panerai153 Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Back in August of 2012, I embarked on what has ended up being a long, expensive and torturous journey, my goal was to build a nice believable 6542 White Dial GMT ( If you believe the White dial 6542 ever existed). Here is the link to the original thread from back in 2012. http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/150062-6542-is-it-the-executive-suite-or-mailroom-or-somewhere-in-between/ This watch has really had it's ups and downs, and probably more downs than ups! I can't remember all of the problems, would probably have to go back and read all my emails and PM's to get and accurate picture. But to list a few, movement problems which required a complete tear down and replacement of parts, including a balance and gen tube and crown. while this was being done we replaced the dial with an ingod44 White dial and a ubi Roulette datewheel. this was all sone over about a two month span ,Oct.-Dec 2012. then in the early spring 2013, the bezel fell off and had to replace crystal to fix the problem, and of course a couple of trips to get other things done,which included a trip to The Zeigmeister to relume the dial and hands, as the Ingod44 dial had no lume. Everything rocked along good through the summer, and fall, then a few weeks back I was removing the watch from my watch box and the bezel fell off again!! I sent it to mymanmatt who fitted a new crystal and got the retaining ring on tight. When he removed the crystal, it looked like it had several cracks at the base, may have been tight and between installing the crystal and retaining ring, it cracked. Matt and I agreed that this watch may well need and exorcism rather than a watch repair person, as it seems like with it, if anything could go wrong, it has. At the moment it's running fine, keeping great time, and the bezel is tight and Matt says it's water resistant. Not that i'm going to swim snorkel or dive with it, but it's nice to know that it will withstand water from washing my hands. I haven't tallied up what I have invested in this watch, I'm scared to even think about it!! But like all projects like this one, it's not for the faint of heart!! Plan a budget, and then be prepared to spend a lot more before it's over. I replaced the old rep Oyster bracelet with a genuine Jubilee, I know it's not the bracelet that was standard to this watch, but it was and option with 1675's. It's very comfortable and light. Well, that's my story, thus far. Here are a few photos I took several days ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
send2toonie Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Thank you for sharing. May I ask what case you used for this build? Also having learned from this what would you do different if you had to do it again, or what tips can you give someone looking to build one? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Beautiful build! The white 6542 is on my list of must have watches... one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
droptopman Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 You got it back It looks outstanding. Matt is a genius. I hope you are able to enjoy this stunning piece, especially considering the amount of time, effort and $$$ that went into it. This is my grail of grail watches and I am continuing to research how to approach this build. I appreciate all the information and help you have given me and after seeing these pictures I think this trek will be worth the investment. That lume shot is inspirational. Cannot express how much I love this piece. Just gorgeous. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Looking good , a lot of heartache and $ down the road it would seem. But AH in the end. :clap2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archierocks Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 stunning be proud to have that in your collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Love this pic. It caught my eye during the wristies. I know how much goes into these '42s & this perfectly typifies what is possible if you have the testicular fortitude (& cash) to stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Boy it's nice when a project is finished. ...........or seems finished. Trust me, they never are. This one looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denimhead Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Very Nice indeed! It's a great feeling when these long term projects get finished, only to be replaced by another one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlf Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Looks glorious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted March 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Thanks guys, It seems like this one has been "Finished" about 3 or 4 times!! I hope that it's going to be a "good little watch" for a while and give my wallet a break.It makes me feel good to get positive comments from you guys who are the true Vintage Rolex experts.And Freddy, a special thanks to you for the kind comments, as you are the true Zen master of the 6542! Just to answer a couple of questions that were posed by one of the fellows here. What case: This is a Ming Quy Case from Vietnam. If you follow the link http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/148940-more-6542-how-about-this/ here are some photos of the case. Like Freddy and others have said, just because it comes from Ming, and it's expensive, doesn't mean it's always correct. This one had the tube misaligned, and it had to be re drilled and retapped. i couldn't send it back, because I bought it from another member who never tried to use it. There are other cases out there that will work, just need to do some reading and research to decide what you want. Another question was what would I do different and what advice would i give. hard question, because hind sight is always 20/20. Lots of times you don't anticipate trouble until it's right on top of you. I started this out with a Puretime 6542 which i was hoping would be a good donor watch, it wasn't. All I ended up using was the