automatico

JB Weld Three things experienced off road motorcycle/4 wheeler riders usually take with them...bottle of engine/trans oil, can of parts cleaner, JB Weld. Hit a rock and crack the case...lean it over to run the oil to the other side, clean the damaged area with parts cleaner, fill the crack with JB Weld, let it set, pour some oil in if needed, blast off. Fourth thing is a tow strap...

"Rule is cheapest usually are the ones with bit more "tells" than the more expensive..." True. Bought some cheapo $35 'submariner' replicas in the late 1990s that you could spot as a reep-lika 15 feet away. They were all steel, had Seagull ST16 movements, and were extremely rugged (for a mech watch). The main tell was the lettering (silver not white) on the dials looked like it had been stamped in a moving rickshaw. I call them 'Chrisubs' because the guy said his name was 'Chris'. Same guy had some much nicer subreps for $65. I call them 'nysubs' because he claimed he was from NYC. "I would second the idea of staying away from "swiss" movements, chinese sweatshops getting genuine ETA or Sellita movements and then putting them in clean is borderline laughable." Agree. Imho the better choice is to buy a watch with a China etaclone. I have a very low opinion of China etaclones in general but their one and only redeeming feature is they can be mashed flat and a swiss Eta put in their place. I have little doubt the Chinese could make higher quality 28xx etaclones if they wanted to...but not for $20 or less wholesale. Looking back at prices... About 20 years ago I bought some new Seagull ST6D for $12 each and new swiss Eta 2836 for $56 each (2846 was less). The supply house probably made 25% or 30% on them so counting a couple middlemen and shipping, the ST16D probably cost $6+/- and the 2836 probably $25+/- leaving the factory. It does not cost much to make movements at high volume. A swiss Eta 2836 probably cost $35 or $40 to make now. Wonder how much it cost to make a rlx 32xx movement? My guess is $400.

"Excellent question because I just saw this rectangular shaped gasket on a website. But I don't think anyone uses those anymore." Seiko uses a lot of the flat gaskets but they tend to crawl out of their shallow groove in the case and get cut or distorted quite a bit. Some of this trouble is because they are so thin. Most of them fit around the case back (not in a groove in the case) and as soon as the case back starts compressing the gasket you can not really tell what is happening to the gasket. The gasket groove in the case is shallow and the gasket is thin...not a good combo imho. In this type of case the 'groove' in the case is really just a slight relief cut into the case to help position the gasket. Sometimes you can see some of the gasket sticking out before you open the watch. Almost all gasket grooves in cases have flat sides and flat bottom areas. The correct round cross section gasket compresses enough to make it seal in the square area. Bought an assortment of thin flat gaskets from J. Borel years ago and half were black rubber and half were gray plastic. I might use one or two a year, mostly on Seiko, Pulsar etc. They are half price now: http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.10511/.f?sc=31&category=973256

"Got my first rep a few days ago from a TD and just wanted to share." I like the retro vibe. "I remember back in the "old days" if you wanted a Tudor you had to build one!" Me too. The only one I ever finished was a dressy model like a DJ using one of the cases I got from you. Now you can buy one for about the same $$ it would cost to stick one together. Finally found the missing JMB '1016' case. BOLO cancelled.

"The inside diameter for where I think the gasket should go is around 33mm." Case back gaskets are sized (and ordered) by the inside diameter and thickness (cross section measurement). "Generally speaking, I think some people would order an inside diameter that is 1 mm smaller than the inside diameter to stretch the gasket into the groove." Using an undersized gasket can allow it to crawl out of the groove and get between the case and case back when tightening the case back. With small cross section gaskets you may not notice it. "I'm guessing the thickness of the gasket should be between .80 and 1mm?" If the correct gasket thickness is unknown, it will depend on the width and depth of the gasket groove. You want the gasket to compress enough to properly seal the case while making sure the gasket is not so big in diameter that it does not allow the case back to seat against the case. This usually involves trial and error. You might be surprised at how little the O ring has to compress to seal the case. Lightly lubricate the case back threads with grease...$Fomblin$ etc to prevent galling/seizing. I use Krytox GPL 205 on screw down threads and gaskets, silicone grease on snap back gaskets. Note...many types of grease can dissolve rubber gaskets over time. $Fomblin$, Krytox, and silicone grease do not. Silicone grease is not the best for lubricating threads but it is better than nothing. Do not over tighten the case back. All you need to do is snug it down tight enough to fully compress the gasket and keep the back from coming loose. I will never understand why so many rolex etc case backs are cranked down so tight. Maybe to keep fools like me out of them...

