I miss this hobby

[StormTooper4]

PARROTS PARROTS PARROTS , (in a chant stylie)

[cornerstone]

To summarise again...

Suggestions:

• Expand from replica watches to include replica parrots. This is a brand new area, everything would be new. Also likely to be pirates involved. Argh.
  
• Create a community replica parrot, run by Blade.
  
• Cocaine debts, embezzlement, fake raffles, fake raffle winners, and fake member numbers seem to be popular on other watch forums....
  
• More boobies.
  
• If Hublot ever bring out a new watch that might be helpful.
  
• A new trend into tiny, teeny little watches.
  
• A love rival for Miss Understood?
  

PARROTS PARROTS PARROTS , (in a chant stylie)

And in a major, forum-first announcement, TTK is soon to reveal his prototype V1 parrot... NSFW

[Noel Fleischer]

I've been here 41/2 years and in that time I've seen my collection of both reps

and gens grow alot. Like many other people, I stumbled here almost by accident. I was buying alot of stuff

from the 'scam sites' like Ideal and BestSwiss. When I saw the actual prices direct from the dealers, I was like a kid in a candy store.

I couldn't believe you could get a nice rep, ex. IWC Ingy for about $250. I paid over $1000 for a TT Daytona at BestSwiss.

Now, after about 20 years of collecting I'm kinda stuck. I still buy some reps, but I've never been a modder and I never seem to sell anything.

So I'm left with about 25 gens and 60 reps. Honestly I've become annoyed with the gen manufacturers and the constant rate hikes every 6 months or so.

I'm just not going to spend $6000 for a simple SS watch like a Rolex DJ ($8500 for the DJ2!!) The prices have almost doubled in the last 4-5 years,

and I'm not even including the rise in the price of gold. Instead I have a $200 copy of the DJ and $8300 in my pocket.

[By-Tor]

Thanks for the reminder... I had already forgotten about Idealwatches. One of the first scam sites... ironically it's still up.

http://idealwatches.com/

Even good old Replica Center is still kicking:

http://replicacenter.com/

Unbelievable.

[Noel Fleischer]

The ironic thing is Ideal actually sold some nice watches, granted at very inflated prices. I have a few that must be TW Best models

from 2005 or 2006 that work great and were very nice 'wrapped TT' with solid looking mid links that have held up really well.

I recently saw a post @ RG from a guy that bought a SS Daytona from them with real Valjoux 7750 inside. That watch also works great for more than 7

years. I must have bought 5 watches from them and never had an issue mechanically. At $750 for a Sub though, I would have preferred to service it

once for $100 and pay $200.

[Shundi]

Haven't been around in a while (all gens now) but - I totally agree. I popped on to a number of the boards a few weeks back because that's where I learned more about movements and history than I ever could have through "traditional" methods.

Sadly... it seems that's dried up...

I don't know about you, but I miss the "earlier days" of this hobby. Reps weren't so accurate but they were cheap as hell. Paul was selling ETA-powered reps for $170 and people were buying like crazy. Lots of traffic in the forum (although back then the community wasn't divided into 5-6 different camps). Personally, I never understood why we need all those forums but that's another story...

We had only a handful of great replicas. None of them would qualify as "super reps" now... not even close, but they were still great: initial Seamaster Pro, TW Best Sub, those extremely inaccurate MBW's (that had mythical reputation), glass back Moon Watch, etc. etc.

Remember watcher's China Sub vs. Gen comparison in the original RWG? People praised the rep and it was amazing how accurate it felt back then. Now people would laugh at it. Pictures of modded WM9's can fool even Tribal and Ubi.

I remember how happy I was with my fantasy Speedy. Now that kind of new release would get hammered by the membership. We have some replications that are literally 98% (visually). Are we happier now? I don't think so.

Back in 2005 people were enthusiastic. All out-of-the-box reps got praise from the members. Now we need a $3000 frankenwatch to get any kind of discussion going. Don't get me wrong, it's great that we have those amazing watches (and builders) among us, but what about ordinary buyers who don't have the money/skills? Is anyone still interested in their new purchase?

Ubi wrote that he feels bored. I don't feel bored but I simply don't have anything to buy, or any reviews to write. What to write about? We have seen it all. I haven't even picked up my camera in a LONG time to photograph the watches.

Maybe we older members have simply "raced" it all and reached our goals? Have we become "elitists", just like the gen watch snobs? I mean seriously, have we lost some members because of that kind of attitude?

This isn't supposed to be a negative post. I'm just wondering what we could do better to return this forum into its original glory. We have been discussing this in the admin room but I'd also like to hear some ideas from the membership.

