J&W 6263: That Big Red Freshness

[lhooq]

“Conan, why do you build Daytona frankens with Valjoux 72 movements?”

“To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women. But mostly so you can use a genuine dial.”

I’m loath to call any watch a "Grail". One of my pet peeves is how the term gets thrown around to describe any flavor of the month or passing fancy. A Grail, per the late Chuck Maddox, is supposed to be the goal at the end of a quest both long and difficult. In Chuck's case, it was a Speedmaster Automatic with a Lemania 5100. In my universe of reps and frankens, I think this build qualifies (at least, until I can figure out how to assemble a CK2915 Speedy out of spare parts). So here, then, is my Grail Daytona.

I still don't like the way that sounds.

I've had my share of vintage Daytona reps over the years, but my first love was the 6263 with the standard silver dial, featuring "Daytona" in red script. In other words, "Big Red". In my early days on RWG, I was inspired by the Daytonas of guys like like Freddy, avitt, Eunomians, and several others. But the one post that I remember most clearly -and is actuallys till bookmarked- is vlaletom's comprehensively photographed DW 6263 with Roamer Stingray movement. It was a beautiful build, and it staggered me to consider the effort needed to gather those parts and put the thing together. The dial was a wonderfully detailed, aftermarket Big Red--the best dial that DW ever produced, in my opinion. The panda 6263 was the configuration I chose when I placed my first order with DW in 2009. Unfortunately, the dial I got was a bit on the crap side, and it was replaced after a few months by a Daytona-less ROC.

That first 6263 was joined by a DW 6239/7750 the following year. Then in 2011, I finally joined the V72 club with my FAP 6239. But it was always my plan to return to the 6263--with a vengeance! More recent inspirations include ubiquitous's pristine 6265 with service dial, and wiesn089's 6265 with an original black Sigma dial. I had the opportunity to buy both of these watches and save a bit of cash, but, well... Putting one together is just too much fun, isn't it? As nice as DW's old "Big Red" was, I resolved to snag a genuine dial if one showed up at a reasonable price.

I'm not sure what was the exact catalyst for this build. It may have been the 571 endlinks that I got for a great price at the start of the year. (I'm serious: A pair of endlinks might have started this.) I also had a couple of 6263/V72 cases from DW's "Retirement Sale"--right before my dealings with him turned sour. Then in February, I started talking to vlydog about possible movements for his 6263 build, and I think that's when I seriously thought about getting on with my own project. I braced my wallet for future financial shocks, and begin my search for a movement.

Movement

My first candidate was a Valjoux 72 from a Gallet. As it turned out, I couldn't bring myself to tear apart such a handsome watch, so its movement stayed where it was. Good thing I had spotted a Valjoux 726 less than 24 hours after winning the Gallet. Better still, the 726 was inside a frankly hideous Jules Jurgensen from the late 1970s. The Valjoux 726, for those that don't know, is one of the final evolutions of the Valjoux 72: 21600bph instead of the older movement's 18000bph, and it served as the base movement for the Rolex 727. Perfect for a 6263.

Those are brown subdials in a gold dial, ringed with a huge fluted bezel that made the watch look like a metal sunflower. (Gut it! Gut it!) Here's the relocated V726. On the right, note the phony service marks, courtesy of Phong:

Big thanks to alligoat for helping me secure this donor watch on short notice.

Case

The original plan was to start with a final-generation DW 6263 case, and have it extensively modified. However, valty's case comparison weighed heavily on my mind--particularly the thinness of the Phong case versus the DW. The thick midsection was something I noticed when I had placed my old DW 6263 next to a genuine. Was the improvement over DW worth the 400-500% increase in price? Honestly, no, but rationality doesn't figure into most of this build.

This was the first time I had ordered anything from Phong, so I should note that he was very easy to deal with. He also gave me a choice: Did I want an unblemished, new-look 6263 case, or one that had undergone the "vintage" treatment? I didn't know precisely what he meant by that so I asked for pictures. He sent me a series of comparison shots, and I was intrigued. I went for vintage.

On the left is "vintage" Phong; on the right is a never-used DW 6263 case. Note the reflections. Not only were the sharp edges dulled, but the polished surfaces of the steel had taken on a cloudy sheen. It wasn't a satin finish; you could still see your own reflection, albeit through a soft-focus lens. The metal didn't appear to be scuffed-up, but looked naturally worn:

Now let's take a closer look at the surface of the "vintage" case:

Interesting… Is it an effect caused by chemicals, or several layers of of scuff/polish?

