automatico

Seventeen years. Still waiting on WLD (watchloverdavid) to send a couple watches. ?

...why vintage rolex Frankensteins are now a 'viable alternative' to the genuine article? Maybe this has something to do with it: Rolex Historic Restoration department Has anyone dealt with Rolex Historic Restoration Department in Geneva? If so, any suggestions? I need a dial for an early datejust, and I will be in Geneva at the end of the month. So, I called Rolex. I was told: 1) I can talk to the watchmaker at the front desk to verify that the watch is real (no big deal, as I know it is) 2) An ESTIMATE costs 1000 CHF ($1,000) - just for an estimate! (1000 CHF = $1000.03 USD) 3) Restoration will probably run between 15,000 and 30,000 CHF And all I need is a DIAL - I don't want anything else to be touched. I really had my heart set on having Rolex help me, but, honestly, for that much money, I can buy a mint early 4467 and pull the dial. No Parts For You! Q...Getting a GMT of mine serviced and my watchmaker has informed me that Rolex has stopped supplying GMT specific parts to parts account holders. Can anybody else confirm? A1...Both Omega and Rolex have stopped supplying parts to third parties. Companies like Startime and Otto Frei no longer sell any Genuine parts. Both companies are also tightening up the parts supply chains to AD's and Private Watchmakers. They have closed the supply chain to many small watchmakers and AD's. Not all AD's and not all Privates, but the ability to get parts has become significantly more difficult in recent months and only going to get more difficult... A 2...I am told no more movement parts for GMTs along with Daytona, Oysterquartz ,Sky Dweller or Yachmaster II. For Sale: A NOS never installed 1675 GMT tritium hand set. No corrosion or missing paste. $775.00 shipped world wide 　 Up for sale tropic 22 Superdomed for Explorer 1016, Nos and sealed, $450. Up for sale early pair of 50 endlinks for 1675 PCG GMT, Mint used conditions, $390. Up for sale 1655 Explorer II Bezel, Service Type, Flawless, $490.- 　 FS: very nice faded MFF-insert for 1675. 5Up for sale is this nice faded MegaFatFont insert. 1. My price is 1800 EUR net to me, incl. worldwide shipping. 2. Faded Fat Font bezel for 1675 16750 - $1600 　 FS: Beautiful faded fat fonts Rolex GMT 1675 insert. Asking $2,250 net by wire shipped worldwide. 　 FS : R O L E X 1675 GMT Date Wheel US $350. 　 A Rolex MK4 bezel and case back for Explorer II 1655. Both are in nice used condition. BEZEL PRICE $750.00 shipped. (case back sold, price deleted in listing) 　 FS: Cal.1520 Auto-Wind Module, Complete. Near Mint. Recently serviced and in near-mint condition, this auto-wind module is fully functional and ready to be installed. $525, including domestic shipping in the US. For sale is a Rolex 1520 movement. Very clean. Movement is complete except for one part (small part that clips the rotor on from the inside). Price is $790 Firm. (not bad at all compared to the AW assembly alone...different sellers) Genuine Rolex leather bracelet (strap) and 18k solid gold buckle - $700. 　 You are looking at a very rare set of ref #1019 milgauss hands. Beautiful mellow patina. $2300. 　 FS: SuperLuminova Submariner 1680 Dial for sale. PRICE: $990 with free US shipping. 　 FS: Mint 1016 tritium dial + hands - 1300 EUR shipped worldwide. 　 FS Rare Big Logo First type Oyster rivet 6636 SS ,12 link, bracelet marked 1.59 with 65 end link in good conditions! My request is 4500 euro shipped WW. 　 I have for sale this rare early elastic(spring load)Rolex rivet bracelet from 1957(inside clasp stamped 4 57) with 65 end pieces. Just back from refinishing/polishing/tighten. 5+7 links in total. The links are tight, very nice overall. Asking $5,000 by wire transfer.　 　 FS: Extra rare Rolex straight end Rivet bracelet from 1950. 19mm Rolex straight end spring load Rivet bracelet. Asking $3,750 by wire shipped worldwide. 　 For sale is a 1969 7206 rivet bracelet. Price is $1,290 firm. 　 FS - rolex 7206 in straight ends - 20mm, clasp in 67's - 10 links with normal stretch - $2800. 　 Rare 9315 rolex pat. pend bracelet, 11 links with limited stretch, end links in 285, specially for early 1665 mark 1/2 models. 70s on clasp code, offer $2900 include shipping. All postings are from VRM, a few edits for clarity/typos, none on prices. Italics are my comments.

