I came, I saw, I wasted a few hundred dollars

[BlackKnight]

Just wanted to write up a brief goodbye to you all who have been a wealth of knowledge and experience in my brief time in the land of reps.

After nothing but disappoinment in the watches I have purchased, I have decided to move away from reps. I still love watches though and will continue my addiction in the land of Seikos, Citizens et al.

My experience has taught me that if you want a decent watch, don't buy a rep. I know, there are good ones and bad, and the world of reps can be hit and miss. BUT!

My Sinn U2 from Joshua, bought with a genuine ETA 2836-2 is actually an asian clone. The hack mechanism has stopped working and I've just noticed that the crystal isn't flat with the bezel, it protrudes at one side.

My AP ROO RBII was just crap, the screws on the back twisting off at the slightest turn. I had to epoxy them back on.

And the Rolex DSSD I got from Joshua - well the DG2813 is I know not a great movement, but it just stops working randomly. Just not accepatable. Luckily that is getting a new 8215 transplant soon so it might get saved, along with the HE valve getting the epoxy treatment.

So, keeping it short, to all those newbies who are wanting to take the plunge, a word of realistic caution: don't want to worry about getting your watch wet? Don't buy a rep. Yes I waterproofed my Sinn U2 and it holds well, but I just can't trust it. Want to be sure your watch is keeping accurate time? Buy quartz or eco-drive/kinetic. Just know what you are getting yourself into before you splash out hard-earned cash on a watch because it vaguely looks like the real deal.

Once again, thanks to all, especially OffShore for all his help, and I wish you all the best.

[wat44]

I think the better advice for noobs is to do LOTS of research before buying

I have 20 odd reps and they are all fully functional and have had very few problems along the way

Im not sure who the trusted dealers are here, so I wont mention any by name, but there are a few excellent ones out there

[RobbieG]

The problems you speak of are common. Some enjoy the chase of it, others either don't right away or do in the beginning and tire of it. I am in the later category and eventually got to the point where I didn't want to settle for anything but the relative perfection of genuine pieces. I haveno interest in the snobbery of them, but rather the precision of the details mechanically and fit and finish-wise. But if you have a genuine love for watches there is no reason to leave. In fact there is every reason to stay.

Many of us are also genuine collectors and some exclusively. So let me wear Lani's ambassador hat for a moment and say that if you love watches - rep or genuine, there is no better place in terms of knowledge or a better group of non-snobby people to interact with. So stick around. You don't have to buy reps to hang out with us...

Also you might consider adopting a strategy I have employed with great success over the years: Use reps as a sort of training ground for gens you have interest in. If you think you love a watch, buy a rep of it first and see if it really suits you before buying the gen. If it does, sell it and buy the gen. If it doesn't sell the rep and move on. It will actually save you money, not waste it. If you buy a gen and find out you don't like it the likely hit when you sell it will be more than a thousand. If you get the rep and flip it the loss will be less than a hundred in most cases. Wors like a charm. I discovered a love for the Yachmaster, the GMT Master, Datejusts and Day-Dates, the Planet Ocean, the Aquatimer, the Kairos, The Vacheron Malte series, and many others I'm sure I'm forgetting this way which led to great gen experiences. And I saved a lot of money on others not listed here by trying the reps and realizing they are not for me such as the Big Bang and ROO to name two. Food for thought.

So stick around, if nothing else Offshore still has a lot to teach you about boats!

[OSRep]

Hey BK! Sorry to hear you move away from the rep world with a bitter taste in your mouth. TBH I think you were just unlucky. I am definitely a noob and have had nothing but great experiences with all the reps I have bought. I think patience, research and a bit of common sense go a long way in the rep world..... If youre new it is very tempting go crazy and buy a variety of reps from dealers just because they are cheap versions of the real deal. But alot of members put alot of effort into modding, fixing, servicing etc etc various reps - and these are the reps to go for!

I guess if you want a "perfect" watch with water resistance and peace of mind then yeah reps probably arent for you, however even with gens I generally take mine off if im anywhere near water........

Anyway GL

[offshore]

BK,

Sorry to hear that your rep experience has been less than fulfilling, however you have a passion for watches, and their repair, so you can still find the best information on the Net right here.

I too, no longer dabble in reps, yet I have remained around this place for some years as I truly believe in the level of knowledge and comradeship within these walls.

So stick your nose in from time to time, say hello, and benefit from the incredible depth of expertise here.