"I like vintage older 4 digit models but have been keeping up with the advances in modern style replicas." I put quotation marks on my own opening statement. Brain dead.

"I like vintage older 4 digit models but have been keeping up with the advances in modern style replicas." Welcome aboard! My observations: 1...Replicas have come a long way toward excellence in case, dial, and bracelet appearance and quality. 2...Many of the movements are junk. This is a harsh assessment but it is the way I see it. One ray of light is the Miyota 9015 is finding its way into the fray. Sellita swiss etaclones are Ok along with fresh 100% genuine swissetas that are getting scarce in replicas today. That being said, if I was in the market for the latest modern s-mariner, I would get one with a standard China etaclone rather than a 3135 clone and have a swisseta ready for when it locks up. It may run for quite a while. 'Standard' = not dressed up with fake two screw bridges, red reversers etc. Q...What's wrong with the 3135 clone? A...No parts available except for a few expensive genuine parts that will work. That disqualifies it for me. One reason why the WM9 was so good is it had a swisseta.

"In looking at them compared with the analysis at DRSD and what I can get with Ruby's Watch for a similar price, it doesn't seem worth it." I agree. For $167.80 ($148.00 + $19.80) I would go with Ruby etc. Otoh for $99 I would give it a shot. After all, most legitimate USA dial refinishers will charge $100 +/- for a refinish job done on your dial plate with not as good results.

"Was contemplating buying a “Tudor 9411” case from Yuki." Here is a toot 7928 case for $420. I do not know if it looks Ok or not but it is a lot less $$ than Yuki. They might have a 9411. eBay item 263913082571

"...I have decided to go with a refinished feet first dial off the bay (on Singer plate?! maybe)." If the dial is 26.0mm let us know how it fits in the case. Update: I just now measured a few more Abay cases and they all have 26.0mm dial openings...a little bit larger than MBK cases, they are made for 26.0mm dials. All the Abay dials (date and no date) are 26.5mm wide. Tried a rlx 1570 no date movement with standard .4mm thick rlx dial in a few Abay cases...the stem is too far to the front (same as with MBK cases). Next, tried a rlx 1575 date movement with the dial and it was a good fit, stem lines up Ok. Never tried a 15xx movement in Abay cases before, did not know they would work. The 1575 date movement will need to use case clamps and screws but it will work. So...the Abay cases may be a low buck substitute for MBK cases if you are Ok with the case back gasket being mounted in the case and do not mind a little detail work. DW cases...you can get by with a 26.0mm dial in the 26.0mm dial opening when using a rlx 15xx movement because DW cases have a ledge machined inside the case that the movement mounts against...this allows the dial to be the same size as the dial opening without it falling through or getting off center but the dial will be positioned a hair below the dial seat. The catch is only the dial screws will be holding the dial down, it will not be seated against the front of the case. Read about DW cases in the sticky above the rlx section and my mumblings posted here and there. I doubt many of the 'SINGER' dial plates on 'refinished' replica dials are genuine. Many have dial feet that are too big or too small in diameter, too long or too short etc.

The dial in the eBay link has the numbers inset too far, just opposite of another common defect...the letters too far to the outside. The printing also appears to be pale. Compare the lettering to another dial they have for sale to see what I mean...eBay item number 263892047654 The quality/likeness of the pictures is unknown so there's also that to take into consideration. I will admit I am not too sharp on grading dials but I do have a few genuine 1016 dials for comparison. Plus $19.80 shipping is a bit stiff imho. Not impressed with the Ruby dials either although they may look better in hand, it may be the photography. In Ruby's defense, some of the dials on supposedly genuine 1016 watches look about the same: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rolex+1016+explorer&qpvt=rolex+1016+explorer&FORM=IGRE Assuming most of the dials in the images above are genuine, there are a lot of variations so maybe there is quite a bit of leeway in choosing a dial. The 'Stilty' dial on my JMB '1016' is not too hot comparing it to my nos examples but when comparing it to the images in the link above, it is not too bad. Something else about ordering aftmkt dials from Ruby, Yuki etc...the dial in the picture may not be exactly like the dial you get. The dial you get may be a little bit worse or it might be a lot better.

