Caveat Emptor

[Legend]

Guys,

This is a general cautionary heads-up thread. What I am about to post may seem like basic common-sense, and yes it is. I just think that in light of the recent occurrences on the boards, it is time to remind everyone to be alert when trading watches or parts online

In case you do not know, RWI has been hit with a recent spate of "get payment-and-vanish" sellers, profiteering sellers, sellers with dubious or misleading descriptions of items, and even straight-out scammers. You can find some of the offenders in the RWI brig section.

Please exercise due diligence when doing trades or purchases here. I have noted a few of the RWI "no-saled" or "incacerated" members registering at RWG lately. By default, it takes a VIP membership status to sell at RWG. Do not be mislead by the VIP status of members here. Look instead at their track records. In the absence of one, exercise the necessary caution, especially if the post count is low, and if the deal looks too good to be true. There is credence to the time-tested adage: Buy the seller first. 

Be careful of sales posted by new members with no tagged pictures, and be wary of new sellers insisting to be paid only via paypal gift (ok family and friends!) or bank transfers or western union. These payment methods offer no recourse for the buyers if and when a deal goes awry.

Beware the succulent bait that hides the hook. 

 

   

[spankster23]

Well said, and thanks for the reminder.  

[Nanuq]

Well said, Legend.  Thanks for watching out for us! 

[Beachcomber]

Very wise words indeed. Thanks for posting this, it's amazing just how many people don't trust their gut; I for one was scammed for over 5k and am still paying for it. Funny thing is I couldn't do anything about it, money was gone in a flash via bank transfer.

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[436NR]

This is an example of what separates this forum from all others! Not only the kind, helpful, and sharing nature by its members but also the accumulated wisdom that this place offers. Thank you Legend! Wise words for here and everywhere.

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[Mike on a bike]

I'd advise a trip here where some guide lines are set and discussed about buying selling https://rwg.cc/topic/177124-buyingselling-read .

As legend has stated a lot of bad actors about the rep world so take 5 minutes out and read above , could save you a bundle.

[seafoam]

Always good to "refresh" this common sense stuff once in a while.  Thanks for keeping us on alert Legend

[Mendota Explorer]

It is really sad that all it takes is a few bad actors to completely ruin the play. Probably 99% of us are nice and generous people, trying to enjoy a fun hobby together and share resources with each other. When this stuff happens it makes it more difficult to do that.

[mule play]

Excellent comments. That is why I request feedback from every buyer. I wish to maintain a matchless reputation here and feedback on both sides of the trade is so important. I do use caution with no/low rated buyers as well. The # of posts is a key element as well. Many members don't have a lot of feedback, but are post active. On one occasion I did ask a seller for references.  We must not forget that option either.

Edited October 16, 2015 by mule play

[gasebah]

Problem is: How can you build that reputation as a newbie if nobody sells to or buys from you. I had that exact problem recently, and asked all members with former sales to me to give feedback. But if you are really a new guy.....

[theiwcroo]

Thanks for posting Legend!

[KB]

Just a point; You can pay a WU transaction with your CC and get the normal protections your service provider offers.

Ken

[Mike on a bike]

Just a point; You can pay a WU transaction with your CC and get the normal protections your service provider offers.

Ken

This is good to know, never us WU so not in the loop on it.

[KB]

You will need to do so at there online site, I'm not sure how it would work over the counter.

Ken

[Legend]

Problem is: How can you build that reputation as a newbie if nobody sells to or buys from you. I had that exact problem recently, and asked all members with former sales to me to give feedback. But if you are really a new guy.....

I agree with you. There is bound to be some degree of mistrust involved when you're buying as a total newbie. What we all need, and what most of us do get, is someone else to give us the first break. Besides feedback, there're other factors that build credibility like post count, membership duration, and reputation points as well. It would be tough for a total newbie lacking in all the above to get trusted. But sometimes, it also depends on how much the seller wants to sell his watch/parts. For many such buyers buying from trusted sellers, they could start by using PayPal gift or bank transfers to buy and build their reputations.

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[Mike on a bike]

Well this has slowly evolved so here it goes as a new guy buy a cheap watch or two 100-150 the seller (and I have done this) more likely to take the risk. (you can always sell later @ minimal lose) Hang around meet the guys once you are know that modded grail piece will be sold to you. This is a game of patience.

