Die Grosse Fliegeruhr!

[lanikai]

DIE GROSSE FLIEGERUHR

IWC 5002 BIG PILOT

Well, what we have been longing for: The BP 5002 has been released... and rather suddenly and very quietly without fanfare... maybe we'll see more versions in time.. such as the 5004.

I prefer the 5002 for the "vintage" layout..so I for one am happy that they replicated the 5002 first.. although this is not the first replication of this model .. hopefully it is done better as a genuine 5002 was used as sample..

The Original Die Grosse Fliegeruhr ~ B-Uhr

Before I get into the 5002 as a Replication, let's look at the origins of the Big Pilot .. As the Big Pilot was launched as a tribute or "throw back" to the B-Uhr of the 1940'

The Original "DIE GROSSE FLIEGERUHR" - the B-Uhr manufactured by IWC for the German Airforce in the 1940's

The size of the B-Uhr was huge !! 55 mm, the size is due to the fact that the timepiece was worn outside the aviators jacket .. and the Onion crown so large because the aviator used the crown while wearing his gloves,.. and the dial (large) could be read from all angles without hinderance

The B-Uhr movement~

Some of the Houses that produced Military aviators watches.. along with IWC

IWC

A. Lange

Laco

Stowa

Wempe-other smaller houses( Austrian and german stores private makes), varied movts by Unitas and Minerva

In 2002 the IWC Factory produced the 5002 BP .. With it's vintage dial layout and buffalo strap.. unlike the B-Uhr a power reserve was added at the 3 and a date window at the 6

The Replication BP 5002

Vitals ~ Replication

Model : Brushed SS Case, Black Dial, White Markers ( Lume on Hours Indices), Fixed Power Reserve Indicator (Faux 7 days) , Premium Thick Brown Leather Strap with Insignia Single Foldover Deployant Clasp

Movement: Decorated Asian Automatic Movement, 25J 21600bph

Functions : Hours, Minutes, Secs, Date @ 6.00

Dimensions : Diameter 46.2mm x 15.8mm Thk

Weight : 144 grams

Material : 1 piece forged/Engraved case construction, solid 316 stainless steel

Back : Solid Case Back with Detail Engraving on Case (Both Sides - All correct Spelling)

Crown : One-piece Screw down Crown with o ring

Crystal: Sapphire Crystal Swiss Standard Double AR Coated

Water-resistant

The Genuine ~ 46.2 ; 150 grams

I will quote the movement from a review .. I really don't want to just use my own words when in fact it would be plagarism..

"IWC didn't use any movement in it's new Big Pilot, when it came time to choose a movement, they picked the caliber 5011 movement with 7 day power reserve and and date display. This movement is also used in the popular Portuguese Automatic line of watches. IWC recently replaced the 5011 movement in the Big Pilot and Portuguese Automatic with the 51110 movement which increased the rate from 18,000 vph to 21,600 vph. My model Big Pilot has the newer movement."

From: "peters watch"

The Genuine

The Replication .. the hands look very well done, the lettering is sharp ... with a genuine AR (which is rather good on the rep) I believe the dial will look even better..!! The ticks and markers look good.. the font on the PR could be a little thicker (IMO) and yes the DW is sunken rather deeply... but all around .. you decide..

The Crystal

Genuine ... Sapphire convex double AR..

The Replication.... is very good !. however with a "great" AR this dial would SING !! Chief has stated that he is going to be doing genuine "Brand" AR.. the AR on the BP has "heavy HUE" .. so this will not be an issue given a trip to Cali

The Markers at the 12 may seem a little off.. it is the slight angle of the rep in the pic .. they are actually spot on.. the pic can be decieving..(my pic) the fiber at the 8 is in the dial.. it is driving me nutz.. I don't feel ambitious enough tonight ..

Genuine

Replication.. the hands are silver.. it's the lighting.. I tried to "replicate the genuine pics".. the rings in the PR sub are a little rough on the replication .. but good with the naked eye..

The Crown...

Genuine

The Replication.also got the case in the pic.. very nice.. if your wondering about the different crowns.. they are both correct.. below the pic are statement from a genuine BP forum to answer this issue.. and also some info on the movement.. the rep is the 21.6 and the movement of the second hand is as the forum member explains it,.. so it is by nature, due to the size of the dial and Second hand .. a bit jerky..

From a genuine BP forum:

Greg LeVine15-08-2007, 11:09 PM

There seems to be so much confusion (on my part at least) on the difference between the 5002 and 5004 movements on the BP. first could someone please explain the main differences and why one would prefer one movement over another. I understand most of it is personal but don't understand which is truly "better". Secondly, The fish crown issue! what is the deal with this? My crown has a fish or my crown doesn't have a fish. What does this mean and does it really matter. Thank you in advance, your assistance is greatly appreciated. Greg.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

India Whiskey Charlie15-08-2007, 11:43 PM

And perhaps can give some insight. My first was an early 5002 with the fish crown purchased back in 2003 (I think!). Then, I got a 5004 last December. The 5002 movement is rated at 18k beats per hour while the 5004 movement has 21.6k beats per hour. This can help a watchmaker fine tune the 5004 a bit more for a bit more accuracy. Having said that, my experience is such that the accuracy of both is extremely similar even after both watches having been back to IWC for service and regulation. In fact, I have four 5000-based IWC's. Two 18k's and two 21.6k's and see no difference in accuracy between all four. There really is no "better" movement between the two.