I have spent the last 10 years away from doing hardly any work at all on genuine rolex watches belonging other people because of the 'no parts for you' situation but have recently been talked into working on some 'outsider' watches with cal 15xx movements purchased by 'watch friends'. (With friends like this...Ha!) Have also looked in a lot of genuine watches lately. So...what's new? 1...There is a lot more junk now than there was 10 years ago. 2...A lot more botch jobs are showing up, probably due to high repair prices. 3...A lot of worn out movement parts are still being used in a lot of watches...reversers, rotor axles etc, probably because of 'npfy'. One example: Looked at a 1601 DJ with the hands out of correspondence (hour hand at 12, minute hand at 30 minute mark). It had been dropped, hit on the back, and the minute hand fell down a little bit. The owner cranked the time around later on trying to set it and moved the minute hand out of whack. He also said he had to hand wind it (before the drop) because it would no longer auto wind. He bought it a few months ago and the seller claimed it had been 'recently cleaned'. It looks clean and the balance has good motion so that is probably true. There was a screw jammed between the winding rotor and the case back. Q...Where did it come from? A...It was one of the lower autowind plate screws. Q...How did it get out? A...The whole a/w assembly was loose on the movement along with every other screw I checked from the back side except for the two casing screws. Q...How come? A...Either whoever put it together did not tighten the screws enough or the owner has been mowing, riding his H-D (Ha!) or doing something with a whole lot of shakin' goin' on. Who knows? I'll ask but they never know...or tell. My takeaway from seeing the junk and botch jobs is: 1...If you have a nice genuine vintage rolex or Frankenstein with a good genuine movement...keep it because the pickings are getting very slim and much more expensive. 2...Some of the work is not as good as it used to be, maybe because so many of the better repair guys have left the trade. Maybe they left because of 'npfy'. 3...There ain't no mo affordable vintage rolex parts.

A few answers: "Are you doing this because of stem height?" Yes. Thought about machining the dial seat a little bit deeper but it may make the case deck too thin so I will try this first. "Why don't you just use a felsa 4007?" Do not have one and am familiar with eta. I have put a few Frankenetas together and they usually work Ok. Most of the time. Thought about an eta 2450. May try one later on but they are 10.5" and the 28xx is 11.5" so I would need to whittle out another spacer. "So, you gonna make a "low beat" 2824? I've never gotten that bored..." I refuse to be outsmarted by a case. This time. The last 20 times do not count. This is all JMB's fault. Having to use a movement no one ever heard of...eta 282446. Btw...the combo movement is together and running.

There is a lot of mystery about 904L. It goes for $900 to $2500 per ton depending on how much you buy so at $2000 a ton it would make the metal in one watch cost about $2 or so allowing for waste. The more you buy, the cheaper it gets and 904L is nothing special at all. I have some seamless 904L tubing that I had cut for making bezels and a foot of it was a couple dollars. It costs a lot more to machine it than to buy it.

The JMB '1016' case that is. Finally got around to putting one together. Here is what I decided to use (by trial and error): Swiss eta 2824 plates Swiss eta 2846 (day/date) balance assembly, escape wheel, pallet fork and all train wheels. Remove all D/D parts. Put 2846 balance complete in 2824. Use taller Swiss eta 2846 cp and hour wheel. Standard calendar spacer if needed. I'll take them apart and put one combo movement together and see how it goes and post the results. It will take a while because I have other things to do. PS: Somebody post something, it's getting awful quiet around here.

"IMHO a bit pricey @ $1499 USDs for SW200 but I like!" "Me likey but not enough to spend that kind of coin on it. For that price it's competing with Glycine, Tissot, Waltham and Fortis Marinemaster Super Compressors. Those are dangerous odds." "can't get my arms around the price point as we all agree but this look on the nylon strap well I could get stupid one night..." Yep. I can not climb on their bandwagon, they cost too much...that and the fact their name begins with the letter O. When I think of Oris, I remember all the pin lever junk they cranked out for so many years. Maybe they could come out with a similar watch in a pot metal case with a 1 jewel movement for $79.

