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Having done the franken route with gen movements back in the 2006-9 period, I've definitely quit that path. I built a 5508 with case and dial from NDTrading and a not quite correct 1520 movement from an Air King. I paid $880 for the AK and surprisingly it came with 7835 bracelet with 571 ends- whoppee! I spent $2500 putting the watch together including a service in there. I picked up a couple of gen T-16 crystals in the day for $100 each or so- gone are those days! I could work on making sure that the watch is WR, but I just don't see the point. I do have an older AK with a 1530 movement which would be correct for the 5508, but I haven't gotten around to swapping them out. The older AK with a gold plated case- maybe I paid $1000-1100. I just don't remember. Second watch is a 1803 watch in SS. Picked up a 1556 movement on the bay with a silver day and date wheel for a good price, a redone white dial with silver stick markers and got a 16000 DJ case that Phong modified to accept the 1556 movement. A white dialed 1803 in SS. I love the watch- it flies below the radar. I'm wearing it on a 93150 and call it the Sportman's Day Date. Once again I spent around $2500 putting the watch together. For all around beatability, I like my two DJ frankens- a 16014 and a 16013, both with 2836-2 swiss movements. There are WR tested watches and are great at $500 each

I wan to share some helpful information while we are talking about dealing with MQ, Rubywatch, etc. Because I consider you all my friends here for how generous you have been with information and help. Especially people like Automatico, JackFlash, and others (forgive me if I didn't name others who help me a lot). Here is my way of paying it forward.... When making purchases with Vietnam dealers, I had a lot of problems with how to pay. Most of them will not take Pay Pal. In fact, none of the ones here we mentioned will take Pay Pal, at least for purchases over 400 or 600 bucks. When you wire money to them, be absolutely sure you have their complete First, Last, and middle names. In Vietname, even if you have the SWIFT code perfect as well as the Bank codes, etc... if you write their name different in any way, the banks in Vietname will do a "soft reject" of the money. MQ, RubyWatch, or whoever you are sending money to in Vietnam will not be able to get the money. In most countries, if you accidently put the last name as first name correct, the banks will still transfer the money to the recipient. But Vietnamese Banks never release the money unless you get every part of their name perfectly, regardless of having perfect SWIFT and BIC codes. You will get your money back but your bank that sent the wire transfer will charge you another 80 dollar fee or so. This happened to me once. MQ was actually easy to do deal with for me. I sent MQ Western Union and it's easier for Vietnamese merchants to pick up their money from Western Union. But if you don't make your wire transfers perfectly, it will get rejected and cost you 80 dollars or so on top of the initial fee you paid to wire money. American banks are scumbags so our wire transfer fees are much higher than in Europe so maybe this is not a big deal for a lot of you. This is why I'm so [censored] that NDTrading no longer exists. She is in California and used to sell the Vietnamese made Rolex cases and dials. I don't know if she accepted Pay Pal or Credit Cards but I'm 100% sure it was easier to pay her that the merchants who are physically in Vietnam like now.

Using the 2 links, the 3 cases of gen vs vietnam vs ts-station are slim sides. RWI 6542 case study - TS Station rep and the vietnam high end case - Replica Watch Info (replica-watch.info) Chrono24 Rolex Vintage GMT-Master Ref-6542 Tropic Steel Bj-1957 for Price on request for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24 MQ and NDTrading has the same case for 6542. The sides look like cartel's $278, but with proper lug hole positions. MQ has better bezel, caseback and crown holes. I'm strictly comparing the sides. MQ Rolex Set Case GMT Ref 6542 Stock #CASE-REP (vintagewatchesmq.com) NDTrading ND Trading Enterprises ndtradingcorp.com, Vintage Rolex Dials and Watches

MQ sides are fatter, less sharp than RWI's 2 comparison and example on chrono24. I honestly believed NDTrading had the best case. View end of lugs, from side angle. But I also seen a few fat lugs on genuine listings. Rolex Vintage GMT-Master Ref-6542 Tropic Steel Bj-1957 for Price on request for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24

That's a good question. My friend thinks that NDTrading morphed into MQ. We bought a 16800 dial from him around 1-1/2 years ago maybe Khoa Minh <ndtradingcorp888@gmail.com <mailto:ndtradingcorp888@gmail.com> we sent the paypal money to <mailto:muahangmy4u@yahoo.com> We paid $110 less than MQ wanted for a similar dial. Draw your own conclusions and shop at your own risk- I make no guarantees. BTW, when I bought the dial and case from NDTrading in 07 or so, I paid maybe $800 for the case and $200 or so for the dial. Built a 5508 with a 1520 movement that came from a 5500 AK. But that was back when Natalie was running the show and she was in California.

Does anyone know if NDtrading is still active? I emailed them without response for 6542 case.

