We REALLY need your help

[Admin]

As I have written in some posts before, we've had a bit of bad luck lately. Last week our last remaining payment option got closed down. Since the forum rely on supporting members, this is not very good. What made it worse was that all funds in my account will be held for 90 days. These funds were supposed to pay the hosting/license bill that is due in 4-5 days. So this basically means that I have to do something that I really hate to do; ask for your hard earned money. We have needed your support before and now we need it again. It is of course up to you to decide if you can afford to contribute or not. I will not push any members into this, but I will say this; we now have 11673 members here. Out of these, we have 467 paying supporters. That's about 4% of the members. Last year, this number was 7%!

Now I am not saying that this number need to be as high as 7%. If it was that high, I would actually be making money from this forum, God forbid All I really want is enough supporters so that I;

1. Don't have to pay anything of the hosting bill myself. I do not like the fact that I have spent countless hours here and then I have to pay for all the work I have done. Last month I paid almost $500 out of my own pocket and since I don't have a steady income from my business yet, it really hurts in my wallet.

2. Don't have to worry about if we are going to have enough money to pay next months bills.

And yes, I know that I created this forum, so why should I not pay for it myself? Well, if you think that's fair and all info on the Internet should be free and bla, bla, bla, then so be it. We all have our opinions and you are of course entitled to yours.

So what are we going to do about this? Every time I post a post like this, there are several extremely generous members who step up and donate a lot of money. Already, a couple of these members have sent $100 each to help out this month and this is of course highly appreciated. But this forum is not for a few members. We have almost 12000 members here and all of these members use this server. They use it every time they read a post, load an image, send a PM, post a new post, etc. We are all responsible for the almost 400GB of bandwidth this server uses every month. And for those of you who do not know; RWG has a secure setup to protect it's members. We are hosted on a ridiculos expensive offshore server + we also have a reverse proxy server to hide our real location. Not gonna go into more details here, but try doing a search for offshore hosting. If you know anything about hosting, you will know that you can get a decent dedicated server from $100++. Offshore hosting does have it's own life and providing servers and bandwith is expensive and we are paying a high premium for this. Our monthly bills for everything has passed €1000 because of all the bandwidth we are using. Because of this and what I wrote above, we are €789 (about $1200) short this month.

Now, as several members have said before, there are many, many members who contribute with valuable content here and we truly do not except that you should pay to upgrade. You should be rewarded for this and we will look into if this can be done. The problem is that the members who contribut with content very often are dedicated members who often feel that they use the forum so often they upgrade or they upgrade because they feel it is worth it or they like it here. We all have our own reasons for upgrading or not.

So what should we do? Ideally, we whould have 300 members who paid $5 (that's dollars, not Euro, as we currently use) If more members were willing to pay, the price would be even lower. So should we just use monthly payments? I dunno. There are of course a couple of things to concider; Will we have the same amount of members who are willing to upgrade when they will have to pay $5 a month and not can just pay a lower, yearly price? You tell me. The dilemma for us in the last year has been the low dollar. Since we are paying for all of our services in Euro, we had to change our memberships from $ to € last year. And I have no problem understanding that €5 ($7. might be expensive. So that's why I am suggesting $5 as a monthly price again, as this might seem a bit more fair. But then we need more supporters....

If we then keep the yearly and discounted memberships (these would be $30 a year/$2.5 pr month) we would need an even higher of supporting members. But maybe this is just what will bring more supporters to the forum; a lower price?

Or maybe we should try the model of other forum; find a regular dedicated server somewhere in the world and cross our fingers that it will not be confisacted or monitored by some federal agency? This would for sure bring down our bills drastically. Another solution is to downgrade to a cheaper server. That would make the forum run slower and would not make it very enjoyable to spend time here, but that would also lower our bills.

So is there a point in all of this. Maybe. Even though it is highly appreciated, I think it is very unfair that we have a forum with the number of members we have and a very small percentage pay the bills. As I have said before, I do not expect every member who spend a lot of time here to contribute, since many of them provide extremely valuable content, but at the very least there should be enough members that contribute so that our bills are paid.