[permabull]

I agree on some of the points raised, especially the fact that maybe the world of reps and therefore the forum itself has gone more mainstream - it's more about people's addiction to brands than love of watches and of tinkering with tiny mechanisms.

Though we want to be careful of using the same tone as "In my day we had to walk to school uphill both ways, in 10 feet of snow, we didn't have electricity... yada yada yada"

[Watchmeister]

We miss the hobby because it is no longer a hobby - at least reps aren't. They are a business. Top of the line reps are readily available via numerous sources on the internet and the only hiccup is an occasional customs seizure. We get QC pics and even have some return capability. Our old "hobby" of desperately searching for that super secret rep or the dealer who no one knows about or simply sharing that information is gone. We all still look forward to the reviews and comparisons to gen but a large portion of what was our hobby is gone or at least a lot less important. If you want a Rolex you can now readily find everything from the $100 Canal Street piece to MBW to Wong, Phong or whatever.

So if reps are not really a hobby per se the question is what is our hobby here and I think the answer is more broadly sharing friendship and horological information - whether it is about real life, the latest rep, someone's new franken or even an interesting gen. Like many other folks here I spend a lot less time thinking about reps and more about my friends here, pursuing projects with friends when appropriate and reading things of broader horological interest. In fairness, I like most other posters here have been there and done that as well so that will certainly impact my feelings. But it is also great to see the excitement of a new recruit. By the way, my toes are still recovering from the frostbite I got when walking that 10 miles to school in a snowstorm - in barefeet of course.

[dluddy]

So if reps are not really a hobby per se the question is what is our hobby here and I think the answer is more broadly sharing friendship and horological information - whether it is about real life, the latest rep, someone's new franken or even an interesting gen.

Kind of sums it up for me too. It has always been about more than the rep's for me.

[seafoam]

I haven't read all the responses from this post yet BT but I've often thought the forums were both the dealers best friend and worst nightmare at the same time. While the forums offer a lot of exposure for the dealers they also offer a lot of discussion as to the dealers product good or bad. Don't get me wrong, i like a little point counter point but i think this forum actually turned me off of buying reps from the dealers and possibly reps altogether. I think maybe I've learned a little too much about reps and their accuracy (out of box). I used to love getting a rep in the mail then i would read all the negative and inaccuracy posts and i would sell the rep and the search continued. After 2 years of that, i think I'm done (yeah right) Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Edited July 25, 2011 by seafoam

[redwatch]

You raise a good point Seafoam. I do find some of the negativity somewhat annoying. I remember getting super excited about a new rep I had just gotten only to have it torn to pieces by some of the WIS's here and then the allure was ruined for me.

I think in some cases we are all a little guilty about pointing out some of the many flaws of our members reps and maybe that is somewhat counter productive. If you like the watch, then good for you. Let it make you happy as long as it can.

On the flip side though, pointing out flaws in the watches has most likely contributed to the rep dealers pushing for better quality reps (which we have been getting lately)

Either way, I am here for the friendships and the vast horological knowledge so I can continue what I believe is my part of the hobby - learning to work on and repair/build watches. That (along with the friendships) is my favorite part about being a member of RWG

[TeeJay]

You raise a good point Seafoam. I do find some of the negativity somewhat annoying. I remember getting super excited about a new rep I had just gotten only to have it torn to pieces by some of the WIS's here and then the allure was ruined for me.

I think in some cases we are all a little guilty about pointing out some of the many flaws of our members reps and maybe that is somewhat counter productive. If you like the watch, then good for you. Let it make you happy as long as it can.

On the flip side though, pointing out flaws in the watches has most likely contributed to the rep dealers pushing for better quality reps (which we have been getting lately)

Either way, I am here for the friendships and the vast horological knowledge so I can continue what I believe is my part of the hobby - learning to work on and repair/build watches. That (along with the friendships) is my favorite part about being a member of RWG

I remember reading about a guy who took a Sub he'd had for ten years in for servicing, only to be told it was a rep. I can only begin to imagine how miserable that change in perception made him

[jeff g]

As a result of not being around so much these days, I feel I am late to this discussion, nevertheless I do have a few things to say.

#1. It used to be more about the comraderie. More about the experience of sharing with others who had the same passion.

I have actually more enjoyed the interaction with the members than the love of fine watches. I am not so much bored as I am uninspired.

#2. I too, own all the watches I have ever wanted to own. Rep's, I could never afford the gen's.

#3. Largess, I liked it more when there were only dozen's of us. Hundred's much less thousands have diluted the mixture.

#4. When Eddie Lee left, I kinda left too.

#5. Having DLG as a close personal friend , and having spent time with guys like Omni pretty much have taken the place of waiting for watches to come in the mail.

I could go on, but who really cares.

I miss the good ol days...even though I know that these too are the good ol days.

