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Here is some info on the 1570/5 to GMT conversion: https://rwg.cc/topic/114671-rolex-1575-gmt-movement-questions Parts needed to convert 1570 w/date to GMT: #8038 - center second pinion 5.70mm #8037 - Cannon Pinion 3.39mm #8039 - double tooth hour wheel 2.44mm #8040 - 24hr wheel 1.41mm #8035 - Calendar Wheel nut #8036 - Date Jumper #8006 - Yoke for cam #8008 - spring for cam yoke #8011 - stud for cam #8030 - Center wheel with Cannon Pinion (or just the center wheel if you have the CP listed above). #8034 - Calendar wheel (same as date movement afaik). 8034, 8035, and 8011 are listed in a group on the Rolex sheets. The calendar spacer is not listed, p/n 7965 (iirc there is more than one p/n for this part). Plus two cases of Jack Daniels and about $2000 as I have said before. Shimming the date disc seat (calendar spacer) would be the low $$ way to go. The difference between the two movements is about 0.17mm overall and iirc the GMT spacer is about .1mm thicker than a regular date spacer. In reality the sweep second pinion is the same for no date, date, and GMT movements...the tubes on the second hands are made longer for the date movement and longer still for the GMT movement. Hard to find a GMT length ss hand in aftmkt parts although some aftmkt ss hands come with long tubes and they need to be shortened for date and no date movements. There is also an aftmkt 'shortcut' GMT kit for a 1570/5 to GMT conversion with a modified minute wheel that has a 24 hour drive gear added to it plus a 24 hour wheel but you still need the genuine GMT canon pinion, hour wheel, and center wheel to give enough room for the 24 hour hand between the dial and 12 hour hand. Might need to space the dial up a hair too. The 24 hour wheel fit (on top of the 12 hour wheel) is usually a bit sloppy and I have not seen these kits for sale in a few years. If they were properly made, they would have been a little better. Here is a picture of a shortcut kit (top pic): https://rwg.cc/topic/141303-cal-1570-gmt-tell-me-if-i-m-wrong/ Hard to believe the picture is still up.

I looks like an Eta with an aftmkt rotor and red wheels (for looks) and a 24 hour conversion. I have one from 10 or 15 years back with an Eta 2836 and Asian 24 hour conversion. The 24 hour hand is not adjustable on mine and runs half speed in sync with the 12 hour hand.

Super nice! I have seen a couple put together using a tudor jumbo flat side case that looked pretty good.

I believe I posted this before somewhere on the forum: I put an Athaya 700 'no dot' crown on a project watch for someone a while back and the case tube that was supplied with the crown would not screw into the case with oem standard 3.0mm x .35mm threads because the Athaya thread pitch was off a little bit. I ended up using a WSO 990 case tube but it would not screw into the case at first although the thread pitch was correct. I measured the OD of the WSO case tube and it was a hair too big so I polished the threads lightly with Simichrome polishing compound on a stiff 1 inch felt buff in a Dremel tool and it screwed in just fine. The WSO case tube appeared to be high quality and it was made out of stainless steel...eBay item number 161058556624. I just now looked at the WSO 700 case tubes on eBay and they are $50 each or $130 for 3. That's a lot of $$ but it might get you out of a jam. I do not know if this is always the story with the Athaya 700 case tube but iirc this has problem come up before with a few choosing to rethread the case...not the best fix imho. Rule 97: Make the part fit the watch, do not make the watch fit the part.

"I find that exciting if NOOB release a 4130 clone, but how about the reliability of this future movement, when we see the issues reported by a ton of member with the 3135 clone....Needless to say that the Rolex 4130 is a more complicated piece ..." Agree. I believe they could make a high quality '4130' clone movement if they wanted to, but not for $150 or so. If they were able to sell the movements for $500, they could probably do it but that would make the watches cost $1500, maybe $2000. Maybe a better solution for a trouble free, fully functional 'Daytona' type chronograph engine would be quartz with smooth running sub seconds and central timing hand but that would require a high tech company to develop one...not an outfit used to cranking out hit or miss mechanical movements full of fuzz and dust. Ka-Choo! Otoh, my guess is that in another generation or so, mechanical watches will have fallen out of favor (again) and disappeared as a mainstream watch while people wear a version of a smart watch or a quartz watch of some sort. I do not see many people wearing mechanical watches now and have not for quite a while, it just costs too much to keep them running and they are too fragile and needy. Times are changing. Pun! Keep in mind that mechanical watches were nearly dead a few years ago because of the 'quartz crisis' and they were rescued by nostalgia but back then there were still quite a few watch repair shops around and lots of spare parts with lax parts policies compared to today. Today it's '$earch and beg for part$' and it takes 3 credit cards to pay the labor. As for the 'good 3135' clone (Yuki type)...the real reason behind it must have been to fool buyers with the look-alike movement in order to sell a replica watch as genuine. It just happened to be a pretty good movement, unlike the 'other' 3135 clone. Be that as it may, the nuts and bolts reason for someone to suffer the cost and inherent problems of the 'better' 3135 clone is because it is the right size (12.5 ligne) and genuine spec dials/hands/DW will fit. Imho a better solution would be a swiss Eta 28xx with a proper aftmkt DW and high quality aftmkt dial/hands with Eta dial feet (or genuine no foot dial). You can't see the movement anyway.