"I find that incredibly interesting ! I don't think I have seen any other club or online forum that i'm a member of behave in this way..." My thoughts exactly. There is a lot of knowledge and experience on here and everyone is willing to help if needed. It seems some of the 'genuine' watch forums are not nearly as friendly. Who has the best sub this week?

The 2821 is an older movement and some vintage Rado watches had them going by what I have seen for sale. I have never owned a 2821 but my guess is they are basically the same as an Eta 2824. I looked around on the 'net and could not find 2821 measurements. Most are 17 jewel but a higher jewel count autowind assembly will probably fit. "In my opinion it might be a nice replacement for a 2846." A 2846 (day and date) is a little bit thicker than a 2824 (date only) and the stem will not be centered in the case tube when used in a case made for a 2824. I ran into this on my JMB '1016' project. So...a 2821 (assuming it is the same size as a 2824) may not mount correctly in a case made for a 2846.

"Hi Auto! You might want to try Chrono24. There are quite a few 5504 for sale in there right now, including a “refinished” dial from Min Quy." Thanks! I just now looked at them. They sure are high $$ imho. I'm a low $$ knave so I guess I'll have to stay with do-it-yourself projects. Chrono 24 is rolex ebay for Kings and Queens. Ha! I've been wearing the JMB project '1016' mentioned above for a few days after changing the 'Mary' folded bracelet back to the hollow mid link model because the later bracelet goes better with the flat top crystal. All that is needed now is to find a 7 hole clasp or find a 6 hole clasp in my parts with enough open space to drill another set of holes. Obscure details like this do not matter much at all but they are easy to do. I have another JMB '1016' project in parts with a dial, mvt etc but can not find it. I put it up somewhere so I would not lose it.

The only out of the ordinary AK I have is a 34mm 5501 tutone made III 62 (cal 1530) with a poorly refinished dial. I got a Yuki explorer dial with goldtone letters and hand set for it but nave not put it together yet. Bought the Yuki dial because a genuine AK dial with gold markers is expensive and hard to find in today's market. Can not recall seeing a 5504 for sale at watch shows. Saw quite a few 1018 models, some had been converted to look like a 1016.

"I will try to ask for your Durowe movement with plastic balance jewels next time I hop in Saigon." Thanks but my watch has the 7 jewel movement with plastic balance 'jewels'. I am looking for a 17 jewel model with all stone jewels. I'll find one sooner or later but I am taking my time in order to save $$...this is a 'low buck' project. "I cannot identify the mvmt on these watches but the assembly is neat and they are quite reliable." The 'IWC' looks like a Miyota (Citizen) going by the overall design and balance shock spring. Can not read the writing on the winding weight. The lower two (5517 and 1016 reps) look like etaclones, hard to tell who made them.

"Most of us will not have these reps long enough to see severe degradation of the material so it really doesn't matter." Bingo! Can't see much sense in paying over $10 or $20 extra for supposedly 904 in a replica. The stuff is not expensive...it's common acid transport pipe used in hundreds of factories. Any watch company other than rlx bragged about using it and it would be ignored. https://www.finishing.com/197/23.shtml

"Let's not forget it wont be a fair test to compare a 1970's 316 case with a 2000 904 steel." All is fair in love and war.

"Unfortunately I cannot be of great assistance with the mvmt you are looking for, but I can ask around and if something surfaces I will surely let you know." Thanks for the info. Those watches look good. My favorite 1960s through 1970s issued mil-watches are the Benrus models with the one piece case. I bought a few back when they were $40 or $50 before the prices took off. They came with manual wind Eta hacking movements and make good everyday watches. I have seen a few Durowe movements on eBay in various watch brands but they were $75 or more and still would need to be cleaned and oiled. For that reason I am looking for a low $$ example, should not be hard to find as there were a lot of them made. I have quite a few odds and ends watches in my junk/parts box and I might even have a Durowe movement, I just have not taken the time to look. These movements may show up with a few different brand names stamped on them...Durowe, INT, LACO (Lacher & Co) etc. LACO is known mainly for military type watches.