This forum is still VERY COOL. There are still many great members. There is still much to learn.

Edited July 26, 2011 by jeff g

[Baryonic Matter]

As a result of not being around so much these days, I feel I am late to this discussion, nevertheless I do have a few things to say.

#1. It used to be more about the comraderie. More about the experience of sharing with others who had the same passion.

I have actually more enjoyed the interaction with the members than the love of fine watches. I am not so much bored as I am uninspired.

#2. I too, own all the watches I have ever wanted to own. Rep's, I could never afford the gen's.

#3. Largess, I liked it more when there were only dozen's of us. Hundred's much less thousands have diluted the mixture.

#4. When Eddie Lee left, I kinda left too.

#5. Having DLG as a close personal friend , and having spent time with guys like Omni pretty much have taken the place of waiting for watches to come in the mail.

I could go on, but who really cares.

I miss the good ol days...even though I know that these too are the good ol days.

This forum is still VERY COOL. There are still many great members. There is still much to learn.

Cheer up, I'm here now, what more could you want.

.

[Movementum]

I had an idea... stay tuned..

Edited July 26, 2011 by Movementum

[HPoirot]

I think the problem can be summarized by this phrase: "It's gotten too easy to get great reps."

[Watchmeister]

I am enjoying reading other folks thread. As I read other folks thoughts I started thinking how I do spend my time here because I do obviously still spend a lot of time here. And the real answer is that I still have a good time. the time is spent differently. I still chase down silly projects with good friends. Some of those friends have disappeared over the years. But I have also picked up new ones and we have worked on fun projects together. The other thing I have found is that it is actually fun helping a new member chase down or build their grail. So although the flavor has changed the fun has not. And in spite of the fact that I am very selective on buying reps I do get a kick out of watching new folks getting into the sport. I think as older members , as many of us are, we have to remember that in spite of the gold rush into reps by a much larger group of folks there are still that small group of people who share your particular passion and if you find them it keeps it fun and exciting. I guess it is a long way of saying that our own personal interest can change but if we are fortunate enough to meet one or two folks along the way in a given year and develop a new friendship that in itself is where the fun is. Okay, that was a little soppy.

[RedSoxMan]

I think it's human nature to romanticize our memories from the past...

This hobby is stronger and better than ever. Pam builds -- vintage, pre-v and contemporary -- are now at an incredible place in terms of accuracy. There are more creative, innovative strap-makers. Having different forums just gives hobbyists options, nothing wrong with that.

I don't miss the old days at all.

Edited July 26, 2011 by RedSoxMan

[andreww]

What really rubs me the wrong way these days is the constant harping on the most minute of flaws. I've seen very good reps absolutely panned by the membership for having the tiniest flaw. My favorite watch is still my Navitimer, a watch that I bought many years ago, and although it is far from perfect, I have never been called out on it. I have reps in my box that approach perfection (Graham Tech Seal, V1 Seamaster Chrono, etc.), but the watches that I wear the most are probably the least accurate of the lot, simply because those are the watches I love and I just don't sweat the small stuff as far as details go.

Back in the day I used to write some pretty extensive reviews. These days its pretty hard to actually contribute anything of relevance. It seems that within hours of a watch's release the skeptics have already studied it, identified the one minor flaw, and decreed that the watch is not worth buying until that flaw is fixed. By the time any of us actually get the watch in our hands, it has been discussed to death, and their really isn't anything new to say about it. This happened when I got my V3 Skyland. I spent days writing a lengthly review, taking pics and studying gen pics. Once complete I gave it a final read and just felt disappointed that their was nothing in it that hadn't been discussed a million times in a million threads. The review never saw the light of day and I've never attempted another.

Another shift I have seen over the years in the forums is that people seem to be less generous than in the old days. What ever happened to buying a watch, wearing it for a year, then selling it for half of what it cost you? It astounds me that people will buy a used watch from a complete stranger, take all the risk, simply to save ten or twenty dollars (sometimes not even that). In the old days there was more of a giving spirit (as seen by Ubi in this very thread) that was rampant throughout the forum. If someone posted that they'd lost or broken a part, it was generally answered fairly quickly with "I'll send you one". These days its more likely to be ignored or replied with "email Josh, he'll sell you one".

As to what we can do to liven things up around here? Thats a more difficult question. This hobby isn't as underground as it used to be and finding quality reps is far easier than it was. Reps are in most cases 1 to 1 so building a franken is more an exercise in spending money more than a show of craftsmanship. Once elusive straps are now being produced everywhere. I think because of these factors the need for sites like ours has simply diminished. Fewer questions, fewer answers, results in slower traffic. Maybe its time to invite Neil back

[TeeJay]

What really rubs me the wrong way these days is the constant harping on the most minute of flaws. I've seen very good reps absolutely panned by the membership for having the tiniest flaw. My favorite watch is still my Navitimer, a watch that I bought many years ago, and although it is far from perfect, I have never been called out on it. I have reps in my box that approach perfection (Graham Tech Seal, V1 Seamaster Chrono, etc.), but the watches that I wear the most are probably the least accurate of the lot, simply because those are the watches I love and I just don't sweat the small stuff as far as details go.