You can go to a search site, (Bing for example), type in 'rolex 1665' and look at dozens of examples with lug bevels of all types and find all kinds of variations. Lug bevels are hard to do by hand because after you work 2 or 3 hours on one and finally get it right...you still have 3 more to go, and they all need to be the same. Something I have noticed is when bevels are filed/ground/polished on lugs, the lugs often end up looking too thin from the top side and there is no fix for that. Bevels also make the spring bar holes appear to be closer to the top edge of the lug and this can look pretty bad sometimes. The bevel shape and condition also needs to match the overall condition of the watch. It looks like the JKF 1665 has plenty of metal to work with compared to many others. Lug tops are much like crown guards, you have to be very careful or you will mess the case up...and with lug tops you have 4 chances to screw up, not just one. I have tried making/improving bevels on numerous cases and some turned out Ok and some did not. Exercising restraint seems to be the way to go. When using sandpaper to form bevels, a flexible backing on the sandpaper can result in rounded edges on the bevels that do not look right and are not easy to fix. "The bevels in your photos are more pronounced than others I've seen. In some genuine watches the bevels are almost non-existent." I've noticed this too. If there is this much variation in genuine examples, I would say a replica can get away with just about anything within reason. Anyway, that's a good excuse to leave the CG alone on my MBK cases. Some of the most consistent bevels on my cases are on the old 5513/1680 cases from 'Paul' at Abay. The cases have flaws of course but this detail was fairly well done back then (early 2000s).

"Stops me from suffering terminal brain freeze when watching the never ending chaos on the news each morning – like America’s terminal inability to deal with the second amendment for example etc etc etc and the NRA’s solution being that to arm the teachers will solve the problem!!!" To quote a learned man: "The second amendment is not there to prevent a deer uprising." Almost all USA schools are 'Gun Free Zones'. Every lunatic knows this. Maybe that's why they attack schools. Would said lunatic rather attack a school with all teachers armed with a pencil sharpener...or a school with a few range qualified teachers armed with a Glock? What would be your solution? The 15:17 to Paris...

"Guys, what do you think is the best 5513 aftermarket case?!" That is a very, very good question. The problem is there are so many variations and any one 'brand', Yuki or Phong for instance, may not be exactly the same from one example to the next. It's basically the luck of the draw. Imho the best of the best are cases that started out with careful, accurate machining and shaping, are exact oem spec, and detailed by a pro. Correct stamping and engraving make a huge difference too. My guess is after a few years of wear, many high grade 'Frankensteins' will probably jump over into the 'genuine' category after the second or third owner. No telling how many have already made that jump. None of mine have ever been that good for that very reason. Two flaws I would not accept on a high $$ case is when the spring bar holes are drilled too high or low in the lugs or there is not enough 'meat' on the crown guards to 'spec them out' if needed. Amateur 'artificial aging' has ruined a lot of very good cases too. In many instances artificial aging turns out to be the Fatal Modification, turning a $1000 case into a $100 case.

The $400 price was an example. I paid about that much each for two new, running, MBK 1680, one with swiss Eta, hollow mid link bracelet, and one with etaclone and solid mid link bracelet. Parted out they will go for approximately: Around $100 for swiss Eta (looks like new, strong runner, good date wheel, not the usual junk), $40 for the etaclone (date wheel pumps it up). Dial and hands $25. Bezel kit $35 or $40 (I use ST or Clark). Hollow link bracelet, around $100, looks very good. Solid mid link bracelet, about $50, very good clasp. That leaves about $100 in one case and $200 more or less in the other one for an average of $150 each. Add $80 for a bezel kit, $12 for a crystal, $20 for an oem spec case tube, and $5 for gaskets = around $275. Not too bad. I use MBK cases because they accept genuine movements. If it was to be an Eta movement, I would go with a cartel case. If it was going to be a '21 jewel' movement, I would use a cat food can.

Something else to consider is the MBK cases were made to accept genuine 15xx movements (12.5 ligne size) and most of the cartel cases are made to accept Eta 28xx and '21 jewel' movements (11.5 ligne size). A rolex 15xx movement will not go into a 11.5 line spec case because the rolex movement OD is too big.

