automatico

"...it sure is easier and cheaper to keep a Swiss eta running than a Rolex 1575!" +1 That's the truth. edit 12-7: "It sure is hard to beat an MBW with some nice mods." +1 again I have compared MBK '1680' cases to Yuki and IG44 and they are just about as good imho. An exception would be that if and when MBK cases get close to Yuki prices, it would probably be better to go with Yuki as they are a precise fit for a rolex movement where the MBK is not a fit for no date models. Something else to consider is MBK cases have ratty numbers/letters and Yuki numbers/letters are very good. It will cost at least $100 to put high quality numbers/letters on an MKB case and the case back can not be done to a high standard because it is stamped and most number/letter guys can not do that. I made a '5512' out of one MBK and a '5513' out of another using rolex 1570 and 1520 with Yuki dials and they turned out fine. I changed both bezel assemblies to ST/Clark with GS crystals because they just seem to work a little bit better than the supplied bezel assembly and ufo MBK crystal. I cut the dial seat/dial window out on one more MBK case to allow the use of a genspec 1680 dial and it turned out fine too. I used rolex movements only because I have a few but Eta would be a better choice, especially for a watch that will lead a hard life because of part$/$ervice prices. Rolex 15xx movements are not as rugged as their old National Geographic ads claim (in my experience) so in the long run an Eta has the potential of being much more affordable. "I consider them the equal to their vintage Rolex counterparts at one fifth to one tenth the cost of a gen..." Me too. I have looked at a lot of $7k to $10k genuine 5512/13/1680 for sale on the 'net and most look pretty rough to me for the $$ they ask. Taking this into account, an MBK case with a 1520/70 and good dial is not that much of an expense if you are careful with it. Besides, at the end of the run you can part it out and recover most or all of your $$.

The 5500/1002 etc no date cases are different from 1500 etc date cases because of the thicker movement in the date models. You can use a no date movement in a date case with a no date dial if you use the calendar spacer, center wheel/cp, and hour wheel from a date movement, same deal as with an MBK 5512/13 case. You can not use a date movement in a no date case without removing all the calendar parts and spacer...then the hands may mount too high and if so, a no date center wheel/cp, and hour wheel must be used. You can buy aftmkt 1570/75 date center wheel/cp but aftmkt no date parts are not available that I know of and date and no date hour wheels are not easy to find at a reasonable price. I measured Sternkreuz 12 and 17 crystals (12 for no dates, 117 for slow set oyster dates) and the 12 measured 29.25 OD x 28.25 ID while the 117 was 29.5mm OD x 28.5 ID...the crystal sidewall measured 1.0mm thick on both. Loose crystal measurements are not very accurate, especially with non oem crystals but this shows there is a difference in case and bezel sizes. Measuring case necks and bezels would give a better result but this is Ok for showing there is a difference...at least in the Sternkreuz brand. If I can find the cases, I will measure 5500 and 1500 cases/bezels along with a 15000 quick set case/bezel (takes a 145 crystal) and post the specs in a day or two. I moved stuff around a while back and can not find anything. edit 12-4: Measured a few cases...genuine rolex 1500/1501 etc case neck 28.5mm, did not have a bezel handy. JMB 34mm tudor case marked with reference number 74033, case neck 28.15mm od and bezel was a loose 29.1mm id, close to 29.15, iirc this is close to or the same as genuine rolex 5500, 1002 etc but the bezel felt a little bit tight with a Sternkreuz 12 on the JMB case so I did not try to press the bezel down. Next time I have a 5500/1002 apart I will measure and post along with 1500 bezel id and 15000 case neck and bezel sizes, my 5500 and 15000 cases have bezels/crystals mounted so did not r/r any of them.

There is a list on this page that shows what the #11 and #12 are supposed to fit: http://www.ofrei.com/page419.html I used a GS GS PA459-37 on a genuine 1002 case along with a new bezel from one of JMB's 34mm tudor cases and it all fit Ok...the JMB bezel was the same ID as the genuine 1002 bezel. Also used a GS GS PA459-37 on a 14k rolex 1010 last week and it worked Ok too.