You are always welcome, there's always a spot at the bar!

Offshore

PS, We haven't even started on the boats bit! (Or diving)

[TeeJay]

I've never really had any major problems with reps, and I only ever buy cheap stuff. I don't buy expensive, and I don't buy from forum trusted dealers. My results have been satisfactory, of course, YMMV... Of course, I must echo my bro's comment here:

The problems you speak of are common. Some enjoy the chase of it, others either don't right away or do in the beginning and tire of it. I am in the later category and eventually got to the point where I didn't want to settle for anything but the relative perfection of genuine pieces. I haveno interest in the snobbery of them, but rather the precision of the details mechanically and fit and finish-wise. But if you have a genuine love for watches there is no reason to leave. In fact there is every reason to stay.

Many of us are also genuine collectors and some exclusively. So let me wear Lani's ambassador hat for a moment and say that if you love watches - rep or genuine, there is no better place in terms of knowledge or a better group of non-snobby people to interact with. So stick around. You don't have to buy reps to hang out with us...

Also you might consider adopting a strategy I have employed with great success over the years: Use reps as a sort of training ground for gens you have interest in. If you think you love a watch, buy a rep of it first and see if it really suits you before buying the gen. If it does, sell it and buy the gen. If it doesn't sell the rep and move on. It will actually save you money, not waste it. If you buy a gen and find out you don't like it the likely hit when you sell it will be more than a thousand. If you get the rep and flip it the loss will be less than a hundred in most cases. Wors like a charm. I discovered a love for the Yachmaster, the GMT Master, Datejusts and Day-Dates, the Planet Ocean, the Aquatimer, the Kairos, The Vacheron Malte series, and many others I'm sure I'm forgetting this way which led to great gen experiences. And I saved a lot of money on others not listed here by trying the reps and realizing they are not for me such as the Big Bang and ROO to name two. Food for thought.

So stick around, if nothing else Offshore still has a lot to teach you about boats!

There's way more to this place than just watches

[Watchmeister]

Sorry to hear of all your travails. I come upon these disaster scenarios every once in a while and have a couple of thoughts. First, if you have a continuing interest in mechanical watches and how they work - stick around. I have spent a good amount of time on the gen forums and have to say the basic knowledge base here is exceptional. Definitely take a breather or permanent hiatus from reps. If you do decide to dip your toe in the water again than buy one directly from a trusted member. My own experience has been better than yours with probably one in ten having a real problem. But most of my purhases were years ago and I suspect quality control was better.

[opti]

I understand your frustration mate, sometimes you just ask yourself why you bother.

ps. can I get your Sinn

[wombat247]

Rep collecting isn't for everyone.

[By-Tor]

There is no one truth here. Some reps are bad, some can be very good.

It's like saying "all women are bitches". It's not true... only about 70% of the ones that you meet in the night clubs are. The ones that come easy aren't necessarily the best. You gotta spend some time and effort on finding the good ones.

I don't see Citizen and Seiko watches competing against the reps. I think those belong to the different world... reps can be good looking, dishonest bitches but Citizen and Seiko are for people who settle with dating an ugly, nasty woman (because she's reliable and cooks good food).

[gtanak]

Hey BK! You just got here and now you're leaving? The rep world has loads to offer my friend... Dun be discouraged by a few hiccups. I still remember back in March i ordered a total of 4 reps. Of which i only have 1 now. 2 were sent back for a refund and another sold off. Yeh i was on a 50% hit rate and was feeling quite discouraged as well but i told myself to keep reading and searching for a dealer i could trust, i can depend on... And i finally found one. My opinion is most of the dealers here will not bat an eyelid about selling you a watch, but not many will want to hear from you if you want an exchange, refund or replacement parts. I believe any dealer that doesn't have the patience to reply your emails promptly, provide reasonable aftersales support do not deserve a single cent more from you.

Take a break my friend, stick around and read things that interest you. One day, you will be ready to dive right in again and we'll all be here with open arms!

Cheers

TanG

[Mickey Padge]

Don't buy your watches from the "trusted" cartel dealer twins, unless you want to pay higher prices and receive a blind drop ship watch without any QC, simply be prepared to have to post stuff back to them, I did it enough times in the past before I learnt my lesson

Buy from the smaller dealers who will take time with your order, and personally select your watches, possibly even sending pictures of the items before delivery if you request them. QC is hard to find in the rep world, but it does exist, and what's more surprising is you can actually end up paying less for a watch than you would from one of the larger dealers, but actually receive a better watch, and fantastic service too

Stick around, I am sure if you like watches you will find your way back here anyway. Rep or gen watches, or anything else for that matter, this is still one of the best forum communities you will find......

