archibald

Sorry about my lack of research (I'm sure there are 167 threads on this on the old site) but I just received an offer for a v72 copy movement so cheap that I think is going to go almost immediately.

Will the V72 copy fit in a case built for the "venus" copy? I don't really care about the hands/subdial spacing, etc since the hands and dial will be swapped out--I'm just worrying if the depth and diameter of my venus case will be sufficient or too-sufficient.

Also, I just bought a dial to fit the Lemania 1870 movement. Anyone know I can use it w/ the either venus copy or my soon-to-be v72 copy, or if I'll be screwed by the spacing?

Thanks in advance!

i guess im still getting flamed for this...

but as i stated in my previous post, i just like all my reps to be as accurate as can be. why does everyone want the swan neck? same reason. why do some people want the genuine oem movement for their fiddy? im not a con man and i would never try to pass off my reps as gen. i still don't know what the big deal is. like i said, if striving for the most accurate rep makes me a con man, then i guess i am a con man...

There's a big difference between a swans neck on a clear back watch and an OEM rotor on a solid back watch. No judgement here--if it's worth the cash for a improvement nobody except a watchsmith is ever going to see, go for it. My watchsmith knows I wear almost exclusively reps, so I'll pass on the rotor.

I doubt that the majors would send people to investigate these forums. It is a poor use of time and money. They're going to spend their effort on marketing first and foremost. *If* they saw reps as a big problem, they'd take time to do an education campaign on how to identify a rep from the gen (like rolex has). The best expenditure of their resources is to either expose those who own reps via identification, or to vaccinate the folks who buy gens from buying reps.

Just some thoughts.

You're totally misreading how this is done--They can't go after the source, becsue the source is the only other superpoweresque country on the planet. So they will prosecute the failed strategy of the War on Drugs: Goinf after the little guy and working their way up. Plus, busting wearers of replica goods is better press for the politicians & law enforcement than sending a team of balding lawyers to China to urge some functionary to clamp down on the replica market.

Case in point: The Bush (mis) Administration put out a press release about how they're going to find all the fake watches coming into the US--meanwhile, they absolutely refuse to check more than 5% of shipping crates a refusal that could concievably kill millions.

Happy Easter to all of you from me as well

Happy Easter to all, my commiserations w/ those who have sugar-feuled kids running all over the house right now.....but where is the Easter Theme?

The bracelet will be the last thing that I want to get.

Since we now know the PO is the wrong size, you're list is going to have to look something like this:

Priority:

1. Genuine hands

2. Genuine crown, HE

3. Genuine clasp

The bad news is that the hands may look too big and the clasp may not fit the rep bracelet. The good news is that the crown and He are pretty easy to source and don't cost very much, especially on the bay.

sadly, I have absolutely no confidence they'll ever make the right case size, so the best we're going to do is wait for the 45.5mm version to catch up w/ the 40mm version accuracy-wise.

@ O: 67% seems high to me, my rule of thumb on a "99%" franken would be 1/3 -1/2 of the very lowest price that I could source a used gen.

i have a pam 050. love it. there's only 3 things that's wrong with it.

1. hands are kind of rough around the edges but i don't want to open it up and replace them

2. clasp shows a little gap (can't really do anything about it).

3. lever is ugly. it's kind of narror at one end and not at the other so there's a nice little gap.

where/how/from who can i get this fixed?

sounds like it should be replaced. I'd snap some pics and email them to the dealer. If you are an anal retentive like me, adam-co on ebay sells OEM 40mm guards once in a while. 200 smackeroons though. I remember reading that someone got one of these to fit his 50 w/ a mnimal mods.

Woah there, nelly. Hold up a second!

If an AD pays about 1000, that'll be ex-vat, and the price he'll charge will be inc-vat. So, ex-vat, he's charging 1700. In other words, he's buying goods at 60% of retail value. Are you aware that 60% is standard wholesale price for almost every kind of shop? Your shoes will be bought at 60%, your sunglasses will be bought at 60%, your TV will be bought at 60%, but because it's a watch, it has to be different?

Markup is normal because he has to cover warranties, pay tax, pay salaries, pay for his AD licenses, pay his insurance, pay his rent ...

You can complain if you like, but it's hardly a crime unless you want to call every shopkeeper on the highstreet a criminal.

In my business the aveage markup over wholesale pruduct cost is more than 72% and more than 40% of businesses fail. Idon't fault the AD's one bit, especially since their margin is usually less than 60% since most watches are sold at a discount. The eggregious markups are the manufacturers--Muller charges AD's almost 6 grand for a stock 2892 powered SS conquistador.