"I've bought some gen hands which were lumed to match the dial." You might have a 3035 minute hand or maybe someone broached the hand, but there may not be enough metal around the hole to do that. 1530, 1570, 1575 etc. 80-120-20 3035, 3135 95-140-22

O Frei shows a few different number GS 19 crystals. http://www.ofrei.com/page419.html

"If you have a positive sale or purchase experience, let us know! And if something didn't go as planned, be honest and let us know." Bought a used MBK '5512' from Reppin in February 2016. All went Ok except it had an Asian etaclone in it instead of an Eta as claimed "Has a swiss ETA inside" . Notified him but no partial refund offered and I let it go but I figured anyone here as long as he had been should know. Imho I paid about $100 too much because of this 'mistake'...oh yeah, it had a seadweller bezel on it, told him about that too. No sympathy. Another $100 out the window. I kept quiet because I did not want a feud. http://rwg.cc/topic/183028-mbw-5512-for-sale-from-the-recent-nos/ edit: In retrospect maybe I should have kept quiet but the deal left a bad taste because of the wrong movement and bezel.

"It's the same size as a case back gasket." "I thought it looked less in thickness but I could be wrong." On MBK 5512/13/1680 cases I needed to use a gasket with a smaller cross section than the oem 325-10 case back gasket (325-10 = 32.5mm id x 1.0mm thick). I used a 32.0mm x .8mm gasket on top of the case because that is what I had (did not have 32.5 x .8) and it worked fine. If the gasket tends to crawl out of the groove before the bezel is pressed down over it, you can use thick silicone sealer/lube on it to hold it in place. I sometimes use 'K44' silicone paste in situations like this...it is a lot thicker than regular watch grade 'silicone 7' etc used on watches and it is up to the task for sure. You can find it in automotive parts supply stores where it is sold as a heat shield/lubricant between disc brake pads and caliper pistons.

"The timezone course is very good & useful for getting your feet wet. But, as was said above, it is simply an introduction & does not make you a watchmaker. After successful completion of the course, you will be able to overhaul a working ETA movement, but diagnostics/repair will require much more." Agree. Online courses are Ok for learning how to take a basic movement apart, how to handle fragile parts (balance assembly), how to clean/assemble/oil a basic movement and this is all fine and dandy for hobby guys. The hard parts are chronographs, balance staffs, installing jewels, making small parts (odd stems, staffs, pivots etc). You can not learn this online, for this you need a teacher and believe it or not this is a large portion of what is needed on many watches not deemed 'throw away watches' that come into independent repair shops. Something else to be learned is case work like being able to fit and install all the different types of crystals...snap in, armored, MG/sapphire, and being able to cut crystals to size on a crystal grinder to fit older 'fancy' type watches when an exact replacement is not available. I say this because I did some of this type of work for a small shop and all they got for repair was quartz stuff needing batts/crystals/crowns/movements or mechanical watches that needed c/o plus services mentioned above, and parts...lot of omega, Bulova, Elgin, rolex, GP, Longines etc. The problem was always NO PARTS and it is worse now than it was then (10 years ago) because we had a rolex parts account back then and most omega material was available. Now I work only on ETA 28xx and rolex 15xx because that is all I have parts for. I got extremely tired of chasing down hard to find parts, sometimes for months at a time. I left out the part about needing between $10K and $20K in tools and supplies. One other choice is to work for a brand repair depot where you work on their products all day with no parts/customer hassles but with a guy looking over your shoulder wanting the work faster!, faster!, no comebacks! while he makes more $$ than the repair guys who do the actual work while doing nothing more than hassling the drones. I know this is not very encouraging but imho watch repair is a hard way to make a living. It's a pretty good cold weather indoor hobby though.

Anyone looking for a vintage style crystal for an AK 5500, 1002 etc project might take a look at a GS PA459-37 (Tropic 11) crystal. This GS crystal has a rounded top edge, not the sharp top edge like a modern crystal and they make a watch look 'more vintage' than the sharp edge #12 crystals widely available. Something concerning 5500 AK/Explorer projects when using one of the 34mm Tudor cases from JMB...these cases are made for an ETA 2824 and in my experience a 2836/2846 does not work because the stem does not line up in the center of the case tube and the winding rotor rubs the case back. What is the fix? 1...Remove the winding works from the 2836/2846 and manually wind the watch, not the best solution if you like automatics. You also need to grease or put heavy oil (D5 or something) on the little eccentric post made on the main plate where the crown wheel is mounted to keep it from wearing. 2...Swap the 21600 escapement parts from a 2846 to a 2824. This is a twofer...you get a thinner movement that will fit into the case and it provides a 21600 beat rate so the ss hand has less ticks per second, more like a 1520 etc. 3...In my experience the GS PA459-37 will work with the JMB Tudor case and bezel (they come with MG crystals). Here is one on eBay to look at: eBay item number 201701891441

The 'wedge' shape on the end of the newer style connecting links is there to prevent the link from turning up and scuffing the top surface of the link against the bracelet hood...the 'wedge' butts against the rounded side of the case and stops the connecting link from turning up high enough to rub against the hood (in theory). This is not very important, especially on a replica so regular type rounded connecting links are Ok and a lot easier to find or make. Keep a lookout for 'off brand' and generic steel bracelets at yard sales, flea markets etc that have center links similar to the connecting links you need.