Saw this 1675 for sale on VRF and the bleacher bums bombed it. The rounded lug tops, third class sandpaper job on the lug tips, and no wear on the mid case between the lugs do not help authenticity imho but I can not help but wonder who is this bird referring to when he said: "Well known fake font. I'd like to have better pictures but I got my own idea..." I assume he is referring to the numbers/letters between the lugs. I am not well versed on replica cases because 'close enough' is Ok for me but the remark made me curious.

"I have seen a pair of these at 80usd on Ebay !" ST and a few other USA supply houses have swiss made spring bars identical to oem for less than $2 each. They should be available from watch material supply houses in France too. Your watch probably had lower quality China made spring bars...they are $29.95 for 90 assorted sizes from ST. Rolex does not make their own spring bars. http://www.startimesupply.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Category_Code=1D_Rolex_SBars_Asst&Product_Code=RP23-16613S

Three of my watch-fixer friends were Accutron specialists from the 1960s up until they started disappearing from wrists. All three used the same method to clean dirty index wheels on old 'Rattytrons' without taking them apart (me too): Run a small drop of hairspring cleaner (One Dip etc) down a needle or small oiler onto the index wheel a time or two to rinse the dirt away (do not touch the index wheel teeth if at all possible). If it hums and just will not run, this may get it going. If it does not hum, check the batt (making sure it is 'upside down'), contacts, coils, and circuit. If the watch runs up until the date is changing and stalls out but the second hand still moves (218), it is usually the canon pinion...turn it over. How? remove the hands and dial, then remove the hour wheel and look at it...easy to see how to do it. The 218 quick sets the date, many do not know it and this is why so many canon pinions are loose. Do Not turn the sweep second hand backwards with a brush, tool etc when working around the watch with the movement out of the case or the crystal removed, it might/will bend the index and pawl jewel springs (the springs were supposedly made from hairspring material). Do not leave a running 218 'hacked' for long. If you do much work on them, you will probably need a microscope...and lay off coffee and energy drinks. A regular 214 can be turned into a pretty good Spaceview using Clark's crystal and hands. Sometimes you will need a 'skeletonized' minute chapter ring though. I learned enough about A-trons to get by but will not fool with one now unless I have to. Trivia: Remember what Crocodile Dundee said: "That 218 is not an Accutron. This 214 is an Accutron!" Don Johnson wore a steel 214 Spaceview on 'Nash Bridges'. http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/acc.htm

I have posted a few times about the old DW submariner cases with the rounded sides as being 'Pot Belly' cases because the sides are slightly rounded like a DJ making them not as popular as better cartel or MBK cases. Things change but cartel cases are still hit or miss from one order to another, MBK cases are hard to find, and Yuki/Phong cases ain't cheap and ain't getting any cheaper. Well...it turns out DW cases may not be so bad after all. I have been seeing a lot of genuine 5512/13/1680 watches with Pot Belly sides caused by wear and not-so-pro polishing and most are being priced waaay up there now. Examples: http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1501595158/FS-+Rolex+Submariner+ref.+5513+‘Meters+First’ http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1454128322/fs-+meters+first+1680+tropical+red+sub+with+box+and+papers+-+%2426%2C000 ($26,000 Shaaazam!!) So...if you have a DW case hidden away in a drawer it might be worth a second chance to make a 'high mileage' project watch or to put up for sale. Matter of fact they would make a very good 'aged' project watch without much aging at all. Pros: high quality finish reasonable prices (usually) case back stamping usually Ok, some have no stamping at all good fit with genuine rlx 1570/75 date movement and 26.5mm dial Cons: case neck usually a hair too small but by using an oem spec bezel kit and swapping aftmkt crystals around, a fix can usually be found case back threads may be oem 30.9mm or non oem 30.4mm, both having the same stamping all cases (all I have seen) are 1680 spec even if stamped 5512/13 (26.5mm dial opening) case letters/numbers between lugs can be from Ok to awful to none at all originally came with spring wire bezels (all I have seen) crown guards aka 'rat ears' need a little attention lug holes need to be drilled

"I wouldn't buy my gen Rollies for the prices that the market demands now." Me neither. It must be Greenhorn 'collectors' with too much $$ buying them. I would have more pride in a F-stein or project watch that I put together for a few hundreds bucks even if it is not genuine because anyone with enough $$ can buy a genuine example. Not many can put a watch together from a conglomeration of parts from hither and yon. I would venture to guess that RWG has more watch guys that can do most of the actual watch work than any other watch forum. The average genuine rolex forum guy has trouble screwing a crown down. Q...Who has the best sub? A...US Navy.