movement, nothing else was compatible. So from that probably skip that step and try to find a 2846 movement and convert it to GMT. or use a DG3804 GMT movement. If you are not concerned about using a slow beat movement, then an ETA 2893-2 would be my movement of choice as it's a real workhorse GMT. Another thing i would do in retrospect is have the movement serviced up front , before putting it in the watch. This alone would have saved me a trip to the watchmaker and a month or two of lost wrist time. I did not plan this build as carefully as I should have, it should have been more thought out ahead of time. Things like changing the dial, and then having the dial lumed were things that had they been done at first would have saved a lot of time and another trip. I believe that another thing that you need to do, if you can't do all the work yourself, find someone who has the skills and time to put everything together. Good planning will take care of a lot of stumbles down the line. A good example would be the dial and hands. If the watchmaker doesn't do lume work, then you need to send the dial and hands off and have them relumed while you are gathering all the other parts for the build. When you do this, everything is ready when you need it, and you don't have to do a bunch of backtracking. Remember one thing, when you are dealing with building modded or franken watches, just because a part looks like it will fit or it's "Supposed" to fit doesn't necessarily mean that it will. So be prepared for some setbacks and hopefully with good planning and a whole lot of luck, you will end up with a really nice watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 This sure is a gorgeous piece. I would love to add a 6542 to my watchbox. It's definitely a top 3 for me. Enjoy this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Very cool, I've stayed away from these because of how complicated they are to build, congrats on finally getting it sorted out! Beauty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaresma7 Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Looks really good!! Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero_Dave Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Very nice build and I Love the Lume-Shot! I'm learning myself (the hard way) builds are Never within the 'planned' budget. Trips back-n-forth for work to be done, happen (plan on a few). But that is part of the Fun isn't it! Dave... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
send2toonie Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Some projects go wrong over and over and over. I'll work on them a while, put them away for a while, then start again. This is the story with my 1655 project, 18k aftmkt case 'DJ' project and a few others. I figured they would be long term projects and they are. If and when they are finally done, it will be worth the time and effort (Upside)...but not all the wasted $$ (Downside). Much like a 'money pit' house remodeling project but on a small scale. Your 6542 is exceptional in execution and classy in appearance. A lot of trouble but a fine job all around. 'Quickie' project go wrong too... I tried to put a quickie project together last week and things kept going wrong as usual but I was determined to finish it...'1680' with 1570/75, Yuki dial, DW(!) case. The movement c/o went Ok except for two things: Dropped all the train wheels etc on a carpet after cleaning them. Lost a bridge screw (found it). Finally got it all together and when on the home stretch discovered the dial feet were a little bit off causing the edge of the dial center hole to rub the hour wheel on the 3 o'clock side...also putting the date a hair too far to the right in the window. I bent the dial feet a little bit a few times to try and move the dial over to the left but when I pushed the dial down on the mvt it just straightened them back out. It did move the dial far enough to stop the rubbing but it is not as it should be. I put it together as is and decided to live with it. It's always something. Maybe the next one will be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Yes, some projects seem to be cursed from the start! The 6542 builds have come a long way since freddy333 blazed the trail. I built my first based on his write-up, and using the old Silix case. There was a lot of work, modifications to the case, and sourcing parts that made the project so difficult. It was much 'easier' building panerai's because everything was saved on file. Since then, as we learn more we want more. Having the gen style crystal mount and date window in the proper spot (or 1mm off of the correct 25-115), better shaped cases, bezels, inserts, and reasonably priced small GMT hands and brevet crowns have all come to be. There is a "less expensive" build available, but it is labor intensive. And as time goes we will discover more and make it easier yet. A member asked me about the 6542 recently. My reply - (as of today and subject to change tomorrow!) : "cheap" is a relative term! The last one I built was made from the cartel vintage Explorer http://www.ttw888.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4&products_id=6588 I ground the crown guards off, thinned the case a bit, opened the lug holes, and beveled the edges. I bought an aftermarket Submariner bezel from Ebay, and beveled the top and bottom edges to be GMT style. The plus side of the cartel watch is that it is the genuine style crystal/retainer mount, and you have the movement and date wheel overlay already setup for the case. Adding the red/black date wheel lettering is that much easier to do. I also used the dial it came with because the date window is in the correct Rolex position, and I refinish the dial myself using the water slide decal. It came out very nice, and is the one in my signature. I have on my desk the 'Tiger' V2 case to build another 6542. The V2 also uses the pressed on crystal/retainer as does the genuine. I haven't started it yet, but the case looks a bit better for shape and thinness, and it has no crown guards. The bezel is the Submariner style coin edge and needs to be beveled on the upper and lower edges to be