"In regards to the original post..... Are there really any fake movements that look like this made from scratch or is the implication that there are cases where people create fake movements from some gen parts combined with non gen?" I never saw or heard of a replica or Frankenstein 1030 or 1570. I have seen fake 'bubbleback' type movements with a very accurate to original BB style cover over the movement and BB type rotor on an extended rotor axle. The one I took apart used a Bulova movement but do not remember the calibre. There used to be quite a few floating around watch shows back when BB watches were in demand. I have a BB replica with a very good case and dial but it has an Eta 2451 in it. What gives it away (other than the movement) is the SCOC blurb on the dial where genuine models had 'chronometer' or 'officially certified chronometer'. "I thought only the Yuki 3135 is a made from scratch replica movement, correct?" Yes far as I know but the replica 3135 comes in at least two versions...Yuki and another one that has been reported not to be as good. Iirc the 'not Yuki' clone has red covers mounted over the reversers making it easy to spot.

Saw The Searchers and The Zombies August 4, 1965. Otis Redding, James Brown, Wilson Pickett a few years before that was probably the first. Over 100 since then including the original Lynyrd Skynyrd, Peter Frampton (when he was Frampton's Camels), Joe Cocker, Golden Earring, Frank Marino (Mahogany Rush), Mountain, UFO, Rod Stewart, Stevie Ray, Kansas, CS&N, 38 Special, Edgar and Johnny Winter, Jackson Browne, Rick Derringer, Journey, Bob Seger, Kiss(!), REO, The Tokens, Dolly (she is from 20 miles up the road), Kenny Rogers, Doc and Merle Watson, Leon Redbone(!) etc, etc. ZZ Top was the last a few years ago. Billy Gibbons said (more or less) "Here we are, 30 years later, same three guys, same three chords, same three songs, playin' the same town."

I figure it is best to stay away from balance assemblies unless there is something wrong. It is bad enough to have to r/r them during service. Cleaning and oiling the balance cap/hole jewels is all they get from me as long as the watch keeps good time and the hairspring is level. If the hs or balance wheel is out of whack, I take it to a guy who can make it right, I no longer screw with them. I still balance a motorcycle wheel now and then though...last one was a Harley D Garbage Wagon (full dresser) wheel that weighed more than a Puch Maxi MoPed. Imho the best thing about quartz watches are not convenience or accuracy...it is that they put hairsprings out of business. Wearing an Accutron II Alpha today. Hairbrained maybe, but not hairspringed.

"Know what's a fair price for this? I see $1500-1900 is that about right?" In today's market probably. "A fair price is what a buyer is willing to pay." True. I simply can/will not pay today's prices. I guess that is why I am on a replica site. Last 1030 (1066) I bought a few years back was in an 80% condition 1959 6605 SS DJ for $700 with a swiss jubilee bracelet. One before that was a 1956 tutone 6605 with original tt bracelet for $1000 but it has a refinished dial. A few years ago some of the 'rolexperts' claimed they never made a tutone 6605, only SS and all gold...until they started showing up. Btw, the 1030 has one more or less common problem that is expen$ive to fix today because of few parts...the winding rotor bearing p/n 7004. They used to be $30, now they are $200 or $300 when you can find one and many movements will need one. Projects with cal 1520/30/60/70 usually end up costing less and parts are much easier to find. Rotor bearings for a 15xx are $15 or $20 a set but it is usually the rotor axle that goes bad, about $12 plus labor. Reverser parts for a 1030 are harder to find than 15xx parts too.

'If Stettler make crystals for Rolex, they probably wouldn't sell to you directly- I'd figure that they have an exclusive relationship with Rolex." Stettler might also sell aftmkt generic crystals that are sold under other brands as some aftmkt sapphire crystals are 'swiss made'. I doubt there are many outfits making them in swissland because of the startup cost. It may be like the mainspring maker 'Generale Ressorts'...they make almost all of the 'swiss made' mainsprings, rolex included. http://www.ofrei.com/page1721.html

I have owned a few genuine 7206 type bracelets over the years both USA made and swiss made as well as a couple aftmkt models and never was impressed with them except for their hair pulling ability. That being said, I would go for a folded oyster from Mary etc if it suits the watch model. On another note...I sent 6 vintage bracelets to Michael 'CK' Young in HK a few years ago for refurbishing and they came back in much better condition than when sent so if you run across a worn out genuine 7206 it would probably be worth the $$ to have it reworked. http://www.classicwatchrepair.com/

"Why put in a quartz movement?" Maybe because the rolex OQ came with a one tick per second quartz movement.