[mjmj]

Wise words L. Thanks for looking out for the community.

[508-Fanatic]

 

Does anyone want to buy my bridge? It's genuine! 

 

Thanks Legend, we have to all look out for each other.  If you smell something, say something!

[w4tch3r]

I'll chip in here as a newbie. I spend most of my time on this and other forums reading others' experiences, looking for tips/tricks in modding, figuring out which version of a particular rep is really the best, and spending money with TD's. I'm relatively new to the game. I haven't made any m2m trades on the rep forums because I'm usually too slow to the draw- most of us are looking for the same things, and when that rare item pops up it's gone in a heartbeat. It really has been a PITA at RWI in recent weeks as one after another scammer has come out of the proverbial woodwork to take a few hundred dollars from members- barely worth it in my opinion. The problem is- since I play it pretty quiet- I have no measurable trust with the community despite my sincere interest in the hobby. If I wanted to post a sale, I fear I'd be marked as a scammer in most people's minds due to low post counts. It's kind of a catch 22- when you're a newb- there's a lot of "read more, talk less"  and "don't ask, use the search function" advice from senior members, and now a lot of talk about low post counts- which is what you get when you spend the majority of your time reading. I also see a lot of  "watch out for sellers requiring paypal as a gift" but then see that most TD's don't accept paypal because of frequent chargebacks- another catch 22. It's a bit frustrating from this vantage point. All that being said- I feel like all of the forums I have joined are quite supportive of new members, and most of the longtime active members are generally willing to give us newbs a chance. My two cents in wanting to add to the conversation as the subject keeps popping up.

[panerai153]

Legend as usual has some very well thought out and sage advice. We all need to be reminded of the fact that there are some "wolves in sheep's clothing" about. We who have been around a while have seen a fair number of scammers come and go, some of them have been slick enough to hang around, make a few good trades, post in several forums and generally try to achieve that "trusted, good guy" mantra.Unfortunately, these are hard to detect, usually their true motives are only discovered after several members have been scammed. Of course the most difficult and most disheartening is the long term member who has built a solid reputation over several years, and suddenly "goes rogue" Of times these guys hook quite a few members before they are finally stopped. The easiest of course is a newer member who comes on the forum, has few posts and makes almost no contribution to the board. These sellers are usually looking to make a fast hit ansd disappear, so the list several watches for sale at very reasonable prices, members bite, and the seller gets the funds and disappears. Remember, no matter if you use PayPal gift or regular PayPal, the seller is probably going to get the money, as he will transfer it out of PayPal as soon as it hits, difference is with regular PayPal, you have recourse through PayPal.

To answer some of w4tch3r's concerns, I believe that most of what legend was referring to in regards to sales involved M2M sales, not dealer sales. We are fairly confident that the TD's are not going to scam you, although in the past a few have, but it's rare that that happens.

Here are a few things that I look for when dealing with a prospective seller/buyer. First off is the person a paying member? to me buying a membership in the forum, let's me know that you have a vested interest  in the forum, while this isn't an ironclad rule, as I know that there are a fair number of long time members who are regular and frequent contributors to the  forum knowledge base, who are not paying members. Second, is not so much the post count, but what you say in the posts. Are you making a legitimate contribution to the forum, not only by adding to the knowledge, but also asking solid well thought out questions. I disagree about members telling noobs to "Use the search function". Sure we do, but only when the person asks vague questions that are difficult to answer and or have been asked a million times, such as the famous, "who has the best sub"? Most all of us can remember back when we were noobs as well. Everyone starts from scratch at everything they do, be it a new job, college, learning a new sport or a new hobby. and don't think that it's just noobs that get taken to task for asking questions. I'm probably one of the most senior members here, joined on about the second or third day after this forum started, when a bunch of us came over here from the old TRC which was unfortunately dying a slow and agonizing death. So I've been here a while. A couple of years ago, I was a brand new noob in the AP forum, trying to find out as much info about AP watches as possible so that I could make a semi intelligent decision about ordering one. Well, one of the guys who happens to be and infrequent visitor here happed to read my thread, and basically tore me a new one for asking such a stupid question and not using the search function. I believe that this fellow was having a bad day, coupled with the fact that he spends most of his time on another forum that is not nearly as friendly as this one. My point is, you can get excoriated by someone who had a bad night, just had a fight with his wife, boss, girlfriend, whatever! So my advice to you would be, heed the advice of those guys who posted above me, ask questions, join the conversations, buy a membership, even a month to month VIP is a possibility, and you will be pleasantly surprised at how soon you will graduate out of your "noobship" and be just a regular guy. And by all means, if you make deals in the sales forum, leave feedback, and ask the other party to leave feedback for you. this isn't just limited to sales either, if you have a watch repaired by a member/watchsmith, and you are satisfied with his job, by all means leave feedback. If another member does a good deed for you, sends you a needed part, and refuses payment or a nominal payment to cover postage, please reward him with a positive feedback. We are very big on "paying it forward" on this forum and that's a big reason why this is a great community.

