automatico

First clue...

The gasket groove is back assward...it should be in the case back, not the case.

The insides of my Abay/Womart cases are machined like that and the valve is oem spec going by what I have read. I've seen similar watches for sale on dealer sites with 929 on the back.

"Drilling an HEV in a 5513 midcase isn't a good idea..."

Iirc the only difference besides the hole was a small cutout around the spring made with a milling machine. If so, it would not be hard to duplicate. I looked on the 'net but could not find any clear pictures of the inside of a 5514 case.

Genuine rolex movements, crystals etc will fit Yuki cases.

No telling what type of steel is in any replica case. If they lie about the name stamped on it, they will lie about the metal content.

My BS Detector just went off.  

All BS aside, does anyone have proof that a Yuki case uses lower quality steel than a Phong case? If they do I would like to see it.

I think these claims are made by 'dealers' trying to make a sale and posters according to their preferences, not facts.

Fact...

I like Yuki cases because they cost less than Phong etc cases.

I like MBK cases because they cost less than Yuki cases (at least mine did).

I like DW cases because they were 'only' $159.

Common sense...

Famous 316 stainless steel used in most cases is relatively cheap so it is probably what is used in the majority of quality steel replica cases. Some may use 304 or something else but there is very little price difference and both are resistant to corrosion...304 is used in kitchen sinks, cooking pots etc and everyone knows how tough they are.

World famous rolex '904L' does not cost much either, it is not as much in demand as 316 so it sells higher.

There is maybe $5USD or less (including scrap left over) worth of steel in a watch case at the wholesale level, probably less. If you do not believe it, go to a wholesale nut/bolt/hardware warehouse and price stainless steel flat washers. I bought five 50mm od x 25mm id x 4mm nominal thickness 'mystery metal' ss flat washers a while back that weigh 36 grams each and all 5 totaled $5USD including tax at full retail. The ss is pretty good as I have made quite a few bezels etc with them and they do not corrode and polish up nicely.

A complete DW 5513 case with the case tube but without the bezels or crystal weighs 38 grams so figure out how much the stainless steel is worth...maybe $2 at most. Btw, DW claims his cases are 316 too.

Q...How can there be hundreds of stainless steel watches on eBay from China for $50 or less with free shipping?

A...Because they are so cheap to make. The ss in a watch is a very small amount of the total cost. The wear and tear/replacement cost on the tool bits probably cost more than the steel.

If Phong, Yuki. etc were selling copies of a Timex case, they would be $15 with free shipping. They just cost a lot because they are 'exact' copies of very expensive watches.

The gold British key wind is a collector item but not many buyers around. Would not scrap the case but would look for a buyer even if the price is 70 or 80 percent of the worth of the gold. It needs to be preserved. But...you never know what a buyer will do with the case no matter what they say.

 'Quicky Lube' gold buyers usually pay 30 to 50 percent of scrap value and honest buyers will pay around 60 or 70 percent. A friend in the jewelry business sells scrap to the smelting company for close to 90 percent but he sells gold two times a week and stays on top of prices. His buy offers are good only for the day the item was weighed, the next day it may be more or less depending on gold price.

Today's gold is around 1295USD per Troy ounce. One Troy ounce = 31.103 grams. One gram of pure gold at $1250 per Troy ounce is worth about $40USD, so one gram of 18k gold (75% pure) is worth about $30 and 14k (58% pure) is about $23 per gram at full value.

The gold filled Waltham is not worth much, maybe $75 to $100 to a collector if it runs and maybe $30 or $40 to someone buying it for resale. Retail stores will ask up to $300 for the same watch but they are waiting for a sucker.

The gold case Waltham is worth quite a bit more, maybe $250 or more depending on how much the case weighs.

'Worth' = full gold value (see note above). People selling gold watches as a watch (not for scrap) usually price them at close to full gold value to boost the price.

Unless the gold filled Waltham has a high jeweled movement (21 or 23 jewels) it is not worth very much sad to say. The gold case Waltham should be kept as is, not scrapped if possible.

