automatico

If you have to pay someone to do the movement r/r it might be better to go with a fresh swiss Eta and be done with it. Sometimes etaclones can cause problems and require parts or service. Swiss Eta can too, but not as much and you can easily get parts for swiss Eta. 'Fresh' = inspected, cleaned and oiled, or new. Things to look for in used movements are worn reversers, weak mainspring, worn setting parts, damaged screw heads, worn winding parts, worn rotor bearings, rust/corrosion etc. If you need many parts you may soon be up to the cost of a new movement. As far as clones go the Seagull brand is most highly respected of the Asian clones. Problem is it is not so easy tell a Seagull movement from the other brands. Most Seagull etaclone 28xx seem to have decorated top plates and rotor. "I would recommend you buy a SW200 from Otto Frei." SW200 is also a good choice but I do not know about the parts situation. "If you're interested I can post an almost new ETA 2836 for about the clone price." Good offer.

Here are a couple '1016' project threads from the past. They may be of interest to anyone starting out on a '1016' project. There are quite a few more if you search them out. lhooq participated in some good ones. The first one from January 2008 has lost the pics but there is some good info on it: https://rwg.cc/topic/66391-a-few-pics-of-my-very-first-vintage-franken-project/?hl=%2B1016 btw, the 'Jimmythree' poster at the end of the thread is me. "And to another member, who I will not name at this time. He can come forward if he choses to. He did an outstanding job with the case, bezel and crystal fitting." This was me too (brag, brag). I was 'Jimmythree' back then before I had to change my name after a server meltdown. This thread is not very old and still has very good pictures: https://rwg.cc/topic/167880-the-built-of-my-franken-rolex-explorer-i-ref-1016/#comment-1397861

Not counting cartel cases because of their specification hits and misses from one batch to the next, where does the replacement case situation stand today? Case situation from the recent past from what I know (no claim for accuracy): 1...DW is long gone but his 55xx cases were Ok and affordable, around $200. They were all 1680 spec, made for rlx 1570/5 date movements and 26.5mm dials. Almost all had spring wire bezels and the case neck was a hair too small. Some with good engraved numbers, some no numbers. Came with two sizes of case backs, one oem (30.9mm threads) one not (30.4mm threads), everything else is the same. Most case back letters/numbers were pretty good. The case sides are slightly rounded, not flat. Make good 'high mileage' watches and lower cost projects. I've had better luck fitting domed aftmkt crystals than flat top cyclop aftmkt crystals on these cases using Clark or ST bezel kits. No longer see them for sale new or used. No O ring under bezel. China made probably. 2...MBW/MBK cases are also long gone. They were affordable when readily available and made to accept a rlx 1570/5 date movement and a 26.0mm dial (1680 was 26.5mm). The case backs, crystals, and bezels were oem spec. Laser case numbers/letters not very good. Very good cases for projects using rlx, Eta etc movements. Dial window in case needs to be enlarged for 1680 spec dial. Has an O ring under the bezel like later models. Sold mainly in Thailand, legend says they were made there. Do not know how case prices are holding up, guessing $300 to $400 for an empty undamaged case with bezel. 3...Yuki cases are still around but not always up on their website. They are high quality and priced around $700 to $800 last time I checked. No O ring under bezel on mine. Hardly ever see a used one for sale, guessing $400 to $500 used and undamaged. 4...IG44 cases are few and far between, been out of business a few years. I snagged a new 1680 case from a member a few years ago and it is first rate, oem spec, precise machining, good numbers etc. The case has a slight 'canoe' shape when seen from the side like some of the older 1680s. No idea where they were made. No O ring under bezel. Probably go for around $500 if you could find one. Example of 'canoe' shaped case: https://www.fratellowatches.com/tbt-rolex-red-submariner/ 5...Phong etc 'higher end' cases sell for $1000 and up. Good quality. High prices. Better than Yuki? Maybe yes, maybe no. Have seen opinions both ways. Do not know about O ring under bezel. Still pricey when purchased used as long as not clumsily 'aged'...guessing $700 and up. Cases 1,2 have oem spec case tube threads but the machined case tube gasket area may not accept oem spec gaskets when using oem spec case tubes. This can be a real hassle if decent WR is desired. The fix is to machine the gasket seat. Cases 3,4,5 will accept oem case tubes and gaskets. My questions are: 1...Exactly what are the 'Vietnam' cases now being mentioned on the forum? 2...Are they really made in Vn or like the 'Italian made' replicas from 15-20 years ago...made in China? 3...Is the fit and finish as good as MBK, Yuki etc? 4...Are they oem spec? 5...How much $$?