"Why is MBK case superior to JKF? For the ones I see, the MBK ones still have same the stem position flaw as the JKF." The MBK 5512/13/1680 cases are very close to genuine rolex 1680 spec with one exception...the dial window/dial seat are made for a 26.0mm 5512/13 dial on all three, not a 26.5mm 1680 dial. The crown position in the case is correct for a 1680. If you compare a genuine 5512/13 and a genuine 1680 you will notice the 5512/13 case has a slightly taller reflector (aka rehaut) than a 1680 case and this is because the 1680 has a slightly thicker movement on account of the date works and the whole shebang sits higher in the case...the cases are basically the same on the outside. The thickness difference between a no date and a date 15xx movement is about half a millimeter. If I had the choice of a new MBK 1680 case for $400 and a new Yuki 1680 case for $700, I would go with the Yuki case because of the better engraving on the Yuki case and the fact that the MBK dial window/dial seat need to be enlarged. The dial seat/window should be machined if possible to accommodate a 1680 dial because it is very hard to cut a level dial seat by hand. The dial window can be enlarged with 'Cratex' on a Dremel tool but you need to be very careful as you only need to remove .25mm from the edge (a .25mm cut = .5mm in diameter). I am not familiar with vintage type cases other than older cartel (early 2000s), DW, MBK, Yuki, one Phong, and one IG44. Some of the early cartel cases were very good and accepted genuine spec crystal/bezel sets/case tubes but many had the case back gasket cut in the case like the 1665 sea dweller and most were made for Eta 28xx and 21 jewel Miyota clone movements. The case back gasket groove being in the case really makes no difference other than many of the case backs will have a sharper outer edge because they were made thinner from not needing extra metal to allow room for a gasket groove. One common problem I have seen on a lot of 'cartel' cases is the lug holes will be bored too close to an edge.

I am wearing an MBK '5512' today and one thing that has always bothered me about it is the contour of the CG on the front side where they shield the inner edge of the crown a little bit (genuine 702 crown with just a hair of space between the case when screwed down). I take that back because in reality it did not bother me too much to begin with but so many posters have said the CG on MBK cases need to be modified that I figured they must be pretty bad. So...I went to: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=5512+rolex+history&qpvt=5512+rolex+history&FORM=IGRE ...and looked the various 5512 examples over closely. What I found was maybe 50 that were different from my MBK CG and a few that were exactly like mine. What gives? They are posted by supposedly legit dealers so they should be genuine. Who knows for sure now with all the Frankensteins? I'll go with them being 'genuine' today. Maybe my CG are not as bad as I thought. I did not want to modify the CG because I would have to remove the crown and case tube to change the inner profile and really do not like the idea of grinding on expensive (to me) cases. Also found a few 'thin font' bezel inserts like on the '5512', maybe they are replicas too...or maybe mine is not that bad after all. Now I can wear it outside the house in daylight! What this all boils down to is if you do not like something about your '5512/13/1680' etc, just look at pictures of genuine examples until you find one just like it and... Be Happy!