High jewel counts in 12 size and smaller watches does not help much.

I bought a new in box Hamilton 992B in 1972 for $160 (stainless case) and today a used example in 90% condition might go for $275 or $300 so they have not held their value very well. A nos 992B may go for $500 to $1000 though.

$160 in 1972 is about $900 today.

If it is a case you are after you might lower your expectations a little and maybe go with a Yuki case. 

Why?

Because a replica is a replica (always will be) and a replica with a $600 case is worth just as much as a replica with a $1200 case. Take my word for it, these things are simply not worth much out in the real world.

Do I have a Yuki case?

Yes, sold one and still have two.

Do I have a Phong case?

Yes.

What's the difference?

Besides $400 or $600, not much imho.

I am just trying to save you some $$.

Tmd...

Measurements of the case neck od and bezel id would be nice along with od of a crystal mounted on the case neck. Maybe start a sticky with all the measurements from genuine watches of different models.

I do not know what I will do with this 'collection' of replica stuff yet. I am trying to get most of my genuine rolex watches running so I can sell them and am way behind. I thought about holding on to the swiss Eta movements and see what takes place after swatch really clamps down in 2016.

A 116 crystal is about 28.85mm id and 30.25mm od but this is measuring a loose ST aftmkt crystal. What is needed is a measurement of a genuine case neck, od of a mounted genuine crystal, and id of a genuine bezel in order to find what oem specs are. I have a genuine 1675 that needs c/o and may not change the crystal when it is apart but if I do I will post the measurements in a new thread. It may be a while because I have been putting it off for a few years until I have a buyer for it.

Also have a replica 1655 and 1675 and the 1655 is basically a vintage submariner case. Do not know what the 1675 case is. The 1655 case was all out of whack with a 127 type crystal and the bezel glued on over it. Never had the GMT apart. They both are from about 10 years ago and had new swiss Etas but they really took shortcuts on the cases. The 1655 cases today are much better from what I have seen.

40 minutes later...

I dug the Swiss Eta 2836 '1675' out and it is still wrapped in plastic and dated November 2005. It is in a 1680 type case/submariner bracelet with a lightly yellowed marker GMT dial with 'oyster perpetual date' at the top. The crown is 6.0mm and the red/blue bezel turns both ways. It is not correct at all but still about as close as many projects turn out to be after spending a wad of $$.

Also found eight new in plastic wrap swiss Eta sapphire GMT including two 'noobs' (F520117 cases) and a couple with 'shitinerand' case backs plus 2 swiss Eta YM and one 'cream dial' Exp II sapphire with lug holes.

I put all this stuff away years ago and forgot about it. Now it looks like I have accumulated a connoisseur's collection of classic fakes'!  

That's a hell of a claim to fame. Ha!   

Question for the OP:

Why get your ass kicked over a fake watch?

Give 'em the real thing.  

Looks like he already has the IWC he likes so why not just stop there and call it quits on newer IWC models.

Wait a minute! That makes too much sense.  

Yes, I got a few on 'Abay/Womart' (website) submariners about 10 or 12 years ago. Traded them away.

edit 1-20-15...

Took time to dig into some more boxes and found a few vintage type SD and no dates with operating He valves and crossways emblems.

Forgot all about them, but will hang onto them for now.

  VRF types who put aftermarket parts (Fake! to them) on their heirloom rolex probably lie about if they can get by with it.

"Is that a fake bezel?"

"No it's an Official Aftermarket bezel. They cost $500, fakes are only $35."

"What's the difference?"

"Uh, 465 dollars."                                    

In my Official Replica Rule Book a 'fake' part would have to be a replicated 'signed' part. Unsigned parts are just 'aftermarket' parts.

Ha!

Crazy Sale on Official Aftermarket Parts!

Call Paul.    

Still have some Crazy Sale! watches from Paul. Now the movements are worth more than I paid for the watches. Every one had a new swiss Eta except for the last one and it had a Seagull 2836 clone.

Agree with tomhorn and dp.