1...sand the ID of the bezel 2...take down the ID of the bezel and repaint "In hindsight, I think either is preferable to taking down the OD of the crystal, which is asking a lot of a bit of acrylic." If you are using a 1016 spec (#22) crystal the sidewall is fairly thick compared to a DJ, OPD etc. It should not take much. The problem is removing the material evenly. Fun fact: I just now took a flat side acrylic crystal (from a rolex look-alike) and polished it from 30.35mm OD down to 30.30mm OD in 6 (six) minutes counting measuring it 5 times. I do this quite often.

"...the margin between a too loose bezel and a cracked crystal is only a couple thousandths of an inch." Anyone who presses metal bezels down over plastic crystals needs to take note of the above. Q&A Q...If I am so damn smart, how would I do it? A...Mount the crystal on the case and measure the OD of the crystal at the base of the crystal with a precision digital caliper in two or three spots (the OD may be smaller higher up on the crystal). Write it down. Next, measure the ID of the bezel in 2 or 3 spots. Write it down. Determine the difference. The bezel being about .1mm smaller than the crystal is usually Ok, very much less and the crystal may crack. One exception is if the crystal is a loose fit on the case neck. When this happens it is hit or miss and you just have to develop a feel between 'go' and 'no go' when pressing the bezel down over the crystal. If the crystal is too tight on the case neck and cracks when you press it down...you are in trouble. Maybe try another brand of crystal because many aftmkt crystals are hit or miss. Q...Can you use a lubricant on the bezel to make it easier to press down? A...If you feel it will help (usually on steel bezels, gold will stretch a little). Q...What to use? A...I use Dawn dish detergent, very little of it. Q...Why use Dawn instead of silicone grease, Fomblin, Krytox etc? A...Because Dawn dries out in a little while and almost disappears therefore providing no lubrication. Silicone grease etc stays in its original condition and may allow the bezel to slide up or off...but it makes the bezel easier to remove next time around. Q...Will water make the Dawn slick again? A...Maybe, but I never had a problem with it. Q...What do 'Pros' use? A...Nothing afaik. ...but they ain't workin' on replicas. Q...How do I reduce the OD of acrylic crystals or polish the top side? A...I use a soft buffing wheel mounted on a 1750 RPM bench buffer with 'Crystal-Kleer' acrylic crystal polishing compound. Dremel tools can turn too fast and burn crystals or make flat spots. The buffing wheel I use is 6 inch by about 3/4 inch. You can use a Dremel tool with polishing compound at low rpm as long as the buffing wheel is soft and you keep it moving. For Crystal-Kleer, look at eBay item number 232784354549 The 'new' C-K is packaged differently. It's good stuff. "Or, install a sapphire? With the nylon gaskets, it might just work?" Nylon (plastic) crystal gaskets are much more forgiving and do not crack as easily.

"A nice 1016 explorer sterile dial black build would be very practical for a daily wear watch." I put a watch together a year or so back using a 36mm DJ type case, Raffles 28mm 3-6-9 exp type sterile dial, and Eta 2836. It turned out good but I took it apart and used the movement in something else. Thought about making another one using a 16610 type case with the crown guards ground off, sapphire crystal, 7mm unsigned crown, with the case flattened and polished where the cg were removed. I have a couple early type cases with lug holes all the way through that would work. They have 60 click 'spring wire' bezels and flat 30.5 x 2mm MG crystals that press into a plastic band gasket (a sapphire crystal would cost around $20). Iirc the dial had goldtone minute tracks and dial feet for DG/NN 21j and Eta 28xx. Maybe put one of the solid link 'rivet' oyster bracelets on it with an unsigned f/l clasp. Q...Why cut the cg off? A...To make it look like something other than a submariner clone. Could go with an Eta 2836 with 24 hour conversion and GMT bez insert. ...or buy a new Parnis black dial sapphire/ceramic '21 jewel' model for $83 on eBay and swap the dials. Item number 111981352595