Even fewer people pay the bills when I post these posts, because we usually get some very generous donators who contact me fairly quickly when the board is in trouble. Since all members use of our resources, I don't think that's fair. But that's just me. Maybe I'm wrong and should not think like this?

To finish this off, please visit this site; http://www.seochamps.net/forum. You can use your excisting username(e-mail) and passord to log on and create a user account there.

Admin

Apologies for the terrible spelling. Missed a nail with a hammer and, well...you get the picture My fingers are not as accurate as they should be.

[Stephane]

I'm sick and tired about these issues.

I don't get it, really I don't get it, I will never get it.

We're talking about 5$ a month from a tiny fraction of the community members

I added a because it is not even what you would f u c k i n g pay for a bad coffee in a bar.

You would pay a 100 to get a b l o w j o b if you feel like that.

Anyways, I know what I have to do to keep this place alive and I know a bunch of people who are doing the same.

OH AND BY THE WAY I WANT TO ADD

Why the hell wouldn't the Admin/mod team make money out of this place.

Can you please tell me why these guys should spend time and energy for free ?

Would you? Then go and create your own b l o o d y forum and get rich.

The Admin/Mod team here deserve some cash for the job they do for the entire community

Stephane

[Cats]

It can't be true that due to some frozen account we get into trouble.

Hit the link and donate ofcourse if you want to.

Carpe Diem

Cats

[Justasgood]

It is a sorry state to have to point out the benefits of this home and the outstanding job done by the Admin staff and moderators.......Chrissakes, if I had $1200 sitting un-needed, I would send it.......for now, You'll have to accept my meager donation

Hey, you know how people on the Gen sites look down their collective noses at people who buy/wear reps? Well, how about the people who enjoy the fruits of other peoples hard work and un-tiring posts on How-to and Q@A........how should they be viewed.........not for me to say

[freddy333]

Help is on the way.

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

I remember before I became a supporter being told on a couple occasions that I shouldnt be asking for help without supporting. I remember feeling like this community was not much more than a bunch of snobby rep collectors with a chip on their collective shoulders.

Now for the sake of argument, I dont recall if a similar situation happened to be going on at the time... and if so, I guess the attitude was slightly justified. Because NOW as a SUPPORTER I am feeling rather frustrated at the lack of response.

There are MANY people here who do what they can to help. There are those that work for FREE. And there are those who provide vast amounts of information and assistance without asking for anything in return.

And yet these types of posts need to be made??? I just dont get it.

I want ONE member to step forward and explain this to me... Explain why ALL unpaid memberships should not simply be shut down. It would immediately cut down on server needs, band width necessary and the amount of senseless banter. AND, the supporters would most likely be more motivated to step forward. HELL, shut them down and I will personally pledge $400 to be sent immediately! In addition to the guitar I offered for auction! NOW I AM THE SNOB!!!

[Justasgood]

I remember before I became a supporter being told on a couple occasions that I shouldnt be asking for help without supporting. I remember feeling like this community was not much more than a bunch of snobby rep collectors with a chip on their collective shoulders.

Now for the sake of argument, I dont recall if a similar situation happened to be going on at the time... and if so, I guess the attitude was slightly justified. Because NOW as a SUPPORTER I am feeling rather frustrated at the lack of response.

There are MANY people here who do what they can to help. There are those that work for FREE. And there are those who provide vast amounts of information and assistance without asking for anything in return.

And yet these types of posts need to be made??? I just dont get it.

I want ONE member to step forward and explain this to me... Explain why ALL unpaid memberships should not simply be shut down. It would immediately cut down on server needs, band width necessary and the amount of senseless banter. AND, the supporters would most likely be more motivated to step forward. HELL, shut them down and I will personally pledge $400 to be sent immediately! In addition to the guitar I offered for auction! NOW I AM THE SNOB!!!

Amen and Amen!

Bravo, well said and I concur......no beat-downs needed

[cdv]

I remember before I became a supporter being told on a couple occasions that I shouldnt be asking for help without supporting. I remember feeling like this community was not much more than a bunch of snobby rep collectors with a chip on their collective shoulders.

Now for the sake of argument, I dont recall if a similar situation happened to be going on at the time... and if so, I guess the attitude was slightly justified. Because NOW as a SUPPORTER I am feeling rather frustrated at the lack of response.

