Reps certainly do have a short life span...

[kramerica2]

Every now and then, a rather new member posts a topic about failing reps... Now it's my turn.

My last rep died today and it's the one that has lasted the longest out of all my reps, only 1.5 years young. Funny thing is that it was also the cheapest...

My first rep died after a month. Bad luck I thought, so I got another one right away. It survived 6 motnhs. In the meanwhile, I got the POrikka which is the one that survived until today, and a SOSF that died after 1 year.

So, from my short experience (4 reps):

Avg. Life Span - 9.25 months

Min. Life Span - 1 month

Max. Life Span - 18 months

Avg. Price - 250$

Total Price - 1000$

I know some of you will dismiss that as bad luck. But comeon... 4/4? No correlation between price and quality?

I also know that many members here have reps that keeps going after 3 years and more, but maybe in those times the factories had better QC?

Now, my dilemma is simple - should I get another rep for ~250$ and keep spending that amount every 9 months or so, or should I just spend the same amount ahead of time and get a nice gen, that would have a warranty, and would probably last at least 10 years if not more than that (My last gen was an old Seamaster that still works after more than 20 years).

[nikki6]

Why not get your reps serviced? They have a life time of approx 4-5 years solid after a proper service!

That way you don't have to keep buying new reps, or go all the way to a gen!

Sixx

[modelizer]

Why not get your reps serviced? They have a life time of approx 4-5 years solid after a proper service!

That way you don't have to keep buying new reps, or go all the way to a gen!

Sixx

+1

Well said Sixx!

[Whatever123]

Or get them repaired - maybe it's just a quick fix...

[kramerica2]

I've considered a decent service before, but I decided not to for many reasons:

1. Price. If you include the shipping and the service, the price is close to that of a new rep.

2. No warranty. It could fail even a month after a service, so money totally wasted.

3. Out of country risk. I don't really know anyone that will deal with reps in my country. It's either totally amatures or serious watchmen that will only deal with gens. Therefore, I have to send it out. Most watchmen I talked to, told me they won't accept out of EU/US jobs. Even if someone would do that for me, there is always the double customs risk.

Looks like that at current situation, gen is the way to go...

[baglc1]

look what you could get with 24months warrenty, a Seiko 5 divers watch @ $125.

[kbh]

Most dealers offer a warranty. The only ones I've had die have fortunately been from Joshua and he's always repaired or replaced them at no charge other than the shipping cost one way. Three chronos I've had serviced for around $100 each and they are all over a year old and working perfectly.

[Martyd3]

Why would you think a serviced movement would die after a month? Even if it did, most watchmakers stand behind their work.

[freddy333]

kramerica2 - you might want to read this about overhauls.

[Scruffy]

If you are in Tel-Aviv, try Sionit - 43 Ben Yehuda 03-5288358. When I was there in June, he had some lovely IWC, JleC classic gens dating from the 50's and might also have had a few reps...

Edited November 29, 2010 by Scruffy

[maxman]

I have purchased 14 reps sense I arrived here almost two years ago. I have only had one serviced and it wasnt even a full service,just a little oil and regulation. Most of mine are A7750's and they are all running well. I guess you could say that I've ben lucky. But when you look at the rep community at large and the many purchases the members make each year....well there really are not that many complants, again when you consider the many purchases. I guess you have been unlucky, and that sucks,sorry. I wish you better luck on your next purchase,rep or gen.

[automatico]

"Why would you think a serviced movement would die after a month? Even if it did, most watchmakers stand behind their work."

That's a good point.

I do my own work and here is what I have seen:

Most swiss eta watches are Ok as long as the movement is fairly fresh. When they do stop running, they are usually worth repairing.

If an Asian DG/CH/Sea Gull will run for 3 months...they will usually run for 2 or 3 years. They have a lot of 'crib death' though.

The DG/CH Miyota clones are a PAIN to work on. Sea Gull ST16 is not as bad. Seagull ST6D is easy because they are made in the 'traditional' manner...the autowind assembly screws onto the base movement and the date works are simple.