"I am wondering if I could fit a gen Datejust 1601 dial into a 36mm made for ETA 2836 case?" Anyone ever wonder why they made the 'pie pan' dials in the first place? Because in the 1960s 'thin was in' and they made the 'pie pan' dial so the movement could be mounted higher in the case in order for the watch case to be made thinner. Omega 'pie pan' Constellations of this era were made the same way for the same reason. That being said, when using a 'pie pan' dial with an aftmkt case made for an eta 2836, there should be plenty of room for it all to go together. Maybe someone on the forum has made up a watch with a genuine 'pan' dial and an eta 2824 or 2836 and will chime in with how it went. I have never put a watch like this together so I am no help. I have stuck a few later model sapphire DJ projects together and I always use an eta 2836 because there is more room for the DWO. Looks like the main question is: Does it need a 2824 or 2836? I do not know for sure but I do know this...a 1575 date movement with a 'flat top' dial will fit into a case made for a 3035 date movement and flat top dial. One example is a 1575 movement and 'flat top' dial from a reference 1500 will fit right into a 15000 case made for a 3035. So...(by deduction), if a 2836 with a 'flat top' dial will fit into a rolex case made for a 1575 (genuine spec 1680 for example), it means a 2836 should fit in your DJ project case made for a 2836 although the 'pie pan' dial might allow the movement to mount a fraction of a mm higher in the case. What this all boils down to is you might have to try to find details on a similar project on the forum or wait for a member to give an answer...StoneP comes to mind. https://rwg.cc/topic/182885-super-franken-rolex-datejust-1601/#comment-1458304 "It's likely the 2836 will need a movement ring." Yes, a spacer similar to what is needed for putting an eta in a 1680 because except for the dial size, 1600 and 1680 cases are are the same internally. Something else to consider is a date wheel overlay...you will need one and they come with their own set of obstacles, fully explained on the forums. I just now measured a genuine 1601 dial and it is 27.9mm in diameter.