There are MANY people here who do what they can to help. There are those that work for FREE. And there are those who provide vast amounts of information and assistance without asking for anything in return.

And yet these types of posts need to be made??? I just dont get it.

I want ONE member to step forward and explain this to me... Explain why ALL unpaid memberships should not simply be shut down. It would immediately cut down on server needs, band width necessary and the amount of senseless banter. AND, the supporters would most likely be more motivated to step forward. HELL, shut them down and I will personally pledge $400 to be sent immediately! In addition to the guitar I offered for auction! NOW I AM THE SNOB!!!

While I'm a newb, I realized early that I wanted to be a supporter. But, I can't agree with Carlsbadrolex on the shutting down of all unpaid members. Unfortunately, that is simply the way things are in this world. Limitations on what you can do as an unpaid member, on the other hand, seems reasonable. Sometimes it takes a little time for people to understand what a great place this is, so why cut them off? Those that sit around and just use the forum for an easy and cheap way to get reps, that's another story. Just my two cents (1.65 Canadian).

C

[Stephane]

Amen and Amen!

Bravo, well said and I concur......no beat-downs needed

Of course, and no surprise here, same guys again, all over again

While I'm a newb, I realized early that I wanted to be a supporter. But, I can't agree with Carlsbadrolex on the shutting down of all unpaid members. Unfortunately, that is simply the way things are in this world. Limitations on what you can do as an unpaid member, on the other hand, seems reasonable. Sometimes it takes a little time for people to understand what a great place this is, so why cut them off? Those that sit around and just use the forum for an easy and cheap way to get reps, that's another story. Just my two cents (1.65 Canadian).

C

Admin, if we contribute to seochamps, does that money make its way to you? Please advise.

We are all Noobs forever. Noob is a ridiculous term applied to future less Noobs by recent Noobs that are becoming less Noobs themselves...

It doesn't really matter what level of knowlegde one has and in which brand by the way.

We all know some guys here with a true knowledge about one brand and they wouldn't try to pass for an expert in another brand.

But we also know some who "know everything about anything" unfortunately.

As you said, it's the world, it's human kind...give or s u c k seems to be the options.

[yellomen]

I'm sorry to hear yet another payment account got frozen. As admin you have a great team that does lots of work for you, T, but the headaches of the finances to keep the servers and bandwidth up and running all the time seems your main job.

So first of all, thanx for all the trouble you go through

Well of course i'm gonna donate for this magnificent place... a few $$ which may be a drop of water on a hot plate, but a lot of drops will help. Personally i'm against a mandatory payment or cancelling the non-payers, but i think you will always have some free riders who need to be informed once in a while.

But for the members who really see this as their community to meet eachother, talk about a common passion and share knowledge... i can't imagine any of the active members not wanting to chip in and keep this forum running

[Admin]

Guys, I really do not want this to be a thread for bashing non-paying members or making members feel bad for not supporting this place. All the facts are right there in the first post, so people can make up their own minds, based on their own situation and economy. Hell, maybe people even needs to be pushed into donating, but I guess that would have to be my job? But I have to admin that I really wonder what it would take to get enough supporting members? $1 a month memberships or is it not about the price, but more about the principle or simply the fact that members can not afford to support this place? Another reason is of course the multiple forums that are out there who all require some sort of support and you just can support them all. Maybe another reason?

[alligoat]

Count me in.

[Admin]

Let me just throw this out in to the discussion: Should we start compiling a list of 300+ members who are willing to donate to the forum on a monthly basis ($5 a month supporter memberships)? That way, we would have everything covered each month. If we get more supporters than that, I could get myself a couple of beers

[cdv]

Let me just throw this out in to the discussion: Should we start compiling a list of 300+ members who are willing to donate to the forum on a monthly basis ($5 a month supporter memberships)? That way, we would have everything covered each month. If we get more supporters than that, I could get myself a couple of beers

Sounds reasonable to me. If we participate, Can we be called a Super Supporter or Super-Duper Supporter?