Edited October 18, 2015 by panerai153

[w4tch3r]

Great advice panerai153, thanks for such a thoughtful reply. So far I've been using the forums for the vast knowledge base of users who have been at this hobby a long time.  Many of my questions are answered by using the search function as the same things tend to come up for all of us it seems. I really just wanted to chime in to say that there are folks out here who really enjoy this hobby, but are less vocal in their approach due to being new and not having a great deal of experience to add to the conversation- knowing what you don't know is half the battle in learning.

[Legend]

I'll chip in here as a newbie. I spend most of my time on this and other forums reading others' experiences, looking for tips/tricks in modding, figuring out which version of a particular rep is really the best, and spending money with TD's. I'm relatively new to the game. I haven't made any m2m trades on the rep forums because I'm usually too slow to the draw- most of us are looking for the same things, and when that rare item pops up it's gone in a heartbeat. It really has been a PITA at RWI in recent weeks as one after another scammer has come out of the proverbial woodwork to take a few hundred dollars from members- barely worth it in my opinion. The problem is- since I play it pretty quiet- I have no measurable trust with the community despite my sincere interest in the hobby. If I wanted to post a sale, I fear I'd be marked as a scammer in most people's minds due to low post counts. It's kind of a catch 22- when you're a newb- there's a lot of "read more, talk less"  and "don't ask, use the search function" advice from senior members, and now a lot of talk about low post counts- which is what you get when you spend the majority of your time reading. I also see a lot of  "watch out for sellers requiring paypal as a gift" but then see that most TD's don't accept paypal because of frequent chargebacks- another catch 22. It's a bit frustrating from this vantage point. All that being said- I feel like all of the forums I have joined are quite supportive of new members, and most of the longtime active members are generally willing to give us newbs a chance. My two cents in wanting to add to the conversation as the subject keeps popping up.

And yes, we were all noobs one time or another.

Your "read more, talk less" and "use the search function" perceptions are only partially true.. you can always read, and contribute meaningfully at the same time. Reading and posting are not mutually exclusive activities. Guys who register on the forum, and post questions like "who has the best sub?" and others like these earn the ire of more senior members here because the information has been discussed to death here, and because of the frequent lack of manners of said newbie to do a short self-introduction. It shows a rather cavalier and complacent approach to getting answers with minimal effort and zero desire for interaction with the community.   

Your post here, for example, is already a meaningful one, newbie or not. I, for one, would buy from you or sell to you because I know that I am dealing with a fellow human being with the same interests, and whom I would take a chance trusting for a couple of hundred bucks..

Your reputation and trustworthiness are earned over time, and over contributions and interactions here. There are no real shortcuts but as with all things in life, some do it better and some do it worse. Don't worry, you would one day be an established and trusted member at RWG if you continue to make yourself known and build your reputation over time.  I have faith that you would earn your stripes in good time.  

[Jordanf1]

There's an old saying in this game in particular the "Gen Sales"  and its " Buy the seller" after years of buying Gens , i have my go to people i deal with in the "rep" game i have 1 and he knows whom he is.

" if it sounds too good to be true it usually is"

Daz The Platypus

[KB]

Also pays to read this.... https://rwg.cc/topic/139448-how-to-deal-with-sellers-and-acceptable-expectations-if-problems-arise

Ken

[hambone]

Legend has authored a very wise tale of caution, even though he has not been taken, he does us all a service by excercising due diligence when purchasing from roaming thieves. I know of a few at RWI that got swindled and they were angry of course but also embarrassed to fall prey to thievery. I have always purchased from dealers but if I did buy from another member it would be as Legend reccomends , from a reputable member such as Rolli, as an example of a prudence dictates.

this is a good topic