I made a similar remark a couple years ago and nearly got banned.

"i wouldnt get that... case is badly repolished with bezel dial and crystal all wrong" +1 Looks like a sizable percentage of the case is on the floor under the grinder and it has bird leg lugs...aka bird lugs. For comparison: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pointed+crown+guard+rolex+5512&qpvt=pointed+crown+guard+rolex+5512&qpvt=pointed+crown+guard+rolex+5512&qpvt=pointed+crown+guard+rolex+5512&FORM=IGRE

Iirc it is an ETA 2450 base and the hand sizes are the same as an ETA 2824/36 except the second hand on the 28xx is a hair bigger so it will probably work if you squeeze the tube down a little. http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&ETA_2450 http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&ETA_2836_1

That case looks super fine! mir36: "Makes me wish I had a lathe." I thinned the case sides down on a DW 1680 case using a cheapo Harbor Freight disc sander. It took a while and I never finished the lug bevels or removed the CG so the lug thinning part of it can be done without expensive machinery...but it is slow going. The mid case is 5.2mm thick in the middle of the 9 o'clock side and the same at the 3 o'clock side (centered over the case tube threads) so it may be thin enough as is. The DW case is made for a rolex 1570/5 date mvt or ETA 2836. I have an aftmkt 8mm tube/crown set but paying mucho $$ for a bezel would hold me back. rolojack...Please measure the thickness of your case in the center and see how thick it is if you get a chance. I would like to know how close mine is.

Good job on the mil watches! As for work areas...I have known three top tier pro repair guys in my life and all three had cluttered benches most of the time. They would clear their work space and in a day or two it would be back to looking like a garage sale. My work area usually looks worse when working on quartz character watches because I may have 4 or 5 apart at once. I see Hattori PC21 and Miyota 2035 in my dreams.

"So I just bought a gen luminova dial on here and wondered if it is in the realm of possibility to switch it out oneself... I'm pretty handy with watch tools and am comfortable working with reps but wanted a more expert opinion with regard to gens. Are they that different?" The basics are the same except for two main things: 1...replica rolex watches and parts are much cheaper than genuine and if you screw something up it is not a big loss. Genuine watches cost a whole lot more so a mistake can be costly. Otoh replicas can be harder to work on because of their poor quality so genuine watches may be a bit easier to work on. If it was me and the replacement parts cost much at all, I would not attempt the job if I had any doubts. Otoh again, a many professional 'watch fixers' screw stuff up too. One main difference between a pro and a hack is a pro can usually fix their screw-ups. Dials being one exception.

"I still have the white dial and hands but I don't feel they have any sort of real attachment to my watch as they are service dial and hands and are not actually vintage but a remake of a vintage dial." I did not know this so the dial/hands may not be keepers. I like the red dial a lot better anyway. "The date window isn't the best as the date was centered perfect on the white dial but I can live with it." The date is adjustable up or down in the window on 15xx movements.

Looks like it turned out real good! I agree with everything Sogeha said in post 39 and always felt a genuine vintage rolex watch should be kept as close to genuine as possible so I would keep the dial/hands to go with the watch...maybe not on the watch but with the watch. But that's just me. Replica bracelets are Ok imho as they save a genuine bracelet from wear. As for Frankensteins...I go the lower buck route with MBK or Yuki cases, Yuki\IG 44 dials etc to save $$ but go with a genuine movement so the aftmkt dials, hands etc will fit. All my Frankensteins have come in at $2000 or less except for a Phong case/dial 1655 that is not finished yet...GMT parts will bust the budget. As for modern genuine rolex watches...I feel the same about modern rolex (most sapphire models) as I do about run of the mill low grade quartz watches...there is no such thing as botching one up. I see most of them as crappics, not classics. Not anything to do with this thread and I may be stepping on toes but I always leave higher grade replica cases basically as is and do not try to artificially 'age' them because they age quick enough if you wear them. I have seen some fine cases ruined because of efforts to age them...also seen a lot of oversize and/or beveled spring bar holes and ruined CG.