GMT style. No need to buy a bezel. The usual case mods will be done to it. I use Ken at Rafflestime http://www.rafflestime.com/servlet/StoreFront and Clark's (his store is on Ebay) for most of my parts. If you choose to, make certain to mention RWG and me to Ken or Gary Clark in your email. It should help in pricing a bit. Rafflestime should have the V2 case, but you must be specific in your description of what you want. There is a language barrier to be aware of. You want the 'latest' case with the gen style crystal mounting using the retainer. I also use Rafflestime for the hands, he has them for both ETA and 21j movements. The small GMT 4th hand. The 6mm Brevet '+' crown (make certain to get the crown tube that fits the V2 case, should be the 3.0mm) This crown needs to be modded a bit, as I posted a while ago http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/140709-6mm-brevet-crown/?hl=%2B6mm+%2Bbrevet#entry1046879 Ken also has movements and bracelets. I use Clark's for the 25-116 crystal. The only one better is a gen, and it's too close for me to call. Gary is very inexpensive. I get the 20mm Rolex springbars from Gary as well. He has hands for the ETA only, the Rolex 'Tudor' uses the ETA movement. And you know where I get the insert! ======== As soon as things settle down around my place, I'll build that Tiger case 6542. And we'll all see what we learn about that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogladio Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 ^^^Wow, really looking forward seeing that JoeyB! These old GMTs sure have a special allure about them. Have promised myself "no more vintage Rolex builds" - but thi might just be what makes me break that promise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 This is the case set I have on my desk waiting for me to have time to build it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/7924-5508-minor-deffective-watch-case-with-big-crown-fit-2836-2-movement-/190991492969?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c77fae769 The retainer is cut too big. I got a 1675 retainer from Clark's and the bezel does fit it. The rehaut is very good, the price is very nice, and all the case needs is the lug holes opened up, bevel the top line, and some thinning of the case from the bottom line. The bezel needs to be beveled on both the upper and lower edges. And it's made to fit the ETA 2836/2846 and DG3804B movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted March 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thanks Joey, I believe that you answered a lot of questions that folks had about different case options, bezels, etc. Obviously there are a few different ways to "Skin the Cat" some harder than others. What's nice about folks here sharing information, it makes the next guys build easier because he doesn't make the same mistakes the first builder did, that is if he reads and does his research!! I didn't mention this in the intro as I was talking more about problems and solutions rather than what was used. This insert which is absolutely the best that you can buy, and I had several in my hand including the one from Ming Quy which came with my case set, is the one that JoeyB makes. It is by far the best available. If you build a 6542, you definitely need to get one of his inserts for your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 Thank you for the kind words. I didn't even know what a 6542 was, or what it looked like until I came here back in 2008 to look at vintage GMTs at RolexAddict's urging. We were then spending most of our time on another site, but this one had the most, and best vintage Rolex threads. RA was working toward the 1675 and I was trying to come up with a 'correct' dial with no 'Date' on it. There were none back then, except for genuine dials. freddy333 was in the middle of his 6542 when I saw it, and I knew that was going to be my grail watch. Up to that point the 'Pepsi' GMT on a Jubilee bracelet was my least favorite. That changed immediately upon seeing freddy's build, becoming my favorite. That's what happens when you see one done 'right'! Everyone needs to decide what they want for themselves, from all genuine, like freddy333's white dial, to the all replica with a 21J movement, and everything in between. Using gen parts calls for less modding, easier fit and accuracy. Using rep/aftermarket parts, like I do from Rafflestime, saves money but requires modding to make them look more like the gen (like the 6mm Brevet crown cited and linked in my earlier post). While that's the part I like, 'making a silk purse out of a sow's ear', some may not want to. There are very few people who have seen a gen 6542 in person, and fewer still who sold or worked on them some 60 years ago. I met one retired watchmaker who was quite reluctant to even look at my replica, but once he did was very complimentary, particularly about the gilt on the dial. It's nice to know that I guessed right! But most of us have nothing but pics on the internet to go by, and most of those pics are recent, not 60 years old when the watch was new. That's all freddy333 had when he blazed the trail. And all I had when I followed freddy's lead. As I said earlier, as time goes on, and the replica factories improve accuracy, our builds improve as well. It is something to look forward to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 Great thread. Will be bookmarked for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 An update on the Tiger case bezel: Inside the coin edge. where the insert sits, it is not cut flat, as needed for the 6542 perspex/baklite insert. It is cut cone shaped as are the metal inserts. So that small ledge needs to be made flat, and that looks to be difficult to do. The Silix case needed the same mod, but had more metal to work with. When I get some time, I'll see if it can be done. If not, it's back to buying expensive bezels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 just when you see a path forward, somebody drops a tree tight in the middle of it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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