[professor_yaffle1]

It's sad to see Admin having to post this question again, (seems to be every few months?), but as ever, I'm happy to chip in, and don't consider it to be a drain on my personal finances.........rep watches are, but that's my own choice to take those gambles.

The point has already been made by others, but it takes enormous commitment to set up and run a forum such as this, and I for one am extremely grateful that Admin did, and continues to do so.... :clap:

I don't often contribute to this wonderful community, but I really enjoy the time that I spend here, and value the huge resource of information that is collectively held, and contributed to, by all members, so I can appreciate that there are some ethical issues to resolve before a solution is found.

As another member so astutely observed, it's the cost of a cup of coffee, (and in my local Starbucks, a small cup at that (London prices..)), that is being suggested as a subscription price-point, and surely if you've got enough disposable income to buy 2-3 reps a year, then you can definitely afford a cup of coffee once a month.

Prof

[andreww]

T, is there a way to make contributions via PP on a non scheduled basis? I could probably help out, but just cant do the monthly thing for various reasons. There are times when funds are available however, and I'd be happy to chip in. PM me with details.

[KB]

Guys the key to this whole problem is that someone dobbed into the Admin's CC issuer that the account was supporting a replica site, quite simply we have been attacked just as we have been on all the Paypal issues and the most likely senario is that we have been attacked from within and not without, if this was the result of some kind of formal action then the other boards would also be having to deal with it too.

But no someone wants us in particular out of action.

There is only one way to deal with a situation like this and that is for all members (supporters and general members) to join forces and stick it up whoever is doing this!

Lets get this 300 reaccuring membership thing going, we are a community, a great community as we showed so recently with the POTR auctions, we are proud.............we are RWG!

Ken

[jeff g]

Yea, well what i say is.... PAY TO PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Support your habit.

[subzero1]

Donation sent. Love this place.

[rodwc]

Let me just throw this out in to the discussion: Should we start compiling a list of 300+ members who are willing to donate to the forum on a monthly basis ($5 a month supporter memberships)? That way, we would have everything covered each month. If we get more supporters than that, I could get myself a couple of beers

The way I read this is............it`s going to cost me $60 per year.

Is this the total or is there another 30 euros per year which "supporters " are allready paying ?

Whichever way I`m in ,.................can I please have 007 membership number ?

This way is ALL VERY SIMPLE, think about it and lets get this ball rolling.

There HAS to be a way such as this so that EVERYTHING is taken care of each month AUTOMATICALLY.

[freddy333]

Although I still try to help out, I have to say that, in general, I do not like recurring or automatic billing schemes, no matter who runs them or how benevolent their purposes may be. And I frequently avoid purchases or memberships to organizations that rely on them. I am sure others share my feelings, which may account for the low Supporter numbers. Remove the auto-billing (or make it an easily disabled & easily located user option) & I bet donations & memberships will increase.

[bubu]

WE all start out as noobies and then the addiction begins. Give away free membership for 90 days and then give the option of becoming a supporter. NO SUPPORT NO ACCESS TO RWG. This way everyone has an opportunity to "try us out" and decide what best suits their needs. And RWG does not limit its membership and has paying supporters. Have sent my donation.

[KB]

Just one point here.

What Freddy says is indeed correct as i have seen others state they did not like this re-accuring accounts, however we need to be aware that our Admin will have to manually upgrade all supporters on our site and I am sure none of us can expect him to do this 300 times a Month.

Better idea's are always welcome.

Ken

[freddy333]

What Freddy says is indeed correct as i have seen others state they did not like this re-accuring accounts, however we need to be aware that our Admin will have to manually upgrade all supporters on our site and I am sure none of us can expect him to do this 300 times a Month.

Better idea's are always welcome.

I agree, but there must be a script or applet that can automate that process. In any case, even if it has to be done manually -- & I say this with all due respect -- that is what Moderators are for. No? At least that has been my experience after having run and/or moderated a number of forums as far back as 1989.

[KB]

Um Freddy of course all this kind of stuff can be automated but only on the site you are on, there is no way to link the two sites.

Also moderators do not have access to Admin controls so that only leaves our Admin (who is busy with his business) or a Co-Admin and only Double T is always here and he is supposed to be doing all the Admin work until he is free to return.

Ken