I think you are onto something. If China was pumping these out, I feel like they would have trickled into the TDs, Helenarou, Raffles. Instead we get things like the BP Factory approximations being sold. I have a different theory. Go back 15yrs or even more. I believe that the “Vietnam” versions/parts WERE the ultimate counterfeits that probably made a handful of people rich. The OG Frankenstein’s that made it through auctions successfully, etc. Things were low-key for a reason and even if they came out of China???, the trickery and large $$$$$$$ returns kept it underground’ish. As time went on, thanks to forums like this and VRF and general Internet expansion the jig is basically up. Remember characters like Orchi and when NDTrading hit eBay? That was sort of the turning point in my mind. That brings us to 2021. While you will always have “purists” or pi55ed off people who paid $$$,$$$ for a genuine vintage that never leaves the safe, or got scammed In the early days— I think most people just want the Aesthetic of the vintage Rolex with the Rolex logo on the dial. I have attended snobby GTGs and the Frankens are starting to show up. There is no attempt to deceive, and most people are truthful about the origins of their non-Rolex-Rolex. Most people are accepting. To hell with those who aren’t. 10yrs ago I used to obsess about crown guards, bezel inserts, dial text. (Things that only really matter in macro photos or under a loupe). Now, I stumble across cool dials that while not 100% accurate are simply nice to look at! Same with cases and inserts. Build/Buy what appeals to you, to the aesthetic you prefer. None of us are fooling anyone wearing our 6542, 6538’s out in public. I am all for Franken-Frankenstein’s these days. If I saw a 6542 in public I would ask them if they know “Phong, Ruby, or MQ” and watch their expression. 😉😃 So Vietnam/Vietnamese is just a label to differentiate the closest counterfeit vintage parts and not necessarily the actual origin source.

I did manage to buy a 16800 matte dial from NDTrading a couple of years ago- it wasn't Natalie whom I had dealt with around 2008-9 when I was building a 5508. It appears that the response came from Vietnam and I was able to pay for the dial with Paypal. My friend that I was buying the dial for claims it was MQ's email address. We did get the dial- paid $250 and it was a fairly decent matte dial until my friend went and had it relumed with blue chromalite! If you go to the website and pick out a part and contact seller, who knows if you'll get a response- maybe you explain that you're on this forum and are building a watch. We all know that the lawyers can't shut down a vendor over in Vietnam. Of course I also wonder how Phong has managed to stay out of trouble after all of these years.

"At 74 years old you’d think I’d give it up." Never give it up! "You’ve been around long enough to remember. I bought the bezel in 2011 or 12, but not from ndtrading. The vendor was Mark something, like Mk. III or something. Or maybe I’m confusing the name with the bezel. A Mk. II, or Ml. III bezel." I do not remember who it was either. I am sure the aftmkt suppliers could make replacement bezels as good as yours with no trouble but they continue making mistakes for some reason. The virus has closed us down around here and I saw where they are keeping the Smoky Mountains closed through April 30. I can see the Smokies out of our back windows, I'm about 15 minutes from the mountains and 30 minutes from the National Park. Do Not feed the bears...unless you want to be bear food.

Hey Auto. We were coming through your town this month, but the Coronavirus closed down the Smokies. You’ve been around long enough to remember. I bought the bezel in 2011 or 12, but not from ndtrading. The vendor was Mark something, like Mk. III or something. Or maybe I’m confusing the name with the bezel. A Mk. II, or Ml. III bezel. I was asking because I’m thinking about selling the watch, because I never have worn it, and I have something else in mind. I’m loving these VR movements. Serviced a couple with good success. At 74 years old you’d think I’d give it up.

A while back I got a 16800 matte dial from NDTrading. I did it via email. I was doing it for a friend and I/we sent the money via paypal to an address that my friend swears is MQ's. At any rate we got the dial. Natalie is long gone as far as I can tell.

We've talked about them at length. Tons of good information here: https://rwg.cc/search/?q=ndtrading

Hi guys, I'm planning a trip to Saigon, Ho Chi Minh City soon and would like to checkout some aftermarket Rolex vintage parts/watch shops to source a couple of parts and also to keep an open eye. There is not much information about these aftermarket Rolex watch shops, since they are enlisted as fakes. But I would still like to see them in person, and perhaps get a franken or two project to start with. I tried to google as much keywords, but mostly leading me to only MQ's, Phongs (US), NDtrading (US), and another site running by Phong's son. So far, i've only managed to attain Minh Quy's address through his websites, but I also heard about others like dung_chrono on eBay who has a physical shop according to the VRF that called him out, and another Tony Watches? I messaged dung_chrono but he sad due to eBay's sensitivity to trade outside the web's perimeter, he isn't willing to disclose his location. I would appreciate if anyone has any information as to where I can find dung_chrono's shop, Tony's and perhaps some other I should also look at. Thank you M

