How much is too much?

[kernow]

I've bought a few reps in my time and now I've started having a few frankens built. After looking at the amount I'm spending(investing?) I could buy a quite nice gen. 

I'm guessing that for some of our gifted members (myself not included) it's a labour of love: the journey is greater than the destination. For myself however it's about the end result. For example, my white Seamaster chronograph, built by @SSTEEL, is beautiful in every way, but at around 25-30% of the cost of a gen is that too much? Although this one is probably 'better' than most gens (unless diving) as it has a double AR crystal, new lume and is all shinny not beaten up. 

So, what's the consensus? How much is too much?  

 

[gran]

If you cannot afford it its too much.

 

30% of a 50.000 watch is too much

 

 

[ubiquitous]

For me... I could have picked up some nice gens for what I've spent in this hobby, but to me, there's not a lot of fun in doing that. I'd rather spend the time to research a build, understand the history of such a piece, hunt down the parts and see what I can put together with my own hands and tools. I have an appreciation for what I have on my wrist, and I know what went into it.

 

In terms of cost... I think that's all relative, right? I have more than I'd like to admit into my Patek builds, but the amount is a small fraction of what the gens would run me, and that's if I could find examples as clean as the ones I've put together. For me, maybe that's the other facet; building something that's not the most accessible or available in gen form.

 

And sometimes... It's about pushing the limits; to see how close or accurate a build can get.

 

In the end, only you can justify what makes sense, or what doesn't. If it makes you smile every time you check the wrist... If you look back on a build with no regrets... I think it's nothing to worry about    Life's short... We should all do what we enjoy doing!

[jigelow]

I've debated this before. In fact, I very nearly sold all my frankens to buy the new Speedmaster '57. 

 

I just think I'd get bored. As @ubiquitous said, it's part research, part "the hunt", part the build. I don't want to say we're more than "just collectors" because there's something to be said for that, too. But it boils down to what actually brought you to this hobby to begin with. Is it the appreciation of the watch on face-value, or is it appreciation of what went in to it to the point of wanting to know each piece and put that similar effort in to replicating it?

[panerai153]

i believe that everyone who has gotten in to frankens asks themselves the same question that you posed. I believe ubi summed it up pretty darn well. I have genuine watches that get very, very little wrist time, but from the standpoint of value, they are worth 2-3 times what I paid for them so while I would love to be able to pass all of them down to my son and grandsons, I know that should I have and emergency and need cash, they are salable. From a love standpoint, I have Reps that I like a whole lot better than those gens.

AFA what frankens cost to build, I suppose a lot depends on what the gen costs. I have never built a franken of a 50k watch, but I agree that spending 20-30% of the value of a gen in that price range is probably not a good idea. I try to keep the franken cost at 25-30% but these are watches that genuine sell for 6-12k. From my standpoint, I would be very hesitant to spend much over 3k for a franken. That's probably why I have stayed away from franken AP ROO's and vintage Daytonas.With some of those, you can get in pretty deep really fast, depending on your parts suppliers, and sometimes just luck.

 

Another factor is your ultimate goals and expectations, as well as your watch budget. If you are one of those of us who enjoy the hunt, researching builds, finding parts and ultimately seeing all your hard work and efforts come to fruition in a beautiful watch, then to me it is worth it.If you are one who just wants a watch to fool your friends and associates or no matter what lose interest in a watch quickly and are always looking for the latest and greatest models, then I would say that the franken game is not for you.

 

Watch budget definitely plays a part as well. Consider that in almost every case, you will not recoup your costs that went into the build. I have seen really fantastic frankens languish on the sales forums for months, and at some point withdrawn, sold at a loss or parted out to recover some of the costs. So all of these factors have to be well thought out before you jump off the deep end.

 

 

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[automatico]

All my Frankensteins are vintage relax submariner types and since I did not pay too much for the movements (1520/60/70/75) compared to today's prices, I am in pretty good shape as far as $$ goes.  I can sell the movements for as much or more than I have in them and the cases...MBK/Yuki/IG44/Phong/DW...DW! will sell for a $100 or so less than I paid and on the watches I wore, I added oem type case tubes, drilled the lugs etc, took care of then, and did not attempt to artificially age them.

 

I paid the going prices for the MBK watches at the time ($375 to $420) and the Yuki cases have not been worn.  One MBK was a case only buy ($300) and two of the watches had swiss etas and two had clones.  One had a hollow link 93150 and two others had solid mid links, two had no bracelets.  The dials were Ok but not remarkable.  The Phong 1655 case was purchased used from a member at a fair price so no loss there.  The new dials left over are mostly Yuki and they will sell for 2/3 of the current price while the Yuki dials on the watches will go for about half price.  A little loss maybe but not much.