Cheers!

[mastrmindalliance]

Don't buy your watches from the "trusted" cartel dealer twins, unless you want to pay higher prices and receive a blind drop ship watch without any QC, simply be prepared to have to post stuff back to them, I did it enough times in the past before I learnt my lesson

I guess that is the dichotomy of rep collecting. Out of thirty or so reps the only two with problems came from ETZ promising QC.

I probably shouldn't say it out loud but my luck has been good with Josh. every other of the aforementioned reps came from Josh. The only watch that went back was one i buggered up myself trying to remove the hands (for no good reason heh). and when i asked for replacemnet parts he asked me to send it back - to be fxed for free - and he EMS's it it back to me all fixed up - for free.

All of them work flawlessly till this day.

Sorry to hear about your unluck OP.

[wisrep2010]

The problems you speak of are common. Some enjoy the chase of it, others either don't right away or do in the beginning and tire of it. I am in the later category and eventually got to the point where I didn't want to settle for anything but the relative perfection of genuine pieces. I haveno interest in the snobbery of them, but rather the precision of the details mechanically and fit and finish-wise. But if you have a genuine love for watches there is no reason to leave. In fact there is every reason to stay.

Many of us are also genuine collectors and some exclusively. So let me wear Lani's ambassador hat for a moment and say that if you love watches - rep or genuine, there is no better place in terms of knowledge or a better group of non-snobby people to interact with. So stick around. You don't have to buy reps to hang out with us...

Also you might consider adopting a strategy I have employed with great success over the years: Use reps as a sort of training ground for gens you have interest in. If you think you love a watch, buy a rep of it first and see if it really suits you before buying the gen. If it does, sell it and buy the gen. If it doesn't sell the rep and move on. It will actually save you money, not waste it. If you buy a gen and find out you don't like it the likely hit when you sell it will be more than a thousand. If you get the rep and flip it the loss will be less than a hundred in most cases. Wors like a charm. I discovered a love for the Yachmaster, the GMT Master, Datejusts and Day-Dates, the Planet Ocean, the Aquatimer, the Kairos, The Vacheron Malte series, and many others I'm sure I'm forgetting this way which led to great gen experiences. And I saved a lot of money on others not listed here by trying the reps and realizing they are not for me such as the Big Bang and ROO to name two. Food for thought.

So stick around, if nothing else Offshore still has a lot to teach you about boats!

Very well put and echoing my experience as well as approach!

cheers

WR

[JKDDUDE]

The other thought would be just to buy from the members. I trust all of you a whole lot more than some huge warehouse in who knows where. A couple good things happen, you can see the watch (in detail) you are getting. You know you are not getting a lemon (most likely ) and if you buy in your own country, you don't have to worry about customs. I have gotten great watches by following this pattern -- Just my .02...

[Jkay]

When going to a "chain" restaurant with a family of four to eat re-heated crap costs $120 with the tip ... and a train wreck of a movie like the one I was forced to see tonight is $60 with snacks ... do you seriously think a loose hand on a $150 watch is reason to lose heart and call it a day?

Seriously?

Get it fixed or learn to fix it yourself. It's part of the fun. On the other hand, if a minutely proud crystal edge makes you want to give up ...... perhaps reps aren't for you.

We all know that Gens never break and come perfect from the box every time.

[deltatahoe]

We all know that Gens never break and come perfect from the box every time.

deltatahoe

[panerai153]

Just wanted to add my sentiments along with the other good folks on the forum who have chimed in. First of all like some folks said, reps aren't for everyone.If you are a perfectionist, and you want and "out the box' perfect watch, you will be disappointed with reps.

My love affair with reps has waxed and waned a couple of times over the years. I bought a bunch several years ago, sold them all, had nothing but gens and then about a year ago, got back in with a Rolex 1680, sort of bought on a whim, and haven't stopped since. Like robbie G said, reps are a very good training ground for gens. It's a lot cheaper to try out a noobmariner sub than plunking down 7k for a new one, or 5-6k for a used. If you don't "bond' with it, it's a lot easier to stomach a 100.00 USD loss than a 1k loss. And believe me, outside of one or two gens that I bought at a really good price, I lost money on every sale. Pretty much the same is true of the reps, but the differences in dollars was a whole lot less.