I built a 5508 about 8 years ago, NDTrading case and dial, various other parts and a 1520 movement out of an Air King. While the 1530 would have been the correct movement, the 1520 worked fine. Only gen parts were the crystal and the 6mm crown, everything else was rep. As I recall, I spent around $2500 building this rep. It's hard to source gen parts for a 5508- they're scarce and expensive. Now days I'm more inclined to go the less expensive route and avoid the Rolex movement and use a good swiss eta. Aging of the rep parts can make for a nice build and when you're in the $500 range, I find it just as satisfying. This cartel 5513 was a fun little project- shaved the crown guards and filed down the case between the guards and installed a 702 case tube and crown. Drilled out the lugholes and now it's a nice little beater for $300. Movement is the dg2813 and it's doing fine. Of course it helps when you can do most of the work yourself- all of which I learned hanging around here and on the other rep forums.

Eight years ago I built a 5508. Case and dial was from NDTrading- Natalie who is no longer around. I put a 1520 movement in there which isn't correct- should be a 1530, but it fit and of course they're basically the same except for the beat rate- 18k vs 19.8. This build ran me around $2,500. The only thing I need to do is maybe have some bevels put on the case and maybe then soften them to give the case some age. You don't say where the dial feet are on your dial- 1030 dial feet are different from the 1530 dial feet. If you go with the 6536-1, you might try to put a 2846-2 in there- parts for 1030s are getting scarce and it's a 60 year old movement. Even the 1520 parts are getting hard to come by- Rolex hasn't made that movement in 26 years. Also, I don't think I've ever seen a 5508 watch with the red depth rating.

Look around for a solid NDTrading dial, or see about picking one up gen

The 1st is junk. The 2nd looks good, but I cannot tell you whether it is worth $350. You might compare to similar gens & top end Asian dials like MQ, Phong or NDtrading. Be prepared for sticker shock though. Thx! Will offer 25 dollars, hope the seller accepts

The 1st is junk. The 2nd looks good, but I cannot tell you whether it is worth $350. You might compare to similar gens & top end Asian dials like MQ, Phong or NDtrading. Be prepared for sticker shock though.

Did NDTrading close down?

I have a MBW 1665 SRSD with ETA and would like to swap to a better dial. I have looked for a Yuki and NDTrading, but they offer only for 1570 movements. Are there any good DRSD dials for ETA?

Those are 2 different dials. I cannot tell you the source, but try NDTrading, Phong & Yuki.

NDTrading used to carry a nice 6610 dial with OCC text. I'm not sure if it's still available, and I can't seem to access the website.

I found quite a few 6263 dials that have metallic sub-dials but I couldn't find a gen watch with such sub-dials. These dials are usually quite expensive (between 350 and 750$), so I'm surprised the sellers would ask such high prices if these dials are indeed so wrong that most experts can tell from far away. Has there been a 6263/6265 with such metallic sub-dials (see pic below)?! Also, why has noone made a reasonably accurate dial yet? Yuki's dials have the rlx crown way too high (and it's also the wrong shape, it kind of looks like a canal street rolex) and the Rolex printing is not as thin as the real one. Phong's dials are slightly better, but their printing is also not thin enough and the daytona printing looks off as well (and all that for close to 500 - ridiculous!!). NDTrading has pretty decent dials, but they are not genuine and they are asking over 3k for a dial - that's straight up profiteering.

Respect Alterego! What a story! You are on the right path, gathering parts for a 1016 build. What ref # is your DJ case? The dial is the most essential part of the built, the other half is the case of course. There are at times very good deals for genuine, even NOS 1016 dials, way below the mentioned high prices! Whoopy's dial was one good option. The other most affordable is Yuki. Then you have NDtrading or MQ, their dials are the same, I suspect NDtrading dials almost all come from MQ. ND do not respond to contacts so you may have better luck with MQ. Prices are higher. Diameter of Yuki's dial is 28mm, that is what the genuine dial diameter is. Dial feet are genuine positioned at 30 and 57 minutes. Start your build maybe first with a Yuki dial if you don't find any better, then keep looking for a genuine dial or a better refinished one and have then swapped later. Best of luck!

Personally, I used a Whoopy dial in mine. It's great, but unless someone has one in their parts box, you can't find them anymore as Whoopy sold through all of them. Right now the most reasonably priced decent 1016 dial is Yuki's. I like the NDTrading dials a bit better, but according to others that have tried contacting them, they have been difficult to reach as of late. If you are OK with a SpaceDweller dial, the ingodd44 is great. I would stay away from the eBay dials. The lume on most of them looks like it was applied by a 3rd grader.