I do not work on chronographs so this has nothing to do with chronographs.

Mechanical chronographs = too much junk crammed in too little space imho.

When a movement dies early, the first thing to look for is any sign of water in the case. Sometimes it will not show on the dial or crystal but on the stem and winding/setting parts. If it drowns once it will drown again so find the leak or keep it dry.

Many Asian movement watches come new with what I call the 'DY DY' Disease (pronounced die die). 'DY DY' = D-irt-Y and D-r-Y.

The easiest cure for a dead Asian movement is a replacement but who knows if the replacement is any good?

If you have an Asian movement cleaned, it will cost too much but it will usually run for 3 to 5 years...or until it gets dropped or drowned.

You can swap an Asian movement out for a Swiss eta but unless the Asian movement is an 'etaclone' you will need to do quite a bit of extra work...sometimes involving glue, broaches, spacers, date wheels, and a Quaalude or two.

Quaalude! Now that's a Blast from the Past...

Last one I saw was in the late 1980's and it had been made in a 38 caliber bullet mold.

[maxman]

Ludes totaly rocked dude,awww those were the days

[plaifender]

why are you not getting your watches serviced?? Francisco is VERY reasonable (he charged me less than 100usd for a full service of an A7750). Hi-jack here in spain is also very reasonable. Not sure about others The fact that your watches stop, is because you´re not taking care of them. They don´t come from china under the best of circumstances anyways.. so for you to expect them to, is kind of ridiculous. Your rep should last for years to come with proper servicing. maybe even a lifetime....

[maxman]

why not getting your watches serviced. Francisco is VERY reasonable (he charged me less than 100usd for a full service of an A7750). The fact that your watches stop, is because you´re not taking care of them. They don´t come from china under the best of circumstances anyways.. so for you to expect them to, is kind of ridiculous. Your rep should last for years to come with a proper service. maybe even a lifetime....

I agree plaifender,with proper care they can last many years.

[Prsist]

Every now and then, a rather new member posts a topic about failing reps... Now it's my turn.

My last rep died today and it's the one that has lasted the longest out of all my reps, only 1.5 years young. Funny thing is that it was also the cheapest...

My first rep died after a month. Bad luck I thought, so I got another one right away. It survived 6 motnhs. In the meanwhile, I got the POrikka which is the one that survived until today, and a SOSF that died after 1 year.

So, from my short experience (4 reps):

Avg. Life Span - 9.25 months

Min. Life Span - 1 month

Max. Life Span - 18 months

Avg. Price - 250$

Total Price - 1000$

I know some of you will dismiss that as bad luck. But comeon... 4/4? No correlation between price and quality?

I also know that many members here have reps that keeps going after 3 years and more, but maybe in those times the factories had better QC?

Now, my dilemma is simple - should I get another rep for ~250$ and keep spending that amount every 9 months or so, or should I just spend the same amount ahead of time and get a nice gen, that would have a warranty, and would probably last at least 10 years if not more than that (My last gen was an old Seamaster that still works after more than 20 years).

My friend I am in the same boat and i agree with you. Had a norikka PO last for 1.5 yrs and sold it. Out of my 5 other reps (1 is brand new) only my IWC is still running (1.5 yrs). I have researched this ad nauseum and came to this conclusion: I now factor in a service in all my purchases: $125 for non chrono and $225 for a chrono. As stated previous mosy movts are bone dry and do require a service.

[Ronin]

While not the norm, I have a 14yr old Miyota 8215 powered Submariner that is still running, never serviced, just now showing signs of dry/gumming.

I have had great luck with the ETA based stuff as well.

You might want to consider the TimeZone watch school. The knowledge from this class has armed me with what I feel I need to maintain my reps. Worse case at least the R&R of movements.