I posted this in The Rolex Area 2-20-2018 and thought I would also put it here because it will soon be buried: Just for fun, here are some of my cases with prices from the past: March 2011 - like new Yuki 1680 case...$420 from 'Stilty'. Traded it for a like new Phong 1655 case/dial with a member. Still have the 1655 case...stalled out for a long time by GMT movement parts search. Finally have all the parts...around $2500 so far including 1575 movement/GMT parts etc. August 2011 - used DW 5513 case, no case back...$50. Put a 'River' case back from sapphire Exp II and Clark bezel kit on it. Had a 1520 with Yuki dial in it for a while. Put the mvt in an MBK 5513. Still have the DW case. March 2012 - two new MBK 1680 watches from Narikaa...$800 for the pair, delivered. Put a 1575 and Yuki dial in one case for a while, other watch is still complete. One had a nice 93150 bracelet with hollow mid links, other had 93150 with solid mid links. Dials were Ok but had been roughly ground down to fit in 26.0mm dial seat. Machined the dial window on one case for OEM spec 26.5mm 1680 dials. 2011/2012 - about 10 new assorted DW cases, some 5513, some 1680, some unmarked. Paid $150 to $200 for them. All are 1680 spec. Still have them. A lot of posts probably still up about them. September 2013 - one new IG44 1680 case from a member, $300. Best finished case of them all (that I have). The lugs have a slight 'canoe' shape (side view). Have a no hack 1575 and early genuine 1680 dial for it...the mvt/dial combo is in a DW case now. May 2014 - one 5513 and one 5512 case from Yuki plus one 'free' dial...$1100 for it all. Very good cases. Still have them. January 2017 - complete new MBK 5512 watch with 2836 etaclone and bracelet (oyster with riveted on side plates and solid links) from RWG member...$400. Put a Yuki dial and rolex 1570 in it. Notes: All MBK cases (5512/13, 1680) that I have are genuine rolex 1680 spec except they are made for a 26.0mm dial. If you make a 5512/13 with rolex 15xx movement you will need to use a 1575 date calendar spacer, center wheel, and cp. All DW cases (5513, 1680) that I have are genuine 1680 spec and all have a dial seat/window made for a 26.5mm dial. If you make up a 5512/13 you will have to use the date parts same as with an MBK case and there will be a space between the outer edge of the dial and case because of the 1680 spec 26.5mm dial and 26.0mm 5512/13 dial. I have seen pictures and read about early genuine 5512 with a space showing. Someone could make up a pretty good early 5512 with the dial gap and PCG and the rounded sides would add to the character. http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/thread/1468292473/last-1468326320/View+All DW cases are high quality but the sides are rounded like a DJ, not flat, giving them an 'aged' look. The lug holes may be a hair too close to the lug tops when drilled out to 1.3mm or so. The case necks are a hair too small and it is hard to find a 1680 crystal that fits exactly. Making up a 5512/13 is not as bad because T19 crystals come in many sizes (GS crystals for example). DW watches came with 'spring wire' bezels and need a Clark, ST etc. bezel kit. The engraved numbers are Ok but many are unmarked. Some DW cases have undersize case back threads...oem is 30.9mm, some DW are 30.4mm. This is Ok as long as you have a set. MBK cases are very high quality but have laser engraving. In my experience Yuki cases are first class quality, same goes for my one Phong 1655 case. IG44 is hard to beat but IG44 is long gone. I would spend the $$ on a good case if you want a watch to keep. Get one that is OEM spec so if you decide to put a genuine movement in it now or later. A Yuki etc. case with good dial and genuine movement will probably cost between $2200 and $2700 now because of jacked up case/movement prices. You could start out with an ETA 2846 or something and dial made for an ETA then go with a genuine movement later if you want something to wear while looking for a genuine movement etc. Be a good idea to stay away from 'big crown' projects with 1030 base rolex movements because of high $$ parts. The rolex 15xx parts situation is not too bad...yet. ETA is a LOT cheaper. Here is the info on one of my MBK 5513 projects a few years ago, 2011 or 2012 iirc (I have posted this before). It ended up costing about $1300. I still have it but it is apart right now. $300 or less for case (can not remember exact $$, got it from a member) $102 for Yuki dial $25 for TC tube and crown $12 for ST hands $650 for 26 jewel rolex 1520 hack mvt $20 for mainspring etc $0 for c/o (did it myself) $85 for fake 358 hoods and put together '93150' bracelet, also have a folded oyster from 'Mary' that adds up to about the same $12 for GS crystal $68 for ST bezel kit (better fit than MBK bez with the GS crystal that was used) $25 misc...spring bars, gaskets, case screws etc Had to use a 1575 date center wheel/cp and calendar spacer on the 1520 because the MBK 5513 case is made to 1680 spec, not 5513 spec. Extra cost is included with movement. If you want to make up an MBK 5512/13 it would be easier to start out with a date movement (1570/75) and just remove the date works. If you do not want a '5513' with a chronometer movement, many of the early 5512 did not have the 'officially certified chronometer' blurb on the dials and they looked like a 5513 except for the movement and reference number so you could make an early '5512' with a '5513' dial. As far as time keeping...the 1520s I have owned kept time about as good as the 'certified chronometer' 15xx movements. Most have been apart 5 or 10 times by now and very few watch fixers worry with them if they are within 10 or 12 seconds a day. The 1570/5 in my MBK '5512' has gained about 10 seconds since Tuesday and that's pretty good for a 45 or 50 year old no hack movement (most were hack after 1972). The center sweep sec pivot is the same on 1520/30/60/70 and 1575, the date movements have a second hand with a longer tube, GMT second hand tube is longest of all. Good info: https://www.fratellowatches.com/rolex-submariner-5512-vs-5513-which-one-should-you-get/

"What type of material are datewheels made of?" The older dw (cal 15xx) were made out of brass.

"What about the Yuki case that you have sold? I have read that the newest case isn’t like the old one (problem with glued tube if I remember correctly)." The 1680 case was traded away in March or April 2011 not long after I got it and iirc the first case that 'Stilty' got had a problem...glued case tube maybe? Do not remember. The Yuki 1680 case I got from 'Stilty' was Ok. Far as I know the glued case tubes were a long time ago and everything Yuki sells now is just fine. My Yuki 5512 and 5513 case tube threads look good from inside the case with no sign of glue. BTW...all of my MBK cases have the O ring groove in the top of the case for a gasket under the lower (crystal retaining) bezel, my Yuki cases do not. This makes little difference but I did put O ring gaskets in the MBK cases that I used. Early genuine cases did not have the groove for the extra gasket. Something else...my MBK cases are not machined to oem specs where the gasket goes between the case tube and case. The gasket seat in the case is too small to accept an oem gasket. I used a smaller gasket and bought a cutter bit to cut the gasket seat but never did. Do not know what the Yuki cases have as I have not removed the case tubes.