It's a very nice case, though not quite a spitting image of the gen. As on the DW, it would be nice if the crown protruded less, and was more tightly tucked beneath the bezel lip. It would be nice if the upper portion of the pusher cutouts intersected with the upper edge of the lugs. And it would also be nice if the lugholes were positioned more accurately, eliminating the need to modify the 571 endlinks for a proper fit. I'm also sure that the shape of the genuine lugs is composed of more compound curves. However, all of these would only be noticed in a direct side-by-side, and maybe only in macro shots. Move your eyes back a few inches and this Phong case is very convincing.

Note the serial number. Not only is this a faux-birth-year watch for me, but the last six digits make it a birthday watch, too. I stole that idea from ubiquitous!

Dial & Hands

This was the big one. I had managed to find an old DW dial for the Valjoux 72 from another member. It looked terrific--far better than any DW dial I'd previously owned, but I only ever planned to use it in a worst-case scenario. Soon after, a service dial showed up on eBay. Unfortunately, I lost the bidding war to our very own vlydog (but we're still on good terms!), and had to look again. Eventually, I was able to find a genuine service dial (stamped "Singer") from a seller in Italy. It was a huge relief when I finally opened that small, plastic box containing the dial. That was three weeks ago, in upstate New York.

It's a beautiful dial, and it's great not having to worry about how well or how poorly the smallest detail has been replicated. I can spot a bit of wear on the areas immediately surrounding the subdials, but otherwise the condition is excellent. Everything is wonderfully crisp, and the base color takes on a coppery hue when viewed under certain lights and at acute angles.

Unfortunately, I missed out on a genuine handset. Instead, I used DW hands for everything except the chronograph sweep, which came from Phong.

Bezel

I recently reviewed three 6263 bezels, which you can read about here. I thought the New York bezel was the best of the bunch, and close enough in appearance to a genuine hoop. Gen bezel prices have exploded in the past year, and it's become difficult for me to justify the cost versus the marginal improvement in accuracy. And I didn't want to ruin the overall look of this watch by buying a cheaper-but-damaged bezel.

Incidentally, the crystal is a genuine Tropic 21.

Crown & Pushers

I briefly considered genuine Mk 1 pushers and reconfiguring the watch as an early-70s 6263, but decided to minimize costs and headches. Besides, I can’t tell the difference between Ofrei pushers and the later gen units, so I ordered from Otto. The crown is an early 703 with the tall coronet. It came to me courtesy of vlydog, a most hospitable gentleman.

On the right photo, note the shallow cutouts for the pushers. This is another flaw of the Phong case, as the gen has more pronounced indentations. DW replicated those details more accurately.

Bracelet & Endlinks

As I mentioned above, I was able to snag a pair of 571s for a great price. Unfortunately, it took a lot of trimming and reshaping by my watchsmith to get them to fit the Phong case properly. They were so changed, in fact, that I wondered whether I should have used and modified the 557s that came with the bracelet, and sold the 571s for a quick gain on VRM. Well, what’s done is done, and at least I get to see those '571' stampings from behind.

wiesn089 helped me find and verify a genuine 78350 that was legitimate, in good condition, and priced well. If you haven’t read it yet, his comparison of a gen bracelet versus aftermarket 78350s is an invaluable resource. The springbars are from Ofrei.

Alternatively, I still love a Daytona on Tropic rubber:

I’m still not sure about calling this 6263 a Grail. I’ve had longer projects (like my Omega Seamaster 300 and Tudor 7032 V2), and this build went more smoothly and swiftly than others. But this is definitely the most expensive frankensteiner I’ve ever put together, and I have wanted a Big Red since 2009. So… Grail. Sure.

But don’t mistake my indifference to the term with my feelings toward Big Red. I absolutely love it.

So kiss a little longer, stay close a little longer

Hold tight a little longer, longer with Big Red!

That Big Red freshness lasts right through it

Your fresh breath goes on and on, while you chew it!

Say goodbye a little longer, make it last a little longer

Give your breath long-lasting freshness, with Big Red!!!

[redwatch]

M!! You really have to stop with these incredible Daytona builds!!! You are going to make me want to build one!!

Well done and looks incredible!! That dial is simply something else!

[dbutlerman]

Beautiful M! Amazing, Amazing, Amazing. Your write-up's and photos are amazing!

[wiesn089]

BEAUTIFUL!

Amazing stuff, M! Another great writeup and superb watch, a true work of art! I'm with you in your opinion on Phong's case, but after you've gathered all these parts, the few hundred more shouldn't matter anyhow . In the end, a few happy months on the wrist later on you won't even care.