It's real guys....

I know you probably have checked, but as I said in the other thread the only way to know if it is 100% gen and not a sweet franken is to open it up.

anyway, congrats! If the franken i'm building looks 80% as nice as that one I'll be a happy dude.

probably has the microstepper quartz they are pricy but awesome. The second hand sweeps like a real movement.

Wow...if the sweep on those movements is anywhere near a mechanical movement beat, that opens up a whole world of reps--perpetual calandars, even minute repeaters (shellman makes a quartz minute repeater--word is the sound is almost perfect but the sweep seconds ticks like quartz). How cool would it be to have a patek, VC or other brand w/ a working minute repeater and sweeping seconds.

so is that watch above a Fantasy Photoshop watch? or is it real?

If this is real, i may have to buy my first Omega!

Speaking of reps of that watch, anyone know how far off the subdials would be on a 7750 version of the PO chrono?

Looks like older model of Daytona (with El Primero movement). If you asked me I'd say it's real... subregisters, case and bracelet look good... but then again I'm no Daytona expert.

I've been trying to buid a franken of this exact watch except my OEM dial's subdials do not have the gold ring--i am almost suyre Rolex did make a version w/ the gold ring on the el primero daytona, though. The dial does not look as crisp as mine, which is unopened NOS, but this could be due to the pics. The bezel looks like mine except in better condition. The pushers look crisper than mine since mine are aftermarket. The crown looks identical to my OEM crown. I do not have OEM case, hands, end links or bracelet to compare this watch to. It's possible that I was sold rep parts as OEM, but I doubt it since the sources are well known. It's even more possible that my Rolex eye sucks, so take my comparison w/ a grain of salt.

But, on balance, I'd say genuine although it's nearly impossible to tell if it is a franken unless you have pics of the movement.

Not trying to go OT, but it was mentioned that DW makes a 14k case--is this a solid 14k case? If so, I may have to pick one up for the old mad who wants a daytona franken in gold--I bet he'd think one from his hey day would be a lot cooler than the '99 daytona i'm working on for him...

I like it... What do you guys think ? Any obvious flaws ?

Is it a fantasy? I couldn't find anything like this one in Blancpain's catalog...

'original' rep at : http://perfect-clones.com/product_info.php?products_id=679

As an eternal optimist, I'm holding off on "moon phase" reps since I believe they'll come out w/ a functional moon pahse complication on reps soon. On the other hand, when it soes come out, it won't be $88. IMO, since blancpain is an esoteric enough brand that it deosn't really matter if this is a fantasy, and since few people know what moon phase complications are supposed to do I'd say, if you like and jos is selling it, don't hesitate.

A post yesterday described how many genuine Rolex parts come from China, but receive the "Swiss" designation when they are assembled in Switzerland.

Soooooo. Just exactly HOW genuine / fake are the Rolex signed bridges for sale on Ebay, ostensibly from DW or another dealer???

I guess we're assuming that these bridges were made in the 21st century, not the late-mid 20th. If they are genuine genuine, I doubt Rolex would have made anything in asia during the time all those vintage rollies were made.

If your question is more metaphysical, I believe that technology has made the SWISS MADE designation irrelevent on all but the highest end ultra-complicated watches. Let's face it--your standard mass-produced watches, even the expensive ones, are no-brainers to make thanks to current milling and printing technology, .005mm resoultion on CNC machines, CAD, etc.

SWISS MADE used to mean something back in the days when human skill and the quality of "analog" machines played a much larger role in watch quality. SWISS MADE meant "we've been making watches for a long time, have lots of outstanding craftspeople as well as excellent tools and machines." CNC is CNC. Dye Sub printing is Dye Sub printiing same-same all over the world. And it no longer takes a old guy with a loupe to make a top-quality watch.

Even the swiss have seen the handwriting on the wall--they know if they required that everything on a watch to be made in switerland their watch industry would crumble in a month. Thus the "50% of cost law." Muller, for example, buys stock (probably asian made) ETA's and replaces the rotor with a rep ETA rotor made of platinum. Bam. Swiss Made, baby.

So, rep or real? Asian or Swiss? This question has become a legal and ethical one. IMO, it's no longer a practical or technical one.

F.P. Journe, Mille and the like are Swiss made in the old school tradition (although Journe doesn't even bother putting swiss made on his watches, since he knows it's all BS) and are in no danger from china for the time being. But Rolex, Panerai, Muller, etc? IMO, "swiss made" iss all about trademark law, not quality.