"Ruby reply today , 1680 case is 680$+50$ custom engraving+shipping." Just for fun, here are some of my cases with prices from the past: March 2011 - like new Yuki 1680 case...$420 from 'Stilty'. Traded it for a like new Phong 1655 case/dial with a member. Still have the 1655 case...stalled out for a long time by GMT movement parts search. Finally have all the parts...around $2500 so far including 1575 movement/GMT parts etc. August 2011 - used DW 5513 case, no case back...$50. Put a 'River' case back from sapphire Exp II and Clark bezel kit on it. Had a 1520 with Yuki dial in it for a while. Put the mvt in an MBK 5513. Still have the DW case. March 2012 - two new MBK 1680 watches from Narikaa...$800 for the pair, delivered. Put a 1575 and Yuki dial in one case for a while, other watch is still complete. One had a nice 93150 bracelet with hollow mid links, other had 93150 with solid mid links. Dials were Ok but had been roughly ground down to fit in 26.0mm dial seat. Machined the dial window for the 26.5mm 1680 dial. 2011/2012 - about 10 new assorted DW cases, some 5513, some 1680, some unmarked. Paid $150 to $200 for them. All are 1680 spec. Still have them. A lot of posts probably still up about them. September 2013 - one new IG44 1680 case from a member, $300. Best finished case of them all (that I have). The lugs have a slight 'canoe' shape (side view). Have a no hack 1575 and early genuine 1680 dial for it...the mvt/dial combo is in a DW case now. May 2014 - one 5513 and one 5512 case from Yuki plus one 'free' dial...$1100 for it all. Very good cases. Still have them. January 2017 - complete new MBK 5512 watch with 2836 etaclone and bracelet (oyster with riveted on side plates and solid links) from RWG member...$400. Put a Yuki dial and rolex 1570 in it. Notes: All MBK cases (5512/13, 1680) that I have are genuine rolex 1680 spec except they are made for a 26.0mm dial. If you make a 5512/13 with rolex 15xx movement you will need to use a 1575 date calendar spacer, center wheel, and cp. All DW cases (5513, 1680) that I have are genuine 1680 spec and all have a dial seat/window made for a 26.5mm dial. If you make up a 5512/13 you will have to use the date parts same as with an MBK case and there will be a space between the outer edge of the dial and case because of the 1680 spec 26.5mm dial and 26.0mm 5512/13 dial. I have seen pictures and read about early genuine 5512 with a space showing. Someone could make up a pretty good early 5512 with the dial gap and PCG and the rounded sides would add to the character. http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/thread/1468292473/last-1468326320/View+All DW cases are high quality but the sides are rounded like a DJ, not flat, giving them an 'aged' look. The lug holes may be a hair too close to the lug tops when drilled out to 1.3mm or so. The case necks are a hair too small and it is hard to find a 1680 crystal that fits exactly. Making up a 5512/13 is not as bad because T19 crystals come in many sizes (GS crystals for example). DW watches came with 'spring wire' bezels and need a Clark, ST etc. bezel kit. The engraved numbers are Ok but many are unmarked. Some DW cases have undersize case back threads...oem is 30.9mm, some DW are 30.4mm. This is Ok as long as you have a set. MBK cases are very high quality but have laser engraving. In my experience Yuki cases are first class quality, same goes for my one Phong 1655 case. IG44 is hard to beat but IG44 is looong gone. I would spend the $$ on a good case if you want a watch to keep. Get one that is OEM spec so if you decide to put a genuine movement in it now or later. A Yuki etc. case with good dial and genuine movement will probably cost between $2200 and $2700 now because of jacked up prices. You could start out with an ETA 2846 or something and dial made for an ETA then go with a genuine movement later if you want something to wear while looking for a genuine movement etc. Be a good idea to stay away from 'big crown' projects with 1030 base rolex movements because of high $$ parts. The rolex 15xx parts situation is not too bad...yet. ETA is a LOT cheaper. Here is the info on one of my MBK 5513 projects a few years ago, 2011 or 2012 iirc (I have posted this before). It ended up costing about $1300. I still have it but it is apart. $300 or less for case (can not remember exactly) $102 for Yuki dial $25 for TC tube and crown $12 for ST hands $650 for 26 jewel rolex 1520 mvt $20 for mainspring etc $0 for c/o (did it myself) $85 for fake 358 hoods and put together '93150' bracelet, also have a folded oyster from 'Mary' that adds up to about the same $12 for GS crystal $68 for ST bezel kit (better fit than MBK bez with the GS crystal that was used) $25 misc...springbars, gaskets, case screws etc Had to use a 1575 date center wheel/cp and calendar spacer on the 1520 because the MBK 5513 case is made to 1680 spec, not 5513 spec. Extra cost is included with movement. The center sweep sec pivot is the same on 1520 and 1575, the 1575 second hand has a longer tube.