Do have one potential  loss, a Phong 1655 that is not finished yet after 3 or 4 years...$3k and counting.  All I need to do now is put it together.

 

So...where did I lose?

I have not lost much $$ (yet) as far as this hobby goes but I would need to sell a lot of stuff to get dead even or maybe a little bit ahead because all of it should sell for as much or more than I paid.  I also did Ok on swiss eta replicas when they were available 12 or 15 years ago because the watches cost less than the movements do now and I still have most of them.  All the watches I bought back then had new swiss etas in them...no junk, no clones.  New movements back then were around $45 to $55 each in quantity and not much more from USA supply houses (I have some 2836 movements that were around $65 iirc from ST 25 years ago when they first started out).  Plus I would still have all the cases, bracelets, dials etc left after selling the movements.

 

Where did I lose while making a profit?

Selling genuine rolex watches too soon before the market went crazy.  That is where I lost my azz.  

 

[MAHLER]

I think that too much is only a pale border of life, this border is delineated so clear when your woman takes off your clothes from the closet of the bedroom and wants you get out home... only because of your fixation on watches. that finger pointed at the door is too much.

[automatico]

"I think that too much is only a pale border of life, this border is delineated so clear when your woman takes off your clothes from the closet of the bedroom and wants you get out home... only because of your fixation on watches. that finger pointed at the door is too much."

 

I know two guys who are Gen-u-ine True Blue Rolex Freaks.

One spent all his $$ on rolex watches and lost his job, wife, car etc.  Have not heard from him since late 2001.

The other is still buying and selling thanks to inherited money but not getting ahead.

 

Know another guy who is a Gold Freak.  He buys, sells, and trades gold objects of all types, every day of the week.  He has been a ca$h millionaire and flat broke a few times since I have known him.  He travels all over the southern US in a new Cadillac buying and selling gold, usually with a bodyguard riding shotgun.  Bought a 12 size 14k Elgin pocket watch from him a few years ago so he could buy gas and something to eat.  Do not know what his financial standing is at the moment, have not talked to him in a while but heard he was doing just fine. 

ca$h millionaire = folding money, not a $1m dirt farm with 7 milk cows that you owe $900k on.

[automatico]

Forgot to say the gold guy is a heavy gambler/card player.  

Could not edit my post.

[mymanmatt]

If you think it's to much, then it's to much. You don't buy to sell for a profit, you buy because it's what you want. You will probably loose money, but why care if it's what you want. Enjoy it! 

[UmpaHimself]

Only you can answer the question of how much is too much. However, it does sound like you are starting to second guess yourself. If you dump a bunch of money into a build and decide it's no longer for you, then you are really loosing out on time and money.

[altesporsche]

I think the problem is when is it enough lol 

surely I agree that it's silly to pay 75% of the cost of a gen for a franken.. but I've done it. Like many of the fellas have mentioned above, it's about the search and the research of parts and period correctness etc..to get as close to the real deal as possible. I actually think that the guys here know a lot of the Gen watches more than collectors of gens.

Ive bought a lot of gens and some quite expensive, but none of them felt as good to wear as a watch you spent, months, weeks or even years on building lol call me crazy but I enjoy it. Will I ever get back what I have out Into this hobby ? Hell no.. I have about 30 watches I'll never wear, but don't know how to sell them as I don't know what they are worth and can't be bothered with haggling with people on price etc.. from time to time I list some of it, if it's in front of me and I know people need it or are looking for it. 

[Dinkis]

I think the problem is when is it enough lol 
surely I agree that it's silly to pay 75% of the cost of a gen for a franken.. but I've done it. Like many of the fellas have mentioned above, it's about the search and the research of parts and period correctness etc..to get as close to the real deal as possible. I actually think that the guys here know a lot of the Gen watches more than collectors of gens.
Ive bought a lot of gens and some quite expensive, but none of them felt as good to wear as a watch you spent, months, weeks or even years on building lol call me crazy but I enjoy it. Will I ever get back what I have out Into this hobby ? Hell no.. I have about 30 watches I'll never wear, but don't know how to sell them as I don't know what they are worth and can't be bothered with haggling with people on price etc.. from time to time I list some of it, if it's in front of me and I know people need it or are looking for it. 

Well put. Now if you've got a Bronzo sitting around you don't ever wear you can contact me


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[bnick2535]

Asking this question will come to all of us sometime in our life,and you might just hit yours.If I was you i would sit in front of your watches and see what you really want to keep and wear.i think a good solid 10 watches is good enough.Its kinda sad to have them just sit in a box not getting any wear time.