Trivia from here (RWG) and there. No guarantees for accuracy. Vickers scale of hardness: 24K Red Gold 160 Aluminum 167 Magnesium 175 18K Gold 216 Silver 251 Copper 369 Stainless Steel 400 Lanthanum 491 Hublonium AG5 500 Platinum 549 Iron 608 Tantalum 873 Zirconium 903 Titanium 970 Magic gold 1100 Tungsten 3430 Ceramic 6200 (used by Hublot; Zirconium Oxide) The Sub-Date used 316 steel up to and including the 16800. The 168000, introduced ca. 1988 was the first Sub-Date to use 904L. The change to 904L occurred in the other models but it started in the late 80s with the Sub-Date. 24-700 crown is a no-dots twinlock crown. You'll need a tube with threads going all the way to the end of the tube for this (24-7000-0). 24-702 crown is a triplock 3 dots crown; the crown has threads extending all the way to the opening and the tube is without the O-ring gasket on the exterior, but the threads only go to about 3/4 of the tube with a [censored] at the end (24-7020-0). 24-703 crown is a triplock 3 dots crown. This crown requires the tube with the exterior O-ring gasket; the crown threads stop mid way inside the crown to accomodate the tube's exterior gasket (24-7030-0). There is also a 24-703 monobloc/24-704. Same as the above 24-703, except of 1 piece design (the crowns prior were a wrap design) and these are easily identified by the size of the coronet on the top of the crown (short and squat while the 2pc. is a long coronet). Requirements for minimum thicknesses for watch cases in the various materials. All require not less than 10 karat fineness: Gold filled - thickness throughout of not less than three one-thousandths of an inch. This equates to not less than 76 micron in thickness, (approximately the thickness of a sheet of photocopy paper). Rolled gold plate - thickness throughout of not less than one and one-half one thousandths of an inch. This equates to not less than 38 micron in thickness. Gold electroplate - 20 micron is considered heavy for modern electroplating, and much plating is 5 micron or less. German Silver (nickel silver), is an alloy of 60 percent copper, 20 percent nickel, and 20 percent zinc V72 hand sizes Hour 1.60 min 1.09 center chrono 0.25 sub-second 0.23 sub-minutes 0.25 sub-hours 0.28 V7734/6 Hour 1.45 min 0.95 center chrono 0.30 sub-second 0.20 sub-minutes 0.30 sub-hours 0.21 V72, V727 and more advanced V7750 series have all the same dimension specs. If I remember well its something like 13 lines and around 6,5mm thickness All these movements fits in all kind of cases. When DW or Yuki talk about Daytona cases made only to match with V72, its not wrong but a wrong description. Rolex drilled 2 more holes at different location in the V72 movement plate to fix it into the case. R.C.Spielmann company who made cosmograph cases for Rolex machined cases according these new fixation features. But a V7750 can be fitted into a Rolex specs case. The difference between the full chrono functions and the faux subdial at 6: The subdial spacing is slightly different between V72 series and V7750 series. In these reps powered by Seagull, the Seagull movement has the same 9 and 3 subdial spacing like the V72/727 but no hours counter function. It result the faux subdial with a faux hand at 6. The full chrono functions reps using a 7750 have a slightly different subdial spacing -around half a millimeter. Gen dials or aftermarket dials with exact Rolex specs don't fit. Dials made for Daytona reps powered with the 7750 are specific. "Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors--when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you--when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed." --Francisco d'Anconia in Atlas Shrugged Newer = Better: 116610LV Oyster Perpetual Submariner Date (why not just OPSD?) 40mm, stainless steel, pressure proof to 1000 feet (from the boat dock...horizontally) Special time-lapse Cerachrom bezel (gotta have it!...because it's 'special'). 31 jewel chronometer movement ($7000 better than an Eta!) Synthetic sapphire crystal (same as found in most replicas!). Special Glidelock clasp and Oyster bracelet 97200 (Glidelock! can't beat it!...except for the old style sheet metal models). All for only $9050.00!! (plus tax). BS or not? (mostly from RWG) A genuine watch IS overpriced at list price if none or very few will sell at list price while the exact same watch will sell in quantity for 20%, 30% or 40% less than list price. Example...try to sell an Invicta at list price. They will fly at 70% or 80% off though. A watch is not overpriced if the entire production or most of it will sell at list price. Some buyers will pay list price for a watch and others will not buy without a discount, that's just the way it is. Some buyers believe list price is Ok because it makes the item seem to be more valuable (to them) while others will not pay list price because the watch is not worth as much as list price (to them). I remember reading on one of the genuine watch forums a few years ago about a guy who had his mind set to buy an Omega SMP and had found one at an AD for $1700 or so. He was going to buy it the next day. That evening he and his wife went to Costco and while the wife was shopping for groceries, the guy went to look at watches and found a new in box omega SMP for $1350. Which one did he buy? The one for $1700 because he said "The lower price at Cosco tarnished his image of the SMP" because to him it was a $1700 watch. I laughed out loud because the minute he sized the bracelet and put the watch on...he then owned a $1000 watch no matter how much he paid. As for me, I would not pay over 20 to 30 cents on the list price dollar for most new in box (rolex) watches unless I could sell it for a profit. That's about all they are worth to me if I had to own one. I knew an AD and could get just about any new rolex for cost (except Daytonas) as long as I promised not to immediately flip it. In 20 years, the only one I bought at cost was a sapphire GMT II. I never wore it but sold it about 12 years later and bought a 1675. So... The question was...remove all branding and lay a replica and genuine watch down beside each other. This means all production, advertising, delivery and after sales cost are irrelevant. The cheaper unmarked replica watch would probably out sell the higher price unmarked genuine watch by a large margin until the reputation of the replica was ruined by poor QC, WR, reliability, no service, warranty etc. APB: Anyone have a Yuki 1680 case number 2835577? Stilty bought it new and later traded it to me (without mvt or dial) and I traded it to another member, no telling where it is now. Still have the 16xx DJ the movement came out of...serial number 2835577. T or F? The original Noob watches were assembled in Thailand. Now the new ones are strictly from China. Top of the line 'Noob' Submariner = F520117 serial number and out of production since around 2007. Same watch as some 'TWB', 'Beginmariner', WBK etc. True: Before Ducatis, I rode 2 cycle Allstates...Mo Ped, 125, and 175. Like this: http://www.bikesrestored.com/4522/allstate-puch-175-1958/allstate175-1958-5/

High grade pink sapphire is the same no matter where it comes from. ST has two grades of sapphire crystals...Asian 'B' quality and Swiss 'A' quality. The Swiss crystals are every bit as good as oem. Rolex does not make their crystals, afaik Stettler Sapphire AG still makes them.