Thanks for the updates! I can once again post replies to threads, the page no longer runs off the right hand side of the screen. I know, I know, a lot of you were hoping I was gone for good.

Q..."Is it real or not?" A...If it was not 'real' no one could see it. None of my Rolex watches are 'real' anyway. Genuine or not. I can hear you say: "That's Crazy!" Yeah, I know. So, what's that all about? I go strictly by the 'Official Rolex Rules'. 'ORR' #1 states: "A Rolex watch that has been altered in any way is no longer a genuine Rolex watch." Sometimes I remove the sticker from the case back. I've even been accused of setting the time and date. All kidding aside, I always tell the truth about a watch and if anyone is interested, I'll tell them what movement it has etc. Btw...the only brand of watch anyone has ever asked "Is that real?" was the Rolex brand. I guess everyone assumes most 'Rolex' watches are fakeroos and just want to know they are still sharp enough to spot one. Most of the 'Super Replicas' would fool me. I have a 'Long Arm' 39mm Explorer that I doubt I could tell from genuine before I owned it...it's the only later model 'Rolex' I have so I don't know much about them. All mine are older models (early 2000s back). 'Long Arm' = correct hands, not too short. The first genuine models looked to me like they had 'Short Arms'. Have an older style replica steel quartz 'Cartier Santos Galbée' that I have worn now and then for 15+ years and no one has ever paid any attention to it. Also had a genuine tutone quartz Santos and the replica looked just as good so I traded the genuine watch away...genuine was $1700 new in 1990 vs $75 for the replica 10 or 12 years later. Genuine had an ETA movement, replica has a Hattori (Seiko). Have a steel quartz replica 'Cartier Tank Francaise' and no one ever asked about it either.

Some of us probably have one or two vintage omegas with acrylic crystals and they are usually a hassle to work with because the crystals are not easy to find and the aftmkt is not much help. So...here is a little bit of info on them: You can use the Otto Frei website for omega crystal part numbers because it is accurate and easy to use: OMEGA WATCH CRYSTALS OMEGA WATCH CRYSTALS Otto Frei web site www.ofrei.com, created by Bob Frei contains over 12,000 items for the watch, clock and Jewelr... For regular 'snap in' type crystals, I measure the crystal seat outer diameter and go from there. 'snap in' = the type of crystal commonly referred to as the GS brand PHD type. Example: If the crystal seat is 30.0mm in diameter the proper crystal will be 30.1mm or 30.2mm and they are installed using a 'crystal lift' or a press that has a cup with a tapered inside edge...the crystal goes up against the tapered cup and a plunger with a small padded tip is pushed (by the press) up into the center of the crystal to effectively shrink the outside diameter of the crystal by forcing the domed center up inside the cup. Install the crystal by placing the crystal into the crystal seat in the case and release the pressure on the press. A 'crystal lift' is an expanding claw type tool that compresses the outer edge of the crystal...often leaving marks that may cause a leak on WR cases. They are cheap and good for removing a crystal that will be discarded or on a crystal that does not need to be water resistant for more than hand washing. Here are some of the different crystal types: http://www.ofrei.com/page_168.html Here is an example of a cheapo crystal/case back press with tapered edge cups and plungers: eBay item number 380890016220 Many vintage omegas use an acrylic crystal similar to the GS 'ET' type armored crystal. The problem is some omegas have a 'stepped' reflector ring/tension ring and it must be used in the replacement crystal or use an oem spec crystal. Catch 22...many omegas have a 'mushroom' shaped acrylic armored crystal that presses into the case with the removable bezel already placed on the case (if it has a removable bezel). 'Removable' = the bezel can be removed with the crystal on the case but one of two things will usually happen: 1...The bezel will be bent from the pressure needed to remove it along with the crystal at the same time. It forces the crystal out of the case at the same time because the bezel will not come off over the 'mushroom' shaped crystal. 2...The crystal will be 'shaved' when the bezel ring is forced out basically ruining it and this can also allow the bezel to fall off later on. The bezel does not hold the crystal to the case...the crystal holds the bezel down on the case. You see this type of construction on many vintage dress type omega 'seamasters' that have a one piece case with the movement coming out the front side. How are you supposed to remove the crystal? Use a Bergeon 5011 crystal pump or something similar that pressurizes the case through the case tube and pops the crystal out without damage to the crystal or movement. The crown comes out by pulling out on it to uncouple the two piece stem. Note: Sometimes the forked end of the stem will break and they are hard to find. https://www.esslinger.com/bergeon-5011-watch-pressure-crystal-removing-pump/