If you get the point where you can are are comfortable R&Ring (remove and replace) movements keep in mind:

Brand New 21J's (DG2813's) are $15.00

Brand New Swiss 2836's are about $125.00

Edit to add: IF you are a chrono guy with A7750's, get them serviced and use the chrono sparingly.

Food for thought.

[plaifender]

Listen to RONIN and Prsist...

I know for a fact that you can get your watch serviced in spain for between 50 and 100 euros. Repgeek has a lot of other modders as well. Fororelojero.com (francisco is an admin there) is also a great resource(if you speak spanish). Getting your watch serviced can actually be quite affordable.

No reason to not have your favorite watches serviced though. It just doesn't make sense. These asian replicas are ticking timebombs as far as mechanics go. Get it serviced and you won't have to worry about anything going wrong mechanically.

[panerai153]

Listen to the ones here who have gone through all this before you. GET THEM SERVICED. First off, these are not genuine watches. Rep factories have zero quality control, no matter what the dealers tell you. the folks building the watches are not watchmakers, they are parts assemblers. If a little dirt gets in the case, they drop a part on the floor, it goes straight in the watch. They aren't going to take the time to disassemble a movement and clean and oil it properly. maybe if you get a fresh ETA it will be OK, but maybe not, as thye probably buy bulk movements, not the individually sealed ones. If it's runnng a slow beat 2846-2, I can guarantee it's as dry as desert sand.Those movements are either removed from old watches, ot they were bought NOS and have been sitting on a shelf somewhere for 20 years.

As persist said, factor in the cost of a service when you buy. otherwise, buy cheap genuine watches which are more likely to arrive serviced. Treat your watch just as you would any other piece of precision machinery. When you buy a car, you have the oil changed regularly don't you? I would expect that if you ran your car with the same oil that came in the engine new, and you never checked the level, at some point in time, you would be on the side of the road with a dead engine. Watches are the same. they need to be clean, dry (no water) and lubricated to operate properly. Assume the rep you purchase is one out of three, probably dry, but also likely to be dirty and not lubricated.

[ubiquitous]

Most gens only have a 1 or 2 year warranty; it's good, but keep in mind that if you have to exercise that warranty, turn times are not great with most companies. Expect to be without a watch for 6+ weeks - several months depending. The upside is that if you need to have any case refinishing, parts replacement, etc. getting that kind of after sales support isn't an issue for a gen watch. With some of the reps, like the A7753, parts are proprietary and may require the purchase of a new watch (or used on the secondary market).

Something else to consider- Once the manufacturer's warranty runs out, you're in the same boat anyways as maintenance, repair etc. will be out of pocket. Service centers for some of these brands will gouge you on cost of parts, repair and service... What's worse, if you pay to have a certain part replaced on the watch *you* own, you're essentially paying them to keep your old part as you'll never get it back. Doesn't sound like a big deal until the Blancpain service manager tells you that your auto-wind rotor has to be replaced to the tune of $2200 because it has a 22k gold weight fixed to the rim. So in this case, you'd be paying them $2200 to keep your old rotor with a precious metal/commodity on it that should rightfully be yours. Sometimes you'll have no choice but to pay to have perfectly good parts replaced, as they will not service the watch without it.

For ETA based watches, it's best to have an independent watch maker do the work anyways. For the in-house brands that hold all proprietary parts, you're forced to stick with their service.

[freddy333]

To add to Ubi's response - I have a friend who owns a gen gold IWC Portafino & 1 of the pushers fell off & got lost. (Yes, these things even happen to multi-thousand $ QC'd gens). It has taken more than 2 years of phone calls, emails & letters to get the watch repaired, finally resulting in IWC requesting that he send the watch back to them, which will add an additional 3 months to the already lengthy total.

The moral is that while some gens do service their older watches, actually getting the watch repaired is more of a rep-like experience.

[automatico]

"The moral is that while some gens do service their older watches, actually getting the watch repaired is more of a rep-like experience."

You hit the nail on ther head.

Horrible service and No Parts For You! is exactly why I am a fan of replicas.