Something else to jack the crown away from the case... Genuine cases with 5.3mm and 6.0m crowns/tubes have small washers made of some sort of silver between the case tube and case. This is what seals the tube to the case. The washers are very hard to get for regular 6.0mm case tubes but some aftmkt 5.3mm case tubes have them included. Brass dial washers will work as a last resort. ...or K&W Copper Coat. Ha! Do not know or care about the later model stuff because as far as I am concerned, RWC stopped making watches in the 1980s. ...or was it the 1970s? Quick set! What the hell is a quick set? Who cares what day it is anyway? What will they think of next, solid bracelet end links?

JMB: "I would bet a good portion of Automatico's stash that it's for a 2836 if it came from fleabay..." Good bet. You can't lose! But...if you do lose the bet, I get to pick which portion I give up because I have four 30 gallon plastic tubs half full of DOA-NOS quartz fashionista watches...the 'winner' pays shipping. The tubs are half full because they were so heavy, I could not carry a full tub across the parking lot to the dumpster in the hot sun and my truck was closer. Why did I not just drive them to the dumpster? That is a moot point. I thought they just needed a battery...but they need a battery and a movement. Looks like I missed my one chance to get rid of them when I loaded them in my truck instead of the dumpster.

Do not know about Florida but they call them Texas Timex down in Texas from what I hear. Saw a guy from Dallas at a watch show 20+ years ago who had a bunch of yellow gold Day Date models in a brown paper bag that he had taken in at his pawn shop. I asked why he had them in a paper bag and he said: "To keep from getting robbed in the parking lot, nobody pays attention to a guy with a paper bag." I was wearing a yellow gold E. Gubelin on a leather strap at the flea market a while back and a guy said: "That's a purdy watch, whur'd-ye-git-it-at?" I said: "Wal Mart." He said: "Yeeeah, I seen-em down-air. Mite-git-me-wun."

The easiest way is to try a movement with a dial in the case. You only need one movement...2824 or 2836. The stem will be centered in the case tube or it will not. The 2836 is a better choice if you need a date wheel overlay. Many vendors do not know the 2824 and 2836 use different cases. Same way with cases that sellers claim will accept rolex 3035 and 3135 movements.

"From my point of view, this gen watch having been repaired and serviced several times with aftermarket parts, is still a gen." This of course is a matter of opinion. Imho a watch needs to have 100% genuine parts to be 'genuine', not 80 or 90%. Some internal parts can not be identified as genuine or aftmkt (mainsprings for example) so they pass as genuine. RWC does not make mainsprings anyway, they are made by General Ressorts. Stems and some internal wheels, screws etc are nearly impossible to tell but almost no one looks at them because they are fixated on cases, dials, hands, bezels, bracelets etc. A watch with a few aftmkt parts may pass as genuine but it is not 100% genuine. I have watches that are 100% genuine and some that would strain to be 90% genuine (aftmkt bracelet links for example). The difference is that I will tell what is what when I pass them on. The problem is when the next guy sells it and does not mention it is not 100% genuine. Trade shows and the internet are full of watches like this. I got a 34mm manual wind no date replica rolex in a trade 12 or 15 years ago that looked more or less genuine so I engraved "This ain't a real rolex Bud" inside the case back to keep someone from getting robbed on it and traded it away with full disclosure. A few years later a watch trader showed up with it bragging that he 'made out like a bandit' on a trade and got a 'rolex' for nearly nothing. I opened it up and showed him the inscription. We had a good laugh. He gave it to his kid.

"Jolly funny that was too, until the fork truck fell over........" Fun with fork trucks! I dumped three (3) new in the crate Kawasaki 1600 Vulcan Nomad Garbage Wagons off a fork truck from up high, then ran into them. Was running WFO and had them up high so I could see where I was going. Cracked a lot of Tupperware. Garbage Wagon = dresser with baddle sags, shinweild, brash cars etc. The Boss said "What the Flak happened?" I said "You can't be in the Ichiban Club without breaking some eggs." Good thing I have known him since he was 3 years old. I still held the destructo record when I quit 11 years ago. Second place was a guy who dumped three (3) new Yamadog WaveRapers. Dumped one on the roll cage when he took off and two more when he slammed the brakes on to see what happened. They were not damaged...much. That chainsaw winder is a pretty good idea.