I changed out fifty (50) #377 batteries (aka cells) in identical watches made between January 1997 and July 2001 this weekend (they all had mfg date stamps inside the case backs). Not one of them had leaked one bit so if anyone wonders how long you can leave a watch with a dead battery in it, the answer is around 20 years, maybe more...IF it is a Sony battery. Do not know for sure about other brands. These were cheapo watches with plastic heat welded $5 Hattori (Seiko) PC21 analog movements and every movement still ran when a new battery was installed. I have changed thousands of batteries (no kidding) over the years and have not found a lot of leaks in the past 20 years or so. Before that, quite a few leaks. Seiko and their sister brand Seizaiken hardly ever leak along with Energizer but a few other brands have not been as good (in my experience), one being Maxell, especially the first few runs of 'no mercury' batteries. I bought 200 Maxell 'no mercs' and about 50 of them were already leaking a powdery residue when I removed them from their blister packs...this was about 6 years ago. We used to buy the regular Maxell batts in packs of 500 and we never had very much trouble with them. My guess is they have fixed the 'no merc' battery leaks because Maxell is a quality brand. Had bad luck with quite a few Ray-O-Vacs, have not seen any in a while though. Had a few Renata leaks too. Panasonic is very good. I still have a few thousand nos watches that have been stored 12 or 15 years that have Seizaiken batteries and I am hoping they are all Ok too. They were made by SII (Seiko) and they all came with Seizaiken #377 batts. The 50 watches mentioned above were made by/for the 'Majestron' brand and the assembly factory used Sony batts. Disney etc character watches that were made by SII a few years ago all came with Seizaiken batts. Each battery in the 'Majestron' watches had a foam pad stuck to the battery to keep the batt in place although the PC21 is not prone to have a batt fall out. FYI... We used to pay 13 cents each for #377 Seizaiken batteries by the thousand and now they are 18 cents each by the thousand or 15 cents each if you buy 5000. Inflation. Maxell batts were about 4 or 5 cents more each. We used these two brands most of all. The biggest Seizaiken #377 battery order we ever made was 25,000 in 2012 and they were 12 cents each, free delivery. The batteries that were removed from approximately 25,000 watches brought over $600 from a battery recycler...forgot how much they weighed. When I changed the 50 batts out this weekend, I got down to r/r a batt in about 70 seconds. Remove the watch from the box, pry the back off, remove the old batt, stick the new batt in, press the back on with a bench press, set the time. Q...How long did it take to change all 50? A...About two and a half hours. Some were stubborn and I dropped some stuff.

I have been on 3 replica watch forums in the past 20 years and two of them fizzled out completely after a few years. Now it looks like this one may be on the way out judging by the drop in posting and fewer project threads. Exactly why this is happening, I do not know for sure but today's high prices probably have a lot to do with it. Not good. I am sure smart phones and Apple watches have pulled many potential 'watch guys' away from this 'hobby' too but maybe quite a few replica watch buyers have been bummed out over the junk that passes for movements in so many replica watches today and abandon replicas all together after one or two tries. I really can not blame them. Not good. It is true that today's replicas are much better on the outside but junk movements on the inside may be the death knell to the 'hobby' in general. Not good. It is hard to beat a clean, fresh ETA in a nice case but they cost too much now so hit or miss etaclones and '17 jewel' junk has taken their place. Not good. Otoh vintage 'Frankenstein' rolex watches are probably as popular as ever but many of them are put together to sell as genuine. Not good. All imho.

This is from a message I sent to 'bobandshawn' 12-13-17 pertaining to his post about MBK case tubes in the General Discussion section: I have 4 MBK cases made in the last 5 to 7 years and they all have the correct oem spec threads in the case (3.0mm x .35mm). 'The Catch' (there is always a catch with replica parts)...the MBK case tube gasket seat cut in the case was not oem spec on any of the cases so they either have to me machined to spec or an alternate gasket used. I used an alternate gasket because it was easier and I do not plan to put the watches in water. The MBK cases are 5512, 5513 and two 1680...they are all absolutely identical except for reference numbers, all have dial window openings made for 26.0mm 5512/13 dials and need to be cut a little bit bigger if a 26.5mm 1680 spec dial is used so it will not be shielded by the reflector (rehaut) because it can shave the outer tips of the minute markers off. Q...What is the fix to make an oem spec gasket seat? A...Cut the gasket seat in a milling machine or drill press to spec with the appropriate cutter bit. I have a milling machine and cutter but never took the time to machine any of the cases. I looked for the cutter in order to give the size but could not find it right away. As usual. note: I finally found the end mill, it is 4.0mm and the base of the oem spec case tube (ST) is 3.9mm where the gasket seats against the tube. I do not remember what the alternate gasket size was but it came from a miniature O ring assortment. What you need to be careful about is to make sure the gasket is not cut or squeezed too much when the case tube is tightened down. I use case tubes from Star Time as they are high quality and oem spec. Something else...another member sent his case to me a while back (not an MBK case) to have an Athaya 'no dot' 7mm replica crown and tube set fitted. The threads in the case were oem spec (3.0mm x .35mm) but the Athaya tube was not oem spec at all (where it screwed into the case) so we ordered three aftmkt 'no dot' case tubes from WSO990. The WSO case tubes were oem spec except ('The Catch' again!) the threads on the tube where it screws into the case were the correct pitch and depth but the outside diameter was a hair too big to screw into the case without the chance of binding or breaking. Q...What is the fix? A...Polish the OD of the threads down with Simichrome polish using a stiff 1 inch buff wheel on a Dremel tool, it did not take very much. Q...So...What's 'The Catch'? A...The Athaya crown fits the WSO990 case tube just fine after polishing the tube but the 'telescope' clutch in the crown was not sealed to the crown cap and the crown cap gasket did not do its job and allowed water to flood the case. Imho aftmkt crowns are not always good to use if you plan to get the watch wet. Case tubes are an exception and many of the current aftmkt tubes are as good or superior to oem, especially aftmkt stainless 5.3mm case tubes compared to oem nickel silver tubes...imho. Also...the 'no dot' Athaya crown will not work with a standard 'three dot' modern type triplock case tube even after 'serious modification' because the 'three dot' tube is a lot taller. I have not tried to shorten one at the top but after you cut the top down to the threads, the base of the tube below the threads will still be too tall because of the space needed to cut a gasket groove on the lower part of the tube for the 'dust and grit' gasket. A genuine 7mm 'no dot' case tube should have worked just fine with the Athaya crown but like the cutter bit, I could not find one at the time. Still have not found them.