JSebWC's 'Million Dollar Sub' got me wondering... What happens to the high $$ vintage rolex watches we see or hear about sold at auction now and then. I even wonder about the random 1655 someone paid $18k for a few years ago or the ruffy $12k 1016 last month. Big Buck auction watches cause a sensation when they sell high but if they do not sell at a higher price soon thereafter, they seem to disappear. My question is: Where do they go? Maybe they are like 'collector' cars... I have a few friends in the vintage and street rod car restoring/building business and one fellow told me a few weeks ago that at the last two street rod shows he attended (Spring Rod Run, Pigeon Forge and Street Rod Nationals South, Knoxville TN) many cars could be bought for not much above half or two thirds what the owner paid for them. When one does sell, the seller usually keeps quiet about the price but it eventually leaks out. Actual price = what the owner will take for the car, not the asking price. My guess is that high $$ watches suffer a similar fate sooner or later...ask high, sell lower, keep quiet. Maybe watch collectors are 'aging out' like in many baby boomer hobbies (Harley D motorcycles, motorcycles in general, Cushman Eagle scooters, dirt track racing, '32 Ford roadster Hot Rods etc). I live close to the number one Harley D dealer in the USA and it does not look that busy. I guess times are changing. There are exceptions of course and word was that Patek collector watch prices were supported by PP for a long time by buying their own watches at auction to keep the prices and demand high. I doubt rolex would do this because imho they are basically a cheap outfit that only cares about the bottom line. If they wanted a 'museum classic' they would just put one together for not much $$. Like we do.

Good project idea and the MQ dial looks real good. Wonder how much the dial is? $300? More?

"I have some 2836 cases and the only difference I see is the crown position." That's probably the only difference, the crown being closer to the back.

Hot Coat is Cool. Did you ever make any '1016' cases using 2836 spec cases?

"Does Yuki ETA dial have the date window in the Gen spec location?" Good Question. If you compare the Yuki 1680 Eta dial and the Yuki 1680 dial for a rolex movement on the Yuki website, you will see that the date window is farther to the right on the Eta dial and closer to the marker. This may or may not still be how they are but I remember some members having problems with them in the past. MBK 1680 Eta dials may be another option but from what I have seen (I have two) they are nothing special but the date window is in the standard rolex 15xx location. "What other dial options do I have that are for ETA movt but will line up date with gen cyclop position?" None that I know of other than MBK, and a few cartel 1680 models made for Eta movements with the rolex date window offset. There are probably Eta 1680 dials with rolex 15xx date offset offered by others but I have no information on them. I have a few old cartel 1680 Eta dials (ca 2005) but the lettering and markers are not too hot and about the only way I could live with one on a watch with high grade case parts is if the crystal was scratched up pretty bad. Ha! But true. I have put a few of these little 1680 migraine headaches together and I ended up using a rolex spec dial with the dial feet removed, DW overlay from Australia (now on eBay), and mounted the dial to the movement spacer (mounted = glued). Glue may not be legal but it works as long as the movement/dial combo is mounted securely inside the case. Last time around (JMB '1016' project) I used clear Gorilla Glue with excellent results. DWO eBay item number 123164052894 Shipping is high so order 3 or 4 and sell the others on the forum and divide the shipping cost. "It is possible with skill and care to notch the ETA baseplate for the feet, which is probably a more elegant solution." Good suggestion. A watch assembler will need some 'watchbotcher' skills to do it but it will keep the dial in original condition so it is a worthwhile option. I developed some 'watchbotcher' skills over the years, everyone who works on them does. I honed them to a fart storm on quartz watches and replicas. ...make that 'art form'.