"Sure glad Automatico chimed in, I wuz gonna suggest Vise-Grips!" I have a big V-G welded to a slide hammer...it'll make 'em come, bleed, or blister. I have not seen it all but... Saw a kitchen table watch fixer set the date on a slow set watch by running the crown down a yardstick with belt sander paper glued on it. Saw a cheapo fake submariner buried in a blob of Bondo with just the case sticking out at a body shop one time. They shook it up to make it run and used the bezel for a Bondo timer. Why didn't I think of that?

"Would a TC movement holder work for you?" It might. Depending on the dimensions. An eta 2824/36/46 OD is 26.0mm at the widest spot. A 5512/13 case ID is 28.5mm at the widest spot where the movement mounts and there is a step down to about 27.5mm in the case wall before it gets to the dial seat (measurements are not always exact exact but very close). This is why a standard cartel generic flat side spacer is not a real good fit...the spacer needs to be made to precisely fit the OD of the movement and the ID of the case. Most replica cases are made for 26mm eta 28xx or DG/NN etc movements with dials up to about 27 or 28mm so the case usually has a smaller ID than a case made for a rolex 15xx movement that is 28.5mm wide. A genuine rolex spec case with a 15xx movement does not have a spacer, the movement is a snug fit in the case. The Catch: A no date 15xx rolex movement is 5.75mm thick and a date movement is a little over 6mm thick so the spacers need to be made in different thicknesses if they are also made to support the dial like a Stilty Spacer. That is one reason why he had the spacers made...so they would make it easier when putting an eta 28xx in a case made for a rolex 15xx using a rolex spec dial with the dial feet removed...the spacers have a flat surface that rises above the movement for the dial to rest on and it does away with the flimsy eta spacer. If a spacer is to be made just so it holds the movement in place and pushes the movement toward the dial by case clamp/screw pressure, it can be a 'universal' type that closely fits the case ID and movement OD and the thickness can be 'adjusted' by machining or sanding to make it thinner if needed. The thickness also determines how the case clamps will work because they need to go across the spacer and lock into the groove in the case...too thick and the clamp will not go into the groove, too thin and the clamp may not put enough pressure on the movement to hold it in place. Bending the case clamp to apply more pressure will help if the spacer is too thin but since most of them are relatively soft they may not hold their shape. I measured six (6) random brass cartel spacers and here are the different sizes: 28.0mm OD x 2.1mm thick 28.5mm OD x 1.70mm thick 28.5mm OD x 2.1mm thick 29.1mm OD x 2.3mm thick and two duplicates ID = They all were a hair over 26mm inside and an eta 28xx movement will drop through them all. No idea what they came out of and there are probably a lot more sizes available, so they are not all alike. I know I have made this seem a lot more complicated than it really is but if the spacer is not a good fit, the movement may slide back and forth when setting time/screwing the crown down and this will scuff the dial and minute markers. Stout case clamps will help a lot but a precision spacer is also needed.

Seagull TY2555 http://www.startimesupply.com/product/CH-TY2555.html Also some on eBay, item numbers 401365015630 252963950580 272475333221 You may see them as CH2555. CH = Chinese.

"$50 bucks for anyone who can get me a 2824 to fit 1530/5513 case adapter ring by Saturday. I am in NJ." Anyone who has not had the 'pleasure' of making one of these %^#*&@$ things on a manual lathe might not realize that $50 is not too much to pay. I made one yesterday out in the garage (90 degrees with a pissant fan aimed more or less toward me). First one was a hair too big ID because I was in a hurry and did not take the time to measure it accurately. I was afraid the movement might fall through the spacer if the movement was out of spec a hair or two. The next one is almost done and I may put it in a trophy case instead of the watch when I finish it. I have made quite a few spacers like this but making these things is touchy because if you screw up the last cut, you have to start all over and on my small lathe, it is like a rat eating a grindstone...small bites on a big brass washer. I used a 'Stilty Spacer' for a pattern and so far it looks like the second spacer will work Ok. All the Stilty Spacers were CNC made and iirc they were $30 or $40 each. I saved a couple for patterns. I can whittle you one out but it will be cool weather before I get back in the game...this one was a self inflicted 'emergency'. It will not be $50 either...less $$ but later. "...anyone handy with a lathe can make a precision 'Stilty' type spacer using a standard brass spacer in an hour or so." I call BS on the above statement made by some fool.