As to reliability, of all the reps I have owned, and the number is pretty high, I have only sent one back, a DSSD from ETZ that was exchanged right before they disappeared.There has been a lot of frustration with reps, even though they were reliable runners. Almost every one of them has had crappy lume, if they were lumed at all! Almost every one that I intended to keep required a movement service, as even the genuine ETA's came in dry as a bone and dirty. Some have had loose parts that needed to be tightened up such as bracelet screws ,casebacks, etc. but nothing major.Now that brings us to the point of reliability of genuine watches. Quite a few of my gens have had to make a trip back to the factory, usually with a long wait and a pretty big price tag. I had a Chronoswiss Tora that went back to Germany twice within 2 years, and it was gone almost half that time!. A Breitling Chronomat that was serviced three times in about 9 years to the tune of 300-400 USD each time. My Ocean 7 Ploprof that's been back twice for a sticky bezel problem. Most of the Rolexes I have owned over the years have been rock solid, but they do require service and even back in the 1980's a trip to the RSC was about 250-300 USD and now it's double that.So unless you are going to buy genuine "Throw away" watches that you can wear until the battery dies, throw them in the trash and buy another one, the gens are going to need to be serviced at some point in time. So from my standpoint, the genuines are usually going to be perfect"out the box" come with a warranty so that if you have a problem in the first year, the service is free,.After that they are for the most part solid reliable watches providing you buy from reputable companies with a history of producing good quality. Reps on the other hand are not perfect "out the box', seldom can be made to be perfect and may suffer from reliability problems, although not at the rate that you have experienced. Still for the most part reps bought from other members or dealers with reputations for standing behind the sale, are good investments. you just need to do your "due diligence" before you press the "submit payment" button on their website.

I hope that you will hang around and contribute to the forum. There is more watch knowledge here than on any of the genuine watch forums that I frequent. And certainly more sense of community and camaraderie.

[StormTooper4]

I hear your pain Dude, my advice is to move on to manual wind PAM's.

[ChipSlap]

There's no shame is digging on Seikos and Citizens. I'd trust my OM or SKX009 at the beach a hundred time more than my UPO.

There's a place for reps as well as gens on my winders, but just like deciding which World Cup team to support, that's a personal chioce.

[swdivad]

Sorry to hear about the dramas you've had so early in the game... Yes, it can be frustrating at times, but my experience is that it's much more rewarding!!

We all know that Gens never break and come perfect from the box every time.

FYI, A friend of mine just bought a $25,000 AP Rubberclad... He got it home and it wasn't working properly (major issue). He brought it back to the AD and they told him they'll have to send it away... could take 3 months to get it back! They finally agreed to a full refund after he had to raise his voice and cause some commotion :whistling:

[KB]

It's a shame when I see these threads, it's like some rep watch God has randomly picked a member and just kept hitting the smite button.

If members didn't write of these probs I simply wouldn't know of them, I have over 20 watches (none of which have ever seen a winder) that sit in my watchbox for Months on end and yet I can rock up and give any one of them a shake or a wind and they are ticking away like new.

And yes that also includes the El Cheapo's and the 'second hand came half way around the world' watches.

Ken

[wat44]

same here, ken!

wat44

P.S. the local seamstress is adjusting the suit... she was impressed with the fabric. alterations cost half as much as the suit! (im considering buying 2 suits next time - sizes next to each other to get the right pants and jacket - costs twice as much, but in the overall scheme of things....)

[Intrigued]

I'd just like to echo a theme which has been mentioned in this thread - the people and the level of watchmaking expertise and information here make this place a "must visit".

I have never worn a rep in my life, but the information in these pages has allowed me to enjoy my watch hobby (largely, modding Seikos) at a much higher level than would ever have been possible without it - I come to the site often and always find something interesting and useful.

Keep logging in - I cannot think of a better site for anyone with an interest in watches.

Cheers,

Andy

Edited July 11, 2010 by Intrigued

[Jkay]

FYI, A friend of mine just bought a $25,000 AP Rubberclad... He got it home and it wasn't working properly (major issue). He brought it back to the AD and they told him they'll have to send it away... could take 3 months to get it back! They finally agreed to a full refund after he had to raise his voice and cause some commotion

Yes ... I guess sarcasm does not readily translate across languages. I was not really suggesting that Gen watches are trouble-free and perfect. I was implying that the original poster might find that the World of Gens has it's own troubles, and with a much higher price tag.