"A picture tells 1000 words or perhaps even more!" I have seen a lot of genuine rlx cases like this and owned a few in worse condition although most were 316. The worst were 16000 series DJ with cal 3035. Also seen many rotted 1600 DJ and 4 digit submariner cases and have a movement/dial rescued from a rotted out 1680 that is now residing in a DW case. No need to shed crocodile tears... Make your rolex last 5 years! Wash it each and every day... With Enviro-Green Rot-Not Spray!

Puffpuff… You ain't the only one lookin'. (then again, you might be) https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vintagerolexforum/dark-lord-dial-contact-details-t245684.html VRF probably already sent out a lynch mob just for asking.

I have seen 'military forgeries' made to sell on eBay as genuine but no ready made military replicas. Were the watches in the pictures ready made or projects? I was just wondering. There used to be a large supply of military watch cases, dials, hands etc for sale at USA NAWCC Marts years ago but most have dried up. All I have is a nos Elgin military case and dial from back then but never finished it. Also have an issued military Hamilton similar to the one in the picture but the dial is unsigned except for the H3 and radio active triangle warning left and right of the dial center. It has permanent spring bars in the Parkerized stainless steel case instead of regular spring bars. The case back has: WATCH GENERAL PURPOSE MIL-W-46374B HAMILTON 6645-00-952-3767 MFG. PART NO. 39988 DLA-400-80-C-1018 JAN 1981 DISPOSE RAD. WASTE U.S. The problem is it has a non running 7 jewel Durowe movement with plastic balance jewels. I am looking for a similar 17 jewel Durowe 7410 movement to put in it without spending much $$. Some had the 7j movement, some had the 17j movement.

"For the same price of a 904L rolex you could buy an 18k solid gold star supply submariner case and have an even better corrosion resistant "Rolex submariner." The only 904 rolex watches I might have owned were approx 2010 14000M/14010M Air Kings and none of them showed any signs of corrosion. Really do not know for sure if they were 904 or not. I have seen a lot of corroded genuine 316 rolex cases though. A lot more than I would have expected to see when I was a budding rlx fanboy in the early 1970s. I thought they were bulletproof back than. I no longer believe that. Sorta off topic... Way back when gold was much more affordable, I gathered up quite a few 14k and 18k watches including a few rlx models. Not one of them had any corrosion at all other than collecting a mild blemish that sometimes appears when stored. What really surprised me was how good the overall case condition was on almost all of them. Some were 50+ years old when I got them and the dials, crowns etc showed it but the cases were mostly in good shape. I doubt many owners would abuse a gold watch but the condition still surprised me. It turned out (in my experience) that gold watches are quite a bit more rugged than I would have suspected when I started out. Gold watches are good for everyday wear as long as you remember what you have on your wrist. Otoh I have seen a large number of badly worn gold bracelets of all brands. Btw...in 2001 an 18k ST DJ case was a little over $800 and a submariner case was about $1200. I bought a DJ case for a 3035 but never got a submariner case. Now they are almost 4X that much.

Looked on the Yuki site and almost all of the cases except a few made for Etas are "out of stock". Wonder if they are going to stop selling them or what? Anyone bought a case lately?

"What desired watch(es) will you never buy the genuine of, and instead will opt to keep, buy or modify the replica counterpart?" Any modern (sapphire) rolex. I like the 16610 but would never buy one unless it was a real bargain. The only 16610 replicas I have are F520117 Noobs and a few assorted not noob 21j and swisseta models from 12 or 15 years back. Do not wear them, like vintage better. Do not care for the fat lug ceramic models. "To ask the question in another way, what rep watch do you own, that satisfies you enough such that the gen one becomes more or less (though maybe never completely) redundant?" MBK Frankenstein 5512 and 5513. Both have 15xx movements/ST bez kit/GS crystal/ST case tube/genuine crowns. Imho this makes them just about as good as a high priced genuine watch without the worry of putting a scratch in the case or corrosion creeping up on it. The only worthwhile improvement would probably be to jerk the 15xx movements out and stick freshened 2846 Etas in them...