Genuine rolex movements have no advantage over an Eta in a replica and only a slight advantage in Frankensteins. The difference in the worth of a Rolexstien vs an Etastein is only the price difference of the movement.

If you use a genuine rolex 162xx case, a rolex 1520/70 no date movement with a 1016 dial will drop right in. A 1520/70 will not fit properly in a genuine 16xxx case because the stem will be too far to the front.

A rolex no date 1520/70 is very close to the same size as a rolex 3135.

Many of the lady PP models are quartz. Matter of fact, both gents and ladies genuine PP used to have Eta quartz movements in them. Do not know what they use now. Probably like cartier, they used to have quartz Etas in them but now they have $300 to $500 'in house' cartier/ebel movements.

Friend of mine had a lady PP that had a $1200 (iirc) estimate to fix and we fixed it for $35 with a new Eta just like what was in it. The PP had the detent button changed around and we just swapped the parts out. There was no Eta stamp or part number on it.

Detent...You took the case apart from the front and removed the hands and dial to get to the detent button, then you pushed the detent button from the top side to release the stem.

The time and date and time only gents models used to have Eta 955.xxx with a goldtone PP signed cover on the top of the movement to disguise them.

The down side was you had a $7k watch with $200 worth of gold and a $25 movement. The up side was they were cheap to fix and much more reliable than PP mechanical movements.

"I bet there are a lot of angry watch execs right now."

Imho it could not happen to a nicer bunch of SOBs. They have been jacking prices for years because of greed...it's about time they got a taste of their own medicine. When a product that no one needs jumps greatly in price, demand falls like a rock.

Besides new watch prices rising, a swiss Eta 2836 will probably soon be $300 and a 7750 around $700.

Now would be a good time for the China Clonemasters to clean up their act and blow the dirt out of their clones and maybe squirt a little oil in them. But they won't do it.

After the dust settles, it will cost more to feed Frankenstein if he yearns for swi$$ parts.   

Agree with HH.

My MBK '5513' crystal retaining ring was too small so I changed the whole thing out for a Clark/ST bezel kit.

If you have a precision digital caliper you can measure the OD of the crystal after it is pressed down on the case neck and compare it with the ID of the crystal retaining ring. Measure the crystal and ring in 4 places and go with the bigger crystal OD and smaller bezel ID remembering that the bezel will conform to the crystal a little bit if both are close to being true round.  

About .2 or .3mm difference between crystal OD and ring ID is usually Ok, much more may crack the crystal.

If you can push the retaining ring down with your fingers it is too loose.

Caliper check...measure something 5 or 6 times, it should be the same every time.

No link to anything and since I do not take pictures, I have not posted any pictures.

I have a lot of genuine stuff saved over the years with most of it mixed in with watches and parts of all kinds so I can not find any certain part without a day long search. This morning I dug out some genuine parts (bracelets mostly) and of course there was not a single folded oyster in the bunch to compare with a WI/Mary bracelet. The genuine folded oyster bracelet must be on a watch.

I can't even find the WI/Mary 7836 bracelet that I turned into a 9315 type.

"...pics or it didn't happen."

Some nice sunny day I will put my replica watch junk together in one pile, genuine stuff in another pile, take a few pictures of it, and send them to Nanuq and he can vouch for me so I will have a little bit of credibility.  

I do keep genuine stuff separated from replica stuff with notes on what's what.

I always figured the 7836 and 9315 were the same except for the 9315 accepting 2mm springbars and different clasp and hoods. You can make a pretty good replica '9315' with a 'Mary' 7836, a long clasp with or without diver extension, and proper hoods. You need to use a clasp with 8 adjustment holes in a row, not staggered like on a 93150.

I made a '9315' using a 'Mary' 7836 and the main trouble was finding a connector piece to attach the flip lock end of the clasp to the bracelet. I had to take the last link in the bracelet apart and use a different connecting link.

I left the dive extension off so the extra links would fit under the clasp cap without removing a link.

Rivet flip locks...