"Start with cheap watches..." Very good advice. A lot of running watches have been kia by diving in with a screwdriver too early in the game. In my experience the two worst things about mechanical watches are: 1...Hairsprings. An absolutely devious device. No wonder quartz watches are a huge success. 2...Periodic service. No way around it. Another reason for the success of quartz watches. On mechanical and quartz analog watches, fitting hands can also be a real hassle. They have to be spaced so they do not hit each other, the dial, or the crystal. They have to be in correspondence. Correspondence = when the hour hand is centered on a marker, the minute hand should be dead on the 12. Note: Sometimes the M hand will be dead on the 12 when the H hand is also on 12 but a hair off when the H hand is at 6 or some other number. This is caused by slack in the 'cogs' etc so it's a good idea to always center the H and M hands at 12 and let it go. The hands also have to be in the correct position when the date changes. Fitting new hands is often a challenge because they may not fit properly. The worst is the second hand imho because a broach to open the hole in the tube is so small that you can go from too small to too big in a split second...or break the broach off in the tube. Hour and M hands are easy to ruin by making the holes too big and it is usually not possible (or very hard) to tighten them up. There is also the danger of flexing the hands during r/r and cracking the lume or scratching the dial. The only way to get the hang of it is to practice. A good cheap movement to practice on is the larger gent's size Seagull ST6D (D=date). It is made in the traditional manner where the autowind assembly is simply screwed onto a basic manual wind movement like many swiss automatics. Movements like the '21 jewel' Miyota clones with the autowind reverser buried between the main plates is a hassle and working on them might be saved for later...or never.

"Anyone think differently?" Nope, I agree. When someone buys a cheap case back gasket assortment on eBay etc there is no telling what the gaskets are made out of. Most supply houses carry good quality gaskets (hopefully). Some gasket info... Screw down backs: Case back gaskets are sized by their inside diameter and thickness, both O ring and flat types. The ID can be obtained from the gasket seat in the case or the lip/groove on the case back but the thickness is sometimes hit or miss. Measuring a used gasket will not always give an accurate measurement because the old gasket may be compressed to an out of round shape. You want the gasket to compress fully so that when the back is screwed down the case back seats against the case without squeezing the gasket too much or not sufficiently compressing the gasket...this is where hit or miss and developing a 'feel' for the process comes in. You do not want the gasket showing from the outside after the case back has been tightened (because the gasket is too thick) but there may be a few exceptions to this. You also do not want the case back bottoming out before the gasket is compressed and this is sometimes hard to determine. When the watch is a replica, vintage, obscure brand, no published specs etc, it takes precise measurement or hit or miss until you determine the correct size. Always lubricate the gasket with silicone or something similar and be careful not to allow lubricant to get down into the case or on the movement. Rolex and some other companies use gasket/thread grease (Fomblin, Krytox etc, aka 'high vacuum grease') and it also prevents stainless and titanium threads from galling or seizing. The catch: Fomblin is about $80 for 20 grams. I had a rolex 160xx with the case back seized and when I finally got it apart (penetrating oil/Bergeon 5700 case tool and a LOT of downward pressure), it removed some of the threads on the case back (the back was stuck when I bought it). A drop of Fomblin etc would have prevented it. From the Edwards website: Fomblin® Grease: This grease is an excellent lubricant for sliding elastomer seals, and exhibits the chemical inertness typical of the Fomblin® range. It has a very low vapor pressure and is suitable for use in the presence of gaseous and liquid oxygen under severe conditions. (Edwards specializes in vacuum devices etc) Krytox GPL 205 is a little bit cheaper, it's what I use. Snap on backs: The same rules apply but it is sometimes harder to tell if a flat gasket is too thin or not. Silicone is fine, no $80 Fomblin needed. 'Red' plastic (polyurethane) gaskets like used on some snap back omega, Gucci etc. No lubricant is used. Gaskets must be an exact fit, sometimes a hassle, easily damaged.

"Hmmm, trying to decide whether, or not, to be insulted..." Be proud! The Camper is an icon. My testimonial: The JMB '1016' cured my Chronic Submariner Blues Syndrome. No dangerous saw blade! (rotating bezel) No extension! (a scary word in itself) No bumpers! (CG) No flipper locker! It's streamlined! It's smaller! It's lighter! It's faster! It's cooler!! Guy out fishing...engine would not start, lost his paddle. Saw a fellow with two women in a boat close by. Called out to them: "Pardon me Sir, may I borrow one of your oars?" It was a British guy, he hollered back: "I'll 'ave you know these are my sisters!"

"Great write up @automatico " Thanks. Ask a rolex AD about buying a 1016 dial now and they will call the rolex po-leece on you. "bunch of nitpickers....😉" No one I know has ever seen a 1016. They think the JMB is a TIMEX 'Camper'.