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[Sogeha]

I agree with all @altesporsche wrote except silly. Buying a high end watch isn't really a logical choice when a very low end Quartz is more accurate, buying a rep or franken is also not a choice that involves much logic. Truth is most of us are wedded to mobile 'phones that have a very accurate clock function, we don't need a watch at all. Some things we do for pleasure. Two days ago I took some friends to a restaurant and had a lovely meal and great company at the cost of a couple of hundred euro. How am I ever going to recover my investment on that? Some watches I hope I have some equity in, but gen, rep or franken I buy for the pleasure of it not the clinical financials.

[Nivka]

I try and stay within 10%, but don't bat an eyelid if someone frankens up to 50%

[altesporsche]

2 hours ago, bnick2535 said:

Asking this question will come to all of us sometime in our life,and you might just hit yours.If I was you i would sit in front of your watches and see what you really want to keep and wear.i think a good solid 10 watches is good enough.Its kinda sad to have them just sit in a box not getting any wear time.

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Couldn't agree with you more ! my problem is really lack of time as i spend almost 7 months of the year offshore and while that was fine when i was single as i had lots of time, but then my fiancee came along, so that was the majority of my time and then a dog lol and now in the past month my first Son.. I have told myself many times in the past new months to sit down and clear out your parts bin of hoarded stuff and get rid of the watches you don't wear or wont wear. I Counted them for shits and giggles this morning.  I have 3 im building and 58 watches in my two watch drawers in my closet lol of which 8 are high cost frankens, 12 Gens and the rest are various watches i seen and liked over the years.. some modded, some i have no idea when or where i bought them. Of all of those i probably have worn 25 of them.   Its a bit silly lol  Maybe ill clear out some this week before i head back to work and buy just one or put the money in an account for my son or something like that.  

 

Oh and Sogeha I agree fully with you, i'm not into this for the investment or worrying about funds to build etc.. i just love this racket lol something about it just grabs you and you. Its only in the past 4 or 5 years i've even had the means of digging into some of the watches i've built and Gens i've bought. Before that I just wore a scrappy few and bought and sold to buy another etc.. but thats where the love of this came from, back in the day when i couldn't afford much at all.     

[bnick2535]

Couldn't agree with you more ! my problem is really lack of time as i spend almost 7 months of the year offshore and while that was fine when i was single as i had lots of time, but then my fiancee came along, so that was the majority of my time and then a dog lol and now in the past month my first Son.. I have told myself many times in the past new months to sit down and clear out your parts bin of hoarded stuff and get rid of the watches you don't wear or wont wear. I Counted them for shits and giggles this morning.  I have 3 im building and 58 watches in my two watch drawers in my closet lol of which 8 are high cost frankens, 12 Gens and the rest are various watches i seen and liked over the years.. some modded, some i have no idea when or where i bought them. Of all of those i probably have worn 25 of them.   Its a bit silly lol  Maybe ill clear out some this week before i head back to work and buy just one or put the money in an account for my son or something like that.       

what I did with some watches give to my brother in law the ones I really don't care about the other couple that have more value i sold to my cousin or put on Craigslist where I could sell.Now that I have 3 kids gotta see what's more important and keep the best and ones that have some sentimental value even if not worth much but was part of my life for a long time.my one watch I had over 20 plus years and will have another 20


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[automatico]

"I have 3 i'm building and 58 watches in my two watch drawers in my closet lol of which 8 are high cost frankens, 12 Gens and the rest are various watches i seen and liked over the years.. some modded, some i have no idea when or where i bought them. Of all of those i probably have worn 25 of them."

 

I know exactly what you mean.  I have a few I wear and a bunch I never did and never will wear.  Every time I look for something, I run across a watch or two that I can not remember where or when I got it.  I keep records back into the 1980s so usually it is written down and I can trace the watch.  What is bad is when I discover I bought the watch 25+ years ago and now it needs c/o, gaskets etc just to get it in condition to wear or sell.  It's a little bit depressing.  Some of the watches are in very good condition from the 1950s through the 1980s that would make good 'now and then' watches for someone who likes vintage mechanicals.

 

Recent example...found a 1970s Seth Thomas 'Stingray' dive watch (some were branded Roamer) that I bought in 1993 for $60, traded it away in 1999, and traded for it back in 2009.  I did not remember getting it back.

Here is a picture of one:

http://www.clickover.com//showoriginal.pl?set=91af68a1e748e6a98deb&p=1