I had a genuine 6538 from the late 1950s and it had a swiss rivet oyster with a long clasp and the flip lock lever laid flat on top of the clasp cap, there was no notch in the top of the clasp cap for the fliplock lever. It did not have a diver extension either. It laid on my desk for years but I can't find it right now.

Update..

I found the old clasp cap and it has 8 adjustment holes like the 9315 and the top is similar to a later cap except for no indention for the flip lock lever. It also has crimped 'buttons' between the last two adjustment holes to hold the bracelet under the cap.

The flip lock hinge hole is pulled out on the left side.

The way I see it is if a replica or any relatively low value watch is running Ok...let it go until it acts up.

When a Chinese powered replica causes trouble (DG, NN, Sea Gull etc) replace it with a new movement if the rest of the watch is worth it.

If it is a Chinese etaclone, replace it with a swiss Eta if $$ allows. This is an expensive proposition if it is an A7750 though.

I have had a few Chinese powered replicas that still run Ok after 5 years and have a few that were just barely running when new and quit soon after. All in all they are just not very good with Sea Gull being the best of the bunch in my experience. Etaclones are Ok if they run all right to begin with but not worth spending much $$ on repairs imho. Time and date swiss Etas are worth a reasonable repair cost but not worth spending close to what a new one sells for (around $200 for 28xx now). The catch is that a lot of 'new' swiss Etas have been stored for 5 to 10 years and need c/o to get them in good running order.

Things were a lot different a few years ago when a new swiss Eta 2836 sold for $59 but now anything mechanical from Switzerland is rapidly getting too expensive.

There is a LOT to be said for quartz watches. After wearing a mechanical watch for a week or two being careful not to slam it or drop it and having to wear it to make it run etc, it's a great relief to put a quartz watch on. Matter of fact, I am wearing a late 1980s quartz Zodiac 'red dot' dive watch now after putting up with a 1520 powered '5513' Frankenstein for a couple weeks.

A replica oysterquartz DJ or Omg SMP would be nice.

The question for me is...who would pay $1180 for a bracelet that went for $200 a few years ago? Imho of course.

I assembled a genuine 93150 except for the diver extension from parts and have $35 in it up to now so my perspective on these things is totally different.

A friend bought out a jewelry store in Kentucky a few years ago that was a rolex AD in the 1960s through the 1980s and he got about 20 pounds of bracelets and bracelet parts for a couple hundred bucks.

Current prices knock me flat.

I guess I have been in this game too long.  

Look up Omega vs Costco and go to Wiki for the explanation.

I remember when Sam's Club had nib gray mkt rolex watches in their showcases and rolex sued them (as usual) so Sam's agreed to stop selling the brand. If they fought it they could have worn rolex USA down to a nub in court. Rolex seems to forget they are just 'visitors' in the USA and Wal Mart/Sam's is the big dog.

If it was up to me it would be dog eat dog.  

Every watch or part I ever sent back to China disappeared without a trace. Every one.

My advice would be same as kernow's, have it repaired locally.

...or take the loss.

Btw...two years running on the average replica with a China movement is not too bad. 

Swiss movement service life depends on age, condition, and treatment.

If we knew what movement it had, the answer might be more specific.

That thing should last 25 years because all the wear/stress is on steel rather than gold.

It looks like there is almost as much gold on the link as a bracelet with hollow solid gold mid links.  

The problem with Chinese etaclones is low quality control and no parts. I do not see this changing as long as they can get by with it. They can not enter the 'swiss quality' arena with the stuff they are making now.

I have had good luck with Sea Gull movements...ST6, ST16, and ST19. An outfit in Switzerland is souping the ST16 up and calling it the 'swiss made' Claro Semag.

The run of the mill ST6 and ST16 are usually very good but the ST19 has more problems being a chronograph and they are hard to work on plus replacement movements are expensive. If you get a good one they will run for years usually depending on how much you start, stop, and reset the chronograph.

Something else about ultrasonic cleaning...when cleaning a bracelet be sure to put the bracelet in the machine with the clasp unlatched. If the us machine is extra powerful it will often etch the contact surfaces where the clasp is snapped together and make it hard to open and close.