"...explicitly state Stainless Steel case." I have seen this a lot on eBay when buying cheapo watches to sell or give away. I wonder if the characters selling these 'stainless' (really pot metal) specials actually know if they are SS or PM, or even care. If you see 'stainless steel back' the rest of the case is usually pot metal...or worse. You can check the metal by lightly drilling into the spring bar hole between the lugs with a small drill bit mounted in a pin vise...SS is hard, PM is soft, it's easy to tell. Goldtone PM is usually brass and usually does not cause much skin irritation but some of the white PM concoctions can really go to work on sensitive skin. I have seen quite a few plated pot metal watches that were blistered all over in a short time when worn in hot, humid weather. I saved a box of them for movements, dials, hands and some are fuzzy as a wool glove from corrosion. Looked at the same Tevise watch on eBay (eBay item number 142603698876 $23.99 USD), they also claim the case is SS. I do not see how they can sell them for £10, ($13.40 USD). Amazing. They must have a machine that takes soup cans, chunks of zinc, a few brass bolts/nuts, some glass bottles, a few drops of oil, some paint, a hunk of car tire rubber...and it cranks out watches 24/7. Unattended. The watches fall on the floor and a guy sweeps them up once a day and puts them in boxes (made the same way).

"Anyone have any experience with any/all of these dials and care to comment?" Your comment about the numbers being too close to the outer edge of the dial made me look at my stash of 1016 dials. Here is what I found: All three of my nos 1016 dials (two tritium from the 1980s/early 1990s and one Luminova dial with tritium marks from when rolex bought Beyeler Dial Co and started making their own dials, some were Luminova with tritium markings. Each one has about 1/2 the length of the marker of space between the 3-6-9 markers and the numbers. All three are identical except for one being Luminova. The numbers have a smooth, even surface, not rough or chalky. All have been stored in the original dial tins in an air conditioned house. The lume color has not changed as far as I can tell. The dates reflect when I got them, not when they were made. When you look at them under bright light with medium magnification they do not appear to be much better than higher grade replica dials except for the exceptional lume application. Three replica dials that I got from 'Stilty' about 10 years ago (two unused and one mounted a few times, now on my JMB project watch), have smaller numbers and about half a marker of space between the number and marker like the genuine dials. The numbers are a hair smaller than on the genuine dials and have a rougher finish. The letters are Ok but not as crisp as the genuine dials. I give them a 7 on a 10 scale, 10 being a new genuine dial. Do not know where they came from originally. One new dial of unknown origin that looks very good with marker/number spacing close to genuine. It has very good letters and slightly yellowed markers. I would give it 8 on a 10 scale in appearance when compared to a genuine dial. It is quite a bit better than the three 'Stilty' dials. I got it from an RWG member in Stockholm Sweden, January 2013. A 7 out of 10 rating may be a bit high for the 'Stilty' dials but 6 just seems too low for them. Most of the reproduction dials are good enough for me. I would call the 'Stilty' dials 'Eta project dials' and the unknown dial from Sweden a '1570 dial'. Anyone says your dial is not quite right, tell them you would like to compare it to their '1016' dial. The reproduction dials are for projects but why would I have nos dials? Because I thought I might find a new or like new case, but never did. Some Beyeler dial info: https://rwg.cc/topic/132084-mythbusters/

"...reshaped and engraved cartel case." This case looks as good as (or better than) my pricey Phong 1655 case from about 2009. Phong was the Case King then. You are the Case King now.

One of the problems encountered when using cartel cases is most are made for 6.0mm crowns and a genuine spec 5.3mm crown looks a bit small between the crown guards. If you go with a 6.0mm crown I doubt anyone would notice except maybe a watchnut. If I wanted a '1675' and did not want to go with a China 21 jewel movement (DG3804B etc), I would use a swiss eta 2846 with a Chinese non adjustable 24 hour conversion. If I wanted a '16750', I would use a swiss eta 2836 with a Chinese non-adj 24 hour conversion. The 1675 and 16750 use the same crystal, bezel, bez insert etc and both have non-adj 24H hands. Using fast beat movements in vintage replicas takes away from the 'realism' imho. Very few will notice this though The earlier swiss eta 2836 GMT conversions had a non adjustable 24 hour hand and were very reliable. You can find an etaclone 2836 with the non adjustable 24 hour hand on eBay now and then to get the conversion. Swap out the 24 hour parts and use the swiss 2836 parts left over to put the etaclone back together and sell it or use it in something else. Some of the 24 hour eta conversions with adjustable 24 hour hands can cause problems. I have a '1675' with a swiss eta 2836 and Chinese 24 hour conversion from 12 or 15 years ago. It is a 'three striker'. Most of them were. Strike one...Fast beat. Strike two...Wrong dial. Strike three...Wrong crown. Youuu're Out!