Yesterday, I got all revved up and thought I would wear a genuine watch for a few days so I dug out a 14010M Air King to wear (no date to screw with). I looked at it and thought about the rUSA 'NP-FU' policy and put it away. Next, I dug out my Frankenstein 1520 powered '1016'...I looked at it, thought about 'NP-FU' and put it back in the drawer.

So I put on a genuine pawn shop Movado Museum that I paid $40 for and awaaay I went.

The quartz MoMu is one of my all time favorite watches.

Why?

No whack! whack! whack! quartz second hand.

Good contrast between dial and hands.

Always on time (more or less).

No date to screw with.

Sapphire crystal.

Light and thin.

EZ to repair!

Reliable!

Cheap!

My 'swiss' Movado...

At the bottom of the dial it says SWISS MOVADO QUARTZ.

Inside the caseback it says CHINA.

The bracelet has CHINA stamped on the clasp.

The $20 eta movement smiling back at you says SWISS MADE.

Therefore making it your average 'swiss' watch.

[CzechMate]

"The moral is that while some gens do service their older watches, actually getting the watch repaired is more of a rep-like experience."

You hit the nail on ther head.

Horrible service and No Parts For You! is exactly why I am a fan of replicas.

Yesterday, I got all revved up and thought I would wear a genuine watch for a few days so I dug out a 14010M Air King to wear (no date to screw with). I looked at it and thought about the rUSA 'NP-FU' policy and put it away. Next, I dug out my Frankenstein 1520 powered '1016'...I looked at it, thought about 'NP-FU' and put it back in the drawer.

So I put on a genuine pawn shop Movado Museum that I paid $40 for and awaaay I went.

The quartz MoMu is one of my all time favorite watches.

Why?

No whack! whack! whack! quartz second hand.

Good contrast between dial and hands.

Always on time (more or less).

No date to screw with.

Sapphire crystal.

Light and thin.

EZ to repair!

Reliable!

Cheap!

My 'swiss' Movado...

At the bottom of the dial it says SWISS MOVADO QUARTZ.

Inside the caseback it says CHINA.

The bracelet has CHINA stamped on the clasp.

The $20 eta movement smiling back at you says SWISS MADE.

Therefore making it your average 'swiss' watch.

Pardon me for reviving this rather old thread, i am just curious:

What is rUSA NP-FU policy?

Thanks for explaining it...

[ExtraExtra]

I have so many reps pass through my hands. One of the first reps I have is an AP Jumbo. I still have it and it runs no problem. Majority of A7750 I have had did not have any problem until 3+ years. Lately, one arrived and after a few days it went dead. The problem is always the same - the movement is full of dirt and dry. So if you really like the rep you have, get it serviced and it will last longer and keep good time.

[automatico]

CzechMate:

I sent you a message.

"Yesterday, I got all revved up and thought I would wear a genuine watch for a few days so I dug out a 14010M Air King to wear (no date to screw with). I looked at it and thought about the rUSA 'NP-FU' policy and put it away. Next, I dug out my Frankenstein 1520 powered '1016'...I looked at it, thought about 'NP-FU' and put it back in the drawer.

So I put on a genuine pawn shop Movado Museum that I paid $40 for and awaaay I went."

Update:

A couple days ago I took the 1520 out of the F-stein 1016 and may put an eta 2846 or something in it. I do not want to wear any watch with a genuine 'np-fu' rolex movement in it.

Imho, replicas can be seen as one of three types...

(1) 100% Asian made with '21 jewel' or 'etaclone' movement.

(2) Asian case, dial, bracelet, hands etc and swiss made (usually eta) movement.

(3) Frankensteins...but I will no longer wear one with a genuine rolex movement in it.

I have a DW 1680 case coming for a 1570/75 with genuine 1680 dial but I will not wear it if I put it together.

Last time I was in a relax AD was 10-1-96 when I bought a steel Daytona to flip.

I wore genuine 'r' brand watches part time for 35+ years.

They finally made me mad enough to quit.