Ask joshua about his Rose Gold VC Chronographe.

A friend of mine just got one, and i have to say, it is one of the most stunning watches i have ever seen.

I was so impressed with it that I ordered one the next day.

I wil do a review and post pics when i recieve it.

For accuracy, I'm partial to eddie's AP Jules Audemars--the only dial-side flaw is the .25mm-off date position.

Are you referring to this model?

Nope. It's tough to tell what model they're going after--could be the Master Calandar with retrograde date, but the day-date function, which on reps usually means "we're doing a chronograph, buddy" leads me to believe it's a cross between the retrograde seconds casablanca and the retrograde chronograph.

I wonder if someone has this watch.

I know it's a fantasy watch but still I like it and would like to hear some feedback before I pull the triger.

Thanks

It's not really a fantasy--it's an asian day-date rep of a pretty cool genuine muller--the curvel double retrograde (I can't remember if the OEM is a double retrograde seconds or chrono). In any event, aside from the dumb "complication" it looks like there's some pretty good attention to detail on this watch, and I bet the price is right.

This one is, sadly, a no brainer. There is already a shitty Day Date Chrono rep--but there is a shitty day-date rep of almost evey watch of even moderate reknown. I can count the wonderous and mysterious miracles of Panerai/Rolex-accurate reps of unusual and hard-to-copywatches on one hand--the Picot Le Plongeur and the Parmigiani Kalpa XL come to mind--but I don't think the Big Bang is going to be one.

UPDATE: We’re pleased to announce that the countdown clock to high-magnification has begun. Some further details:

LENS SPECIFICATIONS

1)These aftermarket, round lenses will be 6mm in diameter, and magnify the date window between 1.6X and 1.7X or so, depending on your watch's rehaut. One of the factors that determines magnification independent of a lens is the distance of that lens from the object it is magnifying, in this case the date wheel.

2) You should be aware that not all watches require 6mm cyclopses—some use 5mm, some 6mm, some 7mm—please make sure that you will be happy with 6mm on whatever model you are buying for. 6mm is by far the most common size, and a 1mm difference is not that noticeable. You should check before ordering, though.

3) Likewise not all watches use 1.6X magnification (most use lenses between 1.4X and 1.8X). We purposely chose the midpoint so that these lenses will look great on a wide variety of watches. In any event, these lenses will provide significant improvement in appearance and function over watches that have substandard magnification.

4) The lenses will be made out of sapphire, which will eliminate the tendency of glass cyclopses to pop off of sapphire crystals during rapid changes of temperature which can occur when exiting a heated building on a very cold day (or vice versa) or at the beach with your watch sitting in the sun.

PAYMENT AND SHIPPING INFORMATION

1) This is not a money making venture, but rather just something we wanted to do for ourselves and our fellow forum members. We're offering these at our base cost + shipping ($35 US) to any member who wants them. We are all taking 5-10 each.

2) This project involves a significant up front investment which we have funded in full. Since this up front investment has cut into our rep budgets, incensed our significant others, and placed a good bit of disposable income at risk we are asking that everyone who wants these at cost pre-pay $18 for each cyclops ordered by April 17th. Everyone participating will get the exact same deal. There will be no behind the scenes sweetheart arrangements, no exceptions. For those who elect to take advantage of the initial offer, $17 will be due after we have had a chance to inspect the lenses but prior to shipment.

3) These deposits are 100% refundable, backed by a workmanship guarantee of the lens maker and a de facto guarantee against them not working on our watches by 4 longtime members with a combined 10k posts and tens of thousands of dollars worth of trouble-free transactions with dealers and fellow members. So, in the unlikely event these lenses don't work out, you get your money back and we take a nice long bath in little round pieces of glass.

4) After April 17th, lenses will most likely still be available. The price will increase to $45, though, with payment due prior to shipping. It's your choice. We have put up the up front money and in good faith are offering you to share in the initial cost (although, unlike us, you have no risk--you are guaranteed of a good working product or you get your money back).

5) If you want the lenses at $35 please PM sssurfer no later than April 17th, and he will send you payment instructions.

In your PM, please include:

Name

Board User Name

Address

How many lenses you want

Email address

6) If you have any technical questions about the lenses feel free to post here or PM sssurfer, archibald, finepics or kruzer00.

7) We expect and hope the lenses will be received and shipped no later than June 1st.