"Rep Tag bracelets are pretty good!" Agree. I have a genuine quartz TAG Link and compared it with a replica...there was not much difference at all. The replica was higher quality overall than I would have expected. The complete replica bracelet looked like it would fit the genuine watch. Do not know if the replica links would work in the genuine bracelet or not...did not try swapping anything around. If I had paid a high price for the genuine Link I would have felt bad after looking the replica over. Many replicas will surprise you, especially quartz models that do not usually have movement problems like some mechanical models. My guess is a replica bracelet for the same model as the genuine watch will probably work. If you find out, please post the results here. I've always had a soft spot for TAG Heuer watches.

"I was fortunate to avoid some of your issues by using a gen 16014 case (with JMB bezel) and Whoopy dial. The 2846 fit and the dial was easily positioned." I looked through some notes I kept from a few years ago concerning '1016' projects: I used a 162xx case for the first one of these projects but it had a 15xx rolex movement...this was in October 2008. I made the bezel from scratch using a ring cut from a piece of seamless 904 tubing. Now I use ST smooth bezels made for 162xx DJ sapphire cases for blanks and cut them to fit. Put a 2846 Eta in the same case with the same dial in December 2010 but do not remember how the stem lined up in the case tube...centered, high, or low. This is when I removed the dial feet. A 3035 is thicker than a 3135 so a 160xx case would have more 'max head room' than a 162xx case...about .4mm iirc. Also had a 2846 in a 160xx case for a 1016 project and took it apart shortly, do not remember much about it. It was the same 2846/dial combo as used in the 162xx with a spacer to make the movement/dial mount a little bit farther back in the case, best I can remember. Not sure about the details. Trivia...Max Headroom! Ha! I have an official, original 'Max Headroom' watch, got it from the local Coca-Cola distributor (M-H TV show sponsor). Do not remember exactly when but I was working in a Ducati-Husqvarna shop at the time and the Ducati Paso had not been out very long. "Not so easy now given the lack of availability of parts ... :)" Parts are the biggest problem of them all imho. "Why not use a 2840 from swatch? Inexpensive, low beat, same dimensions as 2824. Not to mention it has no date crown position. You just need a plastic ring to mount it." Good idea. I did not have a Swatch movement but have a few Etas of various reference numbers so the 2824/2846 combo was the Lucky Duck this time around. From the first post in this thread: "Removed the dial feet for this project" I was wrong about this as the dial feet had already been removed. They were removed in 2010: "I had this one without dial feet from a previous project using a rlx 162xx case." These projects tend to run together in my hollow head after a while. Note on the 2824/2846 'combo' movement: Been wearing it since yesterday afternoon and after 3 or 4 'trial and error' regulations it is about 5 or 7 seconds fast in a day. For now. Something else...I did not change out the shock jewels and springs to a matching pair but used the original 'Incabloc' type jewel/shock parts in the 2824 main plate and the 'Etachron' jewel/shock parts on the other side along with the 2846 balance complete, escape wheel, and pallet fork. I did not want to r/r the balance assembly into the other balance bridge and take the chance of #@&%ing the hairspring. The 2846 escapement parts are not finished as carefully as the 2824 parts and the balance wheel/hs are different alloys. A 2824 usually keeps better time. 'Usually' being the key word.

"You could also have made it easier by using a dial that had ETA feet ... like Whoopy's if you could have found one …." True. I had this one without dial feet from a previous project using a rlx 162xx case. "You are one detailed modder!!!" Thanks! And it more or less proves I actually did it. More than likely...