Slow times for the forum so I wrote some fodder to ponder: Interesting... http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?81296-Rolex-1680-5513-1675-mid-cases-with-erm-big-problems&s=307e5c82219e956072b42b2a59284afb I would say the cases are probably genuine but without legible serial numbers it does not matter a whole lot as most buyers will claim Fake! just to get the lowest price. I have seen a lot (and owned a few) old rolex watches with the serial/reference numbers worn away by the hoods and it is usually easy to tell the watches were original to begin with. Now that 'near perfect' replica cases are being made, this is much more of a problem. Would a high grade unsigned vintage style replica rolex case be worth a lot less that the same supposedly genuine case with no numbers? I would say 'No' (in the real world) without absolute proof of some sort that the 'no number genuine case' is 'genuine' for sure...and absolute proof would be very hard to come by. But...just the hope that the no number case could be genuine can boost the value. Something else to think about...take a 'naturally aged' low mileage YukiPhong 5512/13 case with a 1970s serial number, genuine dial, movement, crown with crisp bevels, thick lugs etc and many 'experts' will bust it as Fake! right off the bat (naturally aged = aged by use, not by attacking it with hammer and tongs). Why? Probably because of the excellent condition. They can not help it because they are conditioned to do so. Take the same YukiPhong watch, aged and all with a '444' serial number and many of the same 'experts' will pass it as a genuine rolex recased watch. Why? Because it is a '444'. Detail differences can be explained because "New '444' cases are not 100% the same as they were in the 1970s, everyone knows that." Perception is reality in the watch biz. How else could the swissies get $25k for a $2000 watch? Why is perception reality? Because it is all we have.

Found this internet forum 'For Sale' ad (can't remember which forum) from March 7, 2000 when looking up my WLD deal info: "A watchmaker friend of mine has about 50 or so empty Rolex watch cases. The movements were gutted for Hong Kong made all gold Presidents. Most of the cases are ref 15000. If you email me with what cases you are looking for, I can try to see if he has it & then email you back with info. I will only choose good quality cases. I can have them buffed for $30 each. I would sell these for around $120 to $150 buffed. The cases come with bezel & crown & crystal." I bought some cases for similar prices around this time at watch shows (w/bezel, crystal, no crown) but I got 162xx DJ type. The watch buyer/case seller guys used the base movement (either 3035 or 3135) and converted them to Day/Date models using non genuine (China made?) DD conversions and dials. I saw some of them for sale at watch shows and they looked pretty good. They went for $4000 and up depending on the bezel and dial. Similar watches with ETA 2834 were $2000 to $2500 at the time. Gold was around $270 per troy oz in 2000. I bought a steel sapphire lady DJ case from a case seller on the 'net back then and the case was $80 for a quick set model with bezel, sapphire crystal, no crown...delivered. The first case was not as good as described and the guy said to keep it and sent me another one (free) that looked like new...a two-fer. They were making 18k lady models too. Lady 18kyg rolex watches always looked to me like a quartz lady Seiko. Ladies would probably be better off with a Seiko because it will still be running the next morning...but it ain't a ro-lex. Ha! Never had much luck with lady rolex watches. How come? 'Cause there ain't enough rotor to crank the motor.

"Automatico wins." I lied. I looked it up and the WLD fiasco started December 5, 2002 at 8:37am est so it has only been about 15 years. I'll return the prize.