work out Ok as the pressure from the case screws would be close to the dial feet and not bend the dial. There might need to be some support at 3 and 9 too...dial dots etc I also thought about installing a taller hour wheel and cp from a date movement and making a spacer out of an old dial to go under the 5513 dial with hoiles drilled for the dial feet to pass through. The catch then is would the dial foot screws still reach the dial feet? After I thought about it, there is really no need for the dial foot screws anyway as the case clamp screws put enough tension on everything to hold the dial down. The only time dial foot screws are needed is when handling the movement and this particular 5513 dial is a fairly tight fit on the movement. I had to sand the dial feet down a little to allow them to go into the holes in the movement. I'll probably keep this project going and see how it works out since I have gone this far. I need to put a gen spec case tube in the case and stick a no mag crystal on it. If it all works out it will be quite a bit less $$ than a Yuki etc case and a pretty good hollow link 93150 came with it too.

'New' MBW 1680 revisited... I tried the 1520 in the MBW case with an IG44 26mm x .5mm thick 5513 dial and here's the scoop: The dial fits into the dial seat just fine. The IG44 dial that I have is .5mm thick and oem is .4mm thick. The thicker dial is Ok in this project because the movement sits too far to the front anyway. The movement fits into the case just fine. The case screws will need thicker heads to back out against the rail in the groove in the case because of the movement sitting too far to the front. The stem is about 1mm too far toward the front of the case tube and will be in a bind. What can be done? Maybe use a spacer between the dial and movement. So...a 5513 dial with a 1520 is possible but not a drop in. Will a 1575 OPD/sub date spacer work? No, it is too thick. I tried an OPD calendar spacer on the movement with the IG44 5513 dial and the movement is too far to the back and the stem is about 1mm too far to the back of the case tube. The 26.5mm x .5mm dial does not fit precisely into the dial seat relief cut in the case (it is made for a 26mm dial) but this really does not matter as the difference is only .2mm or so. I also tried the OPD calendar spacer with an IG44 26.5mm x .5mm 1680 dial and the movement is still too far to the back and the stem is about 1mm too far to the back of the case tube. The case clamp screws will not fit into the groove in the case either. What's next? With no spacer and a 5513 dial... You might space the dial away from the movement a little bit with a spacer of some sort or a row of dial dots to move the movement toward the back and see how the stem lines up in the case tube. If you use dial dots the clamping screws will flatten them out as you back them out against the case rail to hold the movement so they need to be a little thicker than necessary to start with. Maybe make a dial spacer of some sort keeping in mind that any spacer is going to cause the hour wheel and minute wheel to sit lower below the dial and maybe cause hand clearance problems. What do I think about this case now? It is a pretty good case for an eta powered project.

"I agree with some of the comments above - that is a lot of money to spend on a franken when a gen is not much more. I have put 157x movements into MBW cases (1665 & 5513) &, while it can be done (& made to look quite gen), it is ALOT of work (grinding, sanding & polishing)." I removed the movement and dial from my 'new' MBW Polex 1680 and the dial window hole is 25.5mm. There is a shallow step machined under the dial seat cut back from the 25.5mm window opening to 26.25mm. The dial is between 26.0mm and 26.2mm in diameter and shows signs of having been roughly ground down to fit within this 26.25mm step. The od of the etaclone 2836-2 is 26.0mm with a 28mm brass spacer. The od of a rolex 1520/70/75 is 28.5mm. The id of the MBW case where the movement mounts is 28.7mm The rolex movement drops into the MBW case just fine. I used a 1520 with a 26mm dial and it is pretty close to fitting this particular MBW 1680 case. When you add the date works and spacer thickness of a 1575...the movement might sit too high in the case to be workable...but maybe not as I have not tried it. It looks like this case is pretty close to accepting a 1520 and genuine spec 5513 dial. I may give it a try sooner or later.

"To be honest this new and old MBW/MBK thing confuses me as I had an old one as a 1680 with lug engraving 5513 which I converted to a 5513 and then uses a newer case engraved 1680 which I used to build my 1680 and modeled after my gen and all the parts swapped over no problems so I don't think there is a difference." I just looked at my 'new' MBK 1680 Polex L382301 and it has an eta signed etaclone 2836-2 of some sort. If they used the same 2836-2 movement with the dial spacer still attached and day/date guts removed in the 5513...the cases are internally the same except maybe for the dial window as the 1680 dial is 26.5mm and the 5513 is 26.0mm iirc. The mvt/dial is still in mine so I did not measure the dial window diameter.

"I have emailed Yuki for several months now and so far he's never had them in stock. The gen ones that come up on ebay and VRF that I have seen so far have been too much $ for me." Maybe JMB would crank out a few for sale. The spring can be made from a pocket watch mainspring etc and the O ring is easy to find. I just looked at the Yuki site... $100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hellofuzzy.

"I estimate your 1680 franken would cost $3800-$4200 not including a servicing for the movement and a gen white dial instead of red. add a red dial and you might as well just buy a gen 1680 white with the same amount." I agree. Imho if you get close to this much $$ in a project 1680...go for a genuine white letter 1680. I posted a few times about the 1680 project I stuck together on the cheap but it ain't much of a trophy. It looks Ok and runs fine though. Here is approximately what it cost: no hack 1570/75 movement with 'Mk I' dial and hands from a rotted out 1680...got it in a trade = about $900 DW case...from another trade = around $100 including tube and crown, not much of a case (not gen spec) but the mvt/dial/case tube all fit fine and it was cheap c/o mvt + mainspring = about $25 (I did it) drill lugs (me) aft/mkt springbars, hoods and cheapo hollow link bracelet with fair clasp...$40 or so Comments: As everyone knows by now the DW 1680 case is not made to genuine specs. The bezel is a spring wire affair and the case is 'pot bellied' like a DJ or over polished submariner...not flat sided. Gen spec crystals will fit the case but not the inner bezel. It is well made, has a good finish, repels water, and is perfect for an everyday watch that might live a rough life. I had a slightly used Yuki 1680 case a couple years back and it was just fine but I traded it away on a 1655 project. I looked it over carefully and it was very well finished. When I read they cost $34, smoke shot out of my ears. If this is true, there is no way I could pay $500+ for one now. I have a new 'L' serial number MBW 1680 now but doubt I will put the 1570/75 and dial in it. It would probably not be much trouble but the DW 1680 case with 1570/75/dial is worth about as much as the same watch made with the MBW case because most of the value is in the movement and dial. The dial in the MBW does not have dial feet. It looks pretty good. The numbers etc between the lugs are not nearly as good as the Yuki case I had or the DW case. In order for it to pass casual inspection the numbers would have to be seriously scuffed like the MBW 1680 case that FxrAndy posted about a couple months back. I have a red 1680 dial from IG44 and it is about as good as any non genuine dial I have seen. I would go with one of these in place of genuine and save a lot of $$ on a 1570/75 red sub project. Maybe someone who has put a 1570/75 in an MBW 1680 case can tell what had to be done.