Finished this project. Finally. Here is what I have learned: The thinner JMB case will not accept a 21600 bph Eta 2846 so I made an Eta combo movement with thinner 2824 plates and 2846 running gear. It runs fine. Here is how it went: 1...The dial is mounted directly on top of the movement plate without a calendar spacer or any spacer at all. Q...Why? A...To make the movement mount as far as possible toward the upper side of the case so the stem will be centered in the case tube (this JMB case is made for a 2824). Q...How is the dial mounted to the movement? A...The dial is cemented to the brass movement spacer with Gorilla glue and three thin adhesive dial strips were folded over the outer edge of the movement plate and the spacer pushed down over them...the dial strips hold the spacer/dial in place and keep it positioned correctly during r/r the movement/dial in the case. The dial is not mechanically attached to the movement (no dial feet). A thin brass dial washer was used to keep the hour wheel in mesh. This project could have gone better if I had changed a few things: 1...Make a thin aluminum or brass spacer to go between the top of the movement plate and bottom of the dial. The spacer would need to be thick enough to provide support to the dial around the outside edge...without moving the dial away from the top plate. Q...Why? A...Because the dial is supported mostly in the middle of the top plate where there is an 'island' with very little support around the outer edges allowing the dial to rock slightly when installing casing clamps. This causes no harm because nothing moves after the movement is mounted but a 'leveling spacer' would be a worthwhile addition. Q...Could I have used a standard stamped metal Eta calendar spacer? A...Probably but it would need to be thinned down with sandpaper. I did not want to take it apart to try it. Q...What would I do differently the next time around when using the same case? A 1...Go with a different (thinner) Eta or maybe an A Schild 18000 or 21600 bph movement to keep from making a combo movement, I have a few 1960s/1970s A/S movements but never measured them. Since there are no dial feet and the dial is mounted to the movement spacer it does not matter what brand movement is used. Hand sizes might be a problem because you need to use 'Mercedes' hands made for Eta, rlx, NN/DG/Seagull etc. A 2...Make a dial spacer if needed. A 3...Do the project all at once, do not delay the project for months then start back on it. A 4...Use a case made for an Eta 2836/46. It would be a little bit thicker but a lot easier. Q...How long did this project take, start to finish? A...Over one year. Just kidding...25 or 30 hours counting drilling/tapping the case for regular 6.0mm case tube, putting the combo movement together, hunting parts etc. I have a spare JMB case, dial etc so maybe I will put another one together later on. ...somewhere around year 2100.

Looks super good! Rolex 1002 and 1003 cases will work for these projects too, they use the same crystals, crowns, dials etc. 1002 = smooth bezel 1003 = engine turned bezel I tried making a similar watch with a JMB 34mm tudor type case and it needs a 2824 movement as a 2836/46 is too thick, 2783 might be too, did not try one. I was shooting for a 21600 bph movement (2846). Genuine AK and 1002/3 cases have more 'rotor room'. I ended up using a 1002 case, rlx 1560, Yuki dial, and the new bezel from the JMB toot. "An old 'no brand' rivet bracelet I bought ages ago." I have one too, probably from the 1970s with a triangle where the rolex coronet would be on the clasp cap. The rivets are round headed (not hollow), the hoods are 20mm, and the clasp is 14mm wide. It is the stretchy hair puller type. Saw Nivada on the rotor... Nivada (Grenchen Switzerland) is also Croton.

I had another go at this never ending project by gluing the dial to the movement spacer with clear Gorilla glue. Super glue and epoxy can crack and release the bond but Gorilla glue is a bit more flexible and parts usually stay put. The clear Gorilla glue does not swell up like the old yellow glue they started out with so it will not jack the dial away from the spacer as it dries. I roughed the surface of the spacer up a little and cleaned the spacer and dial with acetone on a Q-tip. The directions on the Gorilla glue say to dampen one surface (if non porous metal etc), glue the parts together, and clamp them if needed. I stuck it together after dampening the back side of the dial slightly with water on another Q-tip, then ran a thin bead of glue around the spacer and clamped it all together in a 'BB' crystal press between two flat crystal dies. A small square of wax paper was placed between the front side of the dial and upper flat die and a little bit of tension was supplied by a couple rubber bands between the press handle and base. Can not apply much pressure because it could crack the printed lume spots and dots. 'Flat die' = the type of round flat die used to press mineral glass/sapphire crystals in cases...not the hollow type for domed crystals. I will also try to put a couple narrow 'dial strips' between OD of the movement and ID of the spacer to keep it in place when handling the assembly so the movement will not move away from 12 high on the dial. 'Dial strips' are small rectangular strips of clear double sticky dial adhesive. They can be trimmed to fit so I'll make them narrow and try to get them to go between the OD of the movement and ID of the spacer. There should be enough room to allow for them. Hope it works this time around, I'll post the results in a few days or a week.