Now, as to the crown difference, IWC changed the fish crown to the Probus Scafusia crown when they changed from the 18k to the 21.6k movement before releasing the 5004 models. At the same time, there was a revision made on the crown tube to prevent a damaged that occurred on the original 5002 fish crown. On some watches, the crown tube slid inside the case preventing the crown from screwing-in. When this happened, IWC replaced the fish crown with the Probus crown. As such, some 5002's with the Probus crown may very well be early 18k watches.

With my personal experience, I see no difference in the two movements. Now, had IWC gone to a 28.8k beats per hour, it may have been a different story.

There seems to be so much confusion (on my part at least) on the difference between the 5002 and 5004 movements on the BP. first could someone please explain the main differences and why one would prefer one movement over another. I understand most of it is personal but don't understand which is truly "better". Secondly, The fish crown issue! what is the deal with this? My crown has a fish or my crown doesn't have a fish. What does this mean and does it really matter. Thank you in advance, your assistance is greatly appreciated. Greg.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And YES !! It is a screw down !!!! and the threading is smooooth ... top shape !

The Case Back..

Genuine .. Die Grosse Fliegeruhr... The Big Pilot

Replication .. Good .., very good actually.. we'll see if they are individual serial numbers as others recieve the BP

Rep Movement.. the experts can chime in as to what "Asian Movement this may be"

The Clasp

Replication .. very Well Done !!! .. nice positive snap on closing.. engraving is first rate.. OK it will not be "as" great as the genuine.. but you have to admit it is Well Done !!

Genuine

Replication

Genuine

The Rep

Strap .. I was suprised at how well this was made considering the past Pilot straps.. it is not what will stay on the rep.. I didn't put my HK's on since you want to see the replication in all it's Glory !!

And of course the Lume.. pretty Good.. of course we gauge everything to the Master.. Z .. but as far as a rep.. the shutter speed was not even a half a second as you can see by the second hand..

In Summarizing the BP 5002:

After a very long wait I am not dissapointed.. even if this is V-1, for the price I am vey happy with this purchase.. Quality is there.. the replication IMO was well done.. of course it can and probably will be improvements.. other makers will step up to the plate I am sure.. but there is room and possibilities for this rep. ..

The weight is good.. a little off due to the movement of course.. but still with the small lug width it does not wear like a 46 mm watch and is well balanced on the wrist .. as is the genuine ..(I am assuming) reviews on genuine forums say it is not "top heavy" and I can see that in the rep.. unlike other watches .. where the thickness makes the rep wobble on your wrist .. this is not the case with the BP 5002 Replication..

I believe those who acquire this rep. will be very pleased..

In closing a few wrist shots: Thank you for viewing !!

I will be adding more pics..

Aloha~Cheers

Lani

Additional Eye Candy ~

Crew Shot....

[Guest hoopty]

Just Beautiful, Though I am a bit disappointed at the depth of the date, I still question if that is fixable by some mod?

Edited August 29, 2008 by hoopty

[cornerstone]

Terrific / Fantastic / OUTSTANDING review!!!!! Thank you!!!

A very interesting piece indeed. I won't be in the first wave with this watch, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see one on my wrist at some point

[Guest avitt]

Excellent photo review...as usual!!!

Here's an early drawing (1942) of the Wempe flieger that adds to your intro:

[yellomen]

Thanx for this great review Lani

The review is excellently supported by the photos and i always love reading the history write up

Although i think they produced a great case and crystal, i must say i'm far from thrilled with the quality of the dial, the too far recessed datewheel and the faux power reserve.

[alw]

A classic review, thank you.

[cmetalprog]

Fantastic review Lanikai and great pictures , many thanks , I'm fully convinced to pull the trigger now.

[Nex_necO]

Wow!

Great review and pictures.

[trombone]

hi lanikai,

thanks for the great review.

how deep is the sunken datewheel?

if you look on the pics of the gen in the "chapter" crystal from your review,

the datewheel on the gen watch, seems a bit recessed too.

just the pics?

does it bother you?

for me it

[bwhitesox]

Thanks once again Lani for another fantastic review.

[Tribal]

Fantastic review

Many thanks to to you Lanikai....

[phaedo]

Great review Lani, the faux PR would put me off this one for now I think, but if they get that fixed, your review might have tempted me to get one...

[blade007]

excellent review, thanks mate.

[flyby75]

Great photo review, thanks!

[Toadtorrent]

Awesome work Lani...photos and writing. You're outdoing yourself every time!

[Cats]

Greath work Lani and beautifull pictures.

The BP is on my wishlist for a long time already.

Now it's getting closer and closer to the GEN.

Might have to pull the trigger in the near future.

Carpe Diem

Cats

[TwoTone]

.

[Dani]

Thanks Lani for the review

Good read and great photos.

Cheers,

Dani

[thomasng]

Thanks for the review- it's looking better than expected!

[dluddy]

Looks pretty good to me Lani.

Don't expect we will ever see one with a working 7-Day reserve so not holding my breath for a much improved version.

I was waiting for the reviews to come in on these as I have had the previous generations and sold tham off....The dial spacing was the big Tell

Might just have to step up for this one

[StormTooper4]

Good work Lani thats one Cool review Thanks for putting that together

ST4

[FxrAndy]

Nice review lani but i still dont think i will be getting one, So this does have a screw down crown? why the hell did josh tell me it did not when i asked? Either way the fixed PR is just too much for me to live with.

[robertk]

Great review Lani. It looks great. Finally, a good rep of my favorite watch.

Wear it well.

[swdivad]

Great review and photos Lani!!! Been waiting for that

Gotta say you're a brave soul... but it looks to have turned out to be a good gamble

Wear it well!!!

[b16a2]

Great review again Lani.

I would love to buy this watch, it does look good, but the price is what is putting me off.