Back in the day I used to write some pretty extensive reviews. These days its pretty hard to actually contribute anything of relevance. It seems that within hours of a watch's release the skeptics have already studied it, identified the one minor flaw, and decreed that the watch is not worth buying until that flaw is fixed. By the time any of us actually get the watch in our hands, it has been discussed to death, and their really isn't anything new to say about it. This happened when I got my V3 Skyland. I spent days writing a lengthly review, taking pics and studying gen pics. Once complete I gave it a final read and just felt disappointed that their was nothing in it that hadn't been discussed a million times in a million threads. The review never saw the light of day and I've never attempted another.

Another shift I have seen over the years in the forums is that people seem to be less generous than in the old days. What ever happened to buying a watch, wearing it for a year, then selling it for half of what it cost you? It astounds me that people will buy a used watch from a complete stranger, take all the risk, simply to save ten or twenty dollars (sometimes not even that). In the old days there was more of a giving spirit (as seen by Ubi in this very thread) that was rampant throughout the forum. If someone posted that they'd lost or broken a part, it was generally answered fairly quickly with "I'll send you one". These days its more likely to be ignored or replied with "email Josh, he'll sell you one".

As to what we can do to liven things up around here? Thats a more difficult question. This hobby isn't as underground as it used to be and finding quality reps is far easier than it was. Reps are in most cases 1 to 1 so building a franken is more an exercise in spending money more than a show of craftsmanship. Once elusive straps are now being produced everywhere. I think because of these factors the need for sites like ours has simply diminished. Fewer questions, fewer answers, results in slower traffic. Maybe its time to invite Neil back

Now now, things aren't that bad

I know what you mean about reviews and whatnot, as that's something I always enjoyed doing, I think sadly, as you said, things get so discussed, that formal reviews're pretty much just rehashing of existing commentaries, and it can be difficult to come up with fresh input

[Usil]

Andreww - ...the watches that I wear the most are probably the least accurate of the lot, simply because those are the watches I love and I just don't sweat the small stuff...

BT and Andreww are where I am now. I have about 30 watches I have kept and given a few away to grateful sons and daughter and pretty much have the watches I want, faults and all. I do keep track of the forum news from time to time and the new H factory stuff coming out gets me a little excited but the prices are high enough so that I probably won't buy one or maybe consider one by the end of the year.

The feeling of the forum has changed and I do miss that but new blood is in the mix and time passes to the next generation. I still appreciate that there are some old timers still around and enjoy hearing their thoughts.

I have always felt that this is a great forum and wish it continued success.

Usil

[RedSoxMan]

What really rubs me the wrong way these days is the constant harping on the most minute of flaws. I've seen very good reps absolutely panned by the membership for having the tiniest flaw.

I beg to differ -- I'd rather have an educated/informed critique of a rep, and have all the information in terms of flaws, so I can make a personal decision as to what bugs me as an individual. If a half-decent rep come out with some flaws, and everyone just says "great" and smiles and thanks the rep factories, we'll be stuck in mediocrity -- and the watches (and hobby) won't evolve. These forums are nothing if they aren't about the open exchange of information.

As for Frankens and "builds" -- I think the time is better than ever with Pams (if you really appreciate accuracy and subtlety...)

Edited July 26, 2011 by RedSoxMan

[ubiquitous]

I've been thinking about this thread a bit as well and have come to realize that one of the things I kinda miss are the typos and the sort that the factories would include on reps (whether by accident or intended). Things like OFFICNE PANERAI, ORIG. POLEX DESNG, GELENA SHITINERAND, AUTOMATC CHRONOGRAPH, etc. It was almost like a scavenger hunt...

[By-Tor]

I wouldn't trade our current watches to old reps, either. That wasn't the point.

I'm sure it wasn't the bad replications that made us "happier". The point was that we should think more ideas to keep things interesting and entertaining. A lot of us older members are happily standing pat with our collections... the hunt is over. So that means we're not the "creative force" anymore.

Someone said that we could use some new blood. I totally agree. Redwatch and Freddy have been very good additions to the admin team. Maybe we should shake things up a bit more?

[Stephane]

Someone said that we could use some new blood. I totally agree. Redwatch and Freddy have been very good additions to the admin team.

+1, and Andy...