As the “big date” approaches we will post further updates to this thread. ‘Cause after all, Big Dates are what this project is all about.

Best to all,

The Watchmen

kruzer00 sssurfer, Finepics, archibald

i did a complet review of andrews po a month ago , but i may have forgot to post if over here so i will do so now for u

HEY ARCHIBALD , trustys is more correct on the size u were referring to , go read my post about it ok and it does have nice ar coating

Hmmmm...very interesting. Joe measured Andrew's version:

i measured it right at 42mm like 41.95 to be exact lol and right at 44.5 with crown , so pretty close to the genuine one

That makes me feel a lot better...I can deal w/ .5mm. Does anyone know if Omega's 42.5 is the width of the case or the bezel?

One thing that puzzles me is is that I can't believe the dealers would advertise a 41.95mm watch as 40mm..seems like they would be costing themselves some money. On the other hand, I've found over the years that when reps are slightly different in size from the gen, the makers tend to make them a little more accurate with less visible intentional flaws. This is a tough call.

That's right, the dials (I got two) were for the 33mm model. I gave up on that project and am now focusing on swapping out the dial of my Nick Faldo rep, with a Fick Faldo dial, and then replacing the see through caseback with a regular RO caseback. This way I'll have an almost perfect 14790 military dial model.

I saw your auction--that dial was in very nice condition.

I hope mine is not for the 33mm--the seller absolutely confirmed it was for the 36mm. Mine's coming from Switzerland--where was your seller from, Ratchpot?

Good catch on the 42.5mm with crown thing. Damn. Hopefully they'll make version 6 the right size. 2.5mm is a deal breaker for me.

The bright side of this is that the auction contains a VERY rare picture which accurately shows the HE valve position on the PO copies.

[censored], i hope you don't think i was coming after you in any way whatsoever, and perhaps i was a little hard on King. The back story to my post was that reletively early in my collecting days right when the asia 7750 came out she posted a daytona in the old offers section saying the movement was swiss--before the issue was cleared up by other members in her thread, I bought one. I complained. she refunded part of the cost explaining that she meant that it was "like swiss" or a copy of a swiss. That was all fine for me--although it should be noted that she did not change the "7750" on her website to "asian 7750" for some time thereafter.

I know you have done a great service to RWG by helping briing in more dealers which has had the result of both more choice and lower prices for us all. No way I would ever purposely undermine that.

Hi Arch,

I can't agree with you 100% here..,

Regarding gold at least from the PT post regarding 14k TT reps, which was posted

before I did my purchase,..what I paid I believe is normal, and to be honest,

personally, I would not care if it were 14 or 10k, it's still better than a plated piece,

and I suspect will serve it's purpose as a replica, which by the way

is one of the best Rolaxes I have had to date... and I have had a few.

As for King, you may be right that she's quicker than what she allows some of us to think..

that's all speculation however, what is not, is how she comes through when there is a dire

problem,... the kind that some don't understand the definition of..

Out of the three times in about 20, when I had drop-ship problems, she sent another

watch without charge never requesting a return.

On top of which, she actually sourced me two watches she did not carry, just to make sure

I was happy.

The Iwc that Watch-a-doin has on his wrist is one,..

I requested Stainless, but she knew that those models had a potential brake flaw, so she

went out of her way to make sure it did not happen again..

Just too bad for me I don't have an eye for Titanium,..

Out of the many dealers I have enjoyed trading with, she is Tops in my book and that's

not dealer worship,.. just plain fact, built upon experience.

See below.

As you can see in the picture, the endlinks are designed so that they are removable from the case, but are permanently

fixed to the bracelet. The only options therefore for people wanting to convert to strap are to get the endlinks by cutting

through the bracelet or source the endlinks separately.

This is a picture of a genuine RO, with the endlinks removed. The endlinks are IMO an essential item for conversion to strap.

I'm no machinist, but I'd guess those parts wouldn't be too difficult to measure and then reproduce w/o taking them off--it looks like the issue would be figuring out where to drill.

I can't promise anything, but I have an OEM RO dial on the way--if it is in usable condition and I can fix the date position problem w/ an ETA movement, I'll buy the rep and see if it fits the rep case. Since I despise bracelets on any watch, I'll probably head over to a local machine shop and see what they can do.

I think another RWGer has an OEM dial coming from an Ebay seller so maybe s/he will try the same thing! In the meantime, it may be fun if someone who already has a RO lets their fingers do the walking and give a machine shop a call.