[sgtguk]

Simply Awesome looking piece and I'm not a lover of the Daytona...well I wasn't till now

A Grail for sure !

[tomhorn]

Another great build!

I have two I'm in the middle of now, but once complete I hope to go down the same path ... except I will swap bezels and make it a 6265. Thanks for the inspiration.

[danielv2000]

Wonderful write up and a beautiful watch!

[alligoat]

Simply amazing M! I'm blown away and your pictures are beautiful too. Congrats

[lhooq]

Thanks, all! Incredibly, I've already received three compliments from people who never usually say anything about my watches--and I'm certain they've seen me wearing the old DW 6263/7750 before.

Is it the red "Daytona"? The solid bracelet and tight endlink fit? Or is the gen dial that much more effective at grabbing their attention? Right now, I'm guessing "all of the above", because the overall package has a presence and clarity that my old 6263 couldn't match.

[cc33]

It's the Gen dial for me!! Wow wow, that is a looker. I'm head over heals in love with these old daytonas, any variation, they are all gorgeous.

[coolfire]

Phong's case really looks awesome.

Wear her in good health, M.

[Kodiak]

Beautiful watch! Well done Sir, well done.

[Utheman]

Another incredible build and presentation!!

I want your best wallpaper shot...please?

[siesta181]

^{Thats an A class build there.... grats. looking forward to seeing this in person}

[vlydog]

Thanks, all! Incredibly, I've already received three compliments from people who never usually say anything about my watches--and I'm certain they've seen me wearing the old DW 6263/7750 before.

Is it the red "Daytona"? The solid bracelet and tight endlink fit? Or is the gen dial that much more effective at grabbing their attention? Right now, I'm guessing "all of the above", because the overall package has a presence and clarity that my old 6263 couldn't match.

All of the above Martin!

This is a gorgeous piece; congratulations.

I really enjoyed reading this post and viewing the amazing photos.

[preacher62]

Martin,

I viewed your thread this morning and was then rendered speechless. I went to therapy for two hours in order to compose myself and now I can only say WOW...WOW!

M

[dieselpower]

I have just picked myself up off the floor. The room is spinning and I feel a little fuzzy in the head. I'm coming round, slowly. Was it a dream? Did I really see what I think? I'll have to take another look, here goes..............(Thump!)...........Sorry, I just fainted again. But yes, it's true, I wasn't dreaming. I have to sit down. Keep calm, that's the trick, breathe slowly and deeply, you'll be ok, just hang on in there. Phew. I'm ok.

Thanks for that LHOOQ. You nearly ended the life of a husband and father of two. Have you no heart? Please do not post threads like this ever again without an appropriate health warning.

Absolutely stunning stuff, thanks so much for taking the effort to share such a great build and great photos with us.

[Donerix 2.0]

I have to agree: the endlink fit, the softness and patina of the case and the incredible dial make this watch.

Of course knowing how to piece words together to fascinate readers never hurts.

Well done M.

[MIKE32500]

I have the same issue with my 6263 / V 726.

Have you noticed that your minute hands is not enough deep ?

I do not have this problem with Valjoux 72X

Is it because of DW Hand?

[chiman12]

This build is so awesome that I have to say congrats again! Spectacular!

[lhooq]

So I was walking down the streets of Singapore the other day when I randomly run into siesta181 wearing his own beautiful 6263  franken. The silver sigma dial on it was gorgeous!  It just goes to show that no matter how nice your watch is, there's always room for more envy!

Thanks again for all the nice comments, everyone.

B and E, it was great meeting you in person earlier this month. to see how your own Super Daytona projects turn out. 

Mike: What issue are you referring to?

[Tonyyammine]

Amazing

[jmb]

M, I keep thinking each one of your projects is the ultimate but you always seem to manage to take even perfection to the next level!

[siesta181]

Had the chance to see this beauty in the flesh yesterday and pictures didn't do it justice. The details of of the Phong case does make the watch. And that dial, it was absolutely perfect. This was the the same dial that I was eyeing when it was on VRM. I deliberated for half a day too long and M was on it like the flash. Lesson learnt in the vintage daytona scene, when the right stuff comes up at the right price, just empty the bank acct. Worry about it later

[lhooq]

J: Thanks! I would really like to slow down on the projects, but there's always a spare part in the box that's just begging to be put to use! I spy yet another V72 in a small tin...

siesta: I didn't realize how close we'd come to buying each other's dials in June. Yes, spend fast and enjoy the watch before the bills arrive! It was great talking to you guys and